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AFK'ers in the Celestial Challenge


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I'm absolutely behind OP and quite surprised to see that most replies here only seek to justify this rotten behavior one way or another. Exploiting others is bad. Period. I don't care how 'boring' the event is, how much you NEED those tokens and how bad Anet is. I just make sure to report just as I would if someone is AFKing in any other content or game.

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The whole game's PvE reward system is built on a rather distorted principle "there are no losers, we are all winners". Whether you do crappy work in an event, or good doesn't matter - you get less, but the difference between auto-attackers and hard-working players is not that big. So it's basically a joke. I can get why they explicitly mock it all - it's built in such way any lazy bum can exploit it, it's just a semblance of real reward system - like any "just" social system, actually. So why shouldn't they exploit it? Why should they participate in this huge spectacle, to make it appear like it actually works?

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@Arlies.7456 said:I'm absolutely behind OP and quite surprised to see that most replies here only seek to justify this rotten behavior one way or another. Exploiting others is bad. Period. I don't care how 'boring' the event is, how much you NEED those tokens and how bad Anet is. I just make sure to report just as I would if someone is AFKing in any other content or game.

There’s a difference justifying this because one finds nothing wrong with it and justifying it because it’s how the rest of the game is. I would have no issues with this being adjusted/fixed so long as it is made to the rest of the game for those that do not pull their own weight.

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@Arlies.7456 said:I personally participate and do my best because I would feel bad exploiting others and feel good helping and working towards a mutual goal. Of course everyone is free to do whatever they desire but nothing changes the fact that it's a bad thing to do.

While I would argue it's 'bad' that players such as yourself feel your way is the 'right' way and everyone else is wrong. Everyone described in this thread is behaving in a manner that is consistent with the ToS and the event's design. That's the only 'right' way there is . . .

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@Gop.8713 said:

@Arlies.7456 said:I personally participate and do my best because I would feel bad exploiting others and feel good helping and working towards a mutual goal. Of course everyone is free to do whatever they desire but nothing changes the fact that it's a bad thing to do.

While I would argue it's 'bad' that players such as yourself feel your way is the 'right' way and everyone else is wrong. Everyone described in this thread is behaving in a manner that is consistent with the ToS and the event's design. That's the only 'right' way there is . . .

This will be my last comment on this topic because I have absolutely no desire to argue and I have nothing more to contribute to this discussion but your comment absolutely baffles me. Let us suppose MMOs weren't made with the idea for people to play cooperatively and they were not meant to be a fun hobby but a chore that you absolutely have to do in order to get those vital APs or whatever. Let us imagine that everyone agreed with you that the right way is to sit on our bums and wait for the event to be done by others... but wait there are no suckers who are doing the events anymore. What happens next? Should we put a movie to watch while waiting? Why would I even play if I'm just sitting on my hands? Events cannot be done without someone doing them. We can at least agree on that right? So again I stand by my first comment - this is called exploiting others and in order for you to be able to do nothing someone else has to do it. Exploiting cannot possibly be a right thing for someone who at least acknowledges the existence and work of others. Again do whatever you want, play however you want but don't quote me and say that I'm bad for having fun and helping out because I can't possibly accept that. If you don't contribute in a raid - you get kicked out because no one wants to carry a person who's not willing to carry their own weight. Should be the same in any group activity.

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@Arlies.7456 said:I'm absolutely behind OP and quite surprised to see that most replies here only seek to justify this rotten behavior one way or another. Exploiting others is bad. Period. I don't care how 'boring' the event is, how much you NEED those tokens and how bad Anet is. I just make sure to report just as I would if someone is AFKing in any other content or game.

