Core engineer; My experience and thoughts so far — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Core engineer; My experience and thoughts so far

Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited December 19, 2019 in Engineer

I decided to create a new engineer last night in my crusade to play core professions. Engineer was my first profession that I made back before HoT and at the time I loved it so I decided to try it again from the start rather than use my existing level 80. I'm really don't like holosmith as it doesn't really feel like what the engineer profession was suppose to be. Scrapper is okay but I prefer rifle/pistol over hammer. That leaves core engineer. I could use tomes of knowledge but I've decided to level the old fashion way with map completion and enjoy experience.

I got to level 20 and completed most of Plains of Ashford and had a blast (pun intended). It was pretty easy but a bit challenging at some hero points and it actually forced me to think a bit and not just spam buttons. But....a lot of what core engineer has is just useless. Not suboptimal, but really completely useless. I figured a good place to start would be kits and have been obtaining them first. Even after I had I found myself in rifle a majority of the time. Flamethrower has been what I've had the most success on but the others are not really worth the utility slot. It might be because they need to be traited but I'm not optimistic about that. Grenades do next to no damage and are way too slow so I don't use them. Elixir gun I can see use for in PvP as support maybe but I'm not really sure to its purpose in PvE. I haven't used bomb kit yet so can't say anything about it. Toolkit isn't too bad but core engineer really isn't equip to fight in melee range, a 2 second block isn't enough to remedy that.

I also tired sPvP for a couple hours as I'm primarily a pvp player. I tired piecing together my own build based of certain traits/skills instead of digging up old builds and spent a couple hours at it. Most all of them failed terribly mostly due to lack of things like stability, passive invulns/stun breaks, cleanse, stuns, ect. I can get to an adequate amount of one of these things but then I would always be severely lacking in another. This is what made me realize how far behind core engi has fallen. It feels like all other professions can do what I might take 3 button presses and 1 1/2 second cast time in one button press on dodge in a 1/4 second. Core engi's skills are simple but many and that puts you at a disadvantage against other professions with so many effects pack into single skills with low cast times. I considered going out to grab dinner while I waited for some of my skills to land (rocket turret toolbelt skill anyone?). I finally decided to go with a static discharge turret build, zerker with scholar, and got okay results. 4 wins out of 6 games. If I didn't go full on damage rune/amulet my damage was laughable. I tried several times to make a condi build to no success. I realize though a lot of my builds failures were probably due to my lack of experience with the profession but the difficulty I had trying to work out a build speaks to how underpowered in relation to other professions it is. This is the build I've had moderate success on.

I'll update this post as I go but what I've gathered so far is about what I expected;

  • The fun is there, the power isn't
  • Kits are too clunky to use effectively in pvp. Only some are worth while in PvE. This is even open world where near everything should be viable but some of them are not even viable in this area of the game.
  • Turrets I took for the toolbelt skills for sttatic discharge. PvE and PvP the turrets themselves are non existent. Zero survivability, laughable damage. Necro, ranger, mesmer, renegade all have better "pet" skills in every way compared to turrets. I'm pretty sure dredge turrets are currently stronger than engi turrets.
  • Cast times on a lot of skills are too long. In comparison to something like a soulbeast, warrrior, rev, ect. which can combo many skills in quick succession I'm over here like "Wait a sec! I'm waiting for my cleanse to actually hit the ground..."

In PvE I'll probably start trying out elixirs and gadgets but in PvP I've tried many many different things and think I'll stick with my current build for now. Feel free to give me all the tips and advice you have! I need it. More updates soon for anyone who cares..

EDIT:
Some after thought suggestions

  • Give a slight increase to turret's damage/fire frequency but make them a LOT tankier when traited. If they are suppose to pulse boons when traited they needs to stay alive long enough to make them worth it. Probably need better boons too

Depression and anxiety are the worst...

Comments

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I realize though a lot of my builds failures were probably due to my lack of experience with the profession

    Well when you start with "I decided to create a new engineer last night"...

    Either way it's been dull in PvE since forever.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    I realize though a lot of my builds failures were probably due to my lack of experience with the profession

    Well when you start with "I decided to create a new engineer last night"...

    Either way it's been dull in PvE since forever.

    I'm aware and that's why I put that line in there. Still, I didn't really have much trouble throwing together builds on other core professions I was learning. Not optimal, but usable. On core engi I struggled to find something even useable. I don't find it dull in PvE, just falling behind other core professions in power.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2019

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    I decided to create a new engineer last night in my crusade to play core professions. Engineer was my first profession that I made back before HoT and at the time I loved it so I decided to try it again from the start rather than use my existing level 80. I'm really don't like holosmith as it doesn't really feel like what the engineer profession was suppose to be. Scrapper is okay but I prefer rifle/pistol over hammer. That leaves core engineer. I could use tomes of knowledge but I've decided to level the old fashion way with map completion and enjoy experience.

    I got to level 20 and completed most of Plains of Ashford and had a blast (pun intended). It was pretty easy but a bit challenging at some hero points and it actually forced me to think a bit and not just spam buttons. But....a lot of what core engineer has is just useless. Not suboptimal, but really completely useless. I figured a good place to start would be kits and have been obtaining them first. Even after I had I found myself in rifle a majority of the time. Flamethrower has been what I've had the most success on but the others are not really worth the utility slot. It might be because they need to be traited but I'm not optimistic about that. Grenades do next to no damage and are way too slow so I don't use them. Elixir gun I can see use for in PvP as support maybe but I'm not really sure to its purpose in PvE. I haven't used bomb kit yet so can't say anything about it. Toolkit isn't too bad but core engineer really isn't equip to fight in melee range, a 2 second block isn't enough to remedy that.

    I also tired sPvP for a couple hours as I'm primarily a pvp player. I tired piecing together my own build based of certain traits/skills instead of digging up old builds and spent a couple hours at it. Most all of them failed terribly mostly due to lack of things like stability, passive invulns/stun breaks, cleanse, stuns, ect. I can get to an adequate amount of one of these things but then I would always be severely lacking in another. This is what made me realize how far behind core engi has fallen. It feels like all other professions can do what I might take 3 button presses and 1 1/2 second cast time in one button press on dodge in a 1/4 second. Core engi's skills are simple but many and that puts you at a disadvantage against other professions with so many effects pack into single skills with low cast times. I considered going out to grab dinner while I waited for some of my skills to land (rocket turret toolbelt skill anyone?). I finally decided to go with a static discharge turret build, zerker with scholar, and got okay results. 4 wins out of 6 games. If I didn't go full on damage rune/amulet my damage was laughable. I tried several times to make a condi build to no success. I realize though a lot of my builds failures were probably due to my lack of experience with the profession but the difficulty I had trying to work out a build speaks to how underpowered in relation to other professions it is. This is the build I've had moderate success on.

