Whats my role as a Mesmer now in sPvP? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Whats my role as a Mesmer now in sPvP?

Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭✭

Legit question, i can't get anything done right now to squishy to hold points don't have enough burst to kill any light target, I can't shut down healers (maybe i should get moa?). So i go and assist team fights i can't execute anything without help going in to execute a down state gets me killed so i end up off point spaming IH and autos to try to get downed guy or stop other guy from getting downed guy that generally i large part of the time i this takes way to long to do and i end up getting hit up by the enemy anyways thus forcing me to disengage. I don't die but nothing gets done the cycle continues and i lose the game.

So there are plat ranked mesmers in the game so there clearly something that i'm not doing in the larger scale of the game should i focus less on fighting and more on capping and decaping because it feels like my team fight presences is absolutely worthless and if theres even a slight aoe cleanse i just end up standing waiting for cds to rotate doing IH with illusions which isnt getting anything done.

This isn't a troll i seriously frustrated right now only time i win fights are in landslide victories where they guy(s) im fighting clearly has no understanding of how my class mechanics work.

Also are there any classes im supposed to beat only one i seem to have an noticeably easier time vs is a weaver.
Last note i'm using a staple mirage condition build, and i often swap out to use axe/torch wand/pistol

For those on the forums who advocate for the removal of duo queues in Spvp, realize your actions over the past 7 years has destroyed gw2 Spvp and thinking doing the same thing again is a good idea after several years of it not working crazy. Get better at pvp.

Comments

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Genesis.5169
    My peak was low plat 2 so take what I have to say with a grain of salt. There are MUCH MUCH better mesmers out there.
    My opinion is that.
    1 Thief is op as kitten. Thief happens to hard counter mesmer, and thus mesmer is kitten out of luck.
    2 WHat you can and cannot do depends HEAVILY on oponent team composition. And you should choose your build specifically against them.

    • Condi mes is good into : warrior, rev,necro
    • Power mes is good into other mesmers,firebrands,necro
      Both condi and power mes are good into tools holo and bad into prot holo.
      All mesmers suck against weavers, rangers of all kinds ( condi mes wins 1v1 but ranger doesnt 1v1 it roams and +1 you or kitten on you during teamfights )
      Prot holo kitten on both condi and power. Thief of any kind kitten on mesmer of any kind.
      Rev is good into power mes and medicore/bad into condi mes.
      You gotta take right build into the right team composition, unforutnately you cant do what everyone does and play 1 build and call it a day becouse one game core power is good and the other cmes is much better.

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAEx/lJwmYcsLGKOSLenTA-zZIPlMFC9KC6XBUwEwEDA
    this is 1shot core that I usually play.
    thing to note about this build is. Its not hard to land the combo. Its hard to know when, where, on who and what to do afterwards.
    It has more sustain damage then other 1shot variants other play due to eagle rune and sigil of enchanc on gs.
    Its good soloq build.
    For condi mes there is many variation so its hard to post, I dont even know if staff or axe is better, both feel like kitten tbh.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2020

    You have currently 3 "playable" build. (playable didn't mean meta but btw.) :
    In the most efficient order IMO :

    1) Condi mirage

    The only build I saw played by mesmers in last monthly tournament.
    The usual condi mirage with staff,scepter/pistol.
    A duellist build, you will not anticap with this but you will manage one opponent long enough, waiting for a +1 to come. If you have a bad matchup, you will leave a portal to put some pressure elsewhere during ~20 sec, and if you are in a team you can portal play with teamate to improve rotations.
    The key is to know how to go out of the point to stay alive by kitting.

    Pro : good surviving tools, portal utility.
    Cons : very slow setup to pressure opponent.

    2) Power mirage

    The build you can see played by Jazz on his multiples vids.
    It's basically a roaming builds who will rotate between points, putting pressure where it's needed with kisscool skills with one utility dedicated to IoL, portal or high pressure with MoP.
    It also can do a CC wave with sword ambush spam in critical moments.
    And ofc can be really efficient if you rupt opponents key skills.

    Pro : good pressure, can win quickly a fight thanks to rupt on key skills, one team utility.
    Cons : require really low ping to rupt effectively, low survival options once someone decide to focus you, vulnerable to conditions.

    3) Core burst

    A +1 build who can load high amont of damage with nice mobility thanks to manipulation mastery. The key is to know the right time to burst with the right position to lock the opponent.

