Give Daredevil BACK THE STEAL RANGE!!!

[Sobx.1758]

@Dave.6819 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Dave.6819 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

Soooo your claim was that they nefrfed D/P, but D/P is still fine -now you claim you meant one specific D/P build. You also said DD was made useless (pushed out of pvp), but when pointed out you're wrong (because you are), you claim it doesn't count, because it's boring. Great talk.

Long story short, steal change wouldn't magically make it not-boring and literally what @"Yasai.3549" said was the pretty obvious point of that nerf/rework.

Do not distort my words

in your own crazy ways. My claim was that they nerfed DD D/P and kicked out of meta (a long running Daredevil D/P meta that all Thief players loved). And by "viable" i never meant "optimal" (regarding Staff nonsence). And by boring all i meant was boring and there was no hidden reasoning behind that statement. Sure you can play Staff DD if u want to but i never said it's optimal and in PvP we want optimal. U can play P/P for all i care. You know what why i even bother? I've seen your posts around these forums. A clear Thief hater. You'd be happy to see it deleted entirely i assume.

I'm not distorting anything "in my crazy ways", this is literally what you wrote:

And what kind of direction would that be? To move Daredevil out of PvP stage and let Thief join in? They nerfed D/P then they went and nerfed Daredevil too.

You claimed the change pushed DD out of pvp stage, which was false/a lie. Then you said "they nerfed d/p" and "then they went and nerfed daredevil too". Never did you mention one specific "dd d/p" build like you're now suggesting, all I see is some bullkitten about pushing DD out of pvp and then complaints about d/p and dd nerfs. What exactly did I "distort" here, huh.

The build (any build) being boring is obviously subjective, can be stated about anything and has no relation to your previous claims nor is it relevant. If there is no hidden reasoning behind that, then I still don't see why it's worth mentioning that you find it boring.

lmao, I'm a "thief hater" now, that's hilarious. Please tell me more about that :lol: (no, literally,

please tell me more about it

-don't drop it like you did with your previous false claims).The fact that I'm not saying every nerf puts the class in the ground and I'm not constantly crying about

unneeded

buffs doesn't make me a "hater".

I won't fight it and i'm tired of discussions mate...

There's nothing to fight here, you write something that's incorrect, I point it out, you change your stance and try to claim I'm distorting what you said "in my crazy ways". You're the one that tries to insult me (and then calls me a "thief hater" :sleeping: ) when you have nothing to say. There also isn't much of a discussion here, notice how you drop what you wrote again (literally called it in my previous post) when you see you're wrong, just to redirect into something else. If you want me to start answering your irrelevant questions, maybe stop pretending I didn't write anything before that. Even moreso, when after claiming you're tired of discussions, you type out lenghy-ish post about something irrelevant to what was written before.

@Dave.6819 said:U can argue all u want but if u truly play and love only Thief u should remember all the nerfs we've got since pre-HoT and i'm lazy to go dig through the balance patches to show you all the nerfs daredevil got.

You're just another example of a player with absolutely no perspective, all you do is spam one character and every balance patch you see turns into "us vs them" instead of actually seeing the bigger picture (which isn't anywhere near perfection, lets be clear about that, but it sure isn't what you're trying to make it seem like). While you dig up the DD patchnotes, don't forget to dig up nearly every other class as well.

And this is where we track back to https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1142642/#Comment_1142642 All you care about is not getting ANY nerfs to THE class you play. You don't care what is or isn't deserved, you just care about feeling like anet somehow targets what you play specifically. Absolute lack of perspective. If you want to do what other classes do, play other classes. The class/build/spec having its niche in the game should be desirable imo. Otherwise, what's even the point?

[Carnifex.3275]

@"Sobx.1758" said:

You're just another example of a player with absolutely no perspective, all you do is spam one character and every balance patch you see turns into "us vs them" instead of actually seeing the bigger picture (which isn't anywhere near perfection, lets be clear about that, but it sure isn't what you're trying to make it seem like). While you dig up the DD patchnotes, don't forget to dig up nearly every other class as well.

And this is where we track back to https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1142642/#Comment_1142642 All you care about is not getting ANY nerfs to THE class you play. You don't care what is or isn't deserved, you just care about feeling like anet somehow targets what you play specifically. Absolute lack of perspective. If you want to do what other classes do, play other classes. The class/build/spec having its niche in the game should be desirable imo. Otherwise, what's even the point?

Okey so you wanna talk about perspective.... alright. Yes i am a Thief main. And no i'm not "us vs. them". I look at the big picture cuz i got every class in the stash and somehow playing Holo/Soulbeast/Mirage/FB/Rev/Scourge after a few days i'm already better then playing a Thief for 6-7 years. That makes me wonder. Lack of perspective or actually evaluating balance from every angle?

"All you care about is not getting ANY nerfs to THE class you play. You don't care what is or isn't deserved, you just care about feeling like anet somehow targets what you play specifically. Absolute lack of perspective."

Absolutely wrong my friend. I always look how Thief compares to the other classes. Somehow i never used to rant about it in 2013 2014 2015.. cuz everythin seemed balanced. It had its counters and it had it's weaknesses like it supposed to be. It wasn't OP but it wasn't only a +1 or decap class either. I rant only when there's a real reason to rant having in mind all classes and how they stack against each other. So yea.. think again. Simple fact. Assassin classes are supposed to be squishy but deal high dmg. Somehow we backstab for a lot less then Holo/Rev can burst.. Is that normal in your opinion? That's balanced and healthy?

[Zexanima.7851]

No! It's mine, you can't have it.

