Fatal nerf pvp-condi — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Fatal nerf pvp-condi

Zraurum.8493Zraurum.8493 Member ✭✭
edited December 4, 2019 in Mesmer

Arena-net are you crazy? Why did you remove the mechanics of two fantasies from the staff and two clones from the scepter, which was tested by time, in the appendage you removed 50% of the duration of the vortex, and did not give anything in return except the idiotic skill chaotic interruption. Do you find it normal to just take and destroy the condition mirage assembly? If you so hate mirages, at least give support a branch for chrono at the firebrand level, and not its core. Return the clones and the duration of the states to their original value. Updated Condie Mirage in pvp is not playable
P.S.
I am not English speaking, but I just can’t tolerate the constant nerfs of my favorite class, so I wrote this appeal with the help of a translator.

I communicate through a translator

<1

Comments

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zraurum.8493 said:
    Arena-net are you crazy? Why did you remove the mechanics of two fantasies from the staff and two clones from the scepter, which was tested by time, in the appendage you removed 50% of the duration of the vortex, and did not give anything in return except the idiotic skill chaotic interruption. Do you find it normal to just take and destroy the condition mirage assembly? If you so hate mirages, at least give support a branch for chrono at the firebrand level, and not its core. Return the clones and the duration of the states to their original value. Updated Condie Mirage in pvp is not playable
    P.S.
    I am not English speaking, but I just can’t tolerate the constant nerfs of my favorite class, so I wrote this appeal with the help of a translator.

    This is mesmer, we get nerfed by 50% back to back, yes its stupid, yes its here to stay.
    Buckle up becouse the 50% nerf train is here to stay :D
    Just look at the guard, whenever 1 thing gets nerfed, 3 other get buffed, us?? nanana eat that 50% nerf.
    I think they just wanna get rid of all playable condi builds at this point.

  • Don Vega Van Kain.9842Don Vega Van Kain.9842 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2019

    People whine too much about condi. damage (Yahhhh, i want to take a power build but no clean, mitigate or counter skills, no, just offensif skills)

    Hopefully, i already switch to another "OP" Mirage build 3 days ago.

    Troll since 1988.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Koen.1327 said:
    what part of isn't justified? scepter 2 and staff 3 were creeped to 2 clones last year and became a big part of brainless clone spam
    vortex was the only ambush without a cutback on the clones (still like that ofc) - would've made more sense to leave player's ambush untouched and just cut back on the clones' dmg - but the nerf is deserved regardless

    looking at bigger picture the nerfs are minor: holo got hit harder, condi thief should be gone - mostly mirage's biggest counter

    can you explain how cutting ambush damage by 50% and clone generation of weapon sets by 33% is minor?
    Holo was nerfed more becouse its busted against every single build in every single scenarion, cmirage has its niche and its very kitten good at it, what whiners wanna do is make mirage bad at its niche, but whiners dont realize that the niche is the only thing cmirage has.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    can you explain how cutting ambush damage by 50% and clone generation of weapon sets by 33% is minor?
    Holo was nerfed more becouse its busted against every single build in every single scenarion, cmirage has its niche and its very kitten good at it, what whiners wanna do is make mirage bad at its niche, but whiners dont realize that the niche is the only thing cmirage has.

    Condi duration isn't equal to damage

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gryxis.6950 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    can you explain how cutting ambush damage by 50% and clone generation of weapon sets by 33% is minor?
    Holo was nerfed more becouse its busted against every single build in every single scenarion, cmirage has its niche and its very kitten good at it, what whiners wanna do is make mirage bad at its niche, but whiners dont realize that the niche is the only thing cmirage has.

    Condi duration isn't equal to damage

    its like saying that swipe isnt half range of steal becouse you never use it at max range.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Its interesting though a 50% nerf to something the weapon at its base level does not have at all..... so slotting mirage its more like a 50% gain still. At least only looking at the ambush.
    In any case its now low risk lower reward while axe shows itself to be higher risk higher reward (at least from the few people bumpped into using it.)
    Axe hurts its just not as safe as staff which is probably how it should be for the better.

    Overall the patch was not the worst patch we have had and thats speaking from looking at what happened to everyone not just mesmer.

  • Zraurum.8493Zraurum.8493 Member ✭✭
    edited December 4, 2019

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Its interesting though a 50% nerf to something the weapon at its base level does not have at all..... so slotting mirage its more like a 50% gain still. At least only looking at the ambush.
    In any case its now low risk lower reward while axe shows itself to be higher risk higher reward (at least from the few people bumpped into using it.)
    Axe hurts its just not as safe as staff which is probably how it should be for the better.

    Overall the patch was not the worst patch we have had and thats speaking from looking at what happened to everyone not just mesmer.

    With all this, this happened for the first time, with the Mesmer, it comes from patch to patch, but if earlier you could somehow get out of there by correcting the traits in order to reduce the influence of the nerf, then now, they climbed into the mechanics of the clones and buried the condies staff as a class. I lost count of how many Mesmer nerfs were, starting from the nerf ax and ending with what we did yesterday.

    I communicate through a translator

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zraurum.8493 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Its interesting though a 50% nerf to something the weapon at its base level does not have at all..... so slotting mirage its more like a 50% gain still. At least only looking at the ambush.
    In any case its now low risk lower reward while axe shows itself to be higher risk higher reward (at least from the few people bumpped into using it.)
    Axe hurts its just not as safe as staff which is probably how it should be for the better.

    Overall the patch was not the worst patch we have had and thats speaking from looking at what happened to everyone not just mesmer.

    With all this, this happened for the first time, with the Mesmer, it comes from patch to patch, but if earlier you could somehow get out of there by correcting the traits in order to reduce the influence of the nerf, then now, they climbed into the mechanics of the clones and buried the condies staff as a class. I lost count of how many mesmer nerfs there were, starting from the ax nerf ending with what we did yesterday.