    Pro : can kill someone in 1,5 sec every 15 sec.
    Cons : we are facing thieves with better stealth uptime, there is many random aoe and passive effects who will nullify your burst (weakness auto-proc for example.), very bad pressure at distance as attacks are all telegraphied, vulnerable to conditions.

    Now in reality :
    We are in a thief meta. They can't be lock (even if you rup them, they can still launch their skills without counterpart after being rupt.), they have plasma, they have better mobility, better steath uptime and better DPS.
    Which basically mean that as they counter direct damage mesmer since 2012, it's ever the case and you will never win with a power mirage or core burst build versus a good thief (Hopefully, there is plethora of thieves who aren't that good, and for example, who cast 2 dagger in smoke field in a MoD range....).
    Which leave condi mirage as the most "viable" build with the few more second alive it give you thanks to chaos armor weakness and staff 2.
    And even with that, in the last mAt final, you can see misha as the first kill and who regulary get killed.

    So imo the best you can do currently is to play the condi duellist build, no getting killed by doing rotation and putting portal and hopping that a teamate will regulary +1 you. (That's also why misha is in top 10 by duoQing with +1 thief and why the first mesmer soloQing is far away in ladder.)
    Or you can play for fun with the 2 other builds but you can't realisticly climb with theses as long as the meta is around thieves.

  • tldr: mesmer is kitten atm.

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    go with condi mirage
    your role is rather flexible but focus on map control, you are 2nd fastest class so use this to force rotations of the enemy
    it's strong 1v1er, sidenoder, great reset potential, great mobility

    it's a competitive sidenoder in this meta, along side spellbreaker and weaver
    thieves in this meta kill anything, not just mirage. I would argue if anything mirage has the tools to survive +1 from thieves better than other classes (some maps better than others). Since it's mostly ranged attacks you can safely do so from no-ports to survive killing machines like thieves and revs. You can use portal or stealth and the mobility attached to mirage to survive any fight, and pick any new fight or node you want.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2020

    @Koen.1327 Saying that condi mirage is secound fastest class is plain wrong.
    Warrior is faster, rev is faster, thief is faster, ranger of any kind is faster too.
    heck even reaper moves faster around the map.
    You can kind cheat it by placing portal but it dissapears so fast that 80% of the time you cant even do anything with the time it buys.

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Koen.1327 Saying that condi mirage is secound fastest class is plain wrong.
    Warrior is faster, rev is faster, thief is faster, ranger of any kind is faster too.
    heck even reaper moves faster around the map.
    You can kind cheat it by placing portal but it dissapears so fast that 80% of the time you cant even do anything with the time it buys.

    no class can move faster from node to node except thief
    on capricorn warrior and rangers have the advantage, but all other maps have ledges mesmer can just bypass
    maybe i should've been more specific, but in the context of conquest instant ports around the map, so it be high ground or low, is fast in my opnion. Not as in, a warrior is running away from you have the mobility (but mostly dmg) to kill him

    in addition there's many tools to boost your mobility or ability to force rotation. MoM, 3rd utility to pick portal, stealth, mimic - i pick mom + midnight or minic most of the time

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2020

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Koen.1327 Saying that condi mirage is secound fastest class is plain wrong.
    Warrior is faster, rev is faster, thief is faster, ranger of any kind is faster too.
    heck even reaper moves faster around the map.
    You can kind cheat it by placing portal but it dissapears so fast that 80% of the time you cant even do anything with the time it buys.

    no class can move faster from node to node except thief
    on capricorn warrior and rangers have the advantage, but all other maps have ledges mesmer can just bypass
    maybe i should've been more specific, but in the context of conquest instant ports around the map, so it be high ground or low, is fast in my opnion. Not as in, a warrior is running away from you have the mobility (but mostly dmg) to kill him

    in addition there's many tools to boost your mobility or ability to force rotation. MoM, 3rd utility to pick portal, stealth, mimic - i pick mom + midnight or minic most of the time

    Having Kitting tools is different from having map mobility.
    Mesmer have blink for long distance and sword ambush and that's it. Every class who can maintain swiftness will globally have better base mobility add to this superspeed or gab closer/teleport, that explain why class listed by leonidrex have better mobility.
    I didn't know a plat mesmer using mimic.
    Taking MoM drop too much duelling efficiency in the condi build.