It's fine to have that attitude if you're prepared to report 50% of the folks participating in open world. Again, the difference between an average open worlder and a knowledgeable veteran is 10x (not counting support builds). What I do in 5 seconds is equatable to what the average joe does in 50 seconds. If you want to talk about exploitation and leechers, its the large number of open worlders that THINK they're contributing. At the end of the day, they contributed 100k damage towards the boss in 50 seconds while I did that in 5 seconds and afked for the other 90%. We either deserve the same reward, or we both deserve to be punished.

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The freeloaders are just terrible. We had one today that even trolled in chat when asked to actually do something. Then he finally hid in the room to the left of where the chest spawns to hide his shame of being a freeloader. ANET needs to add a minimum participation level and a idle timer. If either one is violated they don't get credit for the event and can't open the chest or get the "stack". The event is tedious enough without having to carry other players being reward off of other players' work.

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@"Heibi.4251" said:The freeloaders are just terrible. We had one today that even trolled in chat when asked to actually do something. Then he finally hid in the room to the left of where the chest spawns to hide his shame of being a freeloader. ANET needs to add a minimum participation level and a idle timer. If either one is violated they don't get credit for the event and can't open the chest or get the "stack". The event is tedious enough without having to carry other players being reward off of other players' work.

There is a minimum participation level which are the stacks. I'm pretty sure that all of the players who don't participate are at their PC, or close to it, so an idle timer wouldn't be effective.

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@Arlies.7456 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Arlies.7456 said:I personally participate and do my best because I would feel bad exploiting others and feel good helping and working towards a mutual goal. Of course everyone is free to do whatever they desire but nothing changes the fact that it's a bad thing to do.

While I would argue it's 'bad' that players such as yourself feel your way is the 'right' way and everyone else is wrong. Everyone described in this thread is behaving in a manner that is consistent with the ToS and the event's design. That's the only 'right' way there is . . .

This will be my last comment on this topic because I have absolutely no desire to argue and I have nothing more to contribute to this discussion but your comment absolutely baffles me.Do you feel that running from something you don't understand will enhance your understanding . . ?Let us suppose MMOs weren't made with the idea for people to play cooperatively and they were not meant to be a fun hobby but a chore that you absolutely have to do in order to get those vital APs or whatever.Let us suppose that this event was created by the developers of this game, and players should be allowed to participate within the parameters of the event design to achieve whatever individual goals they seek . . .Let us imagine that everyone agreed with you that the right way is to sit on our bums and wait for the event to be done by others...Let us imagine that you were able to point to where I said that . . .but wait there are no suckers who are doing the events anymore. What happens next?Hopefully the developers of the event would endeavor to discover why the event was not getting participation and adjust it accordingly . . .Should we put a movie to watch while waiting?

I should hope so. I can't imagine the horror of trying to complete this event without a second screen running . . .Why would I even play if I'm just sitting on my hands?For the rewards, presumably . . .Events cannot be done without someone doing them. We can at least agree on that right?Actually, you might be surprised to learn that these events cannot fail . . .So again I stand by my first comment - this is called exploiting others and in order for you to be able to do nothing someone else has to do it. Exploiting cannot possibly be a right thing for someone who at least acknowledges the existence and work of others.I hope you now understand your error here . . .Again do whatever you want, play however you want but don't quote me and say that I'm bad for having fun and helping out because I can't possibly accept that.It is good then that I did not say that, and that you have come around to accept that other players may choose to play as they see fit and not how you dictate . . .If you don't contribute in a raid - you get kicked out because no one wants to carry a person who's not willing to carry their own weight. Should be the same in any group activity.Am I to understand that you are now advocating that all group activities in this game should require joining a squad that you can be kicked from if you are not pulling your weight? How would that work? Just straight majority rule, or everyone below the fiftieth percentile gets kicked, or only the top players comprising a majority contribution are allowed to remain, or what? Seriously, don't just say it should work this way without having a plan. If you try to think about a solution instead of just wailing at the problem you might surprise yourself with some of the innovative things you might be able to come up with . . .
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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Heibi.4251" said:The freeloaders are just terrible. We had one today that even trolled in chat when asked to actually do something. Then he finally hid in the room to the left of where the chest spawns to hide his shame of being a freeloader. ANET needs to add a minimum participation level and a idle timer. If either one is violated they don't get credit for the event and can't open the chest or get the "stack". The event is tedious enough without having to carry other players being reward off of other players' work.

