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Core engineer; My experience and thoughts so far


Zexanima.7851

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  • 2 weeks later...

I love the core engineer as well. It was my first char/class when I started at the end of the open beta before release. Played it until end 2013 - then a loooon break until I returned 2019 June to the game. Most of my PvP matches were with engineer and I'm kinda a noob when it comes to PvE.

Still playing core game without expansions. (I'll probably get the Ultimate edition for 80 € soon and buying the deluxe upgrades for the core game and HoT with the discounted gems that comes with it but I need time to do PvE and story ... lots of stuff to catch up after such a long break.)

Never got used to the pistols even though they were considered superior tot he rifle especially in PvP. I would have loved to see a sniper elite spec. Though something similar to that exists for the thief now. And the ranger has one of the highest ranges as well (I might use him as 2nd main ... though for more melee since I like the sword and the movement skills ... a bit like thief but more fun).

Still I can't stop using the rifle. Atm I managed in PvP from 928 rating only (silver 1, after 10 matches where I lost 7 I got placed there) to get up to gold 1 (121x someething) after about 100 matches played. Win rate a bit highter than 50 percent.

The funny thing is: Never liked turrets and I always kept using me elixir (too noobish to time the AED) and the supply crate in PvE. For the PvP I tried it different now. Without knowing I ended up with something similar to that one: https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Core_Grenadier

Well ... at least with the elite elixir which I never bothered to use. Using rifle tough ... and toolkit and heal elixir + quickness elixir (nice in Temple map for communing with buffs). Traits for faster toolkit skills, faster alchemy and faster toolbelt. (Making the moa skill usable often.) Toolkit for more blocking (skill 4). Also streamlined kits.

Found it to be somewhat fun. I know in higher rankings it is harder to survive because other builds would be better for 1 vs 1 and in an outnumbered situation it often means getting pwned fast. But depending on the combo if I am with 1 other person in 2 vs 2 or so ... can bring nice additions. Sometimes people still let them be affected by Moa (or they are just out of dodges and other skills). Also the rifle 4 gives good knockback (even though it has self knockback with it). Net show and the throw wrench a bit for trying to slow down players running away.

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@"Dirame.8521" said:Core Engie with FT/EG stalemating a Weaver. We can do it if we try! Almost got downed several times but the overall effect was he never wanted to fight me again after that hehehe. This doesn't mean Engie doesn't need fixing. It just means we've got some tools to even the playing field.https://www.twitch.tv/videos/540209927

Core engie: twice the work for half the gain. Smh...

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@Dirame.8521 said:Core Engie with FT/EG stalemating a Weaver. We can do it if we try! Almost got downed several times but the overall effect was he never wanted to fight me again after that hehehe. This doesn't mean Engie doesn't need fixing. It just means we've got some tools to even the playing field.

If you are wondering why you had a hard time damaging them, it was a water weaver. Its only purpose to waste time and sustain outnumbered fights. You would be able to deal more damage to a fire weaver... on the other hand, you would be dead.

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I hate Bomb, Mortar and Grenade kits.

All the explosive kits are fire and forget 2 3 4 5 and then swapping back to yur main weapon or whipping out Toolkit to block.

Bombkit - literally 4 bombs on cooldown, and a basic bomb

Mortar kit - same as Bomb

Grenade kit - same as Bomb

And all of these are so wonky to land.

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@Yasai.3549 said:I hate Bomb, Mortar and Grenade kits.

All the explosive kits are fire and forget 2 3 4 5 and then swapping back to yur main weapon or whipping out Toolkit to block.

Bombkit - literally 4 bombs on cooldown, and a basic bomb

Mortar kit - same as Bomb

Grenade kit - same as Bomb

And all of these are so wonky to land.

I like Bomb and Mortar because they allow for combo fields. But grenade.... No skill involved, just throw and smile.

