Why does Longbow get used - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why does Longbow get used

2>

Comments

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    Well I love archery (been done it myself also, and love it in every movie & game) so that is a big plus for me. But longbow gives a unique utility to the ranger if used right. Also pew pewing is really fun.

    It is really not strong vs a skilled opponent though. There are way too many reflects/projectile destroys in this game.

    Ah and I want to say that;

    -Rangers are not the best ranged single target dmg dealers in the game. Deadeye and gunflame warrior can deal way more dmg than a longbow ranger. Gunflame warrior hit me with 18k when I had 2900 armor. Try it, feels fun. Deadeye has the same range and teleport on top of that with the side dish of invisibility.

    -As the game states that the ranger class is easy to use, beginners usually start their adventure with ranger. That is why the worst players were used to be ranger players (nowadays I see more bad warriors and necros surprisingly).

    -However ranger is not in a bad situation due to soulbeast elite (and core dueling build). Druid is bad in competitive as a support. (no idea about pve).

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    So how was LB better than boonbeast, mirage holo and core war again?

    I don't think anyone ever said, at least in this threat, tha LB ranger is superior to any of the specs you mentioned. Not sure why you feel so combative or defensive about it.

    Longbow is a weapon of convenience for open world content, and prior to a substantial set of nerfs, in pvp/wvw it could be devastating to be caught off guard/without cooldowns by a soulbeast running LB + Sic Em. However, as long as you had one stunbreak available, followed by a dodge, you could survive even the pre-nerf pewpew of death without too much trouble. Survival is just easier now with the nerfs to Sic Em, unblockable, and now follow-up damage as well.

    Because Anet nerfed his meme oneshot builds one after another, thus resorting to fallacies is the only acceptable means of continuing a discussion

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    @alain.1659 said:
    -Rangers are not the best ranged single target dmg dealers in the game. Deadeye and gunflame warrior can deal way more dmg than a longbow ranger. Gunflame warrior hit me with 18k when I had 2900 armor. Try it, feels fun. Deadeye has the same range and teleport on top of that with the side dish of invisibility.

    I think that is something a lot of people don't fully understand about Ranger.

    From all the years i've used the longbow on Ranger it's been clear to me that it's not supposed to be a single target DPS weapon.
    It's far more useful as a multi target DPS weapon using piercing arrows.

    I know a lot of people will say stuff like.. that's situational or that you can't take advantage of that often enough for it to be viable etc.
    But I'd have to disagree tbh.. I take advantage of piercing arrows all the time, I regularly line up groups and blast them down with a Barrage, Rapid Fire combo.. I love doing it.

    I call it playing to position, dunno what others call it but when i'm playing a LB Ranger my position in combat is equally as important to me as evading or special action key prompts.
    Much like a sniper will pick their location then relocate etc I will actively maneuver myself to line up enemies in many encounters to take advantage of the piercing arrows.

    It's surprising just how fast a LB Ranger can waste a small group of enemies or obliterate some adds just by doing something as simple as moving.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @alain.1659 said:
    -Rangers are not the best ranged single target dmg dealers in the game. Deadeye and gunflame warrior can deal way more dmg than a longbow ranger. Gunflame warrior hit me with 18k when I had 2900 armor. Try it, feels fun. Deadeye has the same range and teleport on top of that with the side dish of invisibility.

    I think that is something a lot of people don't fully understand about Ranger.

    From all the years i've used the longbow on Ranger it's been clear to me that it's not supposed to be a single target DPS weapon.
    It's far more useful as a multi target DPS weapon using piercing arrows.

    I know a lot of people will say stuff like.. that's situational or that you can't take advantage of that often enough for it to be viable etc.
    But I'd have to disagree tbh.. I take advantage of piercing arrows all the time, I regularly line up groups and blast them down with a Barrage, Rapid Fire combo.. I love doing it.

    I call it playing to position, dunno what others call it but when i'm playing a LB Ranger my position in combat is equally as important to me as evading or special action key prompts.
    Much like a sniper will pick their location then relocate etc I will actively maneuver myself to line up enemies in many encounters to take advantage of the piercing arrows.

    It's surprising just how fast a LB Ranger can waste a small group of enemies or obliterate some adds just by doing something as simple as moving.

    Actually thats the original desing of the ranger, its attacks should be based in positioning and constant movement. With a prefference for ranged weapons.
    The problem is the nosensical nerfs to the ranger what made it in the mess it is now. It lost the definition and the people in charge of the balance seems not to have any clue what do with it or even play with the class at all.

    Rangers are easy because the meatbag the pet works as and makes the LB ranger an AFK class. Perfect for bots.

    I would love the pets to have low aggro like it is in WoW or any actual MMO so mobs target the ranger oftenly

  • Sansar.1302Sansar.1302 Member ✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @alain.1659 said:
    -Rangers are not the best ranged single target dmg dealers in the game. Deadeye and gunflame warrior can deal way more dmg than a longbow ranger. Gunflame warrior hit me with 18k when I had 2900 armor. Try it, feels fun. Deadeye has the same range and teleport on top of that with the side dish of invisibility.

    I think that is something a lot of people don't fully understand about Ranger.

