[PvP Build] Dagger/Dagger Spellbreaker

[Sobx.1758]

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@"Tycura.1982" said:No discipline makes me a sad boy

My zergbuild isnt running disci. Its weird at the beginning, but you get used to, atleast in zergfights you always have enough to do with resetting f1 with fc.

In duels and spvp in general i could see a bigger problem without disci. Build looks interesting tho.

This is part of why people have been wanting baseline fast hands...

...but the actual reason is because it's stupidly strong and people don't want to make choices, so just give me literally one of the strongest traits in the game as "baseline", so I can get it without losing out on other traits/traitlines. :sleeping:I still don't understand how people think that something should be baseline because it's so strong that it gets consistently picked over other things. That's not how it should work at all.

It's more that only Warrior has it, so why is it locked behind a trait line.

...isn't that true for majority of traits in this game? So by that logic we shouldn't have class specific traitlines/traits/builds and just unlock everything at the same time, because it's class reliant.

That's a slippery slope argument my friend.

Your argument is indeed a slipper slope and I really don't think it made a lot of sense :p(tbh I didn't know how to make this response not sound like "no u" :< )

lol.

Lets rephrase this then. Take Thief for example. They have Steal as a mechanic, which is both a shadowstep and gives access to stolen skills. They also have initiative, which only they get which allows certain weapon skills to be used in rapid succession, but is not locked behind a trait line.

If you want to compare steal/initiative to anything, it would probably be adrenaline/burst skills. Weapon swap isn't warrior's exclusive mechanic.

Warrior gets bursts attacks that take adrenaline to build and use (honestly its a stupid holdover from GW1 but whatever). They also get access to much shorter weapon CDs which only then can get, but it is locked behind a trait line.

So sticking to a thief example -any trait that manipulates initiative or steal should automatically be baseline, because it's thief exclusive. That still makes no sense to me at all. And, again, weapon swap isn't warrior exclusive mechanic, having a trait that manipulates it doesn't change that fact in the slightest. And EVEN if it was a warrior exlusive mechanic (it's not), it by no means makes it a valid reason to make traits that affect that mechanic "baseline". By that logic half of thief's traits should be made baseline. In fact, anything that affects adrenaline/burst skills would need to be made baseline. To me that's just weird to use as an argument to suddenly make a trait into an inherent class passive.

Now I know that comparing class mechanics to each other is apples to oranges if debating the mechanics themselves, but here the discussion is based around the access to the mechanics which is fair game for discussing and comparing.

I think I didn't mention it before so... weapon swap isn't warrior's class mechanic. :D

(I'm pretty sure we're going to not agree on this one, and that is fine).

Yes. :p

Note that I referred to the greatly reduced weapon swap CD, not weapon swap in general.

Would comparing the new addition of ele and engi weapon swap as its concerning the swap everyone has. Is fast hands being a trait akin to if ele and engi now having weapon swap out of combat as a trait instead of a base option?Maybe it's not just spitballing lol

Of course the counter argument is "If fast hands is so strong that it almost always requires you to take the trait line just for that sill, then fast hands should be nerfed not made baseline."

Because that's a fact. If something is so strong that it dominates other choices, then it needs to be brought back in line. Or the line needs to be brought up -but in case of FH it's hard to do specifically because of how weapon swap works as another skillbar with seperate cooldowns.

That's valid but it would also make warrior a lot clunkier to play.

Again, that would be true about any other class if they had access to reduced weapon swap cd. Specifically because it's a new skill bar and makes reactive gameplay easier and swapping weapons at the bad times more forgiving. LITERALLY any other class that can already swap weapons during fights. Surprisingly enough I never saw you acknowledge that (or at least I don't remember seeing that). Do you disagree with what I just said?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

In the interest of the base thread topic, lets defer further discussion on FH to a new thread should it be warranted. Sorry @Zexanima.7851 that this got derailed.

[Tycura.1982]

This is from my perspective as an SPvP Warrior main take it as you will.

Fast Hands/Warriors Sprint is pretty much a must have for any competive warrior play in PvP game modes. It's not that it's overpowered, it's that warrior had been balanced around it. It's the focal point of the whole class.

Warrior is de facto locked into melee. Our ranged options are garbage. LB is slow and played like a melee weapon and rifle is slow with bad dps. So being that were locked into melee we have to be able to catch people or they will kite us for days. There lies the need for Warriors Sprint. Why couldn't we replace that with swiftness? Our sources of swiftness are limited and a poor substitute. Runes? The 25%ers are geared to condi which we have little to no options for. Rune of Speed? Still have crap for swiftness. You could run warhorn but you'd be giving up shield.

Some builds are slightly viable without Discipline but you're typically watered down into a bunker build and you will lose most of the time against an equally skilled warrior running meta. You will stall the point for a long time but that's it and there are better classes for it.

TLDR: Warrior is built around the discipline tree hate it or love it. It's like arcane, trickery, dueling, ect. Lines that are pretty much the bread and butter of the class.