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What would it take to remove DuoQ vs SoloQ from ranked?


Xentera.4560

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@Ysmir.4986 said:

@Xentera.4560 said:Ranked is unenjoyable, and almost unplayable the way it is. Having 2 players with the same tag using VoiP gives an unfair advantage against any random PUG. Fixing it should not be that hard tbh.And yet it still happens way too frequently...My question: what needs to happen before this matter is given the priority it deserves?

Yes, a game system in a MMORPG that pushes people to socialize and play together to improve their chances of victory is bad for the game mode.

Wait.

Oh yes, playing together only counts if you have an unfair advantage to win. God forbid if you play together against another party who are playing together as well.

Both of these things are fine. I don't see your point besides:
  • Team A has a DuoQ, not me,
  • Team A wins, hence because of DuoQ,
  • DuoQ is hence unfair to me.

Which is a line of reasoning problematic on multiple levels, especially considering the fact that everyone has the possibility of finding a buddy and playing with him. And it all sounds like entitled whining, if I'm being perfectly honest with you.

Imagine if you apply this stuff to PvE. A group of players going around, clearing content together, progressing quickly and having fun. And then you are there in a corner, having trouble clearing one veteran, shouting to the skies that the world is unfair. So you hop on the forums and start asking for an exp penalty for people grouped up in open world PvE. Because it's unfair.

And by the way, just for the record. I'm guessing DuoQ'ing posts are done here mostly by folk between s2 and g3. I can't imagine DuoQ'ing at this level would make any significant impact, because if I've learned anything watching National Geographic, it's that 2 headless chicks are hardly worth more than 1.

The funny part is you insisting that having DuoQ in one team not the other is fair matchmaking.

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@Xentera.4560 said:

@Xentera.4560 said:Ranked is unenjoyable, and almost unplayable the way it is. Having 2 players with the same tag using VoiP gives an unfair advantage against any random PUG. Fixing it should not be that hard tbh.And yet it still happens way too frequently...My question: what needs to happen before this matter is given the priority it deserves?

Yes, a game system in a MMORPG that pushes people to socialize and play together to improve their chances of victory is bad for the game mode.

Wait.

Oh yes, playing together only counts if you have an unfair advantage to win. God forbid if you play together against another party who are playing together as well.

Both of these things are fine. I don't see your point besides:
  • Team A has a DuoQ, not me,
  • Team A wins, hence because of DuoQ,
  • DuoQ is hence unfair to me.

Which is a line of reasoning problematic on multiple levels, especially considering the fact that everyone has the possibility of finding a buddy and playing with him. And it all sounds like entitled whining, if I'm being perfectly honest with you.

Imagine if you apply this stuff to PvE. A group of players going around, clearing content together, progressing quickly and having fun. And then you are there in a corner, having trouble clearing one veteran, shouting to the skies that the world is unfair. So you hop on the forums and start asking for an exp penalty for people grouped up in open world PvE. Because it's unfair.

And by the way, just for the record. I'm guessing DuoQ'ing posts are done here mostly by folk between s2 and g3. I can't imagine DuoQ'ing at this level would make any significant impact, because if I've learned anything watching National Geographic, it's that 2 headless chicks are hardly worth more than 1.

The funny part is you insisting that having DuoQ in one team not the other is fair matchmaking.

You are missing the important underlying message here of "get good instead of crying on the forums about your imaginary problems"

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:They should remove pugs from ranked and have it be team only.

Let pugs and 1-5 for unranked.

Forming or joining a team should be a requirement for ranked pvp.

Finding and needing a group is required throughout much of the game especially harder content.

The mistake with pvp was solo casual catering.

The same top dogs have been at the top throughout the ages, teams and duos are not holding you back.

Yes I agree.

Remove SoloQ entirely. Doesn't matter at this point. Ranked was clearly made for very select specific people to enjoy, so just let them own ranked and have their own mode anyway.