    Other professions have had more nerfs imo than mesmer in general has. Mesmer just gets some really mean ones every 2 or 3 balances while everyone else for the most part maybe except Guardian gets lots of smaller nerfs each balance. Mesmer is known for skipping balance passes which leads to sudden hard nerfs once complaints reach a critical point. People knew staff ambush was a problem back before CI got nerfed if not way before them yet some how it made it all the way to yesterday before it got changed. Like had they just slowly toned it down over the past few patches it wouldnt have gotten a drastic immediate 50% cut that said Mirage still does not have its own shatters and people were not even encouraged to shatter while using a staff it has its own set of issues that anet still has not addressed.

    People are already pointing fingers at insta burst core mesmer too. Dont be surprised if mantras get changed next. Based on what i saw being typed in game last night mesmers future is looking kinda grim.

  • Zraurum.8493Zraurum.8493 Member ✭✭
    edited December 4, 2019

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Zraurum.8493 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Its interesting though a 50% nerf to something the weapon at its base level does not have at all..... so slotting mirage its more like a 50% gain still. At least only looking at the ambush.
    In any case its now low risk lower reward while axe shows itself to be higher risk higher reward (at least from the few people bumpped into using it.)
    Axe hurts its just not as safe as staff which is probably how it should be for the better.

    Overall the patch was not the worst patch we have had and thats speaking from looking at what happened to everyone not just mesmer.

    With all this, this happened for the first time, with the Mesmer, it comes from patch to patch, but if earlier you could somehow get out of there by correcting the traits in order to reduce the influence of the nerf, then now, they climbed into the mechanics of the clones and buried the condies staff as a class. I lost count of how many mesmer nerfs there were, starting from the ax nerf ending with what we did yesterday.

    Other professions have had more nerfs imo than mesmer in general has. Mesmer just gets some really mean ones every 2 or 3 balances while everyone else for the most part maybe except Guardian gets lots of smaller nerfs each balance. Mesmer is known for skipping balance passes which leads to sudden hard nerfs once complaints reach a critical point. People knew staff ambush was a problem back before CI got nerfed if not way before them yet some how it made it all the way to yesterday before it got changed. Like had they just slowly toned it down over the past few patches it wouldnt have gotten a drastic immediate 50% cut that said Mirage still does not have its own shatters and people were not even encouraged to shatter while using a staff it has its own set of issues that anet still has not addressed.

    People are already pointing fingers at insta burst core mesmer too. Dont be surprised if mantras get changed next. Based on what i saw being typed in game last night mesmers future is looking kinda grim.

    Right now I went into the lobby to see just the characteristics, the chaos of the vortex became the same as the wind chaos, that is, in fact this skill became even worse than a normal nuke, as it is being delayed! This is how to correct the balance to make an elite spell worse than usual ...
    I didn’t look at the cut mechanics of the clones, since it was obvious that the staff of the build was unplayable

    I communicate through a translator

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zraurum.8493 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Zraurum.8493 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Its interesting though a 50% nerf to something the weapon at its base level does not have at all..... so slotting mirage its more like a 50% gain still. At least only looking at the ambush.
    In any case its now low risk lower reward while axe shows itself to be higher risk higher reward (at least from the few people bumpped into using it.)
    Axe hurts its just not as safe as staff which is probably how it should be for the better.

    Overall the patch was not the worst patch we have had and thats speaking from looking at what happened to everyone not just mesmer.

    With all this, this happened for the first time, with the Mesmer, it comes from patch to patch, but if earlier you could somehow get out of there by correcting the traits in order to reduce the influence of the nerf, then now, they climbed into the mechanics of the clones and buried the condies staff as a class. I lost count of how many mesmer nerfs there were, starting from the ax nerf ending with what we did yesterday.

    Other professions have had more nerfs imo than mesmer in general has. Mesmer just gets some really mean ones every 2 or 3 balances while everyone else for the most part maybe except Guardian gets lots of smaller nerfs each balance. Mesmer is known for skipping balance passes which leads to sudden hard nerfs once complaints reach a critical point. People knew staff ambush was a problem back before CI got nerfed if not way before them yet some how it made it all the way to yesterday before it got changed. Like had they just slowly toned it down over the past few patches it wouldnt have gotten a drastic immediate 50% cut that said Mirage still does not have its own shatters and people were not even encouraged to shatter while using a staff it has its own set of issues that anet still has not addressed.

    People are already pointing fingers at insta burst core mesmer too. Dont be surprised if mantras get changed next. Based on what i saw being typed in game last night mesmers future is looking kinda grim.

    Right now I went into the lobby to see just the characteristics, the chaos of the vortex became the same as the wind chaos, that is, in fact this skill became even worse than a normal nuke, as it is being delayed! This is how to correct the balance to make an elite spell worse than usual ...
    I didn’t look at the cut mechanics of the clones, since it was obvious that the staff of the build was unplayable

    I saw a few staff users last night but they didnt camp staff anymore they used it for a short moment but yeh its not insane anymore where you can just sit in staff for a solid 20s and know you are doing damage better than most other weapons in your outside of offhand pistol burst.

    Ive gotten ripped up by a few axe mirages too i think people should invest in giving axe another shot.

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:
    what part of isn't justified? scepter 2 and staff 3 were creeped to 2 clones last year and became a big part of brainless clone spam
    vortex was the only ambush without a cutback on the clones (still like that ofc) - would've made more sense to leave player's ambush untouched and just cut back on the clones' dmg - but the nerf is deserved regardless

    looking at bigger picture the nerfs are minor: holo got hit harder, condi thief should be gone - mostly mirage's biggest counter

    can you explain how cutting ambush damage by 50% and clone generation of weapon sets by 33% is minor?
    Holo was nerfed more becouse its busted against every single build in every single scenarion, cmirage has its niche and its very kitten good at it, what whiners wanna do is make mirage bad at its niche, but whiners dont realize that the niche is the only thing cmirage has.

    the 2 clones on sc2 and stafff 3 were overkill, only to fuel a weak shatter cuz you had 3 clones already anyway
    the dmg loss is mainly from burn, which i find very minor

    to put in perspective both holo and warrior, specs that actually can kill, lost quite some potential and condi thief is gone

