Cool way on how to introduce the DSD — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Cool way on how to introduce the DSD

ArenaNet has been holding on to Bubbles for around 7 years now and we still don't know anything about it, so I think that when they do introduce it, there should be no warning, it's just sudden and shocking, and I believe the perfect way to do that, is with the death of Jormag. As we know already, the Icebrood Saga is going to be dealing with the ice dragon, I think the best way to set up the DSD's appearance is for good ol' Bubbles to deal the killing blow. Here's how I imagine it, it's the final battle against Jormag, we've rallied our forces and are hitting it with everything we've got, but it's not enough. We may have injured him yes. But at the cost of too many people, too many friends, but then, right as Jormag is going to add us to his Icebrood army, you hear a huge rumble, coming from something so big even Jormag stops to wonder. Then out of nowhere the ice shatters, and some eldritch horror, the likes of which we've never seen appears, and kills Jormag, absorbing all of his magic, and then retreats to the depths once again. This would leave the Pact and it's allies shocked, horrified, and confused, because a) The DSD came from nowhere, b) Elder Dragons almost always avoid one another, and the most terrifying reason, would be that Bubbles just killed another ED, without even breaking a sweat, which is a terrible thought. But I think a reveal like this fits with the theme of the ocean, in the depths, you never know what you're going to find, the creatures down below are beyond imagination. The ocean strikes quickly, and without remorse, and most of all, the ocean depths scare the absolute HELL out of every living being on both Earth, and Tyria, what do you guys think?

Comments

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I largely agree. When the first LS1 chapter hit with the Karka Invasion, it was widely predicted that the mysterious build up was leading to the DSD appearing or one of its Champions crashing into LA.

    I don't think the DSD will ever appear and now only exists to create speculation and mystery, but yes, a sudden apocalyptic arrival would be one way to do it

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • i actually love this idea

  • Spoilers for the final instance of Whisper in the Dark:
    [spoiler]
    At the end, Jormag talks to the group via a corpse, and makes mention that "ice fortifies. Ice protects." and that Jormag wants to help Aurene "end it all" and that there is a greater threat on the horizon that Jormag is willing to help the Commander fight and survive against. There will be some people who already think this is the deep sea dragon, and it could be interesting if so.
    [/spoiler]
    As to the OP's suggestion, I'm against it because it would break the established lore, the one that states that we need a replacement to kill any more Elder Dragons. Unless before we confront Jormag we get a replacement established for Zhaitan or Mordremoth, we simply cannot kill Jormag yet. Not without retconning the entire plot of Season 3, Path of Fire, and Season 4.

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  • The ocean waves never stay the same. They are volatile, immeasurable, unconquerable. As soon as you study one, quantify it, it crashes down back into the shapeless sea, but it is not lost. Another wave will come, melding with the remnants of the last, braining a new form to what you though you had mastered.

    Water is the ultimate catalyst... Well solvent. In any case, water is key to so many chemical reactions that organic life depends on. So many things wouldn't happen without it. In fact, one way of preventing unwanted reactions is to simply remove all of the water.

    I guess the other way of preventing unwanted reactions is to change water into it's crystalline form, or freezing it. Makes me feel like crystals and ice can be friends... but crystals just aren't what they used to be any more. Not after they got melted down. Hold on, I forget what are we talking about.

    Jormag seems to be quite interested in change. Prefacing that whole speech with it. But I have to say, it is kinda rude for Jormag to tell us that. But I guess it is not the first. Joko talked about it, now Jormag. But... like, the commander isn't dumb, the commander knows things are changing. In fact, the commander is the focal point of most of the change. The constant nagging about it is getting annoying... So if Jormag is afraid of change and IF that change is that one indescribable dragon. Well sorry, but the commander is the bearer of change. The DSD dragon and I we'd be cool. Well not frozen cool, but... you know what I mean. Jormag should just go ahead and melt away like Kralk.
  • There's speculation that the "threat on the horizon" is Primordus, which would make a lot more sense as we know from season 3 that he is Jormag's weakness. Hence Jormag has a vested interest in "protecting" us in order to kill Primordus and roam free.