    I'll update this post as I go but what I've gathered so far is about what I expected;

    • The fun is there, the power isn't
    • Kits are too clunky to use effectively in pvp. Only some are worth while in PvE. This is even open world where near everything should be viable but some of them are not even viable in this area of the game.
    • Turrets I took for the toolbelt skills for sttatic discharge. PvE and PvP the turrets themselves are non existent. Zero survivability, laughable damage. Necro, ranger, mesmer, renegade all have better "pet" skills in every way compared to turrets. I'm pretty sure dredge turrets are currently stronger than engi turrets.
    • Cast times on a lot of skills are too long. In comparison to something like a soulbeast, warrrior, rev, ect. which can combo many skills in quick succession I'm over here like "Wait a sec! I'm waiting for my cleanse to actually hit the ground..."

    In PvE I'll probably start trying out elixirs and gadgets but in PvP I've tried many many different things and think I'll stick with my current build for now. Feel free to give me all the tips and advice you have! I need it. More updates soon for anyone who cares..

    EDIT:
    Some after thought suggestions

    • Give a slight increase to turret's damage/fire frequency but make them a LOT tankier when traited. If they are suppose to pulse boons when traited they needs to stay alive long enough to make them worth it. Probably need better boons too

    In my humblest opinion, in a scenario where everything is nerfed accordingly (dat powercreep tho), core Engineer would be in a very suitable spot. it has great tradeoffs, which you've mentioned in your post (referencing where if you go for something, it does well, but lacks in other things). It's just that the other core professions have had buffs to their core trait lines that match this current bursty meta, and that's why they feel much better right now.
    There is an upcoming balance patch, and it's supposed to be really huge. Everything is getting the touch of either death or life, so I wouldn't yea or nay it yet. Once things are brought in line and the power creep is snuffed out, I'd recommend revisiting and see if your opinion changes.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    I decided to create a new engineer last night in my crusade to play core professions. Engineer was my first profession that I made back before HoT and at the time I loved it so I decided to try it again from the start rather than use my existing level 80. I'm really don't like holosmith as it doesn't really feel like what the engineer profession was suppose to be. Scrapper is okay but I prefer rifle/pistol over hammer. That leaves core engineer. I could use tomes of knowledge but I've decided to level the old fashion way with map completion and enjoy experience.

    I got to level 20 and completed most of Plains of Ashford and had a blast (pun intended). It was pretty easy but a bit challenging at some hero points and it actually forced me to think a bit and not just spam buttons. But....a lot of what core engineer has is just useless. Not suboptimal, but really completely useless. I figured a good place to start would be kits and have been obtaining them first. Even after I had I found myself in rifle a majority of the time. Flamethrower has been what I've had the most success on but the others are not really worth the utility slot. It might be because they need to be traited but I'm not optimistic about that. Grenades do next to no damage and are way too slow so I don't use them. Elixir gun I can see use for in PvP as support maybe but I'm not really sure to its purpose in PvE. I haven't used bomb kit yet so can't say anything about it. Toolkit isn't too bad but core engineer really isn't equip to fight in melee range, a 2 second block isn't enough to remedy that.

    I also tired sPvP for a couple hours as I'm primarily a pvp player. I tired piecing together my own build based of certain traits/skills instead of digging up old builds and spent a couple hours at it. Most all of them failed terribly mostly due to lack of things like stability, passive invulns/stun breaks, cleanse, stuns, ect. I can get to an adequate amount of one of these things but then I would always be severely lacking in another. This is what made me realize how far behind core engi has fallen. It feels like all other professions can do what I might take 3 button presses and 1 1/2 second cast time in one button press on dodge in a 1/4 second. Core engi's skills are simple but many and that puts you at a disadvantage against other professions with so many effects pack into single skills with low cast times. I considered going out to grab dinner while I waited for some of my skills to land (rocket turret toolbelt skill anyone?). I finally decided to go with a static discharge turret build, zerker with scholar, and got okay results. 4 wins out of 6 games. If I didn't go full on damage rune/amulet my damage was laughable. I tried several times to make a condi build to no success. I realize though a lot of my builds failures were probably due to my lack of experience with the profession but the difficulty I had trying to work out a build speaks to how underpowered in relation to other professions it is. This is the build I've had moderate success on.

    I'll update this post as I go but what I've gathered so far is about what I expected;

    • The fun is there, the power isn't
    • Kits are too clunky to use effectively in pvp. Only some are worth while in PvE. This is even open world where near everything should be viable but some of them are not even viable in this area of the game.
    • Turrets I took for the toolbelt skills for sttatic discharge. PvE and PvP the turrets themselves are non existent. Zero survivability, laughable damage. Necro, ranger, mesmer, renegade all have better "pet" skills in every way compared to turrets. I'm pretty sure dredge turrets are currently stronger than engi turrets.
    • Cast times on a lot of skills are too long. In comparison to something like a soulbeast, warrrior, rev, ect. which can combo many skills in quick succession I'm over here like "Wait a sec! I'm waiting for my cleanse to actually hit the ground..."

    In PvE I'll probably start trying out elixirs and gadgets but in PvP I've tried many many different things and think I'll stick with my current build for now. Feel free to give me all the tips and advice you have! I need it. More updates soon for anyone who cares..

    EDIT:
    Some after thought suggestions

    • Give a slight increase to turret's damage/fire frequency but make them a LOT tankier when traited. If they are suppose to pulse boons when traited they needs to stay alive long enough to make them worth it. Probably need better boons too

    In my humblest opinion, in a scenario where everything is nerfed accordingly (dat powercreep tho), core Engineer would be in a very suitable spot. it has great tradeoffs, which you've mentioned in your post (referencing where if you go for something, it does well, but lacks in other things). It's just that the other core professions have had buffs to their core trait lines that match this current bursty meta, and that's why they feel much better right now.
    There is an upcoming balance patch, and it's supposed to be really huge. Everything is getting the touch of either death or life, so I wouldn't yea or nay it yet. Once things are brought in line and the power creep is snuffed out, I'd recommend revisiting and see if your opinion changes.

    I agree! Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing it. It's just not in line with other core specs (most core specs are not in line with elites, but that's another topic...). I'm looking forward to these changes and hope everything in the game is brought down significantly and some core profession (specially engi) are given some love.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • MrForz.1953MrForz.1953 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2019

    Nothing we haven't talked about before. Core engi is a relic of the past, which is painful to look at because it's at a level everything else should be, including the other engi specs. Simply have to look at its condition damage. Excellent damage, horrible reapplication, inconsistent, part of a time when pressuring with mere bleeds was a thing, a very long time ago. Simplier to deal with in terms of balance than whatever we have today.

    Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Pirate - Jade Quarry

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2019

    Nothing surprising here. A lot of the things core engineer was sold on (IE turrets) were guttered, and kits have been left in the dust with e-specs. They're mainly only used for their most powerful skills -- have been for a while. They nerfed grenades and bomb kit a long time ago, which used to be staples of PvP and PvE, respectively. E-gun is primarily used for its stunbreak and heals/condi clears in PvP. Tool kit hasn't been relevant since pre-HoT. Flamethrower was only relevant in condi builds and certain hybrid builds. Gadgets were always more of a sideshow than a primary draw. They seemed like one-off ideas from the devs, still feel like that.

    You can really see a lot of the design of vanilla GW2 in engineer's kits. Almost every skill has one, maybe two functions. Very few have more than that. They all have lengthy casting times and obvious windups. This is why they're so irrelevant in most of PvP these days, the e-specs are spam-happy.