    From all the years i've used the longbow on Ranger it's been clear to me that it's not supposed to be a single target DPS weapon.
    It's far more useful as a multi target DPS weapon using piercing arrows.

    I know a lot of people will say stuff like.. that's situational or that you can't take advantage of that often enough for it to be viable etc.
    But I'd have to disagree tbh.. I take advantage of piercing arrows all the time, I regularly line up groups and blast them down with a Barrage, Rapid Fire combo.. I love doing it.

    I call it playing to position, dunno what others call it but when i'm playing a LB Ranger my position in combat is equally as important to me as evading or special action key prompts.
    Much like a sniper will pick their location then relocate etc I will actively maneuver myself to line up enemies in many encounters to take advantage of the piercing arrows.

    It's surprising just how fast a LB Ranger can waste a small group of enemies or obliterate some adds just by doing something as simple as moving.

    Yes its a ok weapon in open world pve/ story but anything works there ;)

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @alain.1659 said:
    -Rangers are not the best ranged single target dmg dealers in the game. Deadeye and gunflame warrior can deal way more dmg than a longbow ranger. Gunflame warrior hit me with 18k when I had 2900 armor. Try it, feels fun. Deadeye has the same range and teleport on top of that with the side dish of invisibility.

    I think that is something a lot of people don't fully understand about Ranger.

    From all the years i've used the longbow on Ranger it's been clear to me that it's not supposed to be a single target DPS weapon.
    It's far more useful as a multi target DPS weapon using piercing arrows.

    I know a lot of people will say stuff like.. that's situational or that you can't take advantage of that often enough for it to be viable etc.
    But I'd have to disagree tbh.. I take advantage of piercing arrows all the time, I regularly line up groups and blast them down with a Barrage, Rapid Fire combo.. I love doing it.

    I call it playing to position, dunno what others call it but when i'm playing a LB Ranger my position in combat is equally as important to me as evading or special action key prompts.
    Much like a sniper will pick their location then relocate etc I will actively maneuver myself to line up enemies in many encounters to take advantage of the piercing arrows.

    It's surprising just how fast a LB Ranger can waste a small group of enemies or obliterate some adds just by doing something as simple as moving.

    Actually thats the original desing of the ranger, its attacks should be based in positioning and constant movement. With a prefference for ranged weapons.
    The problem is the nosensical nerfs to the ranger what made it in the mess it is now. It lost the definition and the people in charge of the balance seems not to have any clue what do with it or even play with the class at all.

    Rangers are easy because the meatbag the pet works as and makes the LB ranger an AFK class. Perfect for bots.

    I would love the pets to have low aggro like it is in WoW or any actual MMO so mobs target the ranger oftenly

    That would require the removal of Hunter shot since stealth forces aggro to swap to another ally or pet.
    I used to use that tactic a lot back when spirits were useful so I could solo stronger stuff with a glass build.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @alain.1659 said:
    -Rangers are not the best ranged single target dmg dealers in the game. Deadeye and gunflame warrior can deal way more dmg than a longbow ranger. Gunflame warrior hit me with 18k when I had 2900 armor. Try it, feels fun. Deadeye has the same range and teleport on top of that with the side dish of invisibility.

    I think that is something a lot of people don't fully understand about Ranger.

    From all the years i've used the longbow on Ranger it's been clear to me that it's not supposed to be a single target DPS weapon.
    It's far more useful as a multi target DPS weapon using piercing arrows.

    I know a lot of people will say stuff like.. that's situational or that you can't take advantage of that often enough for it to be viable etc.
    But I'd have to disagree tbh.. I take advantage of piercing arrows all the time, I regularly line up groups and blast them down with a Barrage, Rapid Fire combo.. I love doing it.

    I call it playing to position, dunno what others call it but when i'm playing a LB Ranger my position in combat is equally as important to me as evading or special action key prompts.
    Much like a sniper will pick their location then relocate etc I will actively maneuver myself to line up enemies in many encounters to take advantage of the piercing arrows.

    It's surprising just how fast a LB Ranger can waste a small group of enemies or obliterate some adds just by doing something as simple as moving.

    Actually thats the original desing of the ranger, its attacks should be based in positioning and constant movement. With a prefference for ranged weapons.
    The problem is the nosensical nerfs to the ranger what made it in the mess it is now. It lost the definition and the people in charge of the balance seems not to have any clue what do with it or even play with the class at all.

    Rangers are easy because the meatbag the pet works as and makes the LB ranger an AFK class. Perfect for bots.

    I would love the pets to have low aggro like it is in WoW or any actual MMO so mobs target the ranger oftenly

    That would require the removal of Hunter shot since stealth forces aggro to swap to another ally or pet.
    I used to use that tactic a lot back when spirits were useful so I could solo stronger stuff with a glass build.

    Umm i dont understand your internal process there and relate hunters shot with remove aggro from the pet. On the contrary rangers would need to learn and use properly use of hunters shot and point blank shot if the pet wont aggro that much anymore.