    I agree though, that after seven years of build-up and mystery around the DSD, they can't just do it as predicted. Hell, I don't even think they should bring in the DSD to kill another Elder Dragon. The one thing people will predict near the death of one dragon is the appearance of another to consume it.

    If there's a time to introduce the DSD and for it to be feared, it really would be in the start or the middle of some other campaign.

  • @Tulki.1458 said:
    The one thing people will predict near the death of one dragon is the appearance of another to consume it.

    You mean like what people suggested out of the blue for War Eternal once finding out Kralkatorrik fell into water?

    Yeah.

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  • Okay, "predict" is the wrong word. I mean "expect".

    If they introduced the DSD in that moment, it'd be cool but expected.
    If the DSD intervenes as soon as we start a campaign against Primordus, not so expected.

  • Eh, if it's just at the start, it'd still feel expected. That's pretty much what they did with Jormag during Season 3. Twice. White Mantle campaign starts up-> Primordus becomes active; campaign against Primordus starts up->Jormag's active now too.

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  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    As to the OP's suggestion, I'm against it because it would break the established lore, the one that states that we need a replacement to kill any more Elder Dragons. Unless before we confront Jormag we get a replacement established for Zhaitan or Mordremoth, we simply cannot kill Jormag yet. Not without retconning the entire plot of Season 3, Path of Fire, and Season 4.

    My thinking is that since I believe it was Taimi who said that proximity is a factor for absorbing magic when an ED/Balthazar dies, this was shown through Primordus and Jormag, Primordus could make death and plant powered destroyers, while Jormag had absorbed a lot less and only made the abomination we fight in season 3, because Bubbles is in the deepest part of the Unending Ocean, I believe that he’s received the least, if any other kinds of magics from the fallen dragons, this added to the fact that the DSD would be right next to Jormag when he blows, and that since he hasn’t absorbed much magic before, he can absorb a lot more than the other dragons. Plus I think it makes the most sense for Bubbles to be the one that gets Jormag’s magic, ice is just another form of water.

  • @Scraggy.3814 said:

    Plus I think it makes the most sense for Bubbles to be the one that gets Jormag’s magic, ice is just another form of water.

    I like to think you're right about the first part. As a nitpicker ice isn't a form of water, its a state of water, but I get the idea.

  • @Scraggy.3814 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    As to the OP's suggestion, I'm against it because it would break the established lore, the one that states that we need a replacement to kill any more Elder Dragons. Unless before we confront Jormag we get a replacement established for Zhaitan or Mordremoth, we simply cannot kill Jormag yet. Not without retconning the entire plot of Season 3, Path of Fire, and Season 4.

    My thinking is that since I believe it was Taimi who said that proximity is a factor for absorbing magic when an ED/Balthazar dies, this was shown through Primordus and Jormag, Primordus could make death and plant powered destroyers, while Jormag had absorbed a lot less and only made the abomination we fight in season 3, because Bubbles is in the deepest part of the Unending Ocean, I believe that he’s received the least, if any other kinds of magics from the fallen dragons, this added to the fact that the DSD would be right next to Jormag when he blows, and that since he hasn’t absorbed much magic before, he can absorb a lot more than the other dragons. Plus I think it makes the most sense for Bubbles to be the one that gets Jormag’s magic, ice is just another form of water.

    You missed the point. From Flashpoint and onward, the issue hasn't been "too much magic in the world", but the balance of The All, and Elder Dragons being replaced within the scope of The All. All indication shows that an Elder Dragon cannot maintain two positions in The All - otherwise, Primordus and Kralkatorrik would have begun to hold up Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's spheres but as we saw during Flashpoint's simulation, they remained fully inert. On top of that, Glint's Legacy was intended to replace all six Elder Dragons with multiple other beings (which failed horribly due to the deaths of Glint and Vlast, and destruction of too many of her eggs before they could hatch, leaving us with only Aurene). All indications show that Aurene cannot handle the burden alone.

