What are your ideas to balance small scale vs zerg play? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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What are your ideas to balance small scale vs zerg play?

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  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:
    Ive always wondered how the meta would change if the target cap of offensive skills was removed. In theory, organized small groups would be very powerful, being able to take down a zerg of any size with stealth & coordinated bombs. However for keep sieges and defenses zergs would still be necessary to carry enough supply for siege/repairs. For open field fights i would guess that 10-15 man parties would probably be the optimal size, and there would be several small squads roaming around instead of one big zerg.

    Another to consider here is how much skill lag is accounted for by having the game have to apply those caps when calculating whether damage was applied or if the cap was reached. Would also be curious if that cap was adjustable if a test week was setup for players to try.

    We were told there were “technical limitations” with regard to player generated AoEs. It would contribute to lag bc the servers have to process each action in real time. More AoEs = More lag.

    This would also create a meta where everyone must roll with AoE builds, because to combat AoEs you’ll need even more AoEs. We don’t need even more AoE wars, bc there are enough as is. Ben P even stated that passives can’t be worked on bc there were “too many AoEs being flung around”.

    Thanks! I remember them stating something about it but I couldn't remember which way produced more system impact. On that I retract that previous statement since we need less skill latency versus more.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Joey.2769Joey.2769 Member ✭✭

    The first month the game had higher hit count aoes both offensive and defensive. Then they scaled back the offensive ones and later the defensive ones. The game originally was designed for massive nukes by small groups.

  • @Joey.2769 said:
    The first month the game had higher hit count aoes both offensive and defensive. Then they scaled back the offensive ones and later the defensive ones. The game originally was designed for massive nukes by small groups.

    Ah those were the days... I remember healing the whole zerg with Vigorous Shouts...

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:
    Ive always wondered how the meta would change if the target cap of offensive skills was removed. In theory, organized small groups would be very powerful, being able to take down a zerg of any size with stealth & coordinated bombs. However for keep sieges and defenses zergs would still be necessary to carry enough supply for siege/repairs. For open field fights i would guess that 10-15 man parties would probably be the optimal size, and there would be several small squads roaming around instead of one big zerg.

    Another to consider here is how much skill lag is accounted for by having the game have to apply those caps when calculating whether damage was applied or if the cap was reached. Would also be curious if that cap was adjustable if a test week was setup for players to try.

    We were told there were “technical limitations” with regard to player generated AoEs. It would contribute to lag bc the servers have to process each action in real time. More AoEs = More lag.

    This would also create a meta where everyone must roll with AoE builds, because to combat AoEs you’ll need even more AoEs. We don’t need even more AoE wars, bc there are enough as is. Ben P even stated that passives can’t be worked on bc there were “too many AoEs being flung around”.

    Usually aoes get reduced in quantity and 2 or 3 skills could have its aoe increased.

  • Xenash.1245Xenash.1245 Member ✭✭✭

    In my personal opinion I don't think you can incentivize small scale play in contrast to zergs as long as the warclaw exists, it gives the generally large and disjointed zergs too much mobility to move about the map at a steady pace without having anyone lag behind.

    Smaller grouper can in turn of course use them as well, but the benefit they reciev in contrast to the zerg in much less overall.

    It's also just a random thought and probably a stupid idea, but you could possibly restrict the ranged/aoe potential on the walls of towers and the like. While I don't really like the idea of that I think it could possibly incentivize more siege vs siege gameplay at the very least when it comes to capturing objectives and cut back a bit on zergs just steam rolling through everything. Though overall I'm not sure if it would really do much at all even if I'm not quite sure.

    Also if you don't mind me commenting about player skill level, I'd say it's about the same as it was in the past. It's just that in contrast to the past compared to now there's not as many options for effective build diversity or at the very least anything you could pick for meaningful build diversity. There's always been a problem in my opinion with the general community making overarching wide assumptions about gear/runes/sigils/etc. that need to be picked while at the same time never really experimenting with new build ideas. I'm sure there's people around here that remember the not so little amount of people near the games start that shouted from the rooftops about how mesmers were apparently terrible in wvw.

  • What if we turned EoTM into a holiday champ farm map as well as a GvG focused map with no mounts but we get pips like the other cool kids' maps?

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm not really sure what op wants. There is already a 5th map for small scale, noone plays it though.
    Do you want to flip keeps with a group of 5? Thats just not good design.
    Anyway I dont really have problems with small scale in wvw. Actually I find more action solo or in a small group than in a large zerg because there the fights are often one sided and not so interesting. Epic fights are rare while with small groups or solo theres plenty imo.

  • Random idea (off the whim thought):

    Make players impassable, or just really hard to pass through (they cannot occupy the same space for long). A big change, since it would force people to actually pay attention to the formation instead of forming a ball. Scouting would also become easier.

    Smaller groups would have more flexibility when it comes to moving around compared to larger groups, especially if it’s an uncoordinated group.

    Coordination would now play a much larger role than it would ever had before.

    Very unlikely to be implemented, for there are very likely going to be flaws that are too glaring to ignore.