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@"Dirame.8521" said:Core Engie with FT/EG stalemating a Weaver. We can do it if we try! Almost got downed several times but the overall effect was he never wanted to fight me again after that hehehe. This doesn't mean Engie doesn't need fixing. It just means we've got some tools to even the playing field.https://www.twitch.tv/videos/540209927Notice how fast his health drops when you get a condi burst in? That indicate he's not running the high hp cleanse. If you had been running moa that might have been a clean kill rather than a stalemate (well, assuming you hit). Supply drop was totally ineffective.

Weavers can be really nasty though, there is a particular kind of duelist weaver in WvW thats damn near unkillable 1v1 when played well. Luckily most either run too zerky so a well placed burst can kill them or too much support so that they have problems killing you before friendlies arrive.

I recorded this a while ago, a 1v2 fight against weavers. So many failed elixirs haha but fortunetly you dont have to stand still on a stupid point like in sPvP.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Dirame.8521" said:Core Engie with FT/EG stalemating a Weaver. We can do it if we try! Almost got downed several times but the overall effect was he never wanted to fight me again after that hehehe. This doesn't mean Engie doesn't need fixing. It just means we've got some tools to even the playing field.
Notice how fast his health drops when you get a condi burst in? That indicate he's not running the high hp cleanse. If you had been running moa that might have been a clean kill rather than a stalemate (well, assuming you hit). Supply drop was totally ineffective.

Yea, I know. I should have run it but then I wouldn’t have the good sustain that I did have.

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I have a core rifle power build that I use to roam in WvW to moderate effect. It is perfectly capable of killing many things given proper skill and patience, but is absolutely an uphill battle against many things as well. With many hours of experience using this build I've concluded it is incapable of winning against the following things assuming both players are of even skill: Guardians in general, primarily Dragonhunters, Sword/Sword + Staff standard power Herald, full condition tank Revenant/Herald, any variant of Boonbeast, Pistol/Shield Prot Holosmith, condition tank Mirage. This is mostly due to projectile reflect/destruct, difficulty maintaining a target, unblockable effects, extreme durability/sustain or overwhelming condition pressure. The build is heavily reliant on a "burst" with a few high damaging skills while spending the rest of it's time kiting. Anything that I cannot maintain distance from or can negate ( especially passively ) my burst will eventually win.

Though many of those are common roaming builds, it can still succeed against pretty well anything else. I use Elixir X which allows me to Moa people I'm having the most trouble with and have an absolute heap of health ( 24k ) to soak damage. A low cooldown block ( Gear Shield ) and Invulnerablity with Elixir S also help a great deal with survival.

I do agree that core Engineer is extremely weak, and having played a variety of builds in an attempt to find one that could be "competitive" ( capable of fighting meta builds with high success ), I also feel this is more due power creep across the board than it is Engineer being a weak spec. I feel perfectly capable of fighting many things and have plenty of tools to survive but not enough tools to kill. Everything has such high baseline durability that pestering people before I need to retreat is all I can do.

Condition builds are a little more dangerous but in the same line of power, it's gimmicky and has a lot of uphill fights. I genuinely found more success with my power build just because with condition it's so easy to cleanse and I'm forced to choose between mobility or durability because I can't fit both in to the build.

I think core Engineer is actually okay and only needs a few adjustments here or there. Some traits and utilities are definitely lacking but in general, it's more about how powerful everything else is and less about how weak Engineer is.

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@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I have a core rifle power build that I use to roam in WvW to moderate effect. It is perfectly capable of killing many things given proper skill and patience, but is absolutely an uphill battle against many things as well. With many hours of experience using this build I've concluded it is incapable of winning against the following things assuming both players are of even skill: Guardians in general, primarily Dragonhunters, Sword/Sword + Staff standard power Herald, full condition tank Revenant/Herald, any variant of Boonbeast, Pistol/Shield Prot Holosmith, condition tank Mirage. This is mostly due to projectile reflect/destruct, difficulty maintaining a target, unblockable effects, extreme durability/sustain or overwhelming condition pressure. The build is heavily reliant on a "burst" with a few high damaging skills while spending the rest of it's time kiting. Anything that I cannot maintain distance from or can negate ( especially passively ) my burst will eventually win.