  • Zraurum.8493Zraurum.8493 Member ✭✭
    edited December 4, 2019

    All this reminds me of a fragment from the movie Alien Two, when Commander Gorman orders Sergeant Eipon to take ammunition from all the infantrymen located in the alien’s nest. Motivating this by saying that infantrymen cannot be shot there, which gets a fair question, is the commander crazy ?
    I have the same question for the arena

    I communicate through a translator

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:
    what part of isn't justified? scepter 2 and staff 3 were creeped to 2 clones last year and became a big part of brainless clone spam
    vortex was the only ambush without a cutback on the clones (still like that ofc) - would've made more sense to leave player's ambush untouched and just cut back on the clones' dmg - but the nerf is deserved regardless

    looking at bigger picture the nerfs are minor: holo got hit harder, condi thief should be gone - mostly mirage's biggest counter

    can you explain how cutting ambush damage by 50% and clone generation of weapon sets by 33% is minor?
    Holo was nerfed more becouse its busted against every single build in every single scenarion, cmirage has its niche and its very kitten good at it, what whiners wanna do is make mirage bad at its niche, but whiners dont realize that the niche is the only thing cmirage has.

    the 2 clones on sc2 and stafff 3 were overkill, only to fuel a weak shatter cuz you had 3 clones already anyway
    the dmg loss is mainly from burn, which i find very minor

    to put in perspective both holo and warrior, specs that actually can kill, lost quite some potential and condi thief is gone

    peeps dont see the point.
    mesmer is 80% garbage, 20% awesome chees.
    devs go bit by bit taking away our noodle mc cheese, and leave more and more garbage in its place.
    staff and scepter clones were NOT AN OVERKILL FOR MESMER.
    Prove it otherwise, take core or chrono and go WvW, show me how much shattering can be done my man.
    Take core or chrono and show me how much Shattering can be done in teamfights.
    Guess what, you create clone and insta shatter it, becouse they dont live more then 5s.
    Unless you run magnificent trait called IH. Too bad its mirage only. whoops.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Zraurum.8493 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Zraurum.8493 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Its interesting though a 50% nerf to something the weapon at its base level does not have at all..... so slotting mirage its more like a 50% gain still. At least only looking at the ambush.
    In any case its now low risk lower reward while axe shows itself to be higher risk higher reward (at least from the few people bumpped into using it.)
    Axe hurts its just not as safe as staff which is probably how it should be for the better.

    Overall the patch was not the worst patch we have had and thats speaking from looking at what happened to everyone not just mesmer.

    With all this, this happened for the first time, with the Mesmer, it comes from patch to patch, but if earlier you could somehow get out of there by correcting the traits in order to reduce the influence of the nerf, then now, they climbed into the mechanics of the clones and buried the condies staff as a class. I lost count of how many mesmer nerfs there were, starting from the ax nerf ending with what we did yesterday.

    Other professions have had more nerfs imo than mesmer in general has. Mesmer just gets some really mean ones every 2 or 3 balances while everyone else for the most part maybe except Guardian gets lots of smaller nerfs each balance. Mesmer is known for skipping balance passes which leads to sudden hard nerfs once complaints reach a critical point. People knew staff ambush was a problem back before CI got nerfed if not way before them yet some how it made it all the way to yesterday before it got changed. Like had they just slowly toned it down over the past few patches it wouldnt have gotten a drastic immediate 50% cut that said Mirage still does not have its own shatters and people were not even encouraged to shatter while using a staff it has its own set of issues that anet still has not addressed.

    Mesmer and Mirage have been nerfed way more than any other class we have had entire traits removed multiple times. I mean what happened to chrono? Seriously, mesmer has been nerfed over and over in very impactful ways that most of the time resulted in limiting trait and build options to the point that most mesmers all use the same stuff now BECAUSE EVERYTHING HAS BEEN NERFED TO HELL. For instance, even things none of us even think of like focus off hand to reflect has been nerfed. So many kitten things have been nerfed soon as people tried to use them in pvp and never really retuned and then other things get nerfed without any give back or new option being made. At least back in 2017 we got some changes to create new options (which directed people away from things like axe).

    People are already pointing fingers at insta burst core mesmer too. Dont be surprised if mantras get changed next. Based on what i saw being typed in game last night mesmers future is looking kinda grim.

    Right now I went into the lobby to see just the characteristics, the chaos of the vortex became the same as the wind chaos, that is, in fact this skill became even worse than a normal nuke, as it is being delayed! This is how to correct the balance to make an elite spell worse than usual ...
    I didn’t look at the cut mechanics of the clones, since it was obvious that the staff of the build was unplayable

    They nerfed the condition durations on the ambush to half which aguably makes staff worse than it was before it got buffed back in 2017 which is when people started to consider using it in the first place in pvp again. Staff was never that great, the point of using as mirage is for that ambush and in general as mesmer was always for the 2 phants on a short timer. without those the protection from traiting staff via chaos should arguably just become base for chaos storm at the very least so it at least retains utility while allowing for other traits to be used with it to create more options.

    I saw a few staff users last night but they didnt camp staff anymore they used it for a short moment but yeh its not insane anymore where you can just sit in staff for a solid 20s and know you are doing damage better than most other weapons in your outside of offhand pistol burst.

    If people sit on staff then they are using clones and ambush which has ramp up time vs spawning the clones and using to shatter. It becomes risky and higher skill to use staff this way since any decent opponent will just cleave down the clones and damage or expose the Mesmer in the process .

    Ive gotten ripped up by a few axe mirages too i think people should invest in giving axe another shot.

    Axe is mostly garbage in wvw/pvp. Yes, the damage "can" be good if you compare it to present nerf levels on other options, however, that ignores how bad the axe mechanics are. Granted I used axe long time and will agree it can work and when it does it can be fun. That said, the 600 range on the shadow step for 3 and the fact that its meager 3/4s evade is tied to this 600 range AND if it works you are teleporting to the opponent is suicide in many match-ups (warrior, reaper, etc). What in fact often happens with axe 3 is you try to execute it but the evade doesn't go off either due to range or de-targeting. Additionally, The damage on axe and its conditions have been nerfed multiple times which made it less rewarding vs the high risk which is exactly why myself and others stopped using it like a year or so ago. The suggestion we should all now go back to it is pretty ridiculous. From my recent experience axe mirage is still very easy to take out these days and with all the other nerfs that impact things like energy regen, mirage cloak evade window, ambush damage I would say its as bad an option as anything else probably worse at present since the current meta typically requires better sustain so anyone trying to use axe is either going to be swapping weapons to staff or scepter for defense/utility or moving off point (loss of point control), either way it doesn't suggest axe is good.

