Consume Plasma --> BROKEN!!?? <--

[Safandula.8723]

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Axelteas.7192 said:The skills stolen from a elementalist and revenant are absolutely useless, so the plasma is there to compensate.

How is rev stolen skill garbage

It's a long-cast, slow-moving projectile that can cancel itself if you rotate the camera. You have to get extremely lucky to land it.

5k hits from range, 2 in row with improv, with decent projectile speed. Seems legit to me. Playing as thief is basicly bait game, so this bait that can potentially take 1/4th of hp is pretty gucci

[DAN.7314]

I think most thief stolen skills in PvP need an upgrade. Most of them are near worthless. A lot of stolen skills need to be channeled, and a few you need to be within melee range, in addition to channeling them, to use. As a thief this is a good way to die. Thieves are squishy. Not being able to be mobile, to channel a skill in melee range is a no-no. Especially when some of the stolen skills have little pay off.

-Guardian/elementalist/necro stolen skills are the three biggest ones that fall into this category. Need to be in/near melee range, and even when the stolen skill lands it's not a game-breaker. Especially with elementalist. Elementalist is the stolen skill I generally don't even bother using. Necro fear is nice, but staying in melee range verse a necro for longer then an instant is a great way to die. The fear is great to bring to a +1 or team fight and use as an opener though before the enemy is focused on you. The stun from guardian is nice, but requires a good setup to use it in melee range, and hope they don't have any more stunbreaks. The guardian stun is nice, but very difficult to land if you are getting focused on.

-Engineer/rev are alright just because they have a 900 range, but neither are very powerful. The engineer stolen skill can be nice if thrown in the middle of a mid fight, but the conditions are random and most team fights will have plenty of condi removal. Also very easy to dodge by moving a few steps away. Rev skill only lasts one second and only requires one condi removal. Pretty worthless.

-Ranger is an ok way to remove a condi or two, and can be useful to lay in the middle of a team fight on mid, but 1v1 it's pretty worthless as you have to stay in one spot to get any benefit over 1 tick (which would mean a non mobile thief = bad). If it removed more conditions it might be useful, but most classes give 3+ conditions at once, so it's not very helpful. Especially considering you have to be very close to it to get the benefit.

-The stealth stolen skill from another thief is alright, but most thieves already have access to stealth, so it's pretty redundant.

-Warrior/Mes are the only two I really like. The whirlwind of warrior is like a mini elite skill, and the projectile reflect is very useful. Doesn't do as much damage as elite skill, but is good for the projectile reflect and some good AoE DPS. Mesmer is generally the main one to shoot for though. It doesn't directly do any damage when used, but as with boonbeast and other boon heavy builds it gives thieves some access to a bunch of boons to give or deflect damage. I can't imagine nerfing this skill when other classes have access to so many boons on demand whenever they want, and thieves really only have consume plasma, which they have to work to get and steal from a mesmer. If any stolen skill is overpowered, it would be the consume plasma. I think there are a ton of problems with other classes that would take a much higher priority then nerfing consume plasma though. Thief is kind of a wet noodle asides for mobility and stealth, and stealth really needs to get nerfed/reworked for all classes.

[sephiroth.4217]

@DAN.7314 said:I think most thief stolen skills in PvP need an upgrade. Most of them are near worthless. A lot of stolen skills need to be channeled, and a few you need to be within melee range, in addition to channeling them, to use. As a thief this is a good way to die. Thieves are squishy. Not being able to be mobile, to channel a skill in melee range is a no-no. Especially when some of the stolen skills have little pay off.

-Guardian/elementalist/necro stolen skills are the three biggest ones that fall into this category. Need to be in/near melee range, and even when the stolen skill lands it's not a game-breaker. Especially with elementalist. Elementalist is the stolen skill I generally don't even bother using. Necro fear is nice, but staying in melee range verse a necro for longer then an instant is a great way to die. The fear is great to bring to a +1 or team fight and use as an opener though before the enemy is focused on you. The stun from guardian is nice, but requires a good setup to use it in melee range, and hope they don't have any more stunbreaks. The guardian stun is nice, but very difficult to land if you are getting focused on.

-Engineer/rev are alright just because they have a 900 range, but neither are very powerful. The engineer stolen skill can be nice if thrown in the middle of a mid fight, but the conditions are random and most team fights will have plenty of condi removal. Also very easy to dodge by moving a few steps away. Rev skill only lasts one second and only requires one condi removal. Pretty worthless.

-Ranger is an ok way to remove a condi or two, and can be useful to lay in the middle of a team fight on mid, but 1v1 it's pretty worthless as you have to stay in one spot to get any benefit over 1 tick (which would mean a non mobile thief = bad). If it removed more conditions it might be useful, but most classes give 3+ conditions at once, so it's not very helpful. Especially considering you have to be very close to it to get the benefit.

-The stealth stolen skill from another thief is alright, but most thieves already have access to stealth, so it's pretty redundant.

