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AFK'ers in the Celestial Challenge

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  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Blame the game for demanding so little of us.

    I tend to blame gamers for being gamers. Even if the devs did move the level of difficulty towards the players with the uber builds those players would still find ways to slack off and let someone else do the work in the events. "Harder" is not a solution to this problem.

    Unless they start electrifying the floors?

    Anyway, I don't think something as frivolous as a festival event needs a kick function. But I do think that the metas do need either an idle timer or the rewards adjusted based on participation level. Maybe no rewards above green quality if you're not tagged as having completed the pre events? Or if you wait for the chest icons to appear on the Palawadan map and you stroll in behind the zerg that has cleared a zone?

    That wouldnt change my play pattern at all and would only serve to punish players that join mid way. For CC that is going to lead to near empty instances as people who join a half way instance immediately peace out or afk until the cycle resets.

    Also not saying this is the right way to solve the problem because it would likely drive a lot of players away, but individual performance based rewards would force people to actually play. The higher your damage, boons, heals, or execution of mechanics, the more you get rewarded. This doesnt raise the difficulty of any event yet would get people to not afk. In fact itd likely make all metas go super smooth as people are scrambling to do as much damage, or execute perfect mechanics to claim their share of loot. People who die would way point so that they can continue building their contribution bar before the event ends, people would also not be incentivized to res them as you heal for nothing on a fully dead person and would actively not be filling your own participation bar efficiently. Downed people would be ressed immediately as youd contribute significant healing per second to your over all contribution score. The only issue with this is the population would cry and whine they're not getting rewards and just leave the game.

  • Jethro.9376Jethro.9376 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2020

    @Kirigaya Kazuto.8547 said:
    As there is no way to report "leeching" I always report people afk for botting. It's super annoying and the event takes much longer! They should get no reward and no progress for the achievement if they don't actively participate in at least a few events!

    Exactly! Rewards are already given out like candy.

    Problem is, even just hitting one or two skills is enough to get gold rewards in open world.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hashberry.4510 said:
    'The poor design forces me to take advantage of other players'. I would not accept that attitude from my kids.

    I didn't even realize you were playing with your kids but obv that rl relationship supersedes anything that's going on in the game and naturally you are entitled to instruct your children as you see fit. I would never presume to insist that everyone raise their children in the way that I feel is best . . .

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2020

    I find that event utterly boring and the rewards are kitten, thus sorry if I'm one of those AFKers but I want the achis and I won't stop this until anet changes how the event works (or I finish achis, which I suspect will happen sooner than the former).

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    For those that want to do minimal participation, and not be harassed for doing so, you can go up to the roof of the building.

    You can get there with either special action abilities you get from two of the events. The towers put you out of view but there’s a bush on the left side that conceals you almost entirely.

  • Glider.5792Glider.5792 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    For those that want to do minimal participation, and not be harassed for doing so, you can go up to the roof of the building.

    You can get there with either special action abilities you get from two of the events. The towers put you out of view but there’s a bush on the left side that conceals you almost entirely.

    You can also get fully on top of the dome, under which the events happen ;)

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeFWMeskOJhk8N-SvOFCJXA
    Fractal speed kills, raids, Black Lion Chest Openings, random.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Glider.5792 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    For those that want to do minimal participation, and not be harassed for doing so, you can go up to the roof of the building.

    You can get there with either special action abilities you get from two of the events. The towers put you out of view but there’s a bush on the left side that conceals you almost entirely.

    You can also get fully on top of the dome, under which the events happen ;)

    True but I think there was an out of bounds up there too

  • Kunzaito.8169Kunzaito.8169 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hashberry.4510 said:
    'The poor design forces me to take advantage of other players'. I would not accept that attitude from my kids.

