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What would it take to remove DuoQ vs SoloQ from ranked?


Xentera.4560

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@Linken.6345 said:So if there is only 1 duo looking for a a spvp match they should never get a match accoriding to you?Aint that abit unfair, maybe stick to custom arena farm is more your kind of playstyle OP

By this logic if there is only one person looking for a pvp should he never get a match?Waiting longer =/= NeverBut hey don't let facts get in your way.

You want to have an advantage against the other party by duoQ'ing with your friend, you need to wait longer. Simple as that.

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@Xentera.4560 said:

@Linken.6345 said:So if there is only 1 duo looking for a a spvp match they should never get a match accoriding to you?Aint that abit unfair, maybe stick to custom arena farm is more your kind of playstyle OP

By this logic if there is only one person looking for a pvp should he never get a match?Waiting longer =/= NeverBut hey don't let facts get in your way.

You want to have an advantage against the other party by duoQ'ing with your friend, you need to wait longer. Simple as that.

Yeah, you couldn't get matches without another in gvg or ha in gw1.

That only was possible after the migration to gw2.

It is not hard to find a team.

Not hard to find a team of similar rated players.

Pretty much what needs to happen.

There will be no revival of pvp with removal of duo q.

When they removed it back in season 11 I think until 13, many players in the 1600 rating left the mode or game.

Many players left the game and some guilds completely disband when they removed teams.

We saw a small boost when they brought duo q back.

Take away duo q again and it will shrink even more.

The groupings need to expand not shrink.

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... Why on earth should Anet remove the ability for people to play in a competitive game mode with their friends? Yes, ATs exist... But the downtime between matches in it is long, and they're only available every few hours. This is an MMO. Removing the ability to play with friends eliminates the point of the game mode. Yes, the people playing with friends have a bit of an advantage, via VoIP, and being used to playing with each other. ... If its that big of a problem for you, than join an SPvP guild, make some friends, and get some DuoQ buddies. The solution to your problem is really fairly simple. I think I at least see one SPvP guild advertisement per day put out in Heart of the Mists.

... And to be clear, I mostly queue up solo. But I'm not the sort of person who wants to prevent people from playing with their friends, because I occasionally bump into a skilled duoQ. ... Especially since those matches that I do lose, I typically lose because both people in the duoQ were better than me. And I can't complain about people better than me beating me. (And hey--sometimes I get that good duoQ on my team. Mathematically speaking it should happen just as often for me as it does against me, balancing things out)

And for all of the people suggesting that Anet just add in team and solo arena... They used to have that. Unfortunately, the SPvP population isn't big enough to actually support that. And its only shrunk since then. Its not a plausible option. Removing people's ability to play with friends will only continue to shrink the population. If the SPvP population gets a massive surge, then maybe it can be revisited again. But unless that happens... Its not a viable solution.

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@Xentera.4560 said:Wonderfu! Group with your friends all you like. Just do it against a party grouping with there friends too.

See the problem is that you’re not asking just to group with your friends, you’re asking to group with your friends against a team of soloQ’ers.

... Due to the timing of this, I'm presuming you were talking to me, even though I'm not sure if you actually read 90% of what I said.

Did you miss the comment about population? 10+ minute queue times isn't a viable solution to the problem. Spending close to 50% of your play time in queue should never be considered an acceptable solution for a game mode.

Additionally, I wasn't asking to group with friends, plural, against ungrouped randoms. I was supporting people playing with a friend, singular. The impact of two people in comms vs five people in comms is exponentially different. DuoQ isn't the insanely powerful thing you think it is. Just watch any streamer duo Qing. I've seen skilled duos go through some brutal losing streaks before. Being in comms helps some. But its not what makes or breaks a team. (See my previous post about the times when I lose to duos). Quite frankly, you're blaming the wrong thing for your losses.

... Also, from your verbiage in the opening post, you seem to be saying that you're constantly running into duos. Given that you think its ruining the game mode. Which means you should be getting them on your team just as often as you're facing them. And they'll be facing each other more often than not. That's just basic probability.

So, in a nutshell... DuoQ is the current solution to the problem, of letting people play together, without spending 50% of their time in queue. If you want to never play against duos, you'll need to find a solution which solves not just your perceived problem... But also the queue time problem for people playing with friends.

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I experimented something. The rank 1+2 player were queuing and it was like 7 mins long so as a plat2 solo queuer I would q into them and every single time I would do this would be an insta q pop for them.So let me ask in what world is match making balance when 2 legend players queuing together require a single plat2 player in queue just to get a q pop? Without me in there their q took 7 more minutes just to get put with gold 3 players.1.) this type of queuing isn’t fair for average players that want to climb2.)it literally forces players to duo and q dodge other duos3.) these wait times are avoidable if the game was solo q and we all know that that wait isn’t fun for any player in the game

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As always @net makes a weird thing and lets us bicker like hens for a long time and once it becomes critical, they back to work and tries to resolve the problem.