  • @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Zraurum.8493 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Zraurum.8493 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Its interesting though a 50% nerf to something the weapon at its base level does not have at all..... so slotting mirage its more like a 50% gain still. At least only looking at the ambush.
    In any case its now low risk lower reward while axe shows itself to be higher risk higher reward (at least from the few people bumpped into using it.)
    Axe hurts its just not as safe as staff which is probably how it should be for the better.

    Overall the patch was not the worst patch we have had and thats speaking from looking at what happened to everyone not just mesmer.

    With all this, this happened for the first time, with the Mesmer, it comes from patch to patch, but if earlier you could somehow get out of there by correcting the traits in order to reduce the influence of the nerf, then now, they climbed into the mechanics of the clones and buried the condies staff as a class. I lost count of how many mesmer nerfs there were, starting from the ax nerf ending with what we did yesterday.

    Other professions have had more nerfs imo than mesmer in general has. Mesmer just gets some really mean ones every 2 or 3 balances while everyone else for the most part maybe except Guardian gets lots of smaller nerfs each balance. Mesmer is known for skipping balance passes which leads to sudden hard nerfs once complaints reach a critical point. People knew staff ambush was a problem back before CI got nerfed if not way before them yet some how it made it all the way to yesterday before it got changed. Like had they just slowly toned it down over the past few patches it wouldnt have gotten a drastic immediate 50% cut that said Mirage still does not have its own shatters and people were not even encouraged to shatter while using a staff it has its own set of issues that anet still has not addressed.

    Mesmer and Mirage have been nerfed way more than any other class we have had entire traits removed multiple times. I mean what happened to chrono? Seriously, mesmer has been nerfed over and over in very impactful ways that most of the time resulted in limiting trait and build options to the point that most mesmers all use the same stuff now BECAUSE EVERYTHING HAS BEEN NERFED TO HELL. For instance, even things none of us even think of like focus off hand to reflect has been nerfed. So many kitten things have been nerfed soon as people tried to use them in pvp and never really retuned and then other things get nerfed without any give back or new option being made. At least back in 2017 we got some changes to create new options (which directed people away from things like axe).

    People are already pointing fingers at insta burst core mesmer too. Dont be surprised if mantras get changed next. Based on what i saw being typed in game last night mesmers future is looking kinda grim.

    Right now I went into the lobby to see just the characteristics, the chaos of the vortex became the same as the wind chaos, that is, in fact this skill became even worse than a normal nuke, as it is being delayed! This is how to correct the balance to make an elite spell worse than usual ...
    I didn’t look at the cut mechanics of the clones, since it was obvious that the staff of the build was unplayable

    They nerfed the condition durations on the ambush to half which aguably makes staff worse than it was before it got buffed back in 2017 which is when people started to consider using it in the first place in pvp again. Staff was never that great, the point of using as mirage is for that ambush and in general as mesmer was always for the 2 phants on a short timer. without those the protection from traiting staff via chaos should arguably just become base for chaos storm at the very least so it at least retains utility while allowing for other traits to be used with it to create more options.

    I saw a few staff users last night but they didnt camp staff anymore they used it for a short moment but yeh its not insane anymore where you can just sit in staff for a solid 20s and know you are doing damage better than most other weapons in your outside of offhand pistol burst.

    If people sit on staff then they are using clones and ambush which has ramp up time vs spawning the clones and using to shatter. It becomes risky and higher skill to use staff this way since any decent opponent will just cleave down the clones and damage or expose the Mesmer in the process .

    Ive gotten ripped up by a few axe mirages too i think people should invest in giving axe another shot.

    Axe is mostly garbage in wvw/pvp. Yes, the damage "can" be good if you compare it to present nerf levels on other options, however, that ignores how bad the axe mechanics are. Granted I used axe long time and will agree it can work and when it does it can be fun. That said, the 600 range on the shadow step for 3 and the fact that its meager 3/4s evade is tied to this 600 range AND if it works you are teleporting to the opponent is suicide in many match-ups (warrior, reaper, etc). What in fact often happens with axe 3 is you try to execute it but the evade doesn't go off either due to range or de-targeting. Additionally, The damage on axe and its conditions have been nerfed multiple times which made it less rewarding vs the high risk which is exactly why myself and others stopped using it like a year or so ago. The suggestion we should all now go back to it is pretty ridiculous. From my recent experience axe mirage is still very easy to take out these days and with all the other nerfs that impact things like energy regen, mirage cloak evade window, ambush damage I would say its as bad an option as anything else probably worse at present since the current meta typically requires better sustain so anyone trying to use axe is either going to be swapping weapons to staff or scepter for defense/utility or moving off point (loss of point control), either way it doesn't suggest axe is good.

    In my opinion now scepter pistol / axe torch is the best condi setup available ....i don't love scepter and i hate the fact that it has no "in fight mobility" as staff 2 , but i think now, for a condi setup it is the easiest and more rewording. My favourite weapon of mesmer is sword ( not gs ) but i don't see a real use of that now becouse even in a power setup , using sword in melee is always an high risk

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    its like saying that swipe isnt half range of steal becouse you never use it at max range.

    It's really not. Haven't you heard of condi cleanses ? I'm pretty sure most classes have quite a few

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gryxis.6950 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    its like saying that swipe isnt half range of steal becouse you never use it at max range.

    It's really not. Haven't you heard of condi cleanses ? I'm pretty sure most classes have quite a few

    and sometimes enemies are at close range and the steal doesnt need 1200 range.
    everything can be argued that way.
    rampage dealing 20 dmg wasnt 99% nerf, becouse sometimes oponents are at 20 hp so 10k dmg is not needed.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Zraurum.8493 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Zraurum.8493 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Its interesting though a 50% nerf to something the weapon at its base level does not have at all..... so slotting mirage its more like a 50% gain still. At least only looking at the ambush.
    In any case its now low risk lower reward while axe shows itself to be higher risk higher reward (at least from the few people bumpped into using it.)
    Axe hurts its just not as safe as staff which is probably how it should be for the better.