    Except this isn't a teaching tool or a Rorschach test, it's a game with as many ways to engage with it as there are players. If I go into CC to roleplay an event announcer I'm still "playing the game" of GW2 as it has been enabled and envisioned and within the ToS. I can say this about all of these ways people keep proposing to make it more complicated:

    1. Players who are engaged with the content for reasons other than the fact that they enjoy it will still find and take the path of least resistance to their own goal. They will always find a way to not participate to the level you think they should by figuring out the criteria to meet their minimum requirement and doing that.

    2. The more hoops you make to jump through to get credit for content, the more engaging and rewarding that content needs to be or people just won't do it. If they put in a lawn mowing activity where the whole thing was to RP walk the map until you touched every square and then you got 1 silver and a Glass of Lemonade lv. 10 food item no one would do that. It's not fun, and it's not rewarding. If you added some AP, AP hunters would do it begrudgingly until they maxed it and that's it. The "reward" of AP is marginally worth the time investment to get it for them and they will figure out the fastest way to get it. If you added rare drops, you might get some grailer types who like fishing for ultrarare items. If you added a leaderboard you might get some competitive players who want to make the best time in things. ANet is responsible for finding the sweet spot of how to make content they release appealing to the segments of players they are targeting by making it fun and/or rewarding and understanding player psychology. Players aren't going to police themselves the way you want them to if they even agreed with you on the way to view content additions.

    3. As you put more requirements on something, for each thing you have to figure out how to convey that to the players. Players who don't speak the same language, players with disabilities, players of different ages. Players running suboptimal builds or with odd playstyles, if applicable. Do you create a whole new UX framework for this little festival event? What's the tradeoff for that? And in the meantime the players who are only there for the daily or AP will continue to find and use the easiest way to meet the requirement, while you might be frustrating a lot of other players who don't understand the details.

    The answer is not "make it harder to get rewards for this unfun thing." All that leads to is empty instances and abandoned content. The answer is to make the content fun in the first place.

  • Tired of it myself... reporting them makes it even more of a drag when they show up the next day and leech even more.

    I've forgotten how many people I've reported, but it's more than two dozen. The vast majority of which were at 303 mastery points and just there to claim an 'easy' 60AP.

    Ridiculous. Both the design of the minigame AND the 'players' (leeches) exploiting it.

  • @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:
    Tired of it myself... reporting them makes it even more of a drag when they show up the next day and leech even more.

    I've forgotten how many people I've reported, but it's more than two dozen. The vast majority of which were at 303 mastery points and just there to claim an 'easy' 60AP.

    Ridiculous. Both the design of the minigame AND the 'players' (leeches) exploiting it.

    No action will be done though as they’re not violating any rules.

    Actually they're exploiting the game.

    Anet rushed the content and this is the price that legitimate players are paying for the creator's oversight.

  • @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:
    Tired of it myself... reporting them makes it even more of a drag when they show up the next day and leech even more.

    I've forgotten how many people I've reported, but it's more than two dozen. The vast majority of which were at 303 mastery points and just there to claim an 'easy' 60AP.

    Ridiculous. Both the design of the minigame AND the 'players' (leeches) exploiting it.

    No action will be done though as they’re not violating any rules.

    Actually they're exploiting the game.

    Anet rushed the content and this is the price that legitimate players are paying for the creator's oversight.

    It’s not exploiting. They participate in an event, get the minimum number of stacks needed to open the chest, and then stop participating until the loot phase. It’s no different than the examples given in this thread that exist elsewhere in the game.

    So are you saying the exploiters/leechers are blameless for this? You really think this is ok?

    Imagine if everyone in the instance did this... nothing would be achieved.

    That’s not what I’m saying. I just said that what they’re doing is in no way against the rules.

    So you also believe that those 60AP's they're so desperate for that they have to leech, are 'earned' as well?

    I really wish I could AFK for 60AP's... to anyone that's had to work for achievements, those AP's are gimme's.

  • @Dante.1763 said:

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:
    Tired of it myself... reporting them makes it even more of a drag when they show up the next day and leech even more.