    Yeh spirits unbound was fun. I have to agree with the pet zoo and visual noise issue, but now they could show them as wisps. I don't get why in a class which is designed to move constantly somebody would think to make the spirits to turn into ugly banners was a good idea.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @alain.1659 said:
    -Rangers are not the best ranged single target dmg dealers in the game. Deadeye and gunflame warrior can deal way more dmg than a longbow ranger. Gunflame warrior hit me with 18k when I had 2900 armor. Try it, feels fun. Deadeye has the same range and teleport on top of that with the side dish of invisibility.

    I think that is something a lot of people don't fully understand about Ranger.

    From all the years i've used the longbow on Ranger it's been clear to me that it's not supposed to be a single target DPS weapon.
    It's far more useful as a multi target DPS weapon using piercing arrows.

    I know a lot of people will say stuff like.. that's situational or that you can't take advantage of that often enough for it to be viable etc.
    But I'd have to disagree tbh.. I take advantage of piercing arrows all the time, I regularly line up groups and blast them down with a Barrage, Rapid Fire combo.. I love doing it.

    I call it playing to position, dunno what others call it but when i'm playing a LB Ranger my position in combat is equally as important to me as evading or special action key prompts.
    Much like a sniper will pick their location then relocate etc I will actively maneuver myself to line up enemies in many encounters to take advantage of the piercing arrows.

    It's surprising just how fast a LB Ranger can waste a small group of enemies or obliterate some adds just by doing something as simple as moving.

    Actually thats the original desing of the ranger, its attacks should be based in positioning and constant movement. With a prefference for ranged weapons.
    The problem is the nosensical nerfs to the ranger what made it in the mess it is now. It lost the definition and the people in charge of the balance seems not to have any clue what do with it or even play with the class at all.

    Rangers are easy because the meatbag the pet works as and makes the LB ranger an AFK class. Perfect for bots.

    I would love the pets to have low aggro like it is in WoW or any actual MMO so mobs target the ranger oftenly

    That would require the removal of Hunter shot since stealth forces aggro to swap to another ally or pet.
    I used to use that tactic a lot back when spirits were useful so I could solo stronger stuff with a glass build.

    Umm i dont understand your internal process there and relate hunters shot with remove aggro from the pet. On the contrary rangers would need to learn and use properly use of hunters shot and point blank shot if the pet wont aggro that much anymore.

    Yeh spirits unbound was fun. I have to agree with the pet zoo and visual noise issue, but now they could show them as wisps. I don't get why in a class which is designed to move constantly somebody would think to make the spirits to turn into ugly banners was a good idea.

    I was referring to how stealth works in regard to an enemies aggro.
    Giving the pet a lower aggro than the player wouldn't change anything if the player can stealth and force the enemy to aggro on the pet instead of them.
    Only way you could force the enemy to recognize the player over the pet would be code enemies to ignore pets entirely which could be exploited or remove the Ranger's ability to stealth and subsequently remove their ability to manipulate aggro which is what they would probably go with.

    I like spirits in concept, the old ones anyway.. I strongly dislike them in their current form.
    Diminishing hp has more or less killed them for me as they're just too easy to kill now, plus it makes no sense at all to me that every utility spirit has an offensive ability but teleports to me instead of my targeted enemy..
    Water and Nature Spirits I get.. porting to you to heal and revive but the other 4's abilities are completely wasted unless you're running pure melee build.

    Add to that their attack animation is far too long, more often than not against a strong enemy you pull a spirit to you and it's going to die before it gets off it's attack.
    They're really bad now imo so I stopped using them.

    I agree with you though, they should be wisps that follow you around.
    Dark Blue wisp for Water.
    Yellow for Sun, Purple for Storm, Light Blue for Frost, Brown/Green for Stone.
    Large glowing White wisp for Nature.

    I'd have them floating around above the players head the large nature one being the most obvious while the other wisps are smaller and fly around where the nature one would be whether it's active or not.
    Players would easily be able to see what spirits a Ranger currently has active this way unless there are tons of big players stacked on them or they have visual problems.
    I'd give wisps shorter range too so that you'll need to be closer to the Ranger to get their benefits, likewise though the utility wisps would be the only ones that teleport now and i'd have them teleport to enemies instead, explode instantly doing their effect and damage while buffing nearby allies before they make their way back to the Ranger buffing allies they pass along the way.

    The other change i'd make is to remove their hp and give them charges/ammo instead.. if we can't have spirits like we used to then get rid of the useless degenerating hp and just give them limited uses with CD.
    If this can be done without needing to summon them then even better, if not then have them insta summon upon clicking the base skill (like popping a signet) without needing an animation that takes away from another action such as attacking.

    Wisp buffs would return to their 33% chance on hit for whatever boon but could be traited for 100% every 3 seconds.
    Wisp active skills remain largely the same in function, utility wisps teleport to enemies freezing, blinding, dealing damage etc with the potential to trait these Wisps to give out might, protection, swiftness or burns depending on the spirit, while Water and Nature activate at your location with the potential to trait these Wisps to give out regen (water) and remove conditions (nature) while also being able to teleport to a selected ally's location to heal/revive them instead of you (using while targeting an enemy makes them activate at your location like normal)

    That's how i'd do this Wisp concept.. but that's just me.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2019

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @alain.1659 said:
    -Rangers are not the best ranged single target dmg dealers in the game. Deadeye and gunflame warrior can deal way more dmg than a longbow ranger. Gunflame warrior hit me with 18k when I had 2900 armor. Try it, feels fun. Deadeye has the same range and teleport on top of that with the side dish of invisibility.