Though many of those are common roaming builds, it can still succeed against pretty well anything else. I use Elixir X which allows me to Moa people I'm having the most trouble with and have an absolute heap of health ( 24k ) to soak damage. A low cooldown block ( Gear Shield ) and Invulnerablity with Elixir S also help a great deal with survival.

I do agree that core Engineer is extremely weak, and having played a variety of builds in an attempt to find one that could be "competitive" ( capable of fighting meta builds with high success ), I also feel this is more due power creep across the board than it is Engineer being a weak spec. I feel perfectly capable of fighting many things and have plenty of tools to survive but not enough tools to kill. Everything has such high baseline durability that pestering people before I need to retreat is all I can do.

Condition builds are a little more dangerous but in the same line of power, it's gimmicky and has a lot of uphill fights. I genuinely found more success with my power build just because with condition it's so easy to cleanse and I'm forced to choose between mobility or durability because I can't fit both in to the build.

I think core Engineer is actually okay and only needs a few adjustments here or there. Some traits and utilities are definitely lacking but in general, it's more about how powerful everything else is and less about how weak Engineer is.

This is a good way to put it .I've went back to trying to play it and it's not really that bad on it's own but when you stack it up against all the other professions its not even close to on par.

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@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:With many hours of experience using this build I've concluded it is incapable of winning against the following things assuming both players are of even skill: Guardians in general, primarily Dragonhunters, Sword/Sword + Staff standard power Herald, full condition tank Revenant/Herald, any variant of Boonbeast, Pistol/Shield Prot Holosmith, condition tank Mirage.Well having problems beating some of the best roamer builds isnt that surprising. Though I must say, I havent seen a decent holo in ages - 90% vanished in the last round of nerfs. As a condi I have problems with pretty much the same builds, with the addition of the duelist weaver because that thing can be ridiculous and spellbreakers having stupid amounts of sustain.

But skill levels still vary alot within the similar builds, so if one can beat more than half I still count it as a sucess. Have to be a pretty bad day for worse to happen and many times when it do and I get a rematch, I sometimes win - or at the very least perform vastly better. The initial engagement is always critical, I have a tendancy to use elixir X and moa way defensivly and loose where I could have won.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:With many hours of experience using this build I've concluded it is incapable of winning against the following things assuming both players are of even skill: Guardians in general, primarily Dragonhunters, Sword/Sword + Staff standard power Herald, full condition tank Revenant/Herald, any variant of Boonbeast, Pistol/Shield Prot Holosmith, condition tank Mirage.Well having problems beating some of the best roamer builds isnt
that
surprising. Though I must say, I havent seen a decent holo in ages - 90% vanished in the last round of nerfs. As a condi I have problems with pretty much the same builds, with the addition of the duelist weaver because that thing can be ridiculous and spellbreakers having stupid amounts of sustain.

But skill levels still vary alot within the similar builds, so if one can beat more than half I still count it as a sucess. Have to be a pretty bad day for worse to happen and many times when it do and I get a rematch, I sometimes win - or at the very least perform vastly better. The initial engagement is always critical, I have a tendancy to use elixir X and moa way defensivly and loose where I could have won.

I tend to have unrealistic goals/standards for myself, a win is a win but is not always success. That's why there are a lot of builds I consider to be "hard counters" for my core power Engi. For sure it isn't a surprise that many of them are meta builds but, I still give them a wide berth because I know to succeed I will have to heavily out play them. To win they just have to be bad.

Somewhat unrelated, I was recently playing a lot of condition Engi trying to figure out a build I liked. I don't personally enjoy condition builds on Engi very much but I did craft a couple that were quite strong. Just because I know you enjoy it I thought I'd share those builds for you in case you have the resources ( armor, currency, etc ) to put the builds together and feel like giving them a go.100% Burn Duration Holosmith100% Burn Duration coreThe Holo build is a lot stronger and has a disgusting burst with Photon Blitz + Incendiary Ammo. Also I used mostly Dire instead of Trailblazer because with Incendiary Powder you only need 16% Condition Duration to reach max Burn duration and any additional Condition Duration doesn't increase other conditions very much.