There is a minimum participation level which are the stacks. I'm pretty sure that all of the players who don't participate are at their PC, or close to it, so an idle timer wouldn't be effective.

They don't have to even participate to get the stacks, t hey just have to be in the zone. At least with the idle timer they would have to actually be there and go through this mind numbing event. I say it again, those that are "afking", hiding in the room, or just standing there are a disgrace. An undercover Dev kicking such players from the zone would be awesome.

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@Heibi.4251 said:

@Heibi.4251 said:The freeloaders are just terrible. We had one today that even trolled in chat when asked to actually do something. Then he finally hid in the room to the left of where the chest spawns to hide his shame of being a freeloader. ANET needs to add a minimum participation level and a idle timer. If either one is violated they don't get credit for the event and can't open the chest or get the "stack". The event is tedious enough without having to carry other players being reward off of other players' work.

There is a minimum participation level which are the stacks. I'm pretty sure that all of the players who don't participate are at their PC, or close to it, so an idle timer wouldn't be effective.

They don't have to even participate to get the stacks, t hey just have to be in the zone.Are you sure about this? I feel like there have been times I didn't get a stack when I mapped in to an event in progress or I went for a pee or w/e. I sort of want to test it now . . .

EDIT: Can confirm, no stacks without participation . . .

At least with the idle timer they would have to actually be there and go through this mind numbing event. I say it again, those that are "afking", hiding in the room, or just standing there are a disgrace. An undercover Dev kicking such players from the zone would be awesome.I think dev time would be better spent improving the event to reward participation . . ?

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I just dont get how people are this upset in this specific case. I get it in, say, DB - it's competitive and small teams and 1 sandbagger really hurts the team chance to win, which is really all that matters there. Even metas need at least a critical mass of functional players to succeed. The CC by contrast is the cakiest PVE cakewalk - it literally cannot fail, your personal rewards cannot be reduced or removed, so why in the world would you care if someone behaves differently than you during the event because their goals/interests are different? What do you personally gain from their increased participation in this noninteractive, noncooperative activity? A vague satisfaction in knowing everyone did it the "right" way? The luck bar fills maybe 1-2 minutes faster? Seems like outrage in search of a problem to me.

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@"Kunzaito.8169" said:I just dont get how people are this upset in this specific case. I get it in, say, DB - it's competitive and small teams and 1 sandbagger really hurts the team chance to win, which is really all that matters there. Even metas need at least a critical mass of functional players to succeed. The CC by contrast is the cakiest PVE cakewalk - it literally cannot fail, your personal rewards cannot be reduced or removed, so why in the world would you care if someone behaves differently than you during the event because their goals/interests are different? What do you personally gain from their increased participation in this noninteractive, noncooperative activity? A vague satisfaction in knowing everyone did it the "right" way? The luck bar fills maybe 1-2 minutes faster? Seems like outrage in search of a problem to me.

You made our case for us. The event can fail if no one does anything. If 5 people sit in the zone and do nothing the bar won't advance. And like we've said, the event is boring enough that we want to get through it as fast as possible. The more who participate the faster it will go. The capture point one is an example. If only one person does it while 6 stand and watch, it takes a lot longer and may not complete. Same with the defeat foes - when you hit 50 it ends - so the faster you kill them the quicker it ends. And on and on and on.