    Overall the patch was not the worst patch we have had and thats speaking from looking at what happened to everyone not just mesmer.

    With all this, this happened for the first time, with the Mesmer, it comes from patch to patch, but if earlier you could somehow get out of there by correcting the traits in order to reduce the influence of the nerf, then now, they climbed into the mechanics of the clones and buried the condies staff as a class. I lost count of how many mesmer nerfs there were, starting from the ax nerf ending with what we did yesterday.

    Other professions have had more nerfs imo than mesmer in general has. Mesmer just gets some really mean ones every 2 or 3 balances while everyone else for the most part maybe except Guardian gets lots of smaller nerfs each balance. Mesmer is known for skipping balance passes which leads to sudden hard nerfs once complaints reach a critical point. People knew staff ambush was a problem back before CI got nerfed if not way before them yet some how it made it all the way to yesterday before it got changed. Like had they just slowly toned it down over the past few patches it wouldnt have gotten a drastic immediate 50% cut that said Mirage still does not have its own shatters and people were not even encouraged to shatter while using a staff it has its own set of issues that anet still has not addressed.

    Mesmer and Mirage have been nerfed way more than any other class we have had entire traits removed multiple times. I mean what happened to chrono? Seriously, mesmer has been nerfed over and over in very impactful ways that most of the time resulted in limiting trait and build options to the point that most mesmers all use the same stuff now BECAUSE EVERYTHING HAS BEEN NERFED TO HELL. For instance, even things none of us even think of like focus off hand to reflect has been nerfed. So many kitten things have been nerfed soon as people tried to use them in pvp and never really retuned and then other things get nerfed without any give back or new option being made. At least back in 2017 we got some changes to create new options (which directed people away from things like axe).

    People are already pointing fingers at insta burst core mesmer too. Dont be surprised if mantras get changed next. Based on what i saw being typed in game last night mesmers future is looking kinda grim.

    Right now I went into the lobby to see just the characteristics, the chaos of the vortex became the same as the wind chaos, that is, in fact this skill became even worse than a normal nuke, as it is being delayed! This is how to correct the balance to make an elite spell worse than usual ...
    I didn’t look at the cut mechanics of the clones, since it was obvious that the staff of the build was unplayable

    They nerfed the condition durations on the ambush to half which aguably makes staff worse than it was before it got buffed back in 2017 which is when people started to consider using it in the first place in pvp again. Staff was never that great, the point of using as mirage is for that ambush and in general as mesmer was always for the 2 phants on a short timer. without those the protection from traiting staff via chaos should arguably just become base for chaos storm at the very least so it at least retains utility while allowing for other traits to be used with it to create more options.

    I saw a few staff users last night but they didnt camp staff anymore they used it for a short moment but yeh its not insane anymore where you can just sit in staff for a solid 20s and know you are doing damage better than most other weapons in your outside of offhand pistol burst.

    If people sit on staff then they are using clones and ambush which has ramp up time vs spawning the clones and using to shatter. It becomes risky and higher skill to use staff this way since any decent opponent will just cleave down the clones and damage or expose the Mesmer in the process .

    Ive gotten ripped up by a few axe mirages too i think people should invest in giving axe another shot.

    Axe is mostly garbage in wvw/pvp. Yes, the damage "can" be good if you compare it to present nerf levels on other options, however, that ignores how bad the axe mechanics are. Granted I used axe long time and will agree it can work and when it does it can be fun. That said, the 600 range on the shadow step for 3 and the fact that its meager 3/4s evade is tied to this 600 range AND if it works you are teleporting to the opponent is suicide in many match-ups (warrior, reaper, etc). What in fact often happens with axe 3 is you try to execute it but the evade doesn't go off either due to range or de-targeting. Additionally, The damage on axe and its conditions have been nerfed multiple times which made it less rewarding vs the high risk which is exactly why myself and others stopped using it like a year or so ago. The suggestion we should all now go back to it is pretty ridiculous. From my recent experience axe mirage is still very easy to take out these days and with all the other nerfs that impact things like energy regen, mirage cloak evade window, ambush damage I would say its as bad an option as anything else probably worse at present since the current meta typically requires better sustain so anyone trying to use axe is either going to be swapping weapons to staff or scepter for defense/utility or moving off point (loss of point control), either way it doesn't suggest axe is good.

    All i can say for most of this is that i dont agree based on my experince in playing the game, reading patch notes, using chrono was a fine example. Everyone knew chrono was up for changes and time and time again it slipped through balance passes. When its time finally came it got hit hard with some harsh changes while others got minor wirst taps during that particular patch after all they had already had their slam dunks in the previous patch or two if not way before then.

    Anet had already said that elites without trade offs would get them and in the patch that enforced them on most other elites if i recall (could be slightly incorrect here) mesmer or chrono and mirage managed to escape that patch some how and on the very next patch balance chrono got hit turning it into what it is today.

    I would say mesmer is always late to the party with balance but most certainly does not see more nerfs than any other profession sees.

    im not going to argue about what you think about mirage axe after all you are entitled to your own opinion on it and im entitled to mine.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like how people say staff and scepter were op because of how much clones they do, yet they omit the fact that on the same balance patch which made them op, all phantasms except berserker were heavily nerfed.
    Staff phantasm used to do 8k+ damage, now it tickles.

    The degenerate

  • Let this be guys atleast let's play a game, speculate what the next nerf will be? My money is people will start to qq about sceptre 2 or staff 2 now and want a cd increase.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @hanabal lecter.2495 said:
    Let this be guys atleast let's play a game, speculate what the next nerf will be? My money is people will start to qq about sceptre 2 or staff 2 now and want a cd increase.