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@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:With many hours of experience using this build I've concluded it is incapable of winning against the following things assuming both players are of even skill: Guardians in general, primarily Dragonhunters, Sword/Sword + Staff standard power Herald, full condition tank Revenant/Herald, any variant of Boonbeast, Pistol/Shield Prot Holosmith, condition tank Mirage.Well having problems beating some of the best roamer builds isnt
that
surprising. Though I must say, I havent seen a decent holo in ages - 90% vanished in the last round of nerfs. As a condi I have problems with pretty much the same builds, with the addition of the duelist weaver because that thing can be ridiculous and spellbreakers having stupid amounts of sustain.

But skill levels still vary alot within the similar builds, so if one can beat more than half I still count it as a sucess. Have to be a pretty bad day for worse to happen and many times when it do and I get a rematch, I sometimes win - or at the very least perform vastly better. The initial engagement is always critical, I have a tendancy to use elixir X and moa way defensivly and loose where I could have won.

I tend to have unrealistic goals/standards for myself, a win is a win but is not always success. That's why there are a lot of builds I consider to be "hard counters" for my core power Engi. For sure it isn't a surprise that many of them are meta builds but, I still give them a wide berth because I know to succeed I will have to heavily out play them. To win they just have to be bad.

Somewhat unrelated, I was recently playing a lot of condition Engi trying to figure out a build I liked. I don't personally enjoy condition builds on Engi very much but I did craft a couple that were quite strong. Just because I know you enjoy it I thought I'd share those builds for you in case you have the resources ( armor, currency, etc ) to put the builds together and feel like giving them a go.
The Holo build is a lot stronger and has a disgusting burst with Photon Blitz + Incendiary Ammo. Also I used mostly Dire instead of Trailblazer because with Incendiary Powder you only need 16% Condition Duration to reach max Burn duration and any additional Condition Duration doesn't increase other conditions very much.

I cannot get core power to work for the life of me in sPvP. So many blocks/evades/blinds to contend with. If I run rifle I feel super vulnerable without shield too. Easily gunned down by rangers and lit into by revs. Mind giving some tips on power core?

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@Zexanima.7851 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:With many hours of experience using this build I've concluded it is incapable of winning against the following things assuming both players are of even skill: Guardians in general, primarily Dragonhunters, Sword/Sword + Staff standard power Herald, full condition tank Revenant/Herald, any variant of Boonbeast, Pistol/Shield Prot Holosmith, condition tank Mirage.Well having problems beating some of the best roamer builds isnt
that
surprising. Though I must say, I havent seen a decent holo in ages - 90% vanished in the last round of nerfs. As a condi I have problems with pretty much the same builds, with the addition of the duelist weaver because that thing can be ridiculous and spellbreakers having stupid amounts of sustain.

But skill levels still vary alot within the similar builds, so if one can beat more than half I still count it as a sucess. Have to be a pretty bad day for worse to happen and many times when it do and I get a rematch, I sometimes win - or at the very least perform vastly better. The initial engagement is always critical, I have a tendancy to use elixir X and moa way defensivly and loose where I could have won.

I tend to have unrealistic goals/standards for myself, a win is a win but is not always success. That's why there are a lot of builds I consider to be "hard counters" for my core power Engi. For sure it isn't a surprise that many of them are meta builds but, I still give them a wide berth because I know to succeed I will have to heavily out play them. To win they just have to be bad.

Somewhat unrelated, I was recently playing a lot of condition Engi trying to figure out a build I liked. I don't personally enjoy condition builds on Engi very much but I did craft a couple that were quite strong. Just because I know you enjoy it I thought I'd share those builds for you in case you have the resources ( armor, currency, etc ) to put the builds together and feel like giving them a go.
The Holo build is a lot stronger and has a disgusting burst with Photon Blitz + Incendiary Ammo. Also I used mostly Dire instead of Trailblazer because with Incendiary Powder you only need 16% Condition Duration to reach max Burn duration and any additional Condition Duration doesn't increase other conditions very much.