    So even if the DSD took in all of Jormag's magic, by all rights of lore up to the this point, it wouldn't be a replacement in The All, and The All would still become further imbalanced and we're still at the tipping point as we have been since Mordremoth died.

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  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    You missed the point. From Flashpoint and onward, the issue hasn't been "too much magic in the world", but the balance of The All, and Elder Dragons being replaced within the scope of The All. All indication shows that an Elder Dragon cannot maintain two positions in The All - otherwise, Primordus and Kralkatorrik would have begun to hold up Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's spheres but as we saw during Flashpoint's simulation, they remained fully inert. On top of that, Glint's Legacy was intended to replace all six Elder Dragons with multiple other beings (which failed horribly due to the deaths of Glint and Vlast, and destruction of too many of her eggs before they could hatch, leaving us with only Aurene). All indications show that Aurene cannot handle the burden alone.

    So even if the DSD took in all of Jormag's magic, by all rights of lore up to the this point, it wouldn't be a replacement in The All, and The All would still become further imbalanced and we're still at the tipping point as we have been since Mordremoth died.

    Then what if Bubbles had a replacement, we know some of the dragons have heralds/champions of the highest extent, for Jormag this is Drakkar and for Primordus it was the Great Destroyer, what if Bubble's herald replaced Jormag in the All? That way, Tyria would still be intact, but the DSD's corruption/minions (if not Bubbles himself) would be revealed in an excellent fashion. I know it probably seems likei'm reaching, but I want want the DSD to have an incredible story arc after years of mystery, i'll admit I might be a small bit obsessed

  • thats if teh DSD actually cares, what if it doesnt care that the world falls apart, or it knows exactly what happes when another dragon dies and knows how to benefit from it.
    i still like this idea of the dsd destroyinga weakened jormag, maybe even using primordus tunnels to travel underground

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Primordus does make more sense with it's weakness connection to Jormag.
    I'm kinda hoping there will be a rivalry between the two and we get stuck in the middle of it.

    I long to see DSD in game too but It'll kinda be outta nowhere if it's thrown in the icebrood saga.
    Personally I'd rather save DSD for Canthan related content for various reasons.
    One being a good excuse to go to that part of the world and another being the Jade Sea is a very good location to trap and kill it.
    There's also 2 good dragons over there which may still be alive and maybe able to replace it as well so all in all it's a good location to focus DSD content.

  • Sorry guys but, what is DSD? I havent played gw1.

  • Scraggy.3814Scraggy.3814 Member ✭✭
    edited January 18, 2020

    @zabandija.9623 said:
    Sorry guys but, what is DSD? I havent played gw1.

    The DSD stands for Deep Sea Dragon, it’s the sixth Elder Dragon that resides in the unending ocean

  • @zabandija.9623 said:
    Sorry guys but, what is DSD? I havent played gw1.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deep_sea_dragon

    No relation to gw1.

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  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    if they bring DSD, i hope it will be something like Jormag or better, i mean something more than just a "super elemental powerful god like being".

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭

    DSD seems to be Lovecraft themed, honestly I don't think it can ever live up to expectations with all the mystery around it.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 19, 2020

    Whether or not jormag’s threat is the DSD, I think this is great. Now or later, but I would love if that ended the Icebrood Saga and anet did expansion 3, the unending ocean (they said no planned expansions but by the time this saga is over they could have made significant progress if they decide to return to expansions soon). The DSD bursts forth as described by OP, and is frightening for those reasons. It’s ok for jormag to die because the DSD is right there to absorb most of the magic, and aurene can do damage control until we inevitably tame at least one more friendly dragon youngling. I would like if, after this, the story picked up with it randomly hitting coastal cities and we can’t stop it. All we can do is fight back against its minions popping up from every lake and river. Actually, that might be a good living world saga premise, which THEN leads to a full expansion about the sea

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  • Stephen.6312Stephen.6312 Member ✭✭
    edited January 22, 2020

    You know, the real problem with introducing the DSD in a compelling way is that Anet would need to execute the introduction competently. They just don't do that kind of thing well in-game. Their most compelling effects are almost always presented in written form. When Zaithan rose, he caused a massive tsunami. You'd expect the same from the DSD, right? In fact, you'd expect more. Will you get that kind of thing, the DSD creating big waves to assault the continent, in such a way that it is convincing? Probably not.