Frankly, just make a SoloQ for the solo player base that will reward the individual skill and give people who want to play with their friends, their lovers, their dogs, a Duo, 3v3 or 5vs5 Q, that will reward the teamwork .

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@"The Not so Evil Overlord.6305" said:

Did you miss the comment about population? 10+ minute queue times isn't a viable solution to the problem. Spending close to 50% of your play time in queue should never be considered an acceptable solution for a game mode.

So 10 min+ DuoQ with your friend will break pvpDuoQ against a random SoloQ team to have an advantage they don't have, won’t

Perfect logic right there.

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@Dantheman.3589 said:I experimented something. The rank 1+2 player were queuing and it was like 7 mins long so as a plat2 solo queuer I would q into them and every single time I would do this would be an insta q pop for them.So let me ask in what world is match making balance when 2 legend players queuing together require a single plat2 player in queue just to get a q pop? Without me in there their q took 7 more minutes just to get put with gold 3 players.1.) this type of queuing isn’t fair for average players that want to climb2.)it literally forces players to duo and q dodge other duos3.) these wait times are avoidable if the game was solo q and we all know that that wait isn’t fun for any player in the game

Now if the two legends didn't duo, they'd face each other on opposing teams more often (as they really should) and wouldn't risk 7+ min queues. But I have a feeling they're just fine with the status quo.

@Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:As always @net makes a weird thing and lets us bicker like hens for a long time and once it becomes critical, they back to work and tries to resolve the problem.

Frankly, just make a SoloQ for the solo player base that will reward the individual skill and give people who want to play with their friends, their lovers, their dogs, a Duo, 3v3 or 5vs5 Q, that will reward the teamwork .

Pretty much what I said. And if the price for "playing with friends" in a balanced match against other groups of friends is somewhat longer wait times, that's a fair trade-off. Otherwise, they can solo like the vast majority of people do.

To those saying grouping is easy and should be required, that's besides the point. That might be the ideal scenario, but the reality is that the vast majority of the player base solo queues and is fine doing so. If groups became mandatory the population would absolutely crash.

The current mixed queue system really indulges a minority of players, including meta gamers at the top, with debatable impact on solos in any given match. Theoretically, over many matches, any impact of non-mirrored duos should even out. But I suppose it's precisely that unknown and fluctuation that upsets some solos. If there was solo-only queue, these wouldn't be issues.

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No idea why people are bringing up Team queues, we already have it. That's what ATs are. If it was only Team queues, there would not be enough players to even get a match, so I have no idea what fantasy world they live in.

We really need to get rid of DuoQs, or at least have a SoloQ/DuoQ leaderboard split. Have there be two separate ranked leaderboards, for each gamemode, then allow players to rep their highest rank, it will everyone happy. People will still be able to ranked with their friends, and other players will be able to get legitimate games. Being top 100 means jack if you got boosted in a DuoQ to get there. Being top 100 in SoloQ is at least far more legitimate.

Not sure why people think SoloQ isn't compeitive yet DuoQ is: Dota, League, CSGO, Fortnite, and Six Siege all prove this wrong.

Another idea is: still have the DuoQ/SoloQ leaderboard split, but allow any number of people (2-5 players) queues up for ranked. If party size is greater then or equal to 2, have them go into TeamQ. If just a solo player is queueing, have them go into a SoloQ.

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@Xentera.4560 said:

Yes. Great idea. But it was tried in the past, before 2016 vote. It got to the point where teams were waiting between 30 to 50 minutes in queue during the day. And because in late night hours teams were almost none, people were teaming to farm ranking by manipulating matches (by the only available teams).

Clearly the vast majority of players who queue for ranked do that solo. Putting the vast majority at a disadvantage to the benefit of a small minority is never a solution. If somebody wants to duo/teamQ to farm rank/improve ratings, it is only logical that person will have to wait longer for a match.

lets shoot everyone that has friend in the foot becouse you cant find any, good solution.fixing matchmaking IS a solution

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

Yes. Great idea. But it was tried in the past, before 2016 vote. It got to the point where teams were waiting between 30 to 50 minutes in queue during the day. And because in late night hours teams were almost none, people were teaming to farm ranking by manipulating matches (by the only available teams).

Clearly the vast majority of players who queue for ranked do that solo. Putting the vast majority at a disadvantage to the benefit of a small minority is never a solution. If somebody wants to duo/teamQ to farm rank/improve ratings, it is only logical that person will have to wait longer for a match.

lets shoot everyone that has friend in the foot becouse you cant find any, good solution.fixing matchmaking IS a solution

Because asking for DuoQ to only go against a team with another DuoQ means shooting everyone who has a friend in the foot.