    Elixirs are one of the few groups of skills that ANet has consistently updated in engineer's core skills (except for Elixir R). They've been essential in most engineer PvP builds.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2019

    It's probably because of powercreep and the fact that core engi has always relied on kits for maximum effectiveness (similar to ele attunements). That's why there are fewer well played engineers compared to warriors, guardians, and necros for example.

    Most of the core engineer stuff is irelevant in small scale PvP due to projectile velocity (grenades), range (flamethrower with its rampup , toolkit, bomb kit) , or detonation time (grenades , bomb kit). Pistols are slow ramp condi ; rifle is generally slow firing and hasn't kept up with powercreep. Turrets were nerfed years ago , I remember one of my guild's leaders reached top of sPvP leaderboard when he was out of work playing turrets as a bunker.

    Arenanet has to contend with the fact that they can't always improve things that scrappers and holos can make use of as well (except the elite skills' f5).

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2019

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    I realize though a lot of my builds failures were probably due to my lack of experience with the profession

    Well when you start with "I decided to create a new engineer last night"...

    Either way it's been dull in PvE since forever.

    I'm aware and that's why I put that line in there. Still, I didn't really have much trouble throwing together builds on other core professions I was learning. Not optimal, but usable. On core engi I struggled to find something even useable. I don't find it dull in PvE, just falling behind other core professions in power.

    Was just saying, heh.

    I believe I have about 1800 hours on my engineer now, core and scrapper with a vast majority of those hours in WvW. I still make tons of errors in every fight regardless of winning or loosing. That's why I love playing it (despite scrapper nerfs, bleh). Because I can directly point out if I had done this or that it would have gone better. A failed moa, blowing my blowtorch too soon, blocking with the sheild at the wrong time, dodging too much, not using my god kitten F skills that I frequently forget about, not aggressive with elixir X enough on engagement, etc and so on. Maybe if I'll can get my kitten in gear and clip together my recordings I might upload a new compilation of core engie roaming, its starting to hog my drive sigh.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    I realize though a lot of my builds failures were probably due to my lack of experience with the profession

    Well when you start with "I decided to create a new engineer last night"...

    Either way it's been dull in PvE since forever.

    I'm aware and that's why I put that line in there. Still, I didn't really have much trouble throwing together builds on other core professions I was learning. Not optimal, but usable. On core engi I struggled to find something even useable. I don't find it dull in PvE, just falling behind other core professions in power.

    Was just saying, heh.

    I believe I have about 1800 hours on my engineer now, core and scrapper with a vast majority of those hours in WvW. I still make tons of errors in every fight regardless of winning or loosing. That's why I love playing it (despite scrapper nerfs, bleh). Because I can directly point out if I had done this or that it would have gone better. A failed moa, blowing my blowtorch too soon, blocking with the sheild at the wrong time, dodging too much, not using my god kitten F skills that I frequently forget about, not aggressive with elixir X enough on engagement, etc and so on. Maybe if I'll can get my kitten in gear and clip together my recordings I might upload a new compilation of core engie roaming, its starting to hog my drive sigh.

    Do it! I would love to watch it, specially from someone with that much experience. I've found a couple of vids on youtube but its a struggle to find core engi players to learn from

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yup, just back here to confirm what everyone already knows. Core engi is worthless is sPvP

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    Yup, just back here to confirm what everyone already knows. Core engi is worthless is sPvP

    In other news, the sky is blue.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • yeah its pretty sad. maybe 5 utility skills are useful in pvp, and arms + explosives are useless. whats even more sad or rather flat our depressing is that the majority of utility skills and some trait lines across all professions are useless. this has been my # 1 gripe with this game since day 1. its been getting better, slowly. so kitten slowly. we need more diversity like a desert needs water.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 22, 2019

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    I realize though a lot of my builds failures were probably due to my lack of experience with the profession

    Well when you start with "I decided to create a new engineer last night"...

    Either way it's been dull in PvE since forever.

    I'm aware and that's why I put that line in there. Still, I didn't really have much trouble throwing together builds on other core professions I was learning. Not optimal, but usable. On core engi I struggled to find something even useable. I don't find it dull in PvE, just falling behind other core professions in power.

    Was just saying, heh.

    I believe I have about 1800 hours on my engineer now, core and scrapper with a vast majority of those hours in WvW. I still make tons of errors in every fight regardless of winning or loosing. That's why I love playing it (despite scrapper nerfs, bleh). Because I can directly point out if I had done this or that it would have gone better. A failed moa, blowing my blowtorch too soon, blocking with the sheild at the wrong time, dodging too much, not using my god kitten F skills that I frequently forget about, not aggressive with elixir X enough on engagement, etc and so on. Maybe if I'll can get my kitten in gear and clip together my recordings I might upload a new compilation of core engie roaming, its starting to hog my drive sigh.

    Do it! I would love to watch it, specially from someone with that much experience. I've found a couple of vids on youtube but its a struggle to find core engi players to learn from

    Well I am never doing that again, I'll stick to small clips, lol. Large videos are a pain to edit and take ages to upload. Not really happy with the result either, I barely have the patience to watch myself playing and yell "toss your god kitten elixir c already" at the screen. Could have cut more out too, but I really just wanted to remove all the old junk. Anyway, here is some no frills, no lol-I-hit-for-15k-I'm-awesome roflstomps, just core spec WvW roaming (well, with trailblazers so mostly core).

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Rant incoming:
    I usually play core engi on core PvP, and I ofter encounter the same problem: core traits and skills are soo anti-synergestic. Like if you want to be power, you have to use a 'nade kit. If you use a 'nade kit, explosive is a must have... and boy oh boy, this traitline is a mess.

    Evasive Powder Keg makes sure that you can't dodge after tossing elixir S.
    Granadier is a must have if you run granades. And almost the only reason to run this line. With the recent changes, healing messes with your stealth. (I want to mention here, that you can't use rifle 5, as well as Rocket Boots while stealthed for the same reason. So your only chance after using Toss Elixir S, if an enemy is nearby, to run, and hope that they doesn't cleave you down.)
    Shaped Charge got nerfed not long ago, on an already underachieving traitline.
    Shrapnel is an another nice trait, which gives you oppurtinity to kite.

    Inventions is an another problematic line. It is just a second fiddler to Alchemy, if you want to go for one defensive line. I only see this an option, if you go heal (which is only viable in WvW), or want to go full bunker with Alcemy - Inventions.
    Experimental Turrets, together with the turrets in general is really bad.
    Bunker Down is pretty ... meh? The idea is interesting, and I like it. But every time I pick it, I don't even notice if it does anything, other than hearing the beeps, and seeing those medpacks lying around.
    Anticorrosion Plating is awful on core engi, and exceptional on holo. HLA makes sure of that, with its 12 procs of protection. The second best skill that comes close to this is Reconstruction Field. (and this is one of the main reasons I call core engi traits anti-synergestic)

    Alchemy on the other hand has a nice synergy with itself. Even if you don't run any elixirs, you can go for HGH, since the traitline has 3 elixirs built in. In my opinion, this line just leaves others in the dust.
    Hidden Flask is just too good to be an adept minor trait.
    Invigorating Speed is an another anti-synergestic trait. Core engi barely has any source of swiftness. (I often have to run movement speed runes, since I don't have place on my utility bar for Elixir B, Elixirgun 2 is unreliable, and combat only, Inventions is garbage. This leaves me only with: Tools - Streamlined Kits, or movement speed runes.) Unlike holo, which has Holo Leap, and Particle Accelerator, giving the user free perma vigor.
    Backpack Regenerator doesn't work with MDF, for some reason...
    Purity of Purpose is meta defning in WvW. This should be looked at, when condi application and cleanse is nerfed.