    I think that is something a lot of people don't fully understand about Ranger.

    From all the years i've used the longbow on Ranger it's been clear to me that it's not supposed to be a single target DPS weapon.
    It's far more useful as a multi target DPS weapon using piercing arrows.

    I know a lot of people will say stuff like.. that's situational or that you can't take advantage of that often enough for it to be viable etc.
    But I'd have to disagree tbh.. I take advantage of piercing arrows all the time, I regularly line up groups and blast them down with a Barrage, Rapid Fire combo.. I love doing it.

    I call it playing to position, dunno what others call it but when i'm playing a LB Ranger my position in combat is equally as important to me as evading or special action key prompts.
    Much like a sniper will pick their location then relocate etc I will actively maneuver myself to line up enemies in many encounters to take advantage of the piercing arrows.

    It's surprising just how fast a LB Ranger can waste a small group of enemies or obliterate some adds just by doing something as simple as moving.

    Actually thats the original desing of the ranger, its attacks should be based in positioning and constant movement. With a prefference for ranged weapons.
    The problem is the nosensical nerfs to the ranger what made it in the mess it is now. It lost the definition and the people in charge of the balance seems not to have any clue what do with it or even play with the class at all.

    Rangers are easy because the meatbag the pet works as and makes the LB ranger an AFK class. Perfect for bots.

    I would love the pets to have low aggro like it is in WoW or any actual MMO so mobs target the ranger oftenly

    That would require the removal of Hunter shot since stealth forces aggro to swap to another ally or pet.
    I used to use that tactic a lot back when spirits were useful so I could solo stronger stuff with a glass build.

    Umm i dont understand your internal process there and relate hunters shot with remove aggro from the pet. On the contrary rangers would need to learn and use properly use of hunters shot and point blank shot if the pet wont aggro that much anymore.

    Yeh spirits unbound was fun. I have to agree with the pet zoo and visual noise issue, but now they could show them as wisps. I don't get why in a class which is designed to move constantly somebody would think to make the spirits to turn into ugly banners was a good idea.

    I was referring to how stealth works in regard to an enemies aggro.
    Giving the pet a lower aggro than the player wouldn't change anything if the player can stealth and force the enemy to aggro on the pet instead of them.
    Only way you could force the enemy to recognize the player over the pet would be code enemies to ignore pets entirely which could be exploited or remove the Ranger's ability to stealth and subsequently remove their ability to manipulate aggro which is what they would probably go with.

    I like spirits in concept, the old ones anyway.. I strongly dislike them in their current form.
    Diminishing hp has more or less killed them for me as they're just too easy to kill now, plus it makes no sense at all to me that every utility spirit has an offensive ability but teleports to me instead of my targeted enemy..
    Water and Nature Spirits I get.. porting to you to heal and revive but the other 4's abilities are completely wasted unless you're running pure melee build.

    Add to that their attack animation is far too long, more often than not against a strong enemy you pull a spirit to you and it's going to die before it gets off it's attack.
    They're really bad now imo so I stopped using them.

    I agree with you though, they should be wisps that follow you around.
    Dark Blue wisp for Water.
    Yellow for Sun, Purple for Storm, Light Blue for Frost, Brown/Green for Stone.
    Large glowing White wisp for Nature.

    I'd have them floating around above the players head the large nature one being the most obvious while the other wisps are smaller and fly around where the nature one would be whether it's active or not.
    Players would easily be able to see what spirits a Ranger currently has active this way unless there are tons of big players stacked on them or they have visual problems.
    I'd give wisps shorter range too so that you'll need to be closer to the Ranger to get their benefits, likewise though the utility wisps would be the only ones that teleport now and i'd have them teleport to enemies instead, explode instantly doing their effect and damage while buffing nearby allies before they make their way back to the Ranger buffing allies they pass along the way.

    The other change i'd make is to remove their hp and give them charges/ammo instead.. if we can't have spirits like we used to then get rid of the useless degenerating hp and just give them limited uses with CD.
    If this can be done without needing to summon them then even better, if not then have them insta summon upon clicking the base skill (like popping a signet) without needing an animation that takes away from another action such as attacking.

    Wisp buffs would return to their 33% chance on hit for whatever boon but could be traited for 100% every 3 seconds.
    Wisp active skills remain largely the same in function, utility wisps teleport to enemies freezing, blinding, dealing damage etc with the potential to trait these Wisps to give out might, protection, swiftness or burns depending on the spirit, while Water and Nature activate at your location with the potential to trait these Wisps to give out regen (water) and remove conditions (nature) while also being able to teleport to a selected ally's location to heal/revive them instead of you (using while targeting an enemy makes them activate at your location like normal)

    That's how i'd do this Wisp concept.. but that's just me.

    I don't understand your mental process there about the longbow.
    What you are suggesting makes no sense, nerfing longbow because you are nerfing how the pets aggro? So we nerf this because we are also nerfing that? It makes no sense at all, from my point of view there is no need to nerf anything in the ranger right now.