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Koen.1327 Saying that condi mirage is secound fastest class is plain wrong.
    Warrior is faster, rev is faster, thief is faster, ranger of any kind is faster too.
    heck even reaper moves faster around the map.
    You can kind cheat it by placing portal but it dissapears so fast that 80% of the time you cant even do anything with the time it buys.

    no class can move faster from node to node except thief
    on capricorn warrior and rangers have the advantage, but all other maps have ledges mesmer can just bypass
    maybe i should've been more specific, but in the context of conquest instant ports around the map, so it be high ground or low, is fast in my opnion. Not as in, a warrior is running away from you have the mobility (but mostly dmg) to kill him

    in addition there's many tools to boost your mobility or ability to force rotation. MoM, 3rd utility to pick portal, stealth, mimic - i pick mom + midnight or minic most of the time

    Having Kitting tools is different from having map mobility.
    Mesmer have blink for long distance and sword ambush and that's it. Every class who can maintain swiftness will globally have better base mobility add to this superspeed or gab closer/teleport, that explain why class listed by leonidrex have better mobility.
    I didn't know a plat mesmer using mimic.
    Taking MoM drop too much duelling efficiency in the condi build.

    ye, a blink is enough on most maps in most games to secure a decap and force someone to 1v1 you - i didn't mean anything else when trying to explain what role mirage can take with the mobility it has
    i use MoM combined with midnight or mimic 99% of the time and i'm nearing plat 3 (2nd highest mesmer right now after misha btw), so they do well carrying a mediocre player like me. Also helio has used mimic on stream, which i stole it from ofc, i think he's 4x god of pvp by now.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2020

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Koen.1327 Saying that condi mirage is secound fastest class is plain wrong.
    Warrior is faster, rev is faster, thief is faster, ranger of any kind is faster too.
    heck even reaper moves faster around the map.
    You can kind cheat it by placing portal but it dissapears so fast that 80% of the time you cant even do anything with the time it buys.

    no class can move faster from node to node except thief
    on capricorn warrior and rangers have the advantage, but all other maps have ledges mesmer can just bypass
    maybe i should've been more specific, but in the context of conquest instant ports around the map, so it be high ground or low, is fast in my opnion. Not as in, a warrior is running away from you have the mobility (but mostly dmg) to kill him

    in addition there's many tools to boost your mobility or ability to force rotation. MoM, 3rd utility to pick portal, stealth, mimic - i pick mom + midnight or minic most of the time

    Having Kitting tools is different from having map mobility.
    Mesmer have blink for long distance and sword ambush and that's it. Every class who can maintain swiftness will globally have better base mobility add to this superspeed or gab closer/teleport, that explain why class listed by leonidrex have better mobility.
    I didn't know a plat mesmer using mimic.
    Taking MoM drop too much duelling efficiency in the condi build.

    ye, a blink is enough on most maps in most games to secure a decap and force someone to 1v1 you - i didn't mean anything else when trying to explain what role mirage can take with the mobility it has
    i use MoM combined with midnight or mimic 99% of the time and i'm nearing plat 3 (2nd highest mesmer right now after misha btw), so they do well carrying a mediocre player like me. Also helio has used mimic on stream, which i stole it from ofc, i think he's 4x god of pvp by now.

    I was at your rating last week before I did some builds testing.
    Taking MoM in the case of condi build mean be less usefull at duelling on point, and as a duellist with very slow setup, you don't need to move faster to points. Mean why move faster on next point if you can't pressure it ?
    edited : Taking mimic mean having a 48 cd blink.
    Mean on the paper, I'm really surprised that you perform this good with this setup. I will test it more in details.

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Koen.1327 Saying that condi mirage is secound fastest class is plain wrong.
    Warrior is faster, rev is faster, thief is faster, ranger of any kind is faster too.
    heck even reaper moves faster around the map.
    You can kind cheat it by placing portal but it dissapears so fast that 80% of the time you cant even do anything with the time it buys.

    no class can move faster from node to node except thief
    on capricorn warrior and rangers have the advantage, but all other maps have ledges mesmer can just bypass
    maybe i should've been more specific, but in the context of conquest instant ports around the map, so it be high ground or low, is fast in my opnion. Not as in, a warrior is running away from you have the mobility (but mostly dmg) to kill him

    in addition there's many tools to boost your mobility or ability to force rotation. MoM, 3rd utility to pick portal, stealth, mimic - i pick mom + midnight or minic most of the time