    Firearms is what it is. A nice passive damage boost. And Tools is there. I rarely run it, so I don't have a strong opinion on it.

    And for the skills, I only want to point out the most annoying inconsistency for me: granade attacks, even Granade Barrage can be blocked by one Aegis, or Blindness, but damages you three times from reta.

    Disclaimer: I run this build http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAQlZw+YXMNmKOSLuJNA-z5QfG9KByXB44B (Stolen from Chaithe. Please don't sue me.)

  • Dirame.8521Dirame.8521 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2020

    Having posted a video of me playing Core Engie recently, I felt the need to comment on this post.

    I find that they definitely need to change the explosives line to be more synergistic in a way that makes more builds viable. We as a group have suggested things like crazy for that line but I am sure at some point something will be done. Maybe before the world ends. Till then there are more important things in life than worrying about whether they fix this or not.

    Apart from that, the build I run currently was made with the intent to find something that could take direct hits and not just melt whilst also dishing out enough damage to make the target scared and it is the best build I have played in PvP apart from the meta because if played well it can 2v1 and can even win most 1v1s against the new specializations except Tempest and Mirage. That said you can stall against them for a while and possibly if you get better at the build you could even win some fights.

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAo6lJw6YesFWJWqPXrbA-zZwOjMlAJsAc2A

    That's one variant of the build using inventions. Another variant uses Alchemy to gain more might stacks and certain traits for survivability.
    So in essence, it is not all trash or useless, just some of it is.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    Having posted a video of me playing Core Engie recently, I felt the need to comment on this post.

    I find that they definitely need to change the explosives line to be more synergistic in a way that makes more builds viable. We as a group have suggested things like crazy for that line but I am sure at some point something will be done. Maybe before the world ends. Till then there are more important things in life than worrying about whether they fix this or not.

    Apart from that, the build I run currently was made with the intent to find something that could take direct hits and not just melt whilst also dishing out enough damage to make the target scared and it is the best build I have played in PvP apart from the meta because if played well it can 2v1 and can even win most 1v1s against the new specializations except Tempest and Mirage. That said you can stall against them for a while and possibly if you get better at the build you could even win some fights.

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAo6lJw6YesFWJWqPXrbA-zZwOjMlAJsAc2A

    That's one variant of the build using inventions. Another variant uses Alchemy to gain more might stacks and certain traits for survivability.
    So in essence, it is not all trash or useless, just some of it is.

    Well that wasnt a particularly good warrior... how can you tell? He's not regenerating more HP than you do damage because he popped his healing signet, lol.

    Still, there are some particular things that sometimes just makes it worth the hazzle regardless of winning or loosing.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Dirame.8521Dirame.8521 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2020

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    Having posted a video of me playing Core Engie recently, I felt the need to comment on this post.

    I find that they definitely need to change the explosives line to be more synergistic in a way that makes more builds viable. We as a group have suggested things like crazy for that line but I am sure at some point something will be done. Maybe before the world ends. Till then there are more important things in life than worrying about whether they fix this or not.

    Apart from that, the build I run currently was made with the intent to find something that could take direct hits and not just melt whilst also dishing out enough damage to make the target scared and it is the best build I have played in PvP apart from the meta because if played well it can 2v1 and can even win most 1v1s against the new specializations except Tempest and Mirage. That said you can stall against them for a while and possibly if you get better at the build you could even win some fights.

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAo6lJw6YesFWJWqPXrbA-zZwOjMlAJsAc2A

    That's one variant of the build using inventions. Another variant uses Alchemy to gain more might stacks and certain traits for survivability.
    So in essence, it is not all trash or useless, just some of it is.

    Well that wasnt a particularly good warrior... how can you tell? He's not regenerating more HP than you do damage because he popped his healing signet, lol.

    Still, there are some particular things that sometimes just makes it worth the hazzle regardless of winning or loosing.

    He probably didn't have any cooldowns because he just came from mid so he popped the one thing he could use to handle condi damage.

    I don't see that as him being bad seeing as he almost got me down. I also applied poison to him repeatedly so his healing will not have surpassed my damage unless he had more cleanses.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2020

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    He probably didn't have any cooldowns because he just came from mid so he popped the one thing he could use to handle condi damage.

    I don't see that as him being bad seeing as he almost got me down. I also applied poison to him repeatedly so his healing will not have surpassed my damage unless he had more cleanses.

    Well you never know what you meet in PvP. For fun, I decided to record one game, just a random match - zero warmup (and I am always absolutely terrible the first 30m I play), completely uncensored and a loss at that. Not really ashamed to show it, but there is one notable bad mistake in there (aside from pointless deaths and failure to decap), near the end... see if you can spot it lol. No spellbreakers either, that was sad. Now, look at it and wonder... is it possible to improve on this? Can anybody do this better?

    Well I certainly hope so. Because I'm not a higher end PvPer. I dont even have a PvP ranking. I dont even know if I'm middle tier - my last known ranking was years ago. Most of the things I do in the video I do out of WvW roamer habit. I'm not even used to that kind of gear (got to run alot glassier with sPvP stats). And if you dont believe me on that, look at it from this perspective taking into account my last 5 matches:

    Fun fact: the one saying GG at the end at least had a title where he finished 101st-250th in at least one PvP league, lol. I didnt notice that.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Dirame.8521Dirame.8521 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    He probably didn't have any cooldowns because he just came from mid so he popped the one thing he could use to handle condi damage.

    I don't see that as him being bad seeing as he almost got me down. I also applied poison to him repeatedly so his healing will not have surpassed my damage unless he had more cleanses.

    Well you never know what you meet in PvP. For fun, I decided to record one game, just a random match - zero warmup (and I am always absolutely terrible the first 30m I play), completely uncensored and a loss at that. Not really ashamed to show it, but there is one notable bad mistake in there (aside from pointless deaths and failure to decap), near the end... see if you can spot it lol. No spellbreakers either, that was sad. Now, look at it and wonder... is it possible to improve on this? Can anybody do this better?

    Well I certainly hope so. Because I'm not a higher end PvPer. I dont even have a PvP ranking. I dont even know if I'm middle tier - my last known ranking was years ago. Most of the things I do in the video I do out of WvW roamer habit. I'm not even used to that kind of gear (got to run alot glassier with sPvP stats). And if you dont believe me on that, look at it from this perspective taking into account my last 5 matches:

    Fun fact: the one saying GG at the end at least had a title where he finished 101st-250th in at least one PvP league, lol. I didnt notice that.