    I've forgotten how many people I've reported, but it's more than two dozen. The vast majority of which were at 303 mastery points and just there to claim an 'easy' 60AP.

    Ridiculous. Both the design of the minigame AND the 'players' (leeches) exploiting it.

    No action will be done though as they’re not violating any rules.

    Actually they're exploiting the game.

    Anet rushed the content and this is the price that legitimate players are paying for the creator's oversight.

    It’s not exploiting. They participate in an event, get the minimum number of stacks needed to open the chest, and then stop participating until the loot phase. It’s no different than the examples given in this thread that exist elsewhere in the game.

    So are you saying the exploiters/leechers are blameless for this? You really think this is ok?

    Imagine if everyone in the instance did this... nothing would be achieved.

    That’s not what I’m saying. I just said that what they’re doing is in no way against the rules.

    So you also believe that those 60AP's they're so desperate for that they have to leech, are 'earned' as well?

    I really wish I could AFK for 60AP's... to anyone that's had to work for achievements, those AP's are gimme's.

    Just because you dont like it doesnt mean it is against the rules.

    The problem here is what's technically possible versus what's morally ambiguous.

    What ought to be taken away from this, is the classic 'just because you can doesn't mean you should'.

  • kratan.4619kratan.4619 Member ✭✭✭

    So you also believe that those 60AP's they're so desperate for that they have to leech, are 'earned' as well?

    I really wish I could AFK for 60AP's... to anyone that's had to work for achievements, those AP's are gimme's.

    Apparently you can AFK for those AP's.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2020

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:
    Tired of it myself... reporting them makes it even more of a drag when they show up the next day and leech even more.

    I've forgotten how many people I've reported, but it's more than two dozen. The vast majority of which were at 303 mastery points and just there to claim an 'easy' 60AP.

    Ridiculous. Both the design of the minigame AND the 'players' (leeches) exploiting it.

    No action will be done though as they’re not violating any rules.

    Actually they're exploiting the game.

    Anet rushed the content and this is the price that legitimate players are paying for the creator's oversight.

    It’s not exploiting. They participate in an event, get the minimum number of stacks needed to open the chest, and then stop participating until the loot phase. It’s no different than the examples given in this thread that exist elsewhere in the game.

    So are you saying the exploiters/leechers are blameless for this? You really think this is ok?

    Imagine if everyone in the instance did this... nothing would be achieved.

    That’s not what I’m saying. I just said that what they’re doing is in no way against the rules.

    So you also believe that those 60AP's they're so desperate for that they have to leech, are 'earned' as well?

    I really wish I could AFK for 60AP's... to anyone that's had to work for achievements, those AP's are gimme's.

    Yes. The event is designed so that you need at least one stack of the buff to open the chest which progresses the achievement. A single stack is earned by participating in an event. They may have done the absolute minimum to obtain the AP but they still earned it regardless.

  • Hashberry.4510Hashberry.4510 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:
    Tired of it myself... reporting them makes it even more of a drag when they show up the next day and leech even more.

    I've forgotten how many people I've reported, but it's more than two dozen. The vast majority of which were at 303 mastery points and just there to claim an 'easy' 60AP.

    Ridiculous. Both the design of the minigame AND the 'players' (leeches) exploiting it.

    No action will be done though as they’re not violating any rules.

    Actually they're exploiting the game.

    Anet rushed the content and this is the price that legitimate players are paying for the creator's oversight.

    It’s not exploiting. They participate in an event, get the minimum number of stacks needed to open the chest, and then stop participating until the loot phase. It’s no different than the examples given in this thread that exist elsewhere in the game.

    So are you saying the exploiters/leechers are blameless for this? You really think this is ok?

    Imagine if everyone in the instance did this... nothing would be achieved.

    That’s not what I’m saying. I just said that what they’re doing is in no way against the rules.