    Therein lies the issue at hand. Anet won't introduce the DSD well.

  • @Stephen.6312 said:
    You know, the real problem with introducing the DSD in a compelling way is that Anet would need to execute the introduction competently. They just don't do that kind of thing well in-game. Their most compelling effects are almost always presented in written form. When Zaithan rose, he caused a massive tsunami. You'd expect the same from the DSD, right? In fact, you'd expect more. Will you get that kind of thing, the DSD creating big waves to assault the continent, in such a way that it is convincing? Probably not.

    Therein lies the issue at hand. Anet won't introduce the DSD well.

    Well, the deep sea dragon is already awake and has been awake for ~200 years if Omadd's Machine and the Forgotten trials at Tarir are any proper indication. So the DSD's introduction wouldn't be a moment of waking up, like with Mordremoth (which, imo, was underwhelming in cataclysm for an Elder Dragon awakening, as cool as Verdant Brink is and feels like a proper "torn asunder" landscape compared to Orr). Which means that the effects don't have to be devastating like when Zhaitan or Kralkatorrik woke up, it just needs to be cinematically cool.

    IMO, the best way to introduce the DSD would definitely be a cinematic, probably one done in a style similar to the ending of S2/preview of HoT that was done. Or maybe even much simpler.

    One idea that I had churning in my head has been a cinematic that focuses on an airship crossing the Unending Ocean - it's not the Commander and crew, but someone players "care about" is one it. Reasoning for it could be anything - perhaps a diplomatic mission to respark talks with Cantha by Kryta. Doing such would make characters like Faren or Anise good candidates to be on the airship. The cinematic would be close up on the airship, bright sunny day, then suddenly shadows loom; the crew begins to panic, but we can't see what they're panicking about - many are scrambling, some just fall on their knees/butts out of fear of what they see. The camera pans out, the airship begins to fire, but all we see is the water way below acting strange as if rising up in a wave. The character of focus (let's say it's Faren) begins calling for help on a communicator - maybe calling for the Commander, or Marshal Logan. Camera pans out again, this time the airship is small, still firing at seemingly nothing, and we can see the waters rising on both side of the ship, like two tsunamis aiming to catch the ship between them, but you can tell the crests aren't quite high enough. Pans out once more, the airship is but a small speck, and you can see what's causing those waves: two massive jaws made out of a material so eerily similar to water yet clearly different, tendrils and tentacles bursting out of the water surrounding it, as the maw closes around the airship, and the communicator goes silent.

    I feel something along those lines would be a simple cinematic that goes so far to show the sheer size suspected of the DSD - and it need not even be bigger than Primordus' head from S3 to work, really, given how huge that thing is - and how the DSD and its minions are so dangerous, that even flying high above its territory would yield no safety.

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  • In the world of Tyria we only refer to DSD through the parchment of Five True Gods, where it is said that the name begins with the S, personally the story I would like to start from here and not with an attack.

    A story that starts with the discovery of this part you missed in order to know its name and thus begin the exploration of the sea to find it. I exclude that all dragons will be eliminated leaving the place to another, perhaps Jormag himself will survive this LS and we do not know if DSD is an evil dragon.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2020

    @Revolution.5409 said:
    In the world of Tyria we only refer to DSD through the parchment of Five True Gods, where it is said that the name begins with the S, personally the story I would like to start from here and not with an attack.

    A story that starts with the discovery of this part you missed in order to know its name and thus begin the exploration of the sea to find it. I exclude that all dragons will be eliminated leaving the place to another, perhaps Jormag himself will survive this LS and we do not know if DSD is an evil dragon.

    There's more references to the DSD than that.

    Firstly, we got the quaggans who were pushed out by them (and out of game, we know krait and karka were too), and we have our first ever mention by Decimus, and then the Tome of Rubicon also mentions it. It's well known there's a sixth Elder Dragon by Tyrians, it's even mentioned by Taimi and some nobody Pact soldier.The fact it's awakened is even indirectly mentioned at the end of the personal story ("there are four more Elder Dragons to contend with" - until Mordy woke up, that was true).