    You did good, man. I definitely can't IMPROVE on it but I can do it DIFFERENTLY. You ran around hilariously a few times but many a time there was someone there to give you support so it worked out. The other problem I really saw throughout the match was you using your toolbar elixir C when you could've used Toss Elixir C which would've saved you a powerful cooldown for cleansing at a much needed moment. I didn't really see much near the end.... what did I miss that you didn't do?

    After watching your game I guess I see the problem is that the Core Engie isn't like "Oh wow, I must have a Core engie in my team instead of a Holosmith because they are amazing at this thing! or that thing!". Core Engies don't have that and neither do a lot of Core classes tbh (except maybe Rev, War and Necro).

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    I didn't really see much near the end.... what did I miss that you didn't do?

    Heh, maybe for the best.

    But I pulled the holo into a contested cap with so little points left on the timer and almost equal score...

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • wasss.1208wasss.1208 Member ✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    is it possible to improve on this? Can anybody do this better?

    You can hide your magnet pull animation, if you only select a target in the last moment.

  • Dirame.8521Dirame.8521 Member ✭✭✭

    @wasss.1208 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    is it possible to improve on this? Can anybody do this better?

    You can hide your magnet pull animation, if you only select a target in the last moment.

    BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!! I LOVE IT!

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭

    One minor change I'd like for core engi which could help would be the ability to equip any utility skills in the elite slot.

    One massive problem with engineer as a class is that due to the lack of weapon swap, utility skills are at a premium. I just don't have room to run the kits I want and the other utilities. If I could give up my elite slot for an extra kit, or a utility elixir, I would gladly do it. It'd open up so many options for builds. IMO utilities are far more valuable than long cd skills like supply drop or elixir X.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2020

    @wasss.1208 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    is it possible to improve on this? Can anybody do this better?

    You can hide your magnet pull animation, if you only select a target in the last moment.

    As I said, I do it by habit from WvW - it's a miracle when the pull even works and isnt obstructed, evaded by passives or just... dont do anything when they are just running, lol. Or even better, when it pulls someone to a location behind you. The problem was pulling correctly.

    But anyway, I still dont see it as core being unable to perform. Even the OP states that the core engie is "so far behind"... yet he won 4 out of 6 matches. Are there stronger builds? For sure. But if you can make it work more than half the time against them when you outskill them... Well then it works about as good as anything. No one can win them all. I dont feel particularly weak when running around on core. I rarely meet anyone I cannot bring down below 50% hp and those do overwhelming win usually either totally outplay me (like say a thief just cycling evades for 30s while grinding you down and making you miss every single shot by sheer luck, when he literally die the next fight as he's hit once) or completely counterbuild me (condi immune combo elementalists, bunker boonbeasts, to name a couple). For them... well the point of an MMO is bring friends and it applies to sPvP as well as WvW. Tactics win where brute force builds dont.

    Pretty sure people any class and any build will say something similar.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I found Core engi much more effective when played for condi using a build like this.

  • Luthan.5236Luthan.5236 Member ✭✭✭

    I love the core engineer as well. It was my first char/class when I started at the end of the open beta before release. Played it until end 2013 - then a loooon break until I returned 2019 June to the game. Most of my PvP matches were with engineer and I'm kinda a noob when it comes to PvE.

    Still playing core game without expansions. (I'll probably get the Ultimate edition for 80 € soon and buying the deluxe upgrades for the core game and HoT with the discounted gems that comes with it but I need time to do PvE and story ... lots of stuff to catch up after such a long break.)

    Never got used to the pistols even though they were considered superior tot he rifle especially in PvP. I would have loved to see a sniper elite spec. Though something similar to that exists for the thief now. And the ranger has one of the highest ranges as well (I might use him as 2nd main ... though for more melee since I like the sword and the movement skills ... a bit like thief but more fun).

    Still I can't stop using the rifle. Atm I managed in PvP from 928 rating only (silver 1, after 10 matches where I lost 7 I got placed there) to get up to gold 1 (121x someething) after about 100 matches played. Win rate a bit highter than 50 percent.

    The funny thing is: Never liked turrets and I always kept using me elixir (too noobish to time the AED) and the supply crate in PvE. For the PvP I tried it different now. Without knowing I ended up with something similar to that one: https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Core_Grenadier

    Well ... at least with the elite elixir which I never bothered to use. Using rifle tough ... and toolkit and heal elixir + quickness elixir (nice in Temple map for communing with buffs). Traits for faster toolkit skills, faster alchemy and faster toolbelt. (Making the moa skill usable often.) Toolkit for more blocking (skill 4). Also streamlined kits.

    Found it to be somewhat fun. I know in higher rankings it is harder to survive because other builds would be better for 1 vs 1 and in an outnumbered situation it often means getting pwned fast. But depending on the combo if I am with 1 other person in 2 vs 2 or so ... can bring nice additions. Sometimes people still let them be affected by Moa (or they are just out of dodges and other skills). Also the rifle 4 gives good knockback (even though it has self knockback with it). Net show and the throw wrench a bit for trying to slow down players running away.

  • Dirame.8521Dirame.8521 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2020

    Core Engie with FT/EG stalemating a Weaver. We can do it if we try! Almost got downed several times but the overall effect was he never wanted to fight me again after that hehehe. This doesn't mean Engie doesn't need fixing. It just means we've got some tools to even the playing field.

  • Jaruselka.5943Jaruselka.5943 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2020

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    Core Engie with FT/EG stalemating a Weaver. We can do it if we try! Almost got downed several times but the overall effect was he never wanted to fight me again after that hehehe. This doesn't mean Engie doesn't need fixing. It just means we've got some tools to even the playing field.

    Core engie: twice the work for half the gain. Smh...

  • @Dirame.8521 said:
    Core Engie with FT/EG stalemating a Weaver. We can do it if we try! Almost got downed several times but the overall effect was he never wanted to fight me again after that hehehe. This doesn't mean Engie doesn't need fixing. It just means we've got some tools to even the playing field.

    If you are wondering why you had a hard time damaging them, it was a water weaver. Its only purpose to waste time and sustain outnumbered fights. You would be able to deal more damage to a fire weaver... on the other hand, you would be dead.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭

    I hate Bomb, Mortar and Grenade kits.

    All the explosive kits are fire and forget 2 3 4 5 and then swapping back to yur main weapon or whipping out Toolkit to block.

    Bombkit - literally 4 bombs on cooldown, and a basic bomb

    Mortar kit - same as Bomb

    Grenade kit - same as Bomb

    And all of these are so wonky to land.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Dirame.8521Dirame.8521 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    I hate Bomb, Mortar and Grenade kits.

    All the explosive kits are fire and forget 2 3 4 5 and then swapping back to yur main weapon or whipping out Toolkit to block.

    Bombkit - literally 4 bombs on cooldown, and a basic bomb

    Mortar kit - same as Bomb

    Grenade kit - same as Bomb

    And all of these are so wonky to land.