    So you also believe that those 60AP's they're so desperate for that they have to leech, are 'earned' as well?

    I really wish I could AFK for 60AP's... to anyone that's had to work for achievements, those AP's are gimme's.

    Just because you dont like it doesnt mean it is against the rules.

    The problem here is what's technically possible versus what's morally ambiguous.

    What ought to be taken away from this, is the classic 'just because you can doesn't mean you should'.

    Ehh may as well not bother, this thread is a dumpster fire.

  • Zephyr.5382Zephyr.5382 Member ✭✭✭

    FWIW, @Valandil Dragonhart.2371, I agree with your stance on the matter. I also can't get behind the logic of "let's let it slide because it's already rampant." Unless of course everyone's saying that we're already in a state of total anarchy, then, well...I can't say I disagree.

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Valandil Dragonhart.2371 said:
    Tired of it myself... reporting them makes it even more of a drag when they show up the next day and leech even more.

    I've forgotten how many people I've reported, but it's more than two dozen. The vast majority of which were at 303 mastery points and just there to claim an 'easy' 60AP.

    Ridiculous. Both the design of the minigame AND the 'players' (leeches) exploiting it.

    No action will be done though as they’re not violating any rules.

    Actually they're exploiting the game.

    Anet rushed the content and this is the price that legitimate players are paying for the creator's oversight.

    It’s not exploiting. They participate in an event, get the minimum number of stacks needed to open the chest, and then stop participating until the loot phase. It’s no different than the examples given in this thread that exist elsewhere in the game.

    So are you saying the exploiters/leechers are blameless for this? You really think this is ok?

    Imagine if everyone in the instance did this... nothing would be achieved.

    That’s not what I’m saying. I just said that what they’re doing is in no way against the rules.

    So you also believe that those 60AP's they're so desperate for that they have to leech, are 'earned' as well?

    I really wish I could AFK for 60AP's... to anyone that's had to work for achievements, those AP's are gimme's.

    Then you should. The event was designed to be afked or they wouldnt grant achievemnets with minimal participation. Sounds like you're unhappy with other peoples play styles because they're contrary to your own. At least I'm up front about contributing the bare minimum. For every one of me, there are 20 more players that pretend they're contributing to a meta because they're face rolling on the keyboard for the full duration. Reality check for you, those players contribute less in 10 minutes than I do in 1. Why arent you mad at those players? Just because the numbers arent in front of you and it looks like they're waving their hands in the air the whole time?

    If everyone afks and no events complete, guess what? No rewards are given out as to be expected. That's fine with me.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zephyr.5382 said:
    FWIW, @Valandil Dragonhart.2371, I agree with your stance on the matter. I also can't get behind the logic of "let's let it slide because it's already rampant." Unless of course everyone's saying that we're already in a state of total anarchy, then, well...I can't say I disagree.

    I think what most of them are getting at, is the event needs to be designed better and be more fun, also maybe have the event work 100% would be good too.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • I'm going to keep Electrify The Floor on the table.

    ...

  • Note that this does not mean that you cannot be away from your computer (AFK) while you are online. Idling in a city or even in the open world is not prohibited, though your character should not perform actions, participate in content, or otherwise engage with the world while you are away from your computer.

    From https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/360014185033-Policy-Unattended-Gameplay

    Additionally this article leads me to believe that "Botting" is the best option for reporting idle players in events.

  • Which just says you can go 'AFK' in the event for almost all the time, participate in one event or part thereof, and open the chest.
    If you think it means you can't be idle for most of the event, and then collect the rewards, it doesn't mean that. It means you can't use some kind of automation to play while you are actually away from the computer.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arlies.7456 said:

    Note that this does not mean that you cannot be away from your computer (AFK) while you are online. Idling in a city or even in the open world is not prohibited, though your character should not perform actions, participate in content, or otherwise engage with the world while you are away from your computer.