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@Xentera.4560 said:

Yes. Great idea. But it was tried in the past, before 2016 vote. It got to the point where teams were waiting between 30 to 50 minutes in queue during the day. And because in late night hours teams were almost none, people were teaming to farm ranking by manipulating matches (by the only available teams).

Clearly the vast majority of players who queue for ranked do that solo. Putting the vast majority at a disadvantage to the benefit of a small minority is never a solution. If somebody wants to duo/teamQ to farm rank/improve ratings, it is only logical that person will have to wait longer for a match.

lets shoot everyone that has friend in the foot becouse you cant find any, good solution.fixing matchmaking IS a solution

Because asking for DuoQ to only go against a team with another DuoQ means shooting everyone who has a friend in the foot.

thats whats supposed to happen, all this nonsens about removing duoQ is just that, nonsense.

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If Ats/MATs are the premier competitive pvp mode with the most prestige, why do players think solo q is the most competitive or more competitive than groupings?

Solo q is a large bit of chance.

Doing well with a former team in a team based game has always been seen as competitive.

You want to be the grand nagus of pick up basketball if you think solo q is more prestigious.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

Yes. Great idea. But it was tried in the past, before 2016 vote. It got to the point where teams were waiting between 30 to 50 minutes in queue during the day. And because in late night hours teams were almost none, people were teaming to farm ranking by manipulating matches (by the only available teams).

Clearly the vast majority of players who queue for ranked do that solo. Putting the vast majority at a disadvantage to the benefit of a small minority is never a solution. If somebody wants to duo/teamQ to farm rank/improve ratings, it is only logical that person will have to wait longer for a match.

lets shoot everyone that has friend in the foot becouse you cant find any, good solution.fixing matchmaking IS a solution

Because asking for DuoQ to only go against a team with another DuoQ means shooting everyone who has a friend in the foot.

thats whats supposed to happen, all this nonsens about removing duoQ is just that, nonsense.

But it doesn’t always happen and hence the problem.Having a duoQ against a soloQ team is an unfair advantage by any measure, and should not be a thing.

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@Xentera.4560 said:

Yes. Great idea. But it was tried in the past, before 2016 vote. It got to the point where teams were waiting between 30 to 50 minutes in queue during the day. And because in late night hours teams were almost none, people were teaming to farm ranking by manipulating matches (by the only available teams).

Clearly the vast majority of players who queue for ranked do that solo. Putting the vast majority at a disadvantage to the benefit of a small minority is never a solution. If somebody wants to duo/teamQ to farm rank/improve ratings, it is only logical that person will have to wait longer for a match.

lets shoot everyone that has friend in the foot becouse you cant find any, good solution.fixing matchmaking IS a solution

Because asking for DuoQ to only go against a team with another DuoQ means shooting everyone who has a friend in the foot.

thats whats supposed to happen, all this nonsens about removing duoQ is just that, nonsense.

But it doesn’t always happen and hence the problem.Having a duoQ against a soloQ team is an unfair advantage by any measure, and should not be a thing.

Why is it unfair?

The game will(should) still proceed with 5 on each team.

5 v 5.

Looks fair.

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:

Yes. Great idea. But it was tried in the past, before 2016 vote. It got to the point where teams were waiting between 30 to 50 minutes in queue during the day. And because in late night hours teams were almost none, people were teaming to farm ranking by manipulating matches (by the only available teams).

Clearly the vast majority of players who queue for ranked do that solo. Putting the vast majority at a disadvantage to the benefit of a small minority is never a solution. If somebody wants to duo/teamQ to farm rank/improve ratings, it is only logical that person will have to wait longer for a match.

lets shoot everyone that has friend in the foot becouse you cant find any, good solution.fixing matchmaking IS a solution

Because asking for DuoQ to only go against a team with another DuoQ means shooting everyone who has a friend in the foot.

thats whats supposed to happen, all this nonsens about removing duoQ is just that, nonsense.

But it doesn’t always happen and hence the problem.Having a duoQ against a soloQ team is an unfair advantage by any measure, and should not be a thing.

Why is it unfair?

The game will(should) still proceed with 5 on each team.

5 v 5.

Looks fair.

5 randos with no voice comms vs 3 randos with no voice comms and 2 with voice coms, thats how you should have split it.

I dont do ranked pvp at all in this game, but its a problem in all games with multiplayer that allow teams in random matchmaker. i -love- getting a cluster of 3 friends in halo for example on the enemy team its -totally- fair /s

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Is there any player in the game that Anet does not allow to duo?

Doesn't every player have the opportunity to duo?