    I like Bomb and Mortar because they allow for combo fields. But grenade.... No skill involved, just throw and smile.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2020

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    Core Engie with FT/EG stalemating a Weaver. We can do it if we try! Almost got downed several times but the overall effect was he never wanted to fight me again after that hehehe. This doesn't mean Engie doesn't need fixing. It just means we've got some tools to even the playing field.

    Notice how fast his health drops when you get a condi burst in? That indicate he's not running the high hp cleanse. If you had been running moa that might have been a clean kill rather than a stalemate (well, assuming you hit). Supply drop was totally ineffective.

    Weavers can be really nasty though, there is a particular kind of duelist weaver in WvW thats kitten near unkillable 1v1 when played well. Luckily most either run too zerky so a well placed burst can kill them or too much support so that they have problems killing you before friendlies arrive.

    I recorded this a while ago, a 1v2 fight against weavers. So many failed elixirs haha but fortunetly you dont have to stand still on a stupid point like in sPvP.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Dirame.8521Dirame.8521 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    Core Engie with FT/EG stalemating a Weaver. We can do it if we try! Almost got downed several times but the overall effect was he never wanted to fight me again after that hehehe. This doesn't mean Engie doesn't need fixing. It just means we've got some tools to even the playing field.

    Notice how fast his health drops when you get a condi burst in? That indicate he's not running the high hp cleanse. If you had been running moa that might have been a clean kill rather than a stalemate (well, assuming you hit). Supply drop was totally ineffective.

    Yea, I know. I should have run it but then I wouldn’t have the good sustain that I did have.

  • SpellOfIniquity.1780SpellOfIniquity.1780 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2020

    I have a core rifle power build that I use to roam in WvW to moderate effect. It is perfectly capable of killing many things given proper skill and patience, but is absolutely an uphill battle against many things as well. With many hours of experience using this build I've concluded it is incapable of winning against the following things assuming both players are of even skill: Guardians in general, primarily Dragonhunters, Sword/Sword + Staff standard power Herald, full condition tank Revenant/Herald, any variant of Boonbeast, Pistol/Shield Prot Holosmith, condition tank Mirage. This is mostly due to projectile reflect/destruct, difficulty maintaining a target, unblockable effects, extreme durability/sustain or overwhelming condition pressure. The build is heavily reliant on a "burst" with a few high damaging skills while spending the rest of it's time kiting. Anything that I cannot maintain distance from or can negate ( especially passively ) my burst will eventually win.

    Though many of those are common roaming builds, it can still succeed against pretty well anything else. I use Elixir X which allows me to Moa people I'm having the most trouble with and have an absolute heap of health ( 24k ) to soak damage. A low cooldown block ( Gear Shield ) and Invulnerablity with Elixir S also help a great deal with survival.

    I do agree that core Engineer is extremely weak, and having played a variety of builds in an attempt to find one that could be "competitive" ( capable of fighting meta builds with high success ), I also feel this is more due power creep across the board than it is Engineer being a weak spec. I feel perfectly capable of fighting many things and have plenty of tools to survive but not enough tools to kill. Everything has such high baseline durability that pestering people before I need to retreat is all I can do.

    Condition builds are a little more dangerous but in the same line of power, it's gimmicky and has a lot of uphill fights. I genuinely found more success with my power build just because with condition it's so easy to cleanse and I'm forced to choose between mobility or durability because I can't fit both in to the build.

    I think core Engineer is actually okay and only needs a few adjustments here or there. Some traits and utilities are definitely lacking but in general, it's more about how powerful everything else is and less about how weak Engineer is.

    Witchery [YWY] | Maguuma/Anvil Rock | Diamond Legend
    Hate me if it makes you feel better ... ♫

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    I have a core rifle power build that I use to roam in WvW to moderate effect. It is perfectly capable of killing many things given proper skill and patience, but is absolutely an uphill battle against many things as well. With many hours of experience using this build I've concluded it is incapable of winning against the following things assuming both players are of even skill: Guardians in general, primarily Dragonhunters, Sword/Sword + Staff standard power Herald, full condition tank Revenant/Herald, any variant of Boonbeast, Pistol/Shield Prot Holosmith, condition tank Mirage. This is mostly due to projectile reflect/destruct, difficulty maintaining a target, unblockable effects, extreme durability/sustain or overwhelming condition pressure. The build is heavily reliant on a "burst" with a few high damaging skills while spending the rest of it's time kiting. Anything that I cannot maintain distance from or can negate ( especially passively ) my burst will eventually win.

    Though many of those are common roaming builds, it can still succeed against pretty well anything else. I use Elixir X which allows me to Moa people I'm having the most trouble with and have an absolute heap of health ( 24k ) to soak damage. A low cooldown block ( Gear Shield ) and Invulnerablity with Elixir S also help a great deal with survival.

    I do agree that core Engineer is extremely weak, and having played a variety of builds in an attempt to find one that could be "competitive" ( capable of fighting meta builds with high success ), I also feel this is more due power creep across the board than it is Engineer being a weak spec. I feel perfectly capable of fighting many things and have plenty of tools to survive but not enough tools to kill. Everything has such high baseline durability that pestering people before I need to retreat is all I can do.

    Condition builds are a little more dangerous but in the same line of power, it's gimmicky and has a lot of uphill fights. I genuinely found more success with my power build just because with condition it's so easy to cleanse and I'm forced to choose between mobility or durability because I can't fit both in to the build.

    I think core Engineer is actually okay and only needs a few adjustments here or there. Some traits and utilities are definitely lacking but in general, it's more about how powerful everything else is and less about how weak Engineer is.

    This is a good way to put it .I've went back to trying to play it and it's not really that bad on it's own but when you stack it up against all the other professions its not even close to on par.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • I want a Golemancer elite with golem pet spam.
    Thank you.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2020

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    With many hours of experience using this build I've concluded it is incapable of winning against the following things assuming both players are of even skill: Guardians in general, primarily Dragonhunters, Sword/Sword + Staff standard power Herald, full condition tank Revenant/Herald, any variant of Boonbeast, Pistol/Shield Prot Holosmith, condition tank Mirage.

    Well having problems beating some of the best roamer builds isnt that surprising. Though I must say, I havent seen a decent holo in ages - 90% vanished in the last round of nerfs. As a condi I have problems with pretty much the same builds, with the addition of the duelist weaver because that thing can be ridiculous and spellbreakers having stupid amounts of sustain.

    But skill levels still vary alot within the similar builds, so if one can beat more than half I still count it as a sucess. Have to be a pretty bad day for worse to happen and many times when it do and I get a rematch, I sometimes win - or at the very least perform vastly better. The initial engagement is always critical, I have a tendancy to use elixir X and moa way defensivly and loose where I could have won.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • SpellOfIniquity.1780SpellOfIniquity.1780 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2020

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    With many hours of experience using this build I've concluded it is incapable of winning against the following things assuming both players are of even skill: Guardians in general, primarily Dragonhunters, Sword/Sword + Staff standard power Herald, full condition tank Revenant/Herald, any variant of Boonbeast, Pistol/Shield Prot Holosmith, condition tank Mirage.