    Its still gonna be IH
    then Mirage Doge when stunned.
    Then PeRmA dOdGe.
    Its also gonna be 1shot mesmer no counterlay QQ.
    after that its gonna be Mes has perma 20+ might.
    Oh wait all of those happend already :D

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    and sometimes enemies are at close range and the steal doesnt need 1200 range.
    everything can be argued that way.
    rampage dealing 20 dmg wasnt 99% nerf, becouse sometimes oponents are at 20 hp so 10k dmg is not needed.

    I'm saying condi duration isn't equal to damage and you're here saying that's like saying range isn't equal to range and damage isn't equal to damage ? That just doesn't make sense. Condi cleansing is stronger against long duration conditions than it is against low duration conditions, which means that a 50% condi duration nerf most of the time isn't a 50% damage nerf. If you make a condi from 1 stack for 4s to 2 stacks for 2s, it's a buff. I thought everyone knew that

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gryxis.6950 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    and sometimes enemies are at close range and the steal doesnt need 1200 range.
    everything can be argued that way.
    rampage dealing 20 dmg wasnt 99% nerf, becouse sometimes oponents are at 20 hp so 10k dmg is not needed.

    I'm saying condi duration isn't equal to damage and you're here saying that's like saying range isn't equal to range and damage isn't equal to damage ? That just doesn't make sense. Condi cleansing is stronger against long duration conditions than it is against low duration conditions, which means that a 50% condi duration nerf most of the time isn't a 50% damage nerf. If you make a condi from 1 stack for 4s to 2 stacks for 2s, it's a buff. I thought everyone knew that

    cleansing is as strong as your eyesight and reaction time, its not a rocketscience to quickly cleanse 10burn stacks.
    To OP, Cmirage will still be in OK spot, unless meta revolves around bunch of tifs fb and revenants that might be the case.
    If every team looks like 2x FB + 2x Rev + Tif then tough kitten mate :D

  • Zraurum.8493Zraurum.8493 Member ✭✭
    edited December 5, 2019

    @Gryxis.6950 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    and sometimes enemies are at close range and the steal doesnt need 1200 range.
    everything can be argued that way.
    rampage dealing 20 dmg wasnt 99% nerf, becouse sometimes oponents are at 20 hp so 10k dmg is not needed.

    I'm saying condi duration isn't equal to damage and you're here saying that's like saying range isn't equal to range and damage isn't equal to damage ? That just doesn't make sense. Condi cleansing is stronger against long duration conditions than it is against low duration conditions, which means that a 50% condi duration nerf most of the time isn't a 50% damage nerf. If you make a condi from 1 stack for 4s to 2 stacks for 2s, it's a buff. I thought everyone knew that

    Duration Condi allows you to throw another stack of Condi, thereby increasing the duration and damage from Condi. The more stacks, the more damage, the longer the stack hangs, the easier it is to increase their number. Last nerf catastrophic debuff .

    I communicate through a translator

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zraurum.8493 said:

    @Gryxis.6950 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    and sometimes enemies are at close range and the steal doesnt need 1200 range.
    everything can be argued that way.
    rampage dealing 20 dmg wasnt 99% nerf, becouse sometimes oponents are at 20 hp so 10k dmg is not needed.

    I'm saying condi duration isn't equal to damage and you're here saying that's like saying range isn't equal to range and damage isn't equal to damage ? That just doesn't make sense. Condi cleansing is stronger against long duration conditions than it is against low duration conditions, which means that a 50% condi duration nerf most of the time isn't a 50% damage nerf. If you make a condi from 1 stack for 4s to 2 stacks for 2s, it's a buff. I thought everyone knew that

    Duration Condi allows you to throw another stack of Condi, thereby increasing the duration and damage from Condi. The more stacks, the more damage, the longer the stack hangs, the easier it is to increase their number. Last nerf catastrophic debuff .

    Its not that bad, its just gonna make fights against thief even more miserable, becouse when he kitten up big time he cant even be punished anymore.
    Its still propably gonna be an alright sidenoder but im unsure, weaver is autolose, thief is autolose FB is autolose. time will tell.
    Fights against holo for example should be much more in cmirages favour.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    cleansing is as strong as your eyesight and reaction time, its not a rocketscience to quickly cleanse 10burn stacks.

    Which is exactly why a 50% condi duration nerf isn't a 50% damage nerf. If you take 1 second to cleanse a burn stack, it doesn't matter if the stack originally lasted 1.5s or 3s it will have the same damage anyway.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    BAN CONDI MIRAGES!!!!!

    ps. I play Mirage :p

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    When a minor trait for the spec grants condi damage and the elite spec weapon is based on condi, its ridiculous to suggest "banning condi mirage".

    Scepter clone generation was oppressive but staff really wasn't IMO (staff 2 / phase retreat is on 10 cooldown and puts you farther away), Phantasmal Warlock (staff 3) is on a far longer cooldown of 18s. You could argue the phantasms scale independently of your weapon stat and don't count for clones, but that's a separate matter altogether.
    I suspect the real reason that staff was hit is to make axe the strongest condi weapon available , to compensate for its lower range.

    Do you really want the only viable mesmer to be one that shatters people with power builds?

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    When a minor trait for the spec grants condi damage and the elite spec weapon is based on condi, its ridiculous to suggest "banning condi mirage".

    Scepter clone generation was oppressive but staff really wasn't IMO (staff 2 / phase retreat is on 10 cooldown and puts you farther away), Phantasmal Warlock (staff 3) is on a far longer cooldown of 18s. You could argue the phantasms scale independently of your weapon stat and don't count for clones, but that's a separate matter altogether.
    I suspect the real reason that staff was hit is to make axe the strongest condi weapon available , to compensate for its lower range.

    Do you really want the only viable mesmer to be one that shatters people with power builds?