-Warrior/Mes are the only two I really like. The whirlwind of warrior is like a mini elite skill, and the projectile reflect is very useful. Doesn't do as much damage as elite skill, but is good for the projectile reflect and some good AoE DPS. Mesmer is generally the main one to shoot for though. It doesn't directly do any damage when used, but as with boonbeast and other boon heavy builds it gives thieves some access to a bunch of boons to give or deflect damage. I can't imagine nerfing this skill when other classes have access to so many boons on demand whenever they want, and thieves really only have consume plasma, which they have to work to get and steal from a mesmer. If any stolen skill is overpowered, it would be the consume plasma. I think there are a ton of problems with other classes that would take a much higher priority then nerfing consume plasma though. Thief is kind of a wet noodle asides for mobility and stealth, and stealth really needs to get nerfed/reworked for all classes.

In comparison it's OP yes.

But we look at Core Elementalist, Tempest and Weaver for damage, Weaver is OP in comparison but it doesn't justify nerfs when looking at the whole picture.If anything in regards to thief steals, its the other stolen skills that could actually use a buff as you have kindly pointed out with your explanations of each steal...

Ele steal could be a projectile or mini ice storm or something for example, would have been OP in core days but now days it would move the status from garbage to weak but useful.

[dDuff.3860]

Also, nerf pls dagger storm, give steal 0.5 sec cast time, and delete deadeye ofc.

[FyzE.3472]

How to distract people from mesmer.Step one: create a subtle complain thread about a class that was hated before.Step two: provide close to no argumentsStep three: enjoy the fruit of your work

[Vieux P.1238]

If Consume Plasma is so useless, why is it so overused? Why use it if it's not worth it?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Vieux P.1238 said:If Consume Plasma is so useless, why is it so overused? Why use it if it's not worth it?

It's not useless and gives some decent boons and as a thief u take what u can get these days to battle powercreep so why not use it when u can? Majority of steal skills are a complete joke and is just a buy product of stealing which due to a few traits make the act more useful than the reward unfortunately

[Quadox.7834]

@FyzE.3472 said:How to distract people from mesmer.Step one: create a subtle complain thread about a class that was hated before.Step two: provide close to no argumentsStep three: enjoy the fruit of your work.

Of course, because your comment is so substantive.

I created the thread because last thread about plasma got closed due to mesmers and thieves throwing insults and derailing.

If you read the comments in this thread I have almost written a fucking essay by this point, you are just being disrespectful.

[Quadox.7834]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Vieux P.1238" said:If Consume Plasma is so useless, why is it so overused? Why use it if it's not worth it?

It's not useless and gives some decent boons and as a thief u take what u can get these days to battle powercreep so why not use it when u can? Majority of steal skills are a complete joke and is just a bu product of stealing which due to a few traits make the act more useful than the reward unfortunately

Yeah all boons in the game, x2, on a <20 second cooldown. "Decent".

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Vieux P.1238" said:If Consume Plasma is so useless, why is it so overused? Why use it if it's not worth it?

It's not useless and gives some decent boons and as a thief u take what u can get these days to battle powercreep so why not use it when u can? Majority of steal skills are a complete joke and is just a bu product of stealing which due to a few traits make the act more useful than the reward unfortunately

Yeah all boons in the game, x2, on a <20 second cooldown. "Decent".

Yeah a class that's not really a great self or party boon giver can give itself the the full set of boons only by stealing from one specific class if it is successful whith its steal to begin with is so OP lol c'mon. I like mesmer but lately with all the posts popping up about specific things that are strong or useful against them stating their OP. U guys do realize there is going to be some skill or traits etc that will be useful against mesmers right,as there is for every class. It's like u guys expect to either be on equal ground or at an advantage against every spec,if not BAM there's a new thread stating its OP or unfair to mesmers lmao ×2 only applies if running improv which alot dont so...

[Quadox.7834]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Vieux P.1238" said:If Consume Plasma is so useless, why is it so overused? Why use it if it's not worth it?

It's not useless and gives some decent boons and as a thief u take what u can get these days to battle powercreep so why not use it when u can? Majority of steal skills are a complete joke and is just a bu product of stealing which due to a few traits make the act more useful than the reward unfortunately

Yeah all boons in the game, x2, on a <20 second cooldown. "Decent".

Yeah a class that's not really a great self or party boon giver can give itself the the full set of boons only by stealing from one specific class if it is successful whith its steal to begin with is so OP lol c'mon. I like mesmer but lately with all the posts popping up about specific things that are strong or useful against them stating their OP. U guys do realize there is going to be some skill or traits etc that will be useful against mirages right,as there is for every class. It's like u guys expect to either be on equal ground or at an advantage against every spec,if not BAM there's a new thread stating its OP or unfair to mirages lmao ×2 only applies if running improv which alot dont so...

I don't even play mirage, esp not condi. Plasma is not just good vs mesmer, it is good vs everyone. Everyone runs improv (on meta/viable builds).

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Vieux P.1238" said:If Consume Plasma is so useless, why is it so overused? Why use it if it's not worth it?

It's not useless and gives some decent boons and as a thief u take what u can get these days to battle powercreep so why not use it when u can? Majority of steal skills are a complete joke and is just a bu product of stealing which due to a few traits make the act more useful than the reward unfortunately

Yeah all boons in the game, x2, on a <20 second cooldown. "Decent".