    Well having problems beating some of the best roamer builds isnt that surprising. Though I must say, I havent seen a decent holo in ages - 90% vanished in the last round of nerfs. As a condi I have problems with pretty much the same builds, with the addition of the duelist weaver because that thing can be ridiculous and spellbreakers having stupid amounts of sustain.

    But skill levels still vary alot within the similar builds, so if one can beat more than half I still count it as a sucess. Have to be a pretty bad day for worse to happen and many times when it do and I get a rematch, I sometimes win - or at the very least perform vastly better. The initial engagement is always critical, I have a tendancy to use elixir X and moa way defensivly and loose where I could have won.

    I tend to have unrealistic goals/standards for myself, a win is a win but is not always success. That's why there are a lot of builds I consider to be "hard counters" for my core power Engi. For sure it isn't a surprise that many of them are meta builds but, I still give them a wide berth because I know to succeed I will have to heavily out play them. To win they just have to be bad.

    Somewhat unrelated, I was recently playing a lot of condition Engi trying to figure out a build I liked. I don't personally enjoy condition builds on Engi very much but I did craft a couple that were quite strong. Just because I know you enjoy it I thought I'd share those builds for you in case you have the resources ( armor, currency, etc ) to put the builds together and feel like giving them a go.
    100% Burn Duration Holosmith
    100% Burn Duration core
    The Holo build is a lot stronger and has a disgusting burst with Photon Blitz + Incendiary Ammo. Also I used mostly Dire instead of Trailblazer because with Incendiary Powder you only need 16% Condition Duration to reach max Burn duration and any additional Condition Duration doesn't increase other conditions very much.

    Witchery [YWY] | Maguuma/Anvil Rock | Diamond Legend
    Hate me if it makes you feel better ... ♫

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2020

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    With many hours of experience using this build I've concluded it is incapable of winning against the following things assuming both players are of even skill: Guardians in general, primarily Dragonhunters, Sword/Sword + Staff standard power Herald, full condition tank Revenant/Herald, any variant of Boonbeast, Pistol/Shield Prot Holosmith, condition tank Mirage.

    Well having problems beating some of the best roamer builds isnt that surprising. Though I must say, I havent seen a decent holo in ages - 90% vanished in the last round of nerfs. As a condi I have problems with pretty much the same builds, with the addition of the duelist weaver because that thing can be ridiculous and spellbreakers having stupid amounts of sustain.

    But skill levels still vary alot within the similar builds, so if one can beat more than half I still count it as a sucess. Have to be a pretty bad day for worse to happen and many times when it do and I get a rematch, I sometimes win - or at the very least perform vastly better. The initial engagement is always critical, I have a tendancy to use elixir X and moa way defensivly and loose where I could have won.

    I tend to have unrealistic goals/standards for myself, a win is a win but is not always success. That's why there are a lot of builds I consider to be "hard counters" for my core power Engi. For sure it isn't a surprise that many of them are meta builds but, I still give them a wide berth because I know to succeed I will have to heavily out play them. To win they just have to be bad.

    Somewhat unrelated, I was recently playing a lot of condition Engi trying to figure out a build I liked. I don't personally enjoy condition builds on Engi very much but I did craft a couple that were quite strong. Just because I know you enjoy it I thought I'd share those builds for you in case you have the resources ( armor, currency, etc ) to put the builds together and feel like giving them a go.
    100% Burn Duration Holosmith
    100% Burn Duration core
    The Holo build is a lot stronger and has a disgusting burst with Photon Blitz + Incendiary Ammo. Also I used mostly Dire instead of Trailblazer because with Incendiary Powder you only need 16% Condition Duration to reach max Burn duration and any additional Condition Duration doesn't increase other conditions very much.

    I cannot get core power to work for the life of me in sPvP. So many blocks/evades/blinds to contend with. If I run rifle I feel super vulnerable without shield too. Easily gunned down by rangers and lit into by revs. Mind giving some tips on power core?

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    With many hours of experience using this build I've concluded it is incapable of winning against the following things assuming both players are of even skill: Guardians in general, primarily Dragonhunters, Sword/Sword + Staff standard power Herald, full condition tank Revenant/Herald, any variant of Boonbeast, Pistol/Shield Prot Holosmith, condition tank Mirage.

    Well having problems beating some of the best roamer builds isnt that surprising. Though I must say, I havent seen a decent holo in ages - 90% vanished in the last round of nerfs. As a condi I have problems with pretty much the same builds, with the addition of the duelist weaver because that thing can be ridiculous and spellbreakers having stupid amounts of sustain.

    But skill levels still vary alot within the similar builds, so if one can beat more than half I still count it as a sucess. Have to be a pretty bad day for worse to happen and many times when it do and I get a rematch, I sometimes win - or at the very least perform vastly better. The initial engagement is always critical, I have a tendancy to use elixir X and moa way defensivly and loose where I could have won.

    I tend to have unrealistic goals/standards for myself, a win is a win but is not always success. That's why there are a lot of builds I consider to be "hard counters" for my core power Engi. For sure it isn't a surprise that many of them are meta builds but, I still give them a wide berth because I know to succeed I will have to heavily out play them. To win they just have to be bad.

    Somewhat unrelated, I was recently playing a lot of condition Engi trying to figure out a build I liked. I don't personally enjoy condition builds on Engi very much but I did craft a couple that were quite strong. Just because I know you enjoy it I thought I'd share those builds for you in case you have the resources ( armor, currency, etc ) to put the builds together and feel like giving them a go.
    100% Burn Duration Holosmith
    100% Burn Duration core
    The Holo build is a lot stronger and has a disgusting burst with Photon Blitz + Incendiary Ammo. Also I used mostly Dire instead of Trailblazer because with Incendiary Powder you only need 16% Condition Duration to reach max Burn duration and any additional Condition Duration doesn't increase other conditions very much.

    I cannot get core power to work for the life of me in sPvP. So many blocks/evades/blinds to contend with. If I run rifle I feel super vulnerable without shield too. Easily gunned down by rangers and lit into by revs. Mind giving some tips on power core?

    This is the build I use on core.

    It is very much about the "waiting game" against better opponents. As I'd said in my initial comment, some things are pretty well impossible to beat. Others, it's just about waiting for the right time to Overcharged Shot or Magnet -> burst. I spend most of my time hard kiting, spamming auto attacks and proc'ing passive skills if they have any. Toss Elixir U is very good for staying ahead of people as is Toss Elixir S for repositioning. I also use Jump Shot more defensively early on in a fight to maintain distance and Pry Bar as a "back up!" threatening skill when someone closes the gap on me because it tends to hit quite hard. I slap them with it and return to kiting and they rethink whether they want to keep pushing in to me.

    Many fights I heavily rely on landing Toss Elixir X because I cannot afford to trade hits or spend time kiting. This skill saves me the most against Warriors and Thieves because I can completely shut them down and burst them 100 - 0 with my damaging skills. It also helps a great deal that it can negate things like Necro Shroud or Warrior's Rampage.

    If you'd like, I can do a little bit of recording this weekend to share a couple clips of how I use it. I obviously can't guarantee they'll be great fights, but it might help to give you a better idea of how to play it.