    Its typical to nerf whats strong leaving it weak, but they WILL NEVER address the bad.
    Why the kitten does scepter/axe auto deal only 600 dmg? Entire axe chain deals as much damage as 1 good crit on warrior.
    Mirage is bandaid to condi becouse it provides sustained damage throught ambushes, play condi core, you throw p4+scepter 3. it gets cleansed and now what.
    Utilities deal no damage, all elites are unusable, shatters hit for 200, autos deal 600-800 ... ?
    The least they could do is up warlocks power damage to match damage from the 2, its kitten 200 DAMAGE on condi build. big LoL.
    They also wont address the fact that phantasms die to random aoe and hits, Alot of mesmer stuff is very unreliable.
    gs 2 just bouncess off target.
    gs 4 sword misses then phantasm just derps
    p4 channels at max range so you take 1 step and are out of range
    t5 always misses
    warden just hits random kitten, instead of the target. but at the very least she blocks prj and deals ALOT of damage if someone runs into her. too bad she has only kitten 3,396 hp.
    sword 5 is on the same boat as t5, at least it does its lunge that deals some damage.
    staff 3 same boat as p4, exept it also deals no damage to begin with.
    Phantasms get CC to stop their attack by random attacks
    they only have 3,396 so they can die to RANDOM kitten, warrior can gs3 to not only evade, but also KILL phantasms and put pressure onto you.
    And this is the only " RELIABLE " damage core has.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:
    I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

    from behind? my works fine

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2019

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

    from behind? my works fine

    "Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."
    = versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

    Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

    from behind? my works fine

    "Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."
    = versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

    Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

    then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.
    Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2019

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

    from behind? my works fine

    "Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."
    = versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

    Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

    then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.
    Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

    Yeah I dunno why I have to face people who can pop melee aoe from every direction while I have to have opponent in front of me at the risk of guttint my kite to use a kitten ambush who btw do half the damage they did in one clic.
    But it's probably proper balance.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

    from behind? my works fine

    "Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."
    = versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

    Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

    then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.
    Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

    Yeah I dunno why I have to face people who can pop melee aoe from every direction while I have to have opponent in front of me at the risk of guttint my kite to use a kitten ambush who btw do half the damage they did in one clic.
    But it's probably proper balance.

    I mea... i know its kitten, just look at how much axe autos deal, 600-700 damage, and thats if it doesnt get cleansesd.
    Entire auto chain deals same dmg as 1 click from other classes.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

    from behind? my works fine

    "Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."
    = versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

    Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

    then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.
    Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

    That's why it's clunky? I mean look at axe 2. It leaves you very vulnerable. It's almost as if they intended you to cover it with mirage cloak and then follow it up with an ambush. It's a shame that it also locks you into an animation with forward motion, often leaving you facing the wrong direction. Impossible to use? Nope. Clunky? You betcha! The change to phantasmal axes came after and not much thought went into it. They should revert this stupidity, as minor as it is.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

    from behind? my works fine

    "Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."
    = versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

    Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

    then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.
    Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

    That's why it's clunky? I mean look at axe 2. It leaves you very vulnerable. It's almost as if they intended you to cover it with mirage cloak and then follow it up with an ambush. It's a shame that it also locks you into an animation with forward motion, often leaving you facing the wrong direction. Impossible to use? Nope. Clunky? You betcha! The change to phantasmal axes came after and not much thought went into it. They should revert this stupidity, as minor as it is.

    They should fix many things, axe 3 or that crystal evade utility comes to mind.
    They are too busy figuring out what to nerf by 50% next.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

    from behind? my works fine

    "Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."
    = versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

    Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

    then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.
    Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

    That's why it's clunky? I mean look at axe 2. It leaves you very vulnerable. It's almost as if they intended you to cover it with mirage cloak and then follow it up with an ambush. It's a shame that it also locks you into an animation with forward motion, often leaving you facing the wrong direction. Impossible to use? Nope. Clunky? You betcha! The change to phantasmal axes came after and not much thought went into it. They should revert this stupidity, as minor as it is.

    They should fix many things, axe 3 or that crystal evade utility comes to mind.
    They are too busy figuring out what to nerf by 50% next.

    Pretty much. I anticipate months (hopefully not years!) of PvP irrelevance when they finally unveil their "fix" to mirage cloak as they realize you can't consistently nerf the wrong things for YEARS and still have a playable spec when you finally the nerf the only thing that was holding it together.

    Apparently, as long as I can dodge while performing other actions it's perfectly acceptable for my spec to deal damage over time that totals significantly less than most other classes are capable of dealing up front. I wonder how such a spec would perform if it weren't able to do that?

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

    from behind? my works fine

    "Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."
    = versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

    Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

    then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.
    Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

    Yeah I dunno why I have to face people who can pop melee aoe from every direction while I have to have opponent in front of me at the risk of guttint my kite to use a kitten ambush who btw do half the damage they did in one clic.
    But it's probably proper balance.

    I mea... i know its kitten, just look at how much axe autos deal, 600-700 damage, and thats if it doesnt get cleansesd.
    Entire auto chain deals same dmg as 1 click from other classes.

    Imagine if the axe auto attack chain did like... 500 power damage+3500 condition damage the way other builds just crit for 4k on their melee auto attacks.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

    from behind? my works fine

    "Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."
    = versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

    Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

    then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.
    Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

    Yeah I dunno why I have to face people who can pop melee aoe from every direction while I have to have opponent in front of me at the risk of guttint my kite to use a kitten ambush who btw do half the damage they did in one clic.
    But it's probably proper balance.

    I mea... i know its kitten, just look at how much axe autos deal, 600-700 damage, and thats if it doesnt get cleansesd.
    Entire auto chain deals same dmg as 1 click from other classes.

    Imagine if the axe auto attack chain did like... 500 power damage+3500 condition damage the way other builds just crit for 4k on their melee auto attacks.

    thats kinda the case RN, you do entire chain, 4 hits + seeking axe. Deal 1000 power damage, and 3k condi.
    condi gets cleansed, 5 hits into retal for 1300. and you end up dealing more dmg to yourself then to your oponent. kekW

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

    from behind? my works fine

    "Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."
    = versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

    Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

    then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.
    Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

    Yeah I dunno why I have to face people who can pop melee aoe from every direction while I have to have opponent in front of me at the risk of guttint my kite to use a kitten ambush who btw do half the damage they did in one clic.
    But it's probably proper balance.

    I mea... i know its kitten, just look at how much axe autos deal, 600-700 damage, and thats if it doesnt get cleansesd.
    Entire auto chain deals same dmg as 1 click from other classes.