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Except your "point" is a classic appeal to extremes logical fallacy. First, there are 10 players in a CC instance. Second, have you ever seen a case where 10 players all don't do events? I haven't. And if anyone is doing them, the bar fills. Some people like doing them, it takes all kinds. A quarter of the events can't finish early due to reqs or bugs no matter how many people do them. Ive never seen it take more than 6 rounds to get to the chest (~15 mins) or less than 4 (~10). So again, on average you might save 1-2 minutes. So again, your outrage at people playing within the framework of the event and choosing to open the chest with 1 stack is over a single lousy minute.

Like someone else said - you dont care about their 15 minutes, and they defintely don't care about your 1 minute. And you can't make them care. If it impacted AT ALL the rewards or chance of success I'd agree with you, but this is nonsense.

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@Heibi.4251 said:

@Heibi.4251 said:The freeloaders are just terrible. We had one today that even trolled in chat when asked to actually do something. Then he finally hid in the room to the left of where the chest spawns to hide his shame of being a freeloader. ANET needs to add a minimum participation level and a idle timer. If either one is violated they don't get credit for the event and can't open the chest or get the "stack". The event is tedious enough without having to carry other players being reward off of other players' work.

There is a minimum participation level which are the stacks. I'm pretty sure that all of the players who don't participate are at their PC, or close to it, so an idle timer wouldn't be effective.

They don't have to even participate to get the stacks, t hey just have to be in the zone. At least with the idle timer they would have to actually be there and go through this mind numbing event. I say it again, those that are "afking", hiding in the room, or just standing there are a disgrace. An undercover Dev kicking such players from the zone would be awesome.

They have to participate in an event to get stacks. Just standing somewhere doesn't do anything unless you happen to be standing on an objective.

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@"Shikaru.7618" said:I say all of open world because this is how it works everywhere not just in CC.

Once upon a time I decided to do Mega D. I WP in to the crater and see enough players that they hit my no-show threshold. You know what happened when the pre's popped?

Me and two other players did them.

I then started paying attention to the meta events and yeah, lots of players standing around waiting to tag the boss and letting others do the work, and they were in no way the minority. I did try for a while to hint in chat that they should get off their asses, "Hey! Anyone need help with the pre's? I'll come join you." These days if I find I'm the only one doing things I'll stop and try to convince any other suckers with me to let the event fail. They never take me up on it and I dig why: I already have the achievements and loot I needed from the world bosses. It's easy for me to walk away but maybe not so for them.

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@thepenmonster.3621 said:

@"Shikaru.7618" said:I say all of open world because this is how it works everywhere not just in CC.

Once upon a time I decided to do Mega D. I WP in to the crater and see enough players that they hit my no-show threshold. You know what happened when the pre's popped?

Me and two other players did them.

I then started paying attention to the meta events and yeah, lots of players standing around waiting to tag the boss and letting others do the work, and they were in no way the minority. I did try for a while to hint in chat that they should get off their kitten, "Hey! Anyone need help with the pre's? I'll come join you." These days if I find I'm the only one doing things I'll stop and try to convince any other suckers with me to let the event fail. They never take me up on it and I dig why: I already have the achievements and loot I needed from the world bosses. It's easy for me to walk away but maybe not so for them.

Which just reinforces my point that there will always be people that care more than I do. My investment in any world event is 5 seconds before i alt tab to a different game. If the meta fails, I've lost 5 seconds but I guarantee you that a non zero number of afkers will join the population of people who care more than me.

Blame the game for demanding so little of us.

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@"Shikaru.7618" said:Blame the game for demanding so little of us.

I tend to blame gamers for being gamers. Even if the devs did move the level of difficulty towards the players with the uber builds those players would still find ways to slack off and let someone else do the work in the events. "Harder" is not a solution to this problem.

Unless they start electrifying the floors?

Anyway, I don't think something as frivolous as a festival event needs a kick function. But I do think that the metas do need either an idle timer or the rewards adjusted based on participation level. Maybe no rewards above green quality if you're not tagged as having completed the pre events? Or if you wait for the chest icons to appear on the Palawadan map and you stroll in behind the zerg that has cleared a zone?

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