    It's just that its name is unknown. To players. Tyrians know the name by now, but ArenaNet lampshades this fact every time it would be brought up and makes them "momentarily forget" so that we players don't learn it - for whatever reason (probably just the running gag of the DSD being a mystery).

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  • I like the OP-idea to make a sudden and unexpected introduction, but not in the way described. It would break too much existing lore.
    Another way to do it would be to defeat Jormag and his reign, so the ice melts rapidly and turns into a sea, this allows the DSD to come into view and range and claim the new land.

    But more importantly, there should be some major twist, explaining why the DSD is so mysterious (not like Mordremoth, which was to me like: "Ow hey this dragon awoke, we knew about it all along, and his name isMordremoth, didn't you get the memo??)"
    So a proper backstory to this dragons identity and background would be a must to me.

  • @mercury ranique.2170 said:
    But more importantly, there should be some major twist, explaining why the DSD is so mysterious (not like Mordremoth, which was to me like: "Ow hey this dragon awoke, we knew about it all along, and his name isMordremoth, didn't you get the memo??)"

    The DSD is only mysterious because its in the middle of the ocean, and all of the major races are land based, so there's not really been much in the way of interaction. And there is no real way to reach it that we know of, as I doubt Charr subs can survive the kind of pressures at the depths the DSD is probably chilling in.

    The DSD will likely be the hardest dragon to kill, in terms of accessibility. Unless we can find some way to drag it to the surface.

  • @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    The DSD will likely be the hardest dragon to kill, in terms of accessibility. Unless we can find some way to drag it to the surface.

    I dunno. I think oceanic depths will be easier to navigate than magmatic depths. Especially since we are already allied with an oceanic race, and tentatively allied with another.

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  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    I dunno. I think oceanic depths will be easier to navigate than magmatic depths. Especially since we are already allied with an oceanic race, and tentatively allied with another.

    Ehh, Primordus is known to just tool around in the normal depths a lot too. He's already made the mistake of frequenting an environment we can survive.

  • @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    I dunno. I think oceanic depths will be easier to navigate than magmatic depths. Especially since we are already allied with an oceanic race, and tentatively allied with another.

    Ehh, Primordus is known to just tool around in the normal depths a lot too. He's already made the mistake of frequenting an environment we can survive.

    The only reason we could survive Titan's Throat's heat was because we had protection from the elder druids. Though I'm sure Taimi can work up more heat resistances as she had for Scruffy.

    But at the end of S3, he submerged himself in magma directly, which neither protections shown so far could, well, protect against. And that seems to be his go-to defense mechanism. If he were to remain in magma, he'd be untouchable.

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  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    The only reason we could survive Titan's Throat's heat was because we had protection from the elder druids. Though I'm sure Taimi can work up more heat resistances as she had for Scruffy.

    But at the end of S3, he submerged himself in magma directly, which neither protections shown so far could, well, protect against. And that seems to be his go-to defense mechanism. If he were to remain in magma, he'd be untouchable.

    That's not what I was referring to. I was referring to Primordus rummaging around in the depths and attacking the Asuran cities, which are obviously not in volcanoes, just the normal Depths, like what we explored in Eye of the North.

  • @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    The only reason we could survive Titan's Throat's heat was because we had protection from the elder druids. Though I'm sure Taimi can work up more heat resistances as she had for Scruffy.

    But at the end of S3, he submerged himself in magma directly, which neither protections shown so far could, well, protect against. And that seems to be his go-to defense mechanism. If he were to remain in magma, he'd be untouchable.

    That's not what I was referring to. I was referring to Primordus rummaging around in the depths and attacking the Asuran cities, which are obviously not in volcanoes, just the normal Depths, like what we explored in Eye of the North.

    True, but that was when Primordus just woke up and was clearing the underground of life. After doing that, Primordus has resided in/around magma.

    Even his chamber in GW1 was hard to survive without thermal protection, with the whole chamber in lava.

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