    From https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/360014185033-Policy-Unattended-Gameplay

    Additionally this article leads me to believe that "Botting" is the best option for reporting idle players in events.

    So to be clear you just posted a direct quote from official anet policy expressly allowing the behavior being complained of in this thread, then told ppl to report it anyway? You may want to continue to read a bit more extensively about the consequences making false reports :/

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭

    Getting mad at players who are idle seems pointless. This issues has a single solution that I see. Make the rewards for actually participating better than it is. Make it good enough that people WANT to do the challenge for the rewards not the AP and give the AP still. That way people who want the AP will still want to do the event for the loot. the AP is capped so its balanced already. The problem is the rewards are so bad that its irritating as you jump through the repetitive tasks so people dont care about the "reward" and just end up doing it to get the 60 AP. If the rewards didn't suck so bad people would do the tasks to get some rewards while they also get AP and everyone would actually be stoked. However, as we have it nobody is happy with the Challenge. Its really very simple and no point in players getting mad at each other over this. Its Anets failure not the players. The game shouldn't motivate people to go idle like this which is what this does.

    Its much easier to fix the game than change human nature.

  • Chichimec.9364Chichimec.9364 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2020

    Personally, I've been doing the Celestial Challenge daily because I like it. The rewards are so trivial that I barely notice them. Yeah, I've seen people standing around doing nothing but that has no effect on my enjoyment of running around doing the goofy challenges for a few minutes a day. So far I haven't seen any of the passive players mocking the folks actually playing the game. That might be minorly irritating to me but I'd just block that person and keep on playing. This is just me though. I generally don't pay much attention to how other people play the game.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chichimec.9364 said:
    Personally, I've been doing the Celestial Challenge daily because I like it. The rewards are so trivial that I barely notice them. Yeah, I've seen people standing around doing nothing but that has no effect on my enjoyment of running around doing the goofy challenges for a few minutes a day. So far I haven't seen any of the passive players mocking the folks actually playing the game. That might be minorly irritating to me but I'd just block that person and keep on playing. This is just me though. I generally don't pay much attention to how other people play the game.

    I nominate this for the most healthy, stable, mentally balanced post on the forum. Gratz :)

  • Chichimec.9364Chichimec.9364 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Chichimec.9364 said:
    Personally, I've been doing the Celestial Challenge daily because I like it. The rewards are so trivial that I barely notice them. Yeah, I've seen people standing around doing nothing but that has no effect on my enjoyment of running around doing the goofy challenges for a few minutes a day. So far I haven't seen any of the passive players mocking the folks actually playing the game. That might be minorly irritating to me but I'd just block that person and keep on playing. This is just me though. I generally don't pay much attention to how other people play the game.

    I nominate this for the most healthy, stable, mentally balanced post on the forum. Gratz :)

    rofl - Thank you. I've been called a lot of things in my day but "mentally balanced" is a new one. I like it! B)

  • Hashberry.4510Hashberry.4510 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2020

    But, but, they do 10x more damage just with their pinky finger!!!!
    The sun rises when they enter the zone!!! ;)

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    5 days left what I can say ? - .. don't be so toxic.
    People like drink tea, eat sweets, and do chill run. This is fest, but not CM raid run.
    If you realy want hard run - create squad, find people, find mirror map without any chill player, and port on them.
    And you will see how less people count interested in hard toxic run.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I had an argument with a guidie about this. He claimed it is perfectly ok for him to do one event and afk for the rest of the challenge. His main point was that "i do 25k dps in strikes, you do 12k, so you leech as well". An AP Hunter, 36k AP.

    The lengths people will go to defend their mentality...

  • Freeloaders have all sorts of excuses for their activities. Usually its to blame something else - other players, the game mechanics etc. They rarely admit that its their own fault for being self-centered and lazy.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thereon.3495 said:
    This kinda blew up without me! Bored at work so I read most of what has been said and the take home seems to be a minority agreeing with me and others trying to justify their actions with either "Its my playstyle to make others do more work" or "I'm not breaking the ToS so it's fine".