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@"Ysmir.4986" said:

You are missing the important underlying message here of "get good instead of crying on the forums about your imaginary problems"

Clearly I’m the one who needs to “get good” that’s why I keep insisting that we should keep what is clearly an unfair advantage by any measure in one of the few competitive modes in the game.I guess you can’t win in ranked without duoQ... the sad state of pvp these days...

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@Bazsi.2734 said:

@"Alatar.7364" said:
"unfair advantage"
?! You must be s****ing me. The fact that Teamque was removed from this teambased mode is an unfair advantage for the randoms and causals who enforced this nonsense on a team based environment and now you wanna even further increase your advantage by removing Duo-Q?I say it one more time
"You are at an advantage ever since Team-Q was removed, so either you realize Coquest is purely team based mode or you should not PvP at all no matter how entitled you feel to twisting a purpose of a team-gamemode to your selfish solo ideals"

Objectively the truth though, it's unfair by design. But it's only a problem for those who still take the ladder seriously, with the illusion that those titles and bagdes still carry some prestige. Still it's funny how you're trying to "no u" the whole argument, too bad it doesn't work that way. Or maybe it does...

You are at an advantage ever since Team-Q was removedCould you elaborate on how this could possibly make sense? Make me see reason!

Because if Team Que was not removed then the "I WANNA SOLO IN THIS TEAM BASED MODE WITHOUT DISADVANTAGE OF NOT HAVING A TEAM" people would not even get a chance at winning matches, which is simply correct way for things to be if you join a mode for teams as a solo player, you are knowingly and willingly putting yourself at disadvantage so theres no right for such people to complain and in case you don't (or can't) get a Team then that's literally too bad, you can't cry your way in to something where are not capable of belonging in to. That's like if people irl wanted to play football but without the need to build a team so the existing teams would be cancelled and everyone would be forced in to a random environment where their skill doesn't matter as opposed to Team environment where you train to make your combined skill worth. Hence ever since the removal of TeamQ solos are at an advantage because they get to win many more matches than they ever would vs rightful teams and former Teams get to lose more matches then they would in their rightful gamemode.By the way Team Q was never voted to be removed, Anet only created a Poll for a trial season of Duo or Solo.I said it before, Solo players need to stop further enforcing removal fo teamplay from team game mode and instead should try and get Solo Q only.

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@Xentera.4560 said:

@"Ysmir.4986" said:

You are missing the important underlying message here of "get good instead of crying on the forums about your imaginary problems"

Clearly I’m the one who needs to “get good” that’s why I keep insisting that we should keep what is clearly an unfair advantage by any measure in one of the few competitive modes in the game.I guess you can’t win in ranked without duoQ... the sad state of pvp these days...

I'm literally "wat" at your statements

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Removing the ability to play with your friends in an mmo is and will always be an incredibly stupid idea. Everyone crying for ranked to be solo queue only, while at the same time complaining about win-trading, bots, afkers, generally bad teammates, and rage quitters. Picking your own team to queue with solves every one of those problems, plain and simple. We already have a LFG tool, we use it all the time to organize raids, fractals, ATs, meta events, and just any random thing you need a group for. Yet for some reason the solo queue PvP community thinks it would be impossible to get a group to PvP with.

Sure, the next argument is that we don't have the population to support full 5 man queues, except for the fact that we already play in 5 man teams with low queue times with no issues, just letting Anet pick the teams instead of us. Sure, an argument could be made that Anet splits players up into two balanced teams according to their rank, and players picking their own team would bypass that. This would indeed create an issue where late at night if only 5 or so plat players are on, they could just farm noobs all night. However, solo queue is not the solution to this. If you lack the population for a 5v5 game mode, then you need a smaller game mode such as 1v1, 2v2, or 3v3.

Many people play mmo games to play with their friends online. Friends / Guildies are great for bringing players into game modes they normally would not have touched while playing alone. Forcing this solo / duo queue crap on us is only hurting the game. The only people that benefit from a solo queue, are the people that are a detriment to their team in some form or another and would not be welcomed on a normal team.