    The idea of lowering the aggro is to avoid the pet being used as meatshield in PvE being as they are invulnerable now. If the ranger learns to use LB#3 properly and by the way how the combo fields works, fantastic.
    This is the only mmo where the pet can tank dungeons bosses while the ranger afk autottack for 40 minutes. If the point is to help rangers to understand the class, Why would you think devs would remove such mechanics?

    The decaying hp for the spirits is fine. The ranger just needs to share automatically all the regeneration, protection and stability the ranger receives. Same as they do with bountiful hunter, but baseline for spirits. To balance that the spirits are released when the active is used (ideally an ranged ground AoE), so they get one use and go into CD. And get back the old 30s CD.

    Also the idea behind the wisp is also they don't use terrain. As such there is no need to calculate any pathing, just float ( not orbiting ) close to the ranger and be treated as projectile when casted the active.

    That would make them more usable in a combat situation and less overhead for the server.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2019

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @alain.1659 said:
    -Rangers are not the best ranged single target dmg dealers in the game. Deadeye and gunflame warrior can deal way more dmg than a longbow ranger. Gunflame warrior hit me with 18k when I had 2900 armor. Try it, feels fun. Deadeye has the same range and teleport on top of that with the side dish of invisibility.

    I think that is something a lot of people don't fully understand about Ranger.

    From all the years i've used the longbow on Ranger it's been clear to me that it's not supposed to be a single target DPS weapon.
    It's far more useful as a multi target DPS weapon using piercing arrows.

    I know a lot of people will say stuff like.. that's situational or that you can't take advantage of that often enough for it to be viable etc.
    But I'd have to disagree tbh.. I take advantage of piercing arrows all the time, I regularly line up groups and blast them down with a Barrage, Rapid Fire combo.. I love doing it.

    I call it playing to position, dunno what others call it but when i'm playing a LB Ranger my position in combat is equally as important to me as evading or special action key prompts.
    Much like a sniper will pick their location then relocate etc I will actively maneuver myself to line up enemies in many encounters to take advantage of the piercing arrows.

    It's surprising just how fast a LB Ranger can waste a small group of enemies or obliterate some adds just by doing something as simple as moving.

    Actually thats the original desing of the ranger, its attacks should be based in positioning and constant movement. With a prefference for ranged weapons.
    The problem is the nosensical nerfs to the ranger what made it in the mess it is now. It lost the definition and the people in charge of the balance seems not to have any clue what do with it or even play with the class at all.

    Rangers are easy because the meatbag the pet works as and makes the LB ranger an AFK class. Perfect for bots.

    I would love the pets to have low aggro like it is in WoW or any actual MMO so mobs target the ranger oftenly

    That would require the removal of Hunter shot since stealth forces aggro to swap to another ally or pet.
    I used to use that tactic a lot back when spirits were useful so I could solo stronger stuff with a glass build.

    Umm i dont understand your internal process there and relate hunters shot with remove aggro from the pet. On the contrary rangers would need to learn and use properly use of hunters shot and point blank shot if the pet wont aggro that much anymore.

    Yeh spirits unbound was fun. I have to agree with the pet zoo and visual noise issue, but now they could show them as wisps. I don't get why in a class which is designed to move constantly somebody would think to make the spirits to turn into ugly banners was a good idea.

    I was referring to how stealth works in regard to an enemies aggro.
    Giving the pet a lower aggro than the player wouldn't change anything if the player can stealth and force the enemy to aggro on the pet instead of them.
    Only way you could force the enemy to recognize the player over the pet would be code enemies to ignore pets entirely which could be exploited or remove the Ranger's ability to stealth and subsequently remove their ability to manipulate aggro which is what they would probably go with.

    I like spirits in concept, the old ones anyway.. I strongly dislike them in their current form.
    Diminishing hp has more or less killed them for me as they're just too easy to kill now, plus it makes no sense at all to me that every utility spirit has an offensive ability but teleports to me instead of my targeted enemy..
    Water and Nature Spirits I get.. porting to you to heal and revive but the other 4's abilities are completely wasted unless you're running pure melee build.

    Add to that their attack animation is far too long, more often than not against a strong enemy you pull a spirit to you and it's going to die before it gets off it's attack.
    They're really bad now imo so I stopped using them.

    I agree with you though, they should be wisps that follow you around.
    Dark Blue wisp for Water.
    Yellow for Sun, Purple for Storm, Light Blue for Frost, Brown/Green for Stone.
    Large glowing White wisp for Nature.

    I'd have them floating around above the players head the large nature one being the most obvious while the other wisps are smaller and fly around where the nature one would be whether it's active or not.
    Players would easily be able to see what spirits a Ranger currently has active this way unless there are tons of big players stacked on them or they have visual problems.
    I'd give wisps shorter range too so that you'll need to be closer to the Ranger to get their benefits, likewise though the utility wisps would be the only ones that teleport now and i'd have them teleport to enemies instead, explode instantly doing their effect and damage while buffing nearby allies before they make their way back to the Ranger buffing allies they pass along the way.