You go into a game that allows things, and you are also allowed to do them, but you dont and you think because you dont it is unfair, and therefore no one should be allowed to do it.

Play to win, play ne the rules, and dont make up rules for yourself.

If duo is gonna make a player do better in pvp, and you believe that, and it is allowed, then why the heck dont you duo?

It is easier to just not duo and say it's not fair you have to play againtlst duos.

But, you are allowed to do it.

Play some games, pick a few players you find to be good and see if they can or want to duo with you.

Boom franships

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@Xentera.4560 said:

Yes. Great idea. But it was tried in the past, before 2016 vote. It got to the point where teams were waiting between 30 to 50 minutes in queue during the day. And because in late night hours teams were almost none, people were teaming to farm ranking by manipulating matches (by the only available teams).

Clearly the vast majority of players who queue for ranked do that solo. Putting the vast majority at a disadvantage to the benefit of a small minority is never a solution. If somebody wants to duo/teamQ to farm rank/improve ratings, it is only logical that person will have to wait longer for a match.

lets shoot everyone that has friend in the foot becouse you cant find any, good solution.fixing matchmaking IS a solution

Because asking for DuoQ to only go against a team with another DuoQ means shooting everyone who has a friend in the foot.

thats whats supposed to happen, all this nonsens about removing duoQ is just that, nonsense.

But it doesn’t always happen and hence the problem.Having a duoQ against a soloQ team is an unfair advantage by any measure, and should not be a thing.

I know, In fact sometimes there is 2x duo vs 0 duo.or me and 4 randoms from 1600 play against sind and his 1750 duo.matchmaking is clearly broken, it needs to be fixed.It has nothing to do with duoQ, and everything to do with making search work properly.

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:Is there any player in the game that Anet does not allow to duo?

Doesn't every player have the opportunity to duo?

You go into a game that allows things, and you are also allowed to do them, but you dont and you think because you dont it is unfair, and therefore no one should be allowed to do it.

Play to win, play ne the rules, and dont make up rules for yourself.

If duo is gonna make a player do better in pvp, and you believe that, and it is allowed, then why the heck dont you duo?

It is easier to just not duo and say it's not fair you have to play againtlst duos.

But, you are allowed to do it.

Play some games, pick a few players you find to be good and see if they can or want to duo with you.

Boom franships

I know it sounds weird, but in the past players would gather and play together; if not in real life, they would use software for voice chat like Muble and Xfire (some may remember these). Nowadays we have free communication with Discord and Teamspeak and people don't use them.

It's a new generation of players. It's a generation that likes and wants to play alone. Even though players nowadays play alone, they don't want to feel lonely, so they play in their own little world, with other random players, which also play alone. This can not be called teamwork, this can not be called unification, it can't be defined as teamplay either. It is however playing together in a group of random people, with the purpose of doing something without any real affection in connection or communication.

In my short-minded opinion, this is the only explanation that defines the vote for SoloQ from 2016, coming from a generation of players which tend to consume games at much faster rate than previous generations, without substantial efforts in making real-life friends.

Anet is just trying to adapt it's product (in this case GW2) to the marketing trends and what players like to consume, hence why we have much more development for PvE, instead of PvP which already has some success from SoloQ.

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@BadMed.3846 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:They should remove pugs from ranked and have it be team only.

Let pugs and 1-5 for unranked.

Forming or joining a team should be a requirement for ranked pvp.

Finding and needing a group is required throughout much of the game especially harder content.

The mistake with pvp was solo casual catering.

The same top dogs have been at the top throughout the ages, teams and duos are not holding you back.

Are you unable to compete in ATs? A team comp deserves a more competitive environment. Look harder and I'm sure you'll find it eventually.

Even if team queue was added back in, it's a rather dumb idea to remove solo queue.What is "pug" in a PvP game? Do you even know what it stands for? You sound like a lost zergling from the dead mists (aka WvW).

Do you have any sense of the current population and how we got here? A team queue only requirement will leave the total playerbase of this game at an unplayable level. Good luck with over 1hr queues.

But I'm sure you'll be flying off like other fairweather players who supported duo queue earlier. They're nowhere to be seen now. They said "we want to play with our friends". They and their friends are mostly gone for good now.

Duo queue is not holding anyone back yet duo queue are capable of maintaining a 10:1 win loss ratio through a season? Duo queue is spoiling games both ways. Duos are either great or horrible. Rarely I've seen a close game with only one duo in it. Matchmaking is not capable of handling the imbalance.

Ranked is now nothing more than a rewarding unranked mode. Honestly, that's perfectly OK. ANET got us here as they chose to keep duo queue to let friends enjoy together. The casual attitude of many solo queuers is expected and should be acceptable.

Also, this.

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