Also, there are other ways to balance a match out aside from matching the average ratings of the team. For instance, if one team's average rating heavily outweighs another team's average rating and they wind up in a match together, you could simply handicap the team with the higher rating. Point is, there are better ways to handle the population issue. Solo queue is a breeding ground for trolls, bots, and cheaters, and is only hurting the game.

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@Ysmir.4986 said:

@Xentera.4560 said:Ranked is unenjoyable, and almost unplayable the way it is. Having 2 players with the same tag using VoiP gives an unfair advantage against any random PUG. Fixing it should not be that hard tbh.And yet it still happens way too frequently...My question: what needs to happen before this matter is given the priority it deserves?

Yes, a game system in a MMORPG that pushes people to socialize and play together to improve their chances of victory is bad for the game mode.

Wait.

Oh yes, playing together only counts if you have an unfair advantage to win. God forbid if you play together against another party who are playing together as well.

Both of these things are fine. I don't see your point besides:
  • Team A has a DuoQ, not me,
  • Team A wins, hence because of DuoQ,
  • DuoQ is hence unfair to me.

Which is a line of reasoning problematic on multiple levels, especially considering the fact that everyone has the possibility of finding a buddy and playing with him. And it all sounds like entitled whining, if I'm being perfectly honest with you.

Imagine if you apply this stuff to PvE. A group of players going around, clearing content together, progressing quickly and having fun. And then you are there in a corner, having trouble clearing one veteran, shouting to the skies that the world is unfair. So you hop on the forums and start asking for an exp penalty for people grouped up in open world PvE. Because it's unfair.

And by the way, just for the record. I'm guessing DuoQ'ing posts are done here mostly by folk between s2 and g3. I can't imagine DuoQ'ing at this level would make any significant impact, because if I've learned anything watching National Geographic, it's that 2 headless chicks are hardly worth more than 1.

The funny part is you insisting that having DuoQ in one team not the other is fair matchmaking.

You are missing the important underlying message here of "get good instead of crying on the forums about your imaginary problems"Dont remember anyone getting top places being solo'q unless it was savage wintrading.But sure "git gud" would help /s
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@Odik.4587 said:

@Xentera.4560 said:Ranked is unenjoyable, and almost unplayable the way it is. Having 2 players with the same tag using VoiP gives an unfair advantage against any random PUG. Fixing it should not be that hard tbh.And yet it still happens way too frequently...My question: what needs to happen before this matter is given the priority it deserves?

Yes, a game system in a MMORPG that pushes people to socialize and play together to improve their chances of victory is bad for the game mode.

Wait.

Oh yes, playing together only counts if you have an unfair advantage to win. God forbid if you play together against another party who are playing together as well.

Both of these things are fine. I don't see your point besides:
  • Team A has a DuoQ, not me,
  • Team A wins, hence because of DuoQ,
  • DuoQ is hence unfair to me.

Which is a line of reasoning problematic on multiple levels, especially considering the fact that everyone has the possibility of finding a buddy and playing with him. And it all sounds like entitled whining, if I'm being perfectly honest with you.

Imagine if you apply this stuff to PvE. A group of players going around, clearing content together, progressing quickly and having fun. And then you are there in a corner, having trouble clearing one veteran, shouting to the skies that the world is unfair. So you hop on the forums and start asking for an exp penalty for people grouped up in open world PvE. Because it's unfair.

And by the way, just for the record. I'm guessing DuoQ'ing posts are done here mostly by folk between s2 and g3. I can't imagine DuoQ'ing at this level would make any significant impact, because if I've learned anything watching National Geographic, it's that 2 headless chicks are hardly worth more than 1.

The funny part is you insisting that having DuoQ in one team not the other is fair matchmaking.

You are missing the important underlying message here of "get good instead of crying on the forums about your imaginary problems"Dont remember anyone getting top places being solo'q unless it was savage wintrading.But sure "git gud" would help /s

So by your underlying logic, DuoQ is preventing all of the players here from wood tier to get to top 10 ? Interesting.