    This is an MMO and you play with real people. What you do in any game mode, in any challenge, directly affects other real life people. Saying you don't care about others in game is just an extension of who you must be outside of the game and that behaviour wouldn't be tolerated in the real world so why should it be in here? Whether it be CC, Dragon Ball, world events etc...you cannot justify making others do more work so you can sit around 'on your second monitor'. You make the event longer for others, taking others away from either other in-game events or even worse their real lives, just so you can be lazy and barely contribute. And you justify this with "Its not against the rules"?

    You just cannot justify these actions when you are causing others to do more work and whether ANET does anything about it or not it doesn't stop this from being a trashy way to treat fellow players.

    You are mistaken. I believe your error follows from a failure to consider the perspectives of other players. I'm sorry for you that the game doesn't work the way you want it to, but it doesn't . . .

  • Thereon.3495Thereon.3495 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2020

    @Gop.8713 said:
    You are mistaken. I believe your error follows from a failure to consider the perspectives of other players. I'm sorry for you that the game doesn't work the way you want it to, but it doesn't . . .

    Please explain how I am mistaken. I'm eager to hear how someone taking advantage of others is a 'perspective' and how you seem to think that this is my(our) problem for not accepting being taken advantage of.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thereon.3495 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    You are mistaken. I believe your error follows from a failure to consider the perspectives of other players. I'm sorry for you that the game doesn't work the way you want it to, but it doesn't . . .

    Please explain how I am mistaken. I'm eager to hear how someone taking advantage of others is a 'perspective' and how you seem to think that this is my(our) problem for not accepting being taken advantage of.

    Sure . . .

    No one is taking advantage of anyone. Players have different goals. Some players just want to open the chest, whether for daily, ap, just as a casual way to participate in the event or w/e. Other players are very fussed over getting max stacks, finishing as quickly as possible, etc. . . .

    If everyone was content to allow others to play as they choose, there would be no problem. But unfortunately, some players in the second group -- such as yourself -- feel entitled to force the players in the first group to play their way. If you prefer to interpret that as adversarial, then yes, players like you are behaving selfishly by trying to force your playstyle on the players around you. I prefer to believe that you simply haven't considered these other perspectives and are capable of change . . .

    But even if you personally as an individual come around to see that other players have as much right to the content as you do, there will ALWAYS be players who do not or cannot. So the best solution is for the ppl who develop the content to ensure that its design encourages players to work towards the same goals or at least be unaffected by the choices of other players. This event isn't terrible in that regard, but there have been many suggestions as to how it could be improved to that end, I'm certain anet could come up with even better ideas, and I'm equally certain you would also be able to contribute to that discussion if you choose to do so. Or you can keep insisting that everyone else should play in a manner that most benefits you. Your decision . . .

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's a microcosm of real life. There are always leechers, in game and out. People will inherently take the easiest path(s) for the greatest reward(s).

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Thereon.3495Thereon.3495 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:
    No one is taking advantage of anyone. Players have different goals. Some players just want to open the chest, whether for daily, ap, just as a casual way to participate in the event or w/e. Other players are very fussed over getting max stacks, finishing as quickly as possible, etc. . . .

    You deny taking advantage and yet in the same breath mention taking advantage, all the while calling it 'a different goal'. If we all had this 'different goal' then the event would not complete therefore it is not a goal. Not playing the game and having others carry you (wasting their time) is not a goal, nor is it a playstyle, nor any way to act in general. In game or outside of it.

    I feel like this conversation is going nowhere so this is where I leave you my friend for fear of a locked thread!

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Thereon.3495 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    You are mistaken. I believe your error follows from a failure to consider the perspectives of other players. I'm sorry for you that the game doesn't work the way you want it to, but it doesn't . . .