    Witchery [YWY] | Maguuma/Anvil Rock | Diamond Legend
    Hate me if it makes you feel better ... ♫

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    With many hours of experience using this build I've concluded it is incapable of winning against the following things assuming both players are of even skill: Guardians in general, primarily Dragonhunters, Sword/Sword + Staff standard power Herald, full condition tank Revenant/Herald, any variant of Boonbeast, Pistol/Shield Prot Holosmith, condition tank Mirage.

    Well having problems beating some of the best roamer builds isnt that surprising. Though I must say, I havent seen a decent holo in ages - 90% vanished in the last round of nerfs. As a condi I have problems with pretty much the same builds, with the addition of the duelist weaver because that thing can be ridiculous and spellbreakers having stupid amounts of sustain.

    But skill levels still vary alot within the similar builds, so if one can beat more than half I still count it as a sucess. Have to be a pretty bad day for worse to happen and many times when it do and I get a rematch, I sometimes win - or at the very least perform vastly better. The initial engagement is always critical, I have a tendancy to use elixir X and moa way defensivly and loose where I could have won.

    I tend to have unrealistic goals/standards for myself, a win is a win but is not always success. That's why there are a lot of builds I consider to be "hard counters" for my core power Engi. For sure it isn't a surprise that many of them are meta builds but, I still give them a wide berth because I know to succeed I will have to heavily out play them. To win they just have to be bad.

    Somewhat unrelated, I was recently playing a lot of condition Engi trying to figure out a build I liked. I don't personally enjoy condition builds on Engi very much but I did craft a couple that were quite strong. Just because I know you enjoy it I thought I'd share those builds for you in case you have the resources ( armor, currency, etc ) to put the builds together and feel like giving them a go.
    100% Burn Duration Holosmith
    100% Burn Duration core
    The Holo build is a lot stronger and has a disgusting burst with Photon Blitz + Incendiary Ammo. Also I used mostly Dire instead of Trailblazer because with Incendiary Powder you only need 16% Condition Duration to reach max Burn duration and any additional Condition Duration doesn't increase other conditions very much.

    I cannot get core power to work for the life of me in sPvP. So many blocks/evades/blinds to contend with. If I run rifle I feel super vulnerable without shield too. Easily gunned down by rangers and lit into by revs. Mind giving some tips on power core?

    This is the build I use on core.

    It is very much about the "waiting game" against better opponents. As I'd said in my initial comment, some things are pretty well impossible to beat. Others, it's just about waiting for the right time to Overcharged Shot or Magnet -> burst. I spend most of my time hard kiting, spamming auto attacks and proc'ing passive skills if they have any. Toss Elixir U is very good for staying ahead of people as is Toss Elixir S for repositioning. I also use Jump Shot more defensively early on in a fight to maintain distance and Pry Bar as a "back up!" threatening skill when someone closes the gap on me because it tends to hit quite hard. I slap them with it and return to kiting and they rethink whether they want to keep pushing in to me.

    Many fights I heavily rely on landing Toss Elixir X because I cannot afford to trade hits or spend time kiting. This skill saves me the most against Warriors and Thieves because I can completely shut them down and burst them 100 - 0 with my damaging skills. It also helps a great deal that it can negate things like Necro Shroud or Warrior's Rampage.

    If you'd like, I can do a little bit of recording this weekend to share a couple clips of how I use it. I obviously can't guarantee they'll be great fights, but it might help to give you a better idea of how to play it.

    Sure! I'd love to watch them. Never enough core engi content out there.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭

    Every kit is viable in open world. Some are going to be suboptimal for that skill slot depending on what you're trying to accomplish, but there is no single "bad" kit.

    Base Flamethrower does decent damage, gives you access to a blast finisher and a fire field. It also has some CC potential and a strong CD in incendiary ammo.
    Traited, it pulses stab and might, making it a very nice kit to camp in.

    Base Grenades don't deal the most damage in the world, but they can be casted behind you. This gives them very good kiting potential. If you want to kill mobs without taking a tick of damage, nades are great for that.

    Bombs are straight up amazing. You can spam Bomb 1 while moving around the map to wrack up kills on mobs with zero effort. You have a fire field and a smoke field. Good AoE damage, and some CC

    Traited, Bombs can pull mobs which is very nice for setting up big bursts, apply vuln and cripple, and grant fury. Post update, bomb skills will also grant stacking ferocity.

    Elixir gun doesn't do much damage unless you're playing a condi build. What it does offer is cleanse, a stun break, regen, a pulsing heal and a light field, a blast finisher, mobility and some condi potential. It's your go to kit for survivability.

    Med kit is underrated. The only reason why it's not used more is because healing turret is so strong, but the bandage heal has a very nice base value, and the cooldown is very short. You can cleanse, blast water fields, and generate boonz. You can also use med kit skill 5 to blast any other fields you might have.

    Traited med kit heals for more, has an even shorter CD on bandage (14 seconds), and can apply boonz via cleanses.

    Tool Kit is... there. It's the only kit that you could argue is "bad", but in open world, the pull, block, and wrench toss are pretty nice.

    As for clunk... I don't feel it. To me, kits feel like Attunement swaps without the cooldown. This actually makes them feel more fluid to play with by comparison. They do take some getting used to, but with practice, quick kit swapping will start to feel natural.

  • SpellOfIniquity.1780SpellOfIniquity.1780 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    If you'd like, I can do a little bit of recording this weekend to share a couple clips of how I use it. I obviously can't guarantee they'll be great fights, but it might help to give you a better idea of how to play it.

    Sure! I'd love to watch them. Never enough core engi content out there.

    Here are a few clips with core power Engi in WvW. Same build as mentioned in initial comment -> Vitality Tools.

    A few things I want to note first: Low quality fights - obviously these were not against skilled players. This build is impossible to make in PvP. I will be removing these from my channel after you've seen them because they're not very good, but I hope you get the idea of what playing it is like from these examples. I'm still gathering clips right now so maybe I can put together a longer video in the future.

    1 v 2

    1 v 2 / I didn't start recording until half way through

    1 v 1

    Trolling 1 v 2/3

    Witchery [YWY] | Maguuma/Anvil Rock | Diamond Legend
    Hate me if it makes you feel better ... ♫

  • Ghertu.7096Ghertu.7096 Member
    edited February 4, 2020

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Base Grenades don't deal the most damage in the world, but they can be casted behind you. This gives them very good kiting potential. If you want to kill mobs without taking a tick of damage, nades are great for that.

    Bombs are straight up amazing. You can spam Bomb 1 while moving around the map to wrack up kills on mobs with zero effort. You have a fire field and a smoke field. Good AoE damage, and some CC

    You listed some useful applications for those kits, I give you that, but the thing is... I wouldn't keep them in my build just for those. It's more like I could equip bombs and nades for a minute once a day for some particular occasion then swap back to whatever utilities I had. And this is kinda tedious. Though I'm sure engineers are not alone in that: every profession has a few skills like "I need it once a year, but when I need it I need it". Maybe the 10-slots skill tab wasn't a great idea from the beginning, dunno.