There are a lot of players that only do solo q that get to to 250. There are a lot of players who get top 100 that do solo q mainly too. The number of people that full on tryhard on vocal with DuoQ can be counted on fingers. And they don't all get top 50 or even lower than that.

But sure, that's the only reason people ever get anywhere on ladder in this game. That and wintrading. In fact, 99% of players in top 250 are either wintrading, duoQ try hard with gold players in the dead of the night or are just playing broken spammy builds. And you are better than all of them.

Clap clap clap

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@Ysmir.4986 said:

@Xentera.4560 said:Ranked is unenjoyable, and almost unplayable the way it is. Having 2 players with the same tag using VoiP gives an unfair advantage against any random PUG. Fixing it should not be that hard tbh.And yet it still happens way too frequently...My question: what needs to happen before this matter is given the priority it deserves?

Yes, a game system in a MMORPG that pushes people to socialize and play together to improve their chances of victory is bad for the game mode.

Wait.

Oh yes, playing together only counts if you have an unfair advantage to win. God forbid if you play together against another party who are playing together as well.

Both of these things are fine. I don't see your point besides:
  • Team A has a DuoQ, not me,
  • Team A wins, hence because of DuoQ,
  • DuoQ is hence unfair to me.

Which is a line of reasoning problematic on multiple levels, especially considering the fact that everyone has the possibility of finding a buddy and playing with him. And it all sounds like entitled whining, if I'm being perfectly honest with you.

Imagine if you apply this stuff to PvE. A group of players going around, clearing content together, progressing quickly and having fun. And then you are there in a corner, having trouble clearing one veteran, shouting to the skies that the world is unfair. So you hop on the forums and start asking for an exp penalty for people grouped up in open world PvE. Because it's unfair.

And by the way, just for the record. I'm guessing DuoQ'ing posts are done here mostly by folk between s2 and g3. I can't imagine DuoQ'ing at this level would make any significant impact, because if I've learned anything watching National Geographic, it's that 2 headless chicks are hardly worth more than 1.

The funny part is you insisting that having DuoQ in one team not the other is fair matchmaking.

You are missing the important underlying message here of "get good instead of crying on the forums about your imaginary problems"Dont remember anyone getting top places being solo'q unless it was savage wintrading.But sure "git gud" would help /s

So by your underlying logic, DuoQ is preventing all of the players here from wood tier to get to top 10 ? Interesting.So by your underlying logic, wood tier is everything below top10-25? Interesting. Thats where duoq is a must and huge advantage over any solo q player and denying that is beyond stupid.I dont speak about top100-250 because even monkaS with a bit of "skill", lets say, can get it (Sad that you dont get it. ClapClapClap)
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@Odik.4587 said:

@Xentera.4560 said:Ranked is unenjoyable, and almost unplayable the way it is. Having 2 players with the same tag using VoiP gives an unfair advantage against any random PUG. Fixing it should not be that hard tbh.And yet it still happens way too frequently...My question: what needs to happen before this matter is given the priority it deserves?

Yes, a game system in a MMORPG that pushes people to socialize and play together to improve their chances of victory is bad for the game mode.

Wait.

Oh yes, playing together only counts if you have an unfair advantage to win. God forbid if you play together against another party who are playing together as well.

Both of these things are fine. I don't see your point besides:
  • Team A has a DuoQ, not me,
  • Team A wins, hence because of DuoQ,
  • DuoQ is hence unfair to me.

Which is a line of reasoning problematic on multiple levels, especially considering the fact that everyone has the possibility of finding a buddy and playing with him. And it all sounds like entitled whining, if I'm being perfectly honest with you.

Imagine if you apply this stuff to PvE. A group of players going around, clearing content together, progressing quickly and having fun. And then you are there in a corner, having trouble clearing one veteran, shouting to the skies that the world is unfair. So you hop on the forums and start asking for an exp penalty for people grouped up in open world PvE. Because it's unfair.

And by the way, just for the record. I'm guessing DuoQ'ing posts are done here mostly by folk between s2 and g3. I can't imagine DuoQ'ing at this level would make any significant impact, because if I've learned anything watching National Geographic, it's that 2 headless chicks are hardly worth more than 1.