    Having Kitting tools is different from having map mobility.
    Mesmer have blink for long distance and sword ambush and that's it. Every class who can maintain swiftness will globally have better base mobility add to this superspeed or gab closer/teleport, that explain why class listed by leonidrex have better mobility.
    I didn't know a plat mesmer using mimic.
    Taking MoM drop too much duelling efficiency in the condi build.

    ye, a blink is enough on most maps in most games to secure a decap and force someone to 1v1 you - i didn't mean anything else when trying to explain what role mirage can take with the mobility it has
    i use MoM combined with midnight or mimic 99% of the time and i'm nearing plat 3 (2nd highest mesmer right now after misha btw), so they do well carrying a mediocre player like me. Also helio has used mimic on stream, which i stole it from ofc, i think he's 4x god of pvp by now.

    I was at your rating last week before I did some builds testing.
    Taking MoM in the case of condi build mean be less usefull at duelling on point, and as a duellist with very slow setup, you don't need to move faster to points. Mean why move faster on next point if you can't pressure it ?
    edited : Taking mimic mean having a 48 cd blink.
    Mean on the paper, I'm really surprised that you perform this good with this setup. I will test it more in details.

    i know and there is plenty other better mesmers or players in general
    for less experienced players like myself, MoM offers great survivabilty and mobility.
    the 48 sec blink, might not seem much but it means you survive any +1 or even +2 if its thieves.
    theres 5 enemies, 3 nodes with low cooldowns, rotate until you win
    I use midnight most of the time though

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Koen.1327 Saying that condi mirage is secound fastest class is plain wrong.
    Warrior is faster, rev is faster, thief is faster, ranger of any kind is faster too.
    heck even reaper moves faster around the map.
    You can kind cheat it by placing portal but it dissapears so fast that 80% of the time you cant even do anything with the time it buys.

    no class can move faster from node to node except thief
    on capricorn warrior and rangers have the advantage, but all other maps have ledges mesmer can just bypass
    maybe i should've been more specific, but in the context of conquest instant ports around the map, so it be high ground or low, is fast in my opnion. Not as in, a warrior is running away from you have the mobility (but mostly dmg) to kill him

    in addition there's many tools to boost your mobility or ability to force rotation. MoM, 3rd utility to pick portal, stealth, mimic - i pick mom + midnight or minic most of the time

    Having Kitting tools is different from having map mobility.
    Mesmer have blink for long distance and sword ambush and that's it. Every class who can maintain swiftness will globally have better base mobility add to this superspeed or gab closer/teleport, that explain why class listed by leonidrex have better mobility.
    I didn't know a plat mesmer using mimic.
    Taking MoM drop too much duelling efficiency in the condi build.

    ye, a blink is enough on most maps in most games to secure a decap and force someone to 1v1 you - i didn't mean anything else when trying to explain what role mirage can take with the mobility it has
    i use MoM combined with midnight or mimic 99% of the time and i'm nearing plat 3 (2nd highest mesmer right now after misha btw), so they do well carrying a mediocre player like me. Also helio has used mimic on stream, which i stole it from ofc, i think he's 4x god of pvp by now.

    I was at your rating last week before I did some builds testing.
    Taking MoM in the case of condi build mean be less usefull at duelling on point, and as a duellist with very slow setup, you don't need to move faster to points. Mean why move faster on next point if you can't pressure it ?
    edited : Taking mimic mean having a 48 cd blink.
    Mean on the paper, I'm really surprised that you perform this good with this setup. I will test it more in details.

    i know and there is plenty other better mesmers or players in general
    for less experienced players like myself, MoM offers great survivabilty and mobility.
    the 48 sec blink, might not seem much but it means you survive any +1 or even +2 if its thieves.
    theres 5 enemies, 3 nodes with low cooldowns, rotate until you win
    I use midnight most of the time though

    You are right, it's strong and very confusing for ennemies.
    Thanks for the tip !

  • Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thanks ive been watching applying what ive seen here, ive swapped to wizards amulet and got some better results and yeah i've stopped trying to face people in team fights and 1v1's i cap and decap and move now. Again thanks.

    For those on the forums who advocate for the removal of duo queues in Spvp, realize your actions over the past 7 years has destroyed gw2 Spvp and thinking doing the same thing again is a good idea after several years of it not working crazy. Get better at pvp.