    Please explain how I am mistaken. I'm eager to hear how someone taking advantage of others is a 'perspective' and how you seem to think that this is my(our) problem for not accepting being taken advantage of.

    Sure . . .

    No one is taking advantage of anyone. Players have different goals. Some players just want to open the chest, whether for daily, ap, just as a casual way to participate in the event or w/e. Other players are very fussed over getting max stacks, finishing as quickly as possible, etc. . . .

    If everyone was content to allow others to play as they choose, there would be no problem. But unfortunately, some players in the second group -- such as yourself -- feel entitled to force the players in the first group to play their way. If you prefer to interpret that as adversarial, then yes, players like you are behaving selfishly by trying to force your playstyle on the players around you. I prefer to believe that you simply haven't considered these other perspectives and are capable of change . . .

    But even if you personally as an individual come around to see that other players have as much right to the content as you do, there will ALWAYS be players who do not or cannot. So the best solution is for the ppl who develop the content to ensure that its design encourages players to work towards the same goals or at least be unaffected by the choices of other players. This event isn't terrible in that regard, but there have been many suggestions as to how it could be improved to that end, I'm certain anet could come up with even better ideas, and I'm equally certain you would also be able to contribute to that discussion if you choose to do so. Or you can keep insisting that everyone else should play in a manner that most benefits you. Your decision . . .

    You use an awful lot of words to twist the meaning of leeching.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    It's a microcosm of real life. There are always leechers, in game and out. People will inherently take the easiest path(s) for the greatest reward(s).

    Yes. Yes it is.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thereon.3495 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    No one is taking advantage of anyone. Players have different goals. Some players just want to open the chest, whether for daily, ap, just as a casual way to participate in the event or w/e. Other players are very fussed over getting max stacks, finishing as quickly as possible, etc. . . .

    You deny taking advantage and yet in the same breath mention taking advantage, all the while calling it 'a different goal'. If we all had this 'different goal' then the event would not complete therefore it is not a goal. Not playing the game and having others carry you (wasting their time) is not a goal, nor is it a playstyle, nor any way to act in general. In game or outside of it.

    I feel like this conversation is going nowhere so this is where I leave you my friend for fear of a locked thread!

    Again, the reason you feel this way is bc you are not considering the perspective of the other players. You argue that players who choose to tag the event for a single stack of the buff which, by event design, allows them to open the chest are 'wasting your time', yet you remain oblivious to the fact that forcing them to aid you in your efforts to finish faster would waste their time . . .

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Thereon.3495 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    You are mistaken. I believe your error follows from a failure to consider the perspectives of other players. I'm sorry for you that the game doesn't work the way you want it to, but it doesn't . . .

    Please explain how I am mistaken. I'm eager to hear how someone taking advantage of others is a 'perspective' and how you seem to think that this is my(our) problem for not accepting being taken advantage of.

    Sure . . .

    No one is taking advantage of anyone. Players have different goals. Some players just want to open the chest, whether for daily, ap, just as a casual way to participate in the event or w/e. Other players are very fussed over getting max stacks, finishing as quickly as possible, etc. . . .

    If everyone was content to allow others to play as they choose, there would be no problem. But unfortunately, some players in the second group -- such as yourself -- feel entitled to force the players in the first group to play their way. If you prefer to interpret that as adversarial, then yes, players like you are behaving selfishly by trying to force your playstyle on the players around you. I prefer to believe that you simply haven't considered these other perspectives and are capable of change . . .

    But even if you personally as an individual come around to see that other players have as much right to the content as you do, there will ALWAYS be players who do not or cannot. So the best solution is for the ppl who develop the content to ensure that its design encourages players to work towards the same goals or at least be unaffected by the choices of other players. This event isn't terrible in that regard, but there have been many suggestions as to how it could be improved to that end, I'm certain anet could come up with even better ideas, and I'm equally certain you would also be able to contribute to that discussion if you choose to do so. Or you can keep insisting that everyone else should play in a manner that most benefits you. Your decision . . .