The funny part is you insisting that having DuoQ in one team not the other is fair matchmaking.

You are missing the important underlying message here of "get good instead of crying on the forums about your imaginary problems"Dont remember anyone getting top places being solo'q unless it was savage wintrading.But sure "git gud" would help /s

So by your underlying logic, DuoQ is preventing all of the players here from wood tier to get to top 10 ? Interesting.So by your underlying logic, wood tier is everything below top10-25? Interesting. Thats where duoq is a must and huge advantage over any solo q player and denying that is beyond stupid.I dont speak about top100-250 because even monkaS with a bit of "skill", lets say, can get it (Sad that you dont get it. ClapClapClap)

No, wood tier is anything between s1 and g3. And wood tier is not that much about the placement, it's more about the mentality. It's this fine crop of players who would find any reason why people are performing better than them other than "maybe he's / she's better than me". It's basically 80-90% of forum goers in the pvp section.

I can't be clearer than that to you, I'm sorry.

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@Ysmir.4986 said:

@Xentera.4560 said:Ranked is unenjoyable, and almost unplayable the way it is. Having 2 players with the same tag using VoiP gives an unfair advantage against any random PUG. Fixing it should not be that hard tbh.And yet it still happens way too frequently...My question: what needs to happen before this matter is given the priority it deserves?

Yes, a game system in a MMORPG that pushes people to socialize and play together to improve their chances of victory is bad for the game mode.

Wait.

Oh yes, playing together only counts if you have an unfair advantage to win. God forbid if you play together against another party who are playing together as well.

Both of these things are fine. I don't see your point besides:
  • Team A has a DuoQ, not me,
  • Team A wins, hence because of DuoQ,
  • DuoQ is hence unfair to me.

Which is a line of reasoning problematic on multiple levels, especially considering the fact that everyone has the possibility of finding a buddy and playing with him. And it all sounds like entitled whining, if I'm being perfectly honest with you.

Imagine if you apply this stuff to PvE. A group of players going around, clearing content together, progressing quickly and having fun. And then you are there in a corner, having trouble clearing one veteran, shouting to the skies that the world is unfair. So you hop on the forums and start asking for an exp penalty for people grouped up in open world PvE. Because it's unfair.

And by the way, just for the record. I'm guessing DuoQ'ing posts are done here mostly by folk between s2 and g3. I can't imagine DuoQ'ing at this level would make any significant impact, because if I've learned anything watching National Geographic, it's that 2 headless chicks are hardly worth more than 1.

The funny part is you insisting that having DuoQ in one team not the other is fair matchmaking.

You are missing the important underlying message here of "get good instead of crying on the forums about your imaginary problems"Dont remember anyone getting top places being solo'q unless it was savage wintrading.But sure "git gud" would help /s

So by your underlying logic, DuoQ is preventing all of the players here from wood tier to get to top 10 ? Interesting.So by your underlying logic, wood tier is everything below top10-25? Interesting. Thats where duoq is a must and huge advantage over any solo q player and denying that is beyond stupid.I dont speak about top100-250 because even monkaS with a bit of "skill", lets say, can get it (Sad that you dont get it. ClapClapClap)

No, wood tier is anything between s1 and g3. And wood tier is not that much about the placement, it's more about the mentality. It's this fine crop of players who would find any reason why people are performing better than them other than "maybe he's / she's better than me". It's basically 80-90% of forum goers in the pvp section.

I can't be clearer than that to you, I'm sorry.Sure,if they cant climb from that then its for sure because lack of "skill" and lack of understanding how to play etc. But would you deny that DUOQ is an andvantage?Ok, lets omit top places, any game with "equally" skilled players but one team would have 1-2 duo's in voice against full solo, they are equal because MM'er split them evenly by their rating? Or first team,obviously, have an advantage because they have a better communiaction/make important calls/ask for help/give information (
assuming,they can make use of it
)? Or you want to tell me communication is not important at all? (p.s in other games (ofc not in every) there is an option to use in game voice)
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I don't know how many of people commenting here and wanting TeamQ, are actually old enough to remember how much the old forum was flooded with requests from players to remove TeamQ as they (soloQ players) were getting demolished. That is how we got to the point of the vote for SoloQ, and complaints stopped.