I cannot get core power to work for the life of me in sPvP. So many blocks/evades/blinds to contend with. If I run rifle I feel super vulnerable without shield too. Easily gunned down by rangers and lit into by revs. Mind giving some tips on power core?

This is the build I use on core.

It is very much about the "waiting game" against better opponents. As I'd said in my initial comment, some things are pretty well impossible to beat. Others, it's just about waiting for the right time to Overcharged Shot or Magnet -> burst. I spend most of my time hard kiting, spamming auto attacks and proc'ing passive skills if they have any. Toss Elixir U is very good for staying ahead of people as is Toss Elixir S for repositioning. I also use Jump Shot more defensively early on in a fight to maintain distance and Pry Bar as a "back up!" threatening skill when someone closes the gap on me because it tends to hit quite hard. I slap them with it and return to kiting and they rethink whether they want to keep pushing in to me.

Many fights I heavily rely on landing Toss Elixir X because I cannot afford to trade hits or spend time kiting. This skill saves me the most against Warriors and Thieves because I can completely shut them down and burst them 100 - 0 with my damaging skills. It also helps a great deal that it can negate things like Necro Shroud or Warrior's Rampage.

If you'd like, I can do a little bit of recording this weekend to share a couple clips of how I use it. I obviously can't guarantee they'll be great fights, but it might help to give you a better idea of how to play it.

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@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:With many hours of experience using this build I've concluded it is incapable of winning against the following things assuming both players are of even skill: Guardians in general, primarily Dragonhunters, Sword/Sword + Staff standard power Herald, full condition tank Revenant/Herald, any variant of Boonbeast, Pistol/Shield Prot Holosmith, condition tank Mirage.Well having problems beating some of the best roamer builds isnt
that
surprising. Though I must say, I havent seen a decent holo in ages - 90% vanished in the last round of nerfs. As a condi I have problems with pretty much the same builds, with the addition of the duelist weaver because that thing can be ridiculous and spellbreakers having stupid amounts of sustain.

But skill levels still vary alot within the similar builds, so if one can beat more than half I still count it as a sucess. Have to be a pretty bad day for worse to happen and many times when it do and I get a rematch, I sometimes win - or at the very least perform vastly better. The initial engagement is always critical, I have a tendancy to use elixir X and moa way defensivly and loose where I could have won.

I tend to have unrealistic goals/standards for myself, a win is a win but is not always success. That's why there are a lot of builds I consider to be "hard counters" for my core power Engi. For sure it isn't a surprise that many of them are meta builds but, I still give them a wide berth because I know to succeed I will have to heavily out play them. To win they just have to be bad.

Somewhat unrelated, I was recently playing a lot of condition Engi trying to figure out a build I liked. I don't personally enjoy condition builds on Engi very much but I did craft a couple that were quite strong. Just because I know you enjoy it I thought I'd share those builds for you in case you have the resources ( armor, currency, etc ) to put the builds together and feel like giving them a go.
The Holo build is a lot stronger and has a disgusting burst with Photon Blitz + Incendiary Ammo. Also I used mostly Dire instead of Trailblazer because with Incendiary Powder you only need 16% Condition Duration to reach max Burn duration and any additional Condition Duration doesn't increase other conditions very much.

I cannot get core power to work for the life of me in sPvP. So many blocks/evades/blinds to contend with. If I run rifle I feel super vulnerable without shield too. Easily gunned down by rangers and lit into by revs. Mind giving some tips on power core?

It is very much about the "waiting game" against better opponents. As I'd said in my initial comment, some things are pretty well impossible to beat. Others, it's just about waiting for the right time to Overcharged Shot or Magnet -> burst. I spend most of my time hard kiting, spamming auto attacks and proc'ing passive skills if they have any. Toss Elixir U is very good for staying ahead of people as is Toss Elixir S for repositioning. I also use Jump Shot more defensively early on in a fight to maintain distance and Pry Bar as a "back up!" threatening skill when someone closes the gap on me because it tends to hit quite hard. I slap them with it and return to kiting and they rethink whether they want to keep pushing in to me.