    The other change i'd make is to remove their hp and give them charges/ammo instead.. if we can't have spirits like we used to then get rid of the useless degenerating hp and just give them limited uses with CD.
    If this can be done without needing to summon them then even better, if not then have them insta summon upon clicking the base skill (like popping a signet) without needing an animation that takes away from another action such as attacking.

    Wisp buffs would return to their 33% chance on hit for whatever boon but could be traited for 100% every 3 seconds.
    Wisp active skills remain largely the same in function, utility wisps teleport to enemies freezing, blinding, dealing damage etc with the potential to trait these Wisps to give out might, protection, swiftness or burns depending on the spirit, while Water and Nature activate at your location with the potential to trait these Wisps to give out regen (water) and remove conditions (nature) while also being able to teleport to a selected ally's location to heal/revive them instead of you (using while targeting an enemy makes them activate at your location like normal)

    That's how i'd do this Wisp concept.. but that's just me.

    I don't understand your mental process there about the longbow.
    What you are suggesting makes no sense, nerfing longbow because you are nerfing how the pets aggro? So we nerf this because we are also nerfing that? It makes no sense at all, from my point of view there is no need to nerf anything in the ranger right now.

    The idea of lowering the aggro is to avoid the pet being used as meatshield in PvE being as they are invulnerable now.

    This is the only mmo where the pet can tank dungeons bosses while the ranger afk autottack for 40 minutes. If the point is to help rangers to understand the class, Why would you think devs would remove such mechanics?

    You're failing to understand how stealth works in this case.
    Lowering the aggro of the pet is completely pointless and irrelevant if the Ranger has access to a stealth skill.
    Stealth de-aggross the player and forces the enemy AI to aggro onto the pet or another player or NPC instead of you.
    If Devs wanted to make enemies focus the player over the pet they would either have to code them to do this which is time consuming and potentially buggy or they could just remove the Rangers ability to stealth which would be significantly easier to do.

    In short, so long as Ranger can stealth.. pets will always be able to be used as a Meatshield because of how enemy aggro works in the game.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @alain.1659 said:
    -Rangers are not the best ranged single target dmg dealers in the game. Deadeye and gunflame warrior can deal way more dmg than a longbow ranger. Gunflame warrior hit me with 18k when I had 2900 armor. Try it, feels fun. Deadeye has the same range and teleport on top of that with the side dish of invisibility.

    I think that is something a lot of people don't fully understand about Ranger.

    From all the years i've used the longbow on Ranger it's been clear to me that it's not supposed to be a single target DPS weapon.
    It's far more useful as a multi target DPS weapon using piercing arrows.

    I know a lot of people will say stuff like.. that's situational or that you can't take advantage of that often enough for it to be viable etc.
    But I'd have to disagree tbh.. I take advantage of piercing arrows all the time, I regularly line up groups and blast them down with a Barrage, Rapid Fire combo.. I love doing it.

    I call it playing to position, dunno what others call it but when i'm playing a LB Ranger my position in combat is equally as important to me as evading or special action key prompts.
    Much like a sniper will pick their location then relocate etc I will actively maneuver myself to line up enemies in many encounters to take advantage of the piercing arrows.

    It's surprising just how fast a LB Ranger can waste a small group of enemies or obliterate some adds just by doing something as simple as moving.

    Actually thats the original desing of the ranger, its attacks should be based in positioning and constant movement. With a prefference for ranged weapons.
    The problem is the nosensical nerfs to the ranger what made it in the mess it is now. It lost the definition and the people in charge of the balance seems not to have any clue what do with it or even play with the class at all.

    Rangers are easy because the meatbag the pet works as and makes the LB ranger an AFK class. Perfect for bots.

    I would love the pets to have low aggro like it is in WoW or any actual MMO so mobs target the ranger oftenly

    That would require the removal of Hunter shot since stealth forces aggro to swap to another ally or pet.
    I used to use that tactic a lot back when spirits were useful so I could solo stronger stuff with a glass build.

    Umm i dont understand your internal process there and relate hunters shot with remove aggro from the pet. On the contrary rangers would need to learn and use properly use of hunters shot and point blank shot if the pet wont aggro that much anymore.

    Yeh spirits unbound was fun. I have to agree with the pet zoo and visual noise issue, but now they could show them as wisps. I don't get why in a class which is designed to move constantly somebody would think to make the spirits to turn into ugly banners was a good idea.

    I was referring to how stealth works in regard to an enemies aggro.
    Giving the pet a lower aggro than the player wouldn't change anything if the player can stealth and force the enemy to aggro on the pet instead of them.
    Only way you could force the enemy to recognize the player over the pet would be code enemies to ignore pets entirely which could be exploited or remove the Ranger's ability to stealth and subsequently remove their ability to manipulate aggro which is what they would probably go with.

    I like spirits in concept, the old ones anyway.. I strongly dislike them in their current form.
    Diminishing hp has more or less killed them for me as they're just too easy to kill now, plus it makes no sense at all to me that every utility spirit has an offensive ability but teleports to me instead of my targeted enemy..
    Water and Nature Spirits I get.. porting to you to heal and revive but the other 4's abilities are completely wasted unless you're running pure melee build.