Please stop requesting for TeamQ, as this would bring again many players complaining on forums about loosing.

Please stop requesting for TeamQ vs TeamQ only, as this would increase waiting times to 30 (even 50) minutes in queue.

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When your only argument is: “duoQ against soloq is fine, you just need to get good”..

To sum up what the naysayers’ logic is:

1) I duoQ with a friend2) When i duoQ I tend to win more3) Removing duoQ will make it harder for me to win4) Therefore duoQ is fine, not an unfair advantage, leave it the way it is, no teamQ vs teamQ, by removing duoQ against soloQ you are preventing friends from playing together, and ofc... “git gud”

I guess that’s what we call an “alternative reality”.

factsmatter

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@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:Separate solo and group queues. Group queue would work the same way as unranked currently does, allowing any combination of groups and singles. Solo queue would be singles only. Separate leaderboards for each. Everyone's happy.

Yes. Great idea. But it was tried in the past, before 2016 vote. It got to the point where teams were waiting between 30 to 50 minutes in queue during the day. And because in late night hours teams were almost none, people were teaming to farm ranking by manipulating matches (by the only available teams).

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@Alin.2468 said:

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:Separate solo and group queues. Group queue would work the same way as unranked currently does, allowing any combination of groups and singles. Solo queue would be singles only. Separate leaderboards for each. Everyone's happy.

Yes. Great idea. But it was tried in the past, before 2016 vote. It got to the point where teams were waiting between 30 to 50 minutes in queue during the day. And because in late night hours teams were almost none, people were teaming to farm ranking by manipulating matches (by the only available teams).

Those are definitely problems. I wonder if solo queue and a separate smaller scale team queue (say, 3 v 3) would be viable.

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@Alin.2468 said:

Yes. Great idea. But it was tried in the past, before 2016 vote. It got to the point where teams were waiting between 30 to 50 minutes in queue during the day. And because in late night hours teams were almost none, people were teaming to farm ranking by manipulating matches (by the only available teams).

Clearly the vast majority of players who queue for ranked do that solo. Putting the vast majority at a disadvantage to the benefit of a small minority is never a solution. If somebody wants to duo/teamQ to farm rank/improve ratings, it is only logical that person will have to wait longer for a match.

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@"Crab Fear.1624" said:They should remove pugs from ranked and have it be team only.

Let pugs and 1-5 for unranked.

Forming or joining a team should be a requirement for ranked pvp.

Finding and needing a group is required throughout much of the game especially harder content.

The mistake with pvp was solo casual catering.

The same top dogs have been at the top throughout the ages, teams and duos are not holding you back.

Are you unable to compete in ATs? A team comp deserves a more competitive environment. Look harder and I'm sure you'll find it eventually.

Even if team queue was added back in, it's a rather dumb idea to remove solo queue.What is "pug" in a PvP game? Do you even know what it stands for? You sound like a lost zergling from the dead mists (aka WvW).

Do you have any sense of the current population and how we got here? A team queue only requirement will leave the total playerbase of this game at an unplayable level. Good luck with over 1hr queues.

But I'm sure you'll be flying off like other fairweather players who supported duo queue earlier. They're nowhere to be seen now. They said "we want to play with our friends". They and their friends are mostly gone for good now.

Duo queue is not holding anyone back yet duo queue are capable of maintaining a 10:1 win loss ratio through a season? Duo queue is spoiling games both ways. Duos are either great or horrible. Rarely I've seen a close game with only one duo in it. Matchmaking is not capable of handling the imbalance.

Ranked is now nothing more than a rewarding unranked mode. Honestly, that's perfectly OK. ANET got us here as they chose to keep duo queue to let friends enjoy together. The casual attitude of many solo queuers is expected and should be acceptable.

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