    Imagine if the axe auto attack chain did like... 500 power damage+3500 condition damage the way other builds just crit for 4k on their melee auto attacks.

    thats kinda the case RN, you do entire chain, 4 hits + seeking axe. Deal 1000 power damage, and 3k condi.
    condi gets cleansed, 5 hits into retal for 1300. and you end up dealing more dmg to yourself then to your oponent. kekW

    No no. Imagine if each individual part of the auto attack chain hit for 3k and then 4k on the final. Like Warrior Greatsword.

    Or even just 2.5k like most melee auto attacks.

    I still remember Jawgeous literally screaming about axe auto attack hitting for 391 power damage and 224 bleed.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

    from behind? my works fine

    "Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."
    = versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

    Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

    then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.
    Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

    Yeah I dunno why I have to face people who can pop melee aoe from every direction while I have to have opponent in front of me at the risk of guttint my kite to use a kitten ambush who btw do half the damage they did in one clic.
    But it's probably proper balance.

    I mea... i know its kitten, just look at how much axe autos deal, 600-700 damage, and thats if it doesnt get cleansesd.
    Entire auto chain deals same dmg as 1 click from other classes.

    Imagine if the axe auto attack chain did like... 500 power damage+3500 condition damage the way other builds just crit for 4k on their melee auto attacks.

    thats kinda the case RN, you do entire chain, 4 hits + seeking axe. Deal 1000 power damage, and 3k condi.
    condi gets cleansed, 5 hits into retal for 1300. and you end up dealing more dmg to yourself then to your oponent. kekW

    No no. Imagine if each individual part of the auto attack chain hit for 3k and then 4k on the final. Like Warrior Greatsword.

    Or even just 2.5k like most melee auto attacks.

    I still remember Jawgeous literally screaming about axe auto attack hitting for 391 power damage and 224 bleed.

    lol this is funny, after 15s i realized he is not sarcasting and I burst out laughting XD
    300 dmg and 200 bleed AND IT APPLIES TO 3 TARGETS Pog

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

    from behind? my works fine

    "Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."
    = versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

    Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

    then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.
    Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

    Yeah I dunno why I have to face people who can pop melee aoe from every direction while I have to have opponent in front of me at the risk of guttint my kite to use a kitten ambush who btw do half the damage they did in one clic.
    But it's probably proper balance.

    I mea... i know its kitten, just look at how much axe autos deal, 600-700 damage, and thats if it doesnt get cleansesd.
    Entire auto chain deals same dmg as 1 click from other classes.

    Imagine if the axe auto attack chain did like... 500 power damage+3500 condition damage the way other builds just crit for 4k on their melee auto attacks.

    thats kinda the case RN, you do entire chain, 4 hits + seeking axe. Deal 1000 power damage, and 3k condi.
    condi gets cleansed, 5 hits into retal for 1300. and you end up dealing more dmg to yourself then to your oponent. kekW

    No no. Imagine if each individual part of the auto attack chain hit for 3k and then 4k on the final. Like Warrior Greatsword.

    Or even just 2.5k like most melee auto attacks.

    I still remember Jawgeous literally screaming about axe auto attack hitting for 391 power damage and 224 bleed.

    lol this is funny, after 15s i realized he is not sarcasting and I burst out laughting XD
    300 dmg and 200 bleed AND IT APPLIES TO 3 TARGETS Pog

    THREE TARGETS LOOK AT THIIIIIIS

    Meanwhile Engineer Rifle auto attack crit for 2k and pierces up to 5 targets and Photon Forge autos crit for 4k.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    I still remember Jawgeous literally screaming about axe auto attack hitting for 391 power damage and 224 bleed.
    THREE TARGETS LOOK AT THIIIIIIS

    Havent seen it somehow, pog.

    Meanwhile Engineer Rifle auto attack crit for 2k and pierces up to 5 targets and Photon Forge autos crit for 4k.

    I think you forgot to mention PF auto's range.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    No no. Imagine if each individual part of the auto attack chain hit for 3k and then 4k on the final. Like Warrior Greatsword.

    Or even just 2.5k like most melee auto attacks.

    I still remember Jawgeous literally screaming about axe auto attack hitting for 391 power damage and 224 bleed.

    lol this is funny, after 15s i realized he is not sarcasting and I burst out laughting XD
    300 dmg and 200 bleed AND IT APPLIES TO 3 TARGETS Pog

    Him saying sword 3 is really powerful is what truly got me

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gryxis.6950 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    No no. Imagine if each individual part of the auto attack chain hit for 3k and then 4k on the final. Like Warrior Greatsword.

    Or even just 2.5k like most melee auto attacks.

    I still remember Jawgeous literally screaming about axe auto attack hitting for 391 power damage and 224 bleed.

    lol this is funny, after 15s i realized he is not sarcasting and I burst out laughting XD
    300 dmg and 200 bleed AND IT APPLIES TO 3 TARGETS Pog

    Him saying sword 3 is really powerful is what truly got me

    2k HP ON CLONES!111111111 RIDICULOUS!1111111 TOOOOOO TANKYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!11111111111111

  • Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

    from behind? my works fine

    "Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."
    = versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

    Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

    then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.
    Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

    That's why it's clunky? I mean look at axe 2. It leaves you very vulnerable. It's almost as if they intended you to cover it with mirage cloak and then follow it up with an ambush. It's a shame that it also locks you into an animation with forward motion, often leaving you facing the wrong direction. Impossible to use? Nope. Clunky? You betcha! The change to phantasmal axes came after and not much thought went into it. They should revert this stupidity, as minor as it is.

    Great post.

    I asked for SPvP changes but i never asked for this...
    This game is ruled by the OW community to the detriment of all other game modes..

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Whats the Condi dps at now for mirage? and how able are you able to put out confusion bleeds and torment ATM? anyone able to answer?

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2020

    With scepter ambush mainly.
    Note that with the plethora of thieves and rev currently you highly need the sustain from staff : 2 to kite and chaos armor (weakness and prot.) If you want to survive few more seconds to focus.
    So what dictate your build today isn't which gameplay choose but how to survive.