    You use an awful lot of words to twist the meaning of leeching.

    I'm sorry if it was too much for you. Simply pointing out that the other players in the game are not obliged to play in a manner contrary to their interests for your benefit did not appear to be clear enough so I offered further explanation, bc I think you're worth it. Note that this is also not something that you are owed or entitled to . . .

    Perhaps it might help me to understand your perspective better if you used more words to explain why you feel I should be entitled to force my play preferences onto you . . .

    @Venom.4057 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Thereon.3495 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    You are mistaken. I believe your error follows from a failure to consider the perspectives of other players. I'm sorry for you that the game doesn't work the way you want it to, but it doesn't . . .

    Please explain how I am mistaken. I'm eager to hear how someone taking advantage of others is a 'perspective' and how you seem to think that this is my(our) problem for not accepting being taken advantage of.

    Sure . . .

    No one is taking advantage of anyone. Players have different goals. Some players just want to open the chest, whether for daily, ap, just as a casual way to participate in the event or w/e. Other players are very fussed over getting max stacks, finishing as quickly as possible, etc. . . .

    If everyone was content to allow others to play as they choose, there would be no problem. But unfortunately, some players in the second group -- such as yourself -- feel entitled to force the players in the first group to play their way. If you prefer to interpret that as adversarial, then yes, players like you are behaving selfishly by trying to force your playstyle on the players around you. I prefer to believe that you simply haven't considered these other perspectives and are capable of change . . .

    But even if you personally as an individual come around to see that other players have as much right to the content as you do, there will ALWAYS be players who do not or cannot. So the best solution is for the ppl who develop the content to ensure that its design encourages players to work towards the same goals or at least be unaffected by the choices of other players. This event isn't terrible in that regard, but there have been many suggestions as to how it could be improved to that end, I'm certain anet could come up with even better ideas, and I'm equally certain you would also be able to contribute to that discussion if you choose to do so. Or you can keep insisting that everyone else should play in a manner that most benefits you. Your decision . . .

    Are you just trolling or simply stupid?

    I would like to believe that I simply have a broader perspective, but I am beginning to think it may be that I'm just not as selfish as a lot of players . . .

  • I agree it sucks, but the way the game is set up, if you join a game already in progress, you were not able to complete all the tasks. If they require people to have participated from the beginning, it means that people who the game added in late get nothing, and have no reason to stay, making it even harder on the ones actually participating.

    Or should everyone have to try to replay and quit over and over again until they are added to a game with enough time left that they will actually get credit, just so you don't have to see a few lazy leechers?

    I totally agree with the problem, but this is a case of the cure being worse than the disease.

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2020

    @Thereon.3495 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    No one is taking advantage of anyone. Players have different goals. Some players just want to open the chest, whether for daily, ap, just as a casual way to participate in the event or w/e. Other players are very fussed over getting max stacks, finishing as quickly as possible, etc. . . .

    You deny taking advantage and yet in the same breath mention taking advantage, all the while calling it 'a different goal'. If we all had this 'different goal' then the event would not complete therefore it is not a goal. Not playing the game and having others carry you (wasting their time) is not a goal, nor is it a playstyle, nor any way to act in general. In game or outside of it.

    I feel like this conversation is going nowhere so this is where I leave you my friend for fear of a locked thread!

    It is a goal. The goal is to maximize rewards by putting in the least amount of effort possible. I accomplish my goal if I tag one mob and get gold rewards. That is a perfectly legitimate goal to have in game. I am not forcing you to do anything you dont already want to do. You were going to complete the event whether or not I tagged something. You're also more than welcome to leave the instance and not complete the event for me. I'm not forcing you to stay. There are 100 other players that will take your place.

    It is also open worldish content where all players including myself are welcome. Who the hell gatekeeps open world? If you want the ability to boot players out of CC you should ask anet for those tools.