Many fights I heavily rely on landing Toss Elixir X because I cannot afford to trade hits or spend time kiting. This skill saves me the most against Warriors and Thieves because I can completely shut them down and burst them 100 - 0 with my damaging skills. It also helps a great deal that it can negate things like Necro Shroud or Warrior's Rampage.

If you'd like, I can do a little bit of recording this weekend to share a couple clips of how I use it. I obviously can't guarantee they'll be great fights, but it might help to give you a better idea of how to play it.

Sure! I'd love to watch them. Never enough core engi content out there.

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Every kit is viable in open world. Some are going to be suboptimal for that skill slot depending on what you're trying to accomplish, but there is no single "bad" kit.

Base Flamethrower does decent damage, gives you access to a blast finisher and a fire field. It also has some CC potential and a strong CD in incendiary ammo.Traited, it pulses stab and might, making it a very nice kit to camp in.

Base Grenades don't deal the most damage in the world, but they can be casted behind you. This gives them very good kiting potential. If you want to kill mobs without taking a tick of damage, nades are great for that.

Bombs are straight up amazing. You can spam Bomb 1 while moving around the map to wrack up kills on mobs with zero effort. You have a fire field and a smoke field. Good AoE damage, and some CC

Traited, Bombs can pull mobs which is very nice for setting up big bursts, apply vuln and cripple, and grant fury. Post update, bomb skills will also grant stacking ferocity.

Elixir gun doesn't do much damage unless you're playing a condi build. What it does offer is cleanse, a stun break, regen, a pulsing heal and a light field, a blast finisher, mobility and some condi potential. It's your go to kit for survivability.

Med kit is underrated. The only reason why it's not used more is because healing turret is so strong, but the bandage heal has a very nice base value, and the cooldown is very short. You can cleanse, blast water fields, and generate boonz. You can also use med kit skill 5 to blast any other fields you might have.

Traited med kit heals for more, has an even shorter CD on bandage (14 seconds), and can apply boonz via cleanses.

Tool Kit is... there. It's the only kit that you could argue is "bad", but in open world, the pull, block, and wrench toss are pretty nice.

As for clunk... I don't feel it. To me, kits feel like Attunement swaps without the cooldown. This actually makes them feel more fluid to play with by comparison. They do take some getting used to, but with practice, quick kit swapping will start to feel natural.

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@Zexanima.7851 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:If you'd like, I can do a little bit of recording this weekend to share a couple clips of how I use it. I obviously can't guarantee they'll be great fights, but it might help to give you a better idea of how to play it.

Sure! I'd love to watch them. Never enough core engi content out there.

Here are a few clips with core power Engi in WvW. Same build as mentioned in initial comment -> Vitality Tools.

A few things I want to note first: Low quality fights - obviously these were not against skilled players. This build is impossible to make in PvP. I will be removing these from my channel after you've seen them because they're not very good, but I hope you get the idea of what playing it is like from these examples. I'm still gathering clips right now so maybe I can put together a longer video in the future.

1 v 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlWaI5_ayoc

1 v 2 / I didn't start recording until half way throughhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUY6scC1dEg

1 v 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOlMVZIWZtg

Trolling 1 v 2/3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NDbOitM_NM

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@"Kuma.1503" said:Base Grenades don't deal the most damage in the world, but they can be casted behind you. This gives them very good kiting potential. If you want to kill mobs without taking a tick of damage, nades are great for that.

Bombs are straight up amazing. You can spam Bomb 1 while moving around the map to wrack up kills on mobs with zero effort. You have a fire field and a smoke field. Good AoE damage, and some CC

You listed some useful applications for those kits, I give you that, but the thing is... I wouldn't keep them in my build just for those. It's more like I could equip bombs and nades for a minute once a day for some particular occasion then swap back to whatever utilities I had. And this is kinda tedious. Though I'm sure engineers are not alone in that: every profession has a few skills like "I need it once a year, but when I need it I need it". Maybe the 10-slots skill tab wasn't a great idea from the beginning, dunno.

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