Yeah a class that's not really a great self or party boon giver can give itself the the full set of boons only by stealing from one specific class if it is successful whith its steal to begin with is so OP lol c'mon. I like mesmer but lately with all the posts popping up about specific things that are strong or useful against them stating their OP. U guys do realize there is going to be some skill or traits etc that will be useful against mirages right,as there is for every class. It's like u guys expect to either be on equal ground or at an advantage against every spec,if not BAM there's a new thread stating its OP or unfair to mirages lmao ×2 only applies if running improv which alot dont so...

I don't even play mirage, esp not condi.

I'm sry lol mesmer or chrono still same class

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Vieux P.1238" said:If Consume Plasma is so useless, why is it so overused? Why use it if it's not worth it?

It's not useless and gives some decent boons and as a thief u take what u can get these days to battle powercreep so why not use it when u can? Majority of steal skills are a complete joke and is just a bu product of stealing which due to a few traits make the act more useful than the reward unfortunately

Yeah all boons in the game, x2, on a <20 second cooldown. "Decent".

Yeah a class that's not really a great self or party boon giver can give itself the the full set of boons only by stealing from one specific class if it is successful whith its steal to begin with is so OP lol c'mon. I like mesmer but lately with all the posts popping up about specific things that are strong or useful against them stating their OP. U guys do realize there is going to be some skill or traits etc that will be useful against mirages right,as there is for every class. It's like u guys expect to either be on equal ground or at an advantage against every spec,if not BAM there's a new thread stating its OP or unfair to mirages lmao ×2 only applies if running improv which alot dont so...

I don't even play mirage, esp not condi.

Yet ur in almost every thread if seen regarding the class. Sry I'll say mesmer so it covers the specific spec u play

[Jables.4659]

This is kind of an old thread, but I agree with the OP to an extent. Thief already counters Mesmer. The only thing consume plasma really needs to do is give resistance and perhaps, protection/regen. Consume plasma (with a name change) would be a better fit for the guardian stolen skill. Guardian hard counters thief in most build matchups, so this would help to balance the scales a bit. I would also revamp the other stolen skills to make them more useful against the classes they're stolen from. Off the top of my head (the final result would obviously involve more tuning/thought), ranger would give a short axe whirl that reflects projectiles, warrior would give a stun break, engineer would give a throwable offensive elixer that rips boons, necromancer would give condi transfer or barrier, Revenant's is probably fine as is, and I honestly have no clue what to do with ele.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Ralkuth.1456 said:I've had a burning question since launch. Thieves steal Plasma from Mesmers right? Where does this piece of virility essence come from? Is it like some dangling fruit that grows behind the Mesmer's head or something? If it's filthy blood plasma from some really diseased Mesmer dude, won't you get aids from consuming it? Is that why Mesmers themselves never had the chance to eat it?

Out of all the stolen items this one made the least sense to me.

I want aprils fools where consume plasma gives thief all the conditions in the game XD

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@"FyzE.3472" said:How to distract people from mesmer.Step one: create a subtle complain thread about a class that was hated before.Step two: provide close to no argumentsStep three: enjoy the fruit of your work.

Of course, because your comment is so substantive.

I created the thread because last thread about plasma got closed due to mesmers and thieves throwing insults and derailing.

If you read the comments in this thread I have almost written a kitten essay by this point, you are just being disrespectful.

hes just a

:D

[viquing.8254]

Wait, did they want to remove boon thief ?

[Zexanima.7851]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Ralkuth.1456" said:I've had a burning question since launch. Thieves steal Plasma from Mesmers right? Where does this piece of virility essence

come

from? Is it like some dangling fruit that grows behind the Mesmer's head or something? If it's filthy blood plasma from some really diseased Mesmer dude, won't you get aids from consuming it? Is that why Mesmers themselves never had the chance to eat it?

Out of all the stolen items this one made the least sense to me.

I want aprils fools where consume plasma gives thief all the conditions in the game XD

This sounds like a fun idea. All the professions should get something. Mesmer's shatters affect its self. Warrior's burst would heal the target. Guardian's virtues would apply conditions to allies. Rev's legends effects are all swapped with other legends but keep the original visuals. Ranger's pet would constantly be attacking it. All engi's toolbelt skills are replaced with "throw rock". Necro's shroud would constantly drain the necro's actual health. Ele's attunement swapping always applies chill.

[Burnfall.9573]

@TorQ.7041 said:You meant this is the only edge a thief has over any class and you want to remove that too?

Everything in Thief Profession need to be removed which is only by a complete redesigned from the ground up.

In other word, Thief Profession in its design is severely broken and the only remedy to their Toxic behavior is to completely rework them

There is no other way, PERIOD!!

[Tycura.1982]

Must be a necromancer to bring this thread back

Ever seen a fight between two people you didn't care for and regardless of the result you're there for the entertainment? Yeah hehe

Rogue op big plasma moves

[Quadox.7834]

So in this last patch they rebalance thief bundles yet still do nothing about plasma...

[MyPuppy.8970]

I wonder why consume plasma hasn't been touched. Maybe reduce the boons durations by 60%?