    Add to that their attack animation is far too long, more often than not against a strong enemy you pull a spirit to you and it's going to die before it gets off it's attack.
    They're really bad now imo so I stopped using them.

    I agree with you though, they should be wisps that follow you around.
    Dark Blue wisp for Water.
    Yellow for Sun, Purple for Storm, Light Blue for Frost, Brown/Green for Stone.
    Large glowing White wisp for Nature.

    I'd have them floating around above the players head the large nature one being the most obvious while the other wisps are smaller and fly around where the nature one would be whether it's active or not.
    Players would easily be able to see what spirits a Ranger currently has active this way unless there are tons of big players stacked on them or they have visual problems.
    I'd give wisps shorter range too so that you'll need to be closer to the Ranger to get their benefits, likewise though the utility wisps would be the only ones that teleport now and i'd have them teleport to enemies instead, explode instantly doing their effect and damage while buffing nearby allies before they make their way back to the Ranger buffing allies they pass along the way.

    The other change i'd make is to remove their hp and give them charges/ammo instead.. if we can't have spirits like we used to then get rid of the useless degenerating hp and just give them limited uses with CD.
    If this can be done without needing to summon them then even better, if not then have them insta summon upon clicking the base skill (like popping a signet) without needing an animation that takes away from another action such as attacking.

    Wisp buffs would return to their 33% chance on hit for whatever boon but could be traited for 100% every 3 seconds.
    Wisp active skills remain largely the same in function, utility wisps teleport to enemies freezing, blinding, dealing damage etc with the potential to trait these Wisps to give out might, protection, swiftness or burns depending on the spirit, while Water and Nature activate at your location with the potential to trait these Wisps to give out regen (water) and remove conditions (nature) while also being able to teleport to a selected ally's location to heal/revive them instead of you (using while targeting an enemy makes them activate at your location like normal)

    That's how i'd do this Wisp concept.. but that's just me.

    I don't understand your mental process there about the longbow.
    What you are suggesting makes no sense, nerfing longbow because you are nerfing how the pets aggro? So we nerf this because we are also nerfing that? It makes no sense at all, from my point of view there is no need to nerf anything in the ranger right now.

    The idea of lowering the aggro is to avoid the pet being used as meatshield in PvE being as they are invulnerable now.

    This is the only mmo where the pet can tank dungeons bosses while the ranger afk autottack for 40 minutes. If the point is to help rangers to understand the class, Why would you think devs would remove such mechanics?

    You're failing to understand how stealth works in this case.
    Lowering the aggro of the pet is completely pointless and irrelevant if the Ranger has access to a stealth skill.
    Stealth de-aggross the player and forces the enemy AI to aggro onto the pet or another player or NPC instead of you.
    If Devs wanted to make enemies focus the player over the pet they would either have to code them to do this which is time consuming and potentially buggy or they could just remove the Rangers ability to stealth which would be significantly easier to do.

    In short, so long as Ranger can stealth.. pets will always be able to be used as a Meatshield because of how enemy aggro works in the game.

    I guess for your comments you are an actual programmer so I'll be more technical

    • pets have a aggro index associated to their toughness, this is right now very high because the immunity they have in pve.
    • if the pets get assigned a much lower index then the ranger will have the higher one.
    • this means as long as the ranger is within the colission detection area of the mob object, the mob will chose the ranger over the pet.
    • If the ranger uses stealth the index goes to 0. The ranger object does not colission with the mob AoE.
    • As such the mobs attack the next index, in this case the pet which is not 0 but very low.
    • until the ranger comes up and gets detected.

    As you can see just changing one value we fixed the issue with the pets being just a meatshield. I don't see where new coding is being involved there.

    Not that either you or me work in anet as devs so sentences like 'this take to rework this or dev that' make much sense in this context.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2019

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @alain.1659 said:
    -Rangers are not the best ranged single target dmg dealers in the game. Deadeye and gunflame warrior can deal way more dmg than a longbow ranger. Gunflame warrior hit me with 18k when I had 2900 armor. Try it, feels fun. Deadeye has the same range and teleport on top of that with the side dish of invisibility.

    I think that is something a lot of people don't fully understand about Ranger.

    From all the years i've used the longbow on Ranger it's been clear to me that it's not supposed to be a single target DPS weapon.
    It's far more useful as a multi target DPS weapon using piercing arrows.

    I know a lot of people will say stuff like.. that's situational or that you can't take advantage of that often enough for it to be viable etc.
    But I'd have to disagree tbh.. I take advantage of piercing arrows all the time, I regularly line up groups and blast them down with a Barrage, Rapid Fire combo.. I love doing it.

    I call it playing to position, dunno what others call it but when i'm playing a LB Ranger my position in combat is equally as important to me as evading or special action key prompts.
    Much like a sniper will pick their location then relocate etc I will actively maneuver myself to line up enemies in many encounters to take advantage of the piercing arrows.

    It's surprising just how fast a LB Ranger can waste a small group of enemies or obliterate some adds just by doing something as simple as moving.

    Actually thats the original desing of the ranger, its attacks should be based in positioning and constant movement. With a prefference for ranged weapons.
    The problem is the nosensical nerfs to the ranger what made it in the mess it is now. It lost the definition and the people in charge of the balance seems not to have any clue what do with it or even play with the class at all.