[Sobx.1758]

@Dave.6819 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:

You're just another example of a player with absolutely no perspective, all you do is spam one character and every balance patch you see turns into "us vs them" instead of actually seeing the bigger picture (which isn't anywhere near perfection, lets be clear about that, but it sure isn't what you're trying to make it seem like). While you dig up the DD patchnotes, don't forget to dig up nearly every other class as well.

And this is where we track back to

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1142642/#Comment_1142642

All you care about is not getting ANY nerfs to THE class you play. You don't care what is or isn't deserved, you just care about feeling like anet somehow targets what you play specifically. Absolute lack of perspective. If you want to do what other classes do, play other classes. The class/build/spec having its niche in the game should be desirable imo. Otherwise, what's even the point?

Okey so you wanna talk about perspective....

Oh, so you're not tired of discussions. Sooo there's no reason for you to not answer to the previous posts anymore, right? :D

@Dave.6819 said:Absolutely wrong my friend. I always look how Thief compares to the other classes. Somehow i never used to rant about it in 2013 2014 2015..

And yet, somehow you've made a claim that the swipe change pushed DD out of pvp, while apparently not understanading the point of the implemented changes.Then another "u should remember all the nerfs we've got since pre-HoT and i'm lazy to go dig through the balance patches to show you all the nerfs daredevil got." -so sure, lets pretend that nothing else got nerfed, but it's just DD/thief that's so oppressed with unjust changes. "Evaluating balance from every angle" and totally not playing a victim in self-made "us vs them" war, ok, whatever you say.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

People were playing D/D DD where they can proc Bounding Dodger, Steal and Cloak And Dagger from 1200 range and instantly drop a guy with an activated Assassin's Signet during a Backstab, all within 1 or 2 seconds.

While I generally agree with the rest of your post (although staff was not OP due to vault, either; it was all in skills 2 and 3 with PBAoE damage and evade frame glitching respectively), this is just 100% false. D/D power Daredevil was never better than D/P at any stage, and D/D for power builds hasn't been better than D/P at anything except DPS since 2012. And even on condi builds, D/P Daredevil was stronger than D/D for a significant amount of time due to condi trapper existing for so long.

I think they were more notorious for WvW shenanigans where they actually did see a huge amount of success in instagibbing players.

This was before Marked debuff forced a 5 second Reveal, I think after that, D/D saw way less use.

I have several thousand hours into D/D thief and until I stopped playing stayed competitive with a lot of some very popular thieves known for their good and skill-expressive play. Back in the days from Yishis to Min and Aikijin. Not on Sind or Toker's level, but not too far from it. Through sheer practice hours I'm better at D/D than any other thief kit.

D/D was never a dominant kit, especially not with Daredevil.

Core signet D/D was played in WvW more or less as a meme by a lot of people because it could legitimately one-shot most damage-oriented builds, but that's not unique to D/D and the theory and application/purpose of AS builds is more or less something that's being showcased by the emergence of D/P Assassin's Signet in the sPvP scene now. D/P SA Assassin's Signet core and D/P Daredevil have been run for years in WvW, and it's strictly the better build than anything D/D.

Death Blossom, Dancing Dagger, and in-combat-only, non-stacking/predictable cast stealth via CnD are just too weak at high levels of play, and the damage of CnD is usually more of a blessing than a curse in the low levels of play (and depending on the build and timeframe, all levels) with the passive damage prevention procs/effects so many builds have baked-in once at health thresholds.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:I have several thousand hours into D/D thief and until I stopped playing stayed competitive with a lot of some very popular thieves known for their good and skill-expressive play. Back in the days from Yishis to Min and Aikijin. Not on Sind or Toker's level, but not too far from it. Through sheer practice hours I'm better at D/D than any other thief kit.

Min was definitely beyond Sind and Toker mechanically. I’d put min as one of the best thief dualists in the game.

Sind and toker really know how to win games and understood mechanics though, which I highly respect them for.

Anyway I usto also main thief (4K games) was my fav class until my builds all got nerfed...the nail in the coffin was the steal nerf.

When I log my thief I just look at how much effort it takes for me to do 6k damage, then I hop on my reaper and just laugh while I mash my auto attack for 11k

[DeceiverX.8361]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:I have several thousand hours into D/D thief and until I stopped playing stayed competitive with a lot of some very popular thieves known for their good and skill-expressive play. Back in the days from Yishis to Min and Aikijin. Not on Sind or Toker's level, but not too far from it. Through sheer practice hours I'm better at D/D than any other thief kit.

Min was definitely beyond Sind and Toker mechanically. I’d put min as one of the best thief dualists in the game.

Sind and toker really know how to win games and understood mechanics though, which I highly respect them for.

Anyway I usto also main thief (4K games) was my fav class until my builds all got nerfed...the nail in the coffin was the steal nerf.

When I log my thief I just look at how much effort it takes for me to do 6k damage, then I hop on my reaper and just laugh while I mash my auto attack for 11k

Min's highlight time was during the peak of staff Daredevil and when nobody really know how to deal with it though. At least that was my experience. But I digress; my point was I've been around and fought a lot of the big names playing D/D near-exclusively. But enough of that.

I really am sad what they did to reaper. It has no skill expression anymore since the SR/RShroud changes because people didn't know how to play it :(

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@ChrisOblades.3276 said:i wont be playing guild wars 2 till you fix the 600 range swipe...

...have you just woke up after almost a year? <.<

lol, I was just going to ask the same thing. That might have been a very comfortable rock.

Everybody panic, bears have found the internet!

[Konrad Curze.5130]

@ChrisOblades.3276 said:i wont be playing guild wars 2 till you fix the 600 range swipe... that is ridiculously stupid! i cant play a build that i want because its been nerfted to the ground? same with lead attacks? and other things... i will be uninstalling and wont be recommending the game till balance is back regarding thief

Noone cares, bye bye, dont let the door hit you on the way out