    Rangers are easy because the meatbag the pet works as and makes the LB ranger an AFK class. Perfect for bots.

    I would love the pets to have low aggro like it is in WoW or any actual MMO so mobs target the ranger oftenly

    That would require the removal of Hunter shot since stealth forces aggro to swap to another ally or pet.
    I used to use that tactic a lot back when spirits were useful so I could solo stronger stuff with a glass build.

    Umm i dont understand your internal process there and relate hunters shot with remove aggro from the pet. On the contrary rangers would need to learn and use properly use of hunters shot and point blank shot if the pet wont aggro that much anymore.

    Yeh spirits unbound was fun. I have to agree with the pet zoo and visual noise issue, but now they could show them as wisps. I don't get why in a class which is designed to move constantly somebody would think to make the spirits to turn into ugly banners was a good idea.

    I was referring to how stealth works in regard to an enemies aggro.
    Giving the pet a lower aggro than the player wouldn't change anything if the player can stealth and force the enemy to aggro on the pet instead of them.
    Only way you could force the enemy to recognize the player over the pet would be code enemies to ignore pets entirely which could be exploited or remove the Ranger's ability to stealth and subsequently remove their ability to manipulate aggro which is what they would probably go with.

    I like spirits in concept, the old ones anyway.. I strongly dislike them in their current form.
    Diminishing hp has more or less killed them for me as they're just too easy to kill now, plus it makes no sense at all to me that every utility spirit has an offensive ability but teleports to me instead of my targeted enemy..
    Water and Nature Spirits I get.. porting to you to heal and revive but the other 4's abilities are completely wasted unless you're running pure melee build.

    Add to that their attack animation is far too long, more often than not against a strong enemy you pull a spirit to you and it's going to die before it gets off it's attack.
    They're really bad now imo so I stopped using them.

    I agree with you though, they should be wisps that follow you around.
    Dark Blue wisp for Water.
    Yellow for Sun, Purple for Storm, Light Blue for Frost, Brown/Green for Stone.
    Large glowing White wisp for Nature.

    I'd have them floating around above the players head the large nature one being the most obvious while the other wisps are smaller and fly around where the nature one would be whether it's active or not.
    Players would easily be able to see what spirits a Ranger currently has active this way unless there are tons of big players stacked on them or they have visual problems.
    I'd give wisps shorter range too so that you'll need to be closer to the Ranger to get their benefits, likewise though the utility wisps would be the only ones that teleport now and i'd have them teleport to enemies instead, explode instantly doing their effect and damage while buffing nearby allies before they make their way back to the Ranger buffing allies they pass along the way.

    The other change i'd make is to remove their hp and give them charges/ammo instead.. if we can't have spirits like we used to then get rid of the useless degenerating hp and just give them limited uses with CD.
    If this can be done without needing to summon them then even better, if not then have them insta summon upon clicking the base skill (like popping a signet) without needing an animation that takes away from another action such as attacking.

    Wisp buffs would return to their 33% chance on hit for whatever boon but could be traited for 100% every 3 seconds.
    Wisp active skills remain largely the same in function, utility wisps teleport to enemies freezing, blinding, dealing damage etc with the potential to trait these Wisps to give out might, protection, swiftness or burns depending on the spirit, while Water and Nature activate at your location with the potential to trait these Wisps to give out regen (water) and remove conditions (nature) while also being able to teleport to a selected ally's location to heal/revive them instead of you (using while targeting an enemy makes them activate at your location like normal)

    That's how i'd do this Wisp concept.. but that's just me.

    I don't understand your mental process there about the longbow.
    What you are suggesting makes no sense, nerfing longbow because you are nerfing how the pets aggro? So we nerf this because we are also nerfing that? It makes no sense at all, from my point of view there is no need to nerf anything in the ranger right now.

    The idea of lowering the aggro is to avoid the pet being used as meatshield in PvE being as they are invulnerable now.

    This is the only mmo where the pet can tank dungeons bosses while the ranger afk autottack for 40 minutes. If the point is to help rangers to understand the class, Why would you think devs would remove such mechanics?

    You're failing to understand how stealth works in this case.
    Lowering the aggro of the pet is completely pointless and irrelevant if the Ranger has access to a stealth skill.
    Stealth de-aggross the player and forces the enemy AI to aggro onto the pet or another player or NPC instead of you.
    If Devs wanted to make enemies focus the player over the pet they would either have to code them to do this which is time consuming and potentially buggy or they could just remove the Rangers ability to stealth which would be significantly easier to do.

    In short, so long as Ranger can stealth.. pets will always be able to be used as a Meatshield because of how enemy aggro works in the game.

    I guess for your comments you are an actual programmer so I'll be more technical

    • pets have a aggro index associated to their toughness, this is right now very high because the immunity they have in pve.
    • if the pets get assigned a much lower index then the ranger will have the higher one.
    • this means as long as the ranger is within the colission detection area of the mob object, the mob will chose the ranger over the pet.
    • If the ranger uses stealth the index goes to 0. The ranger object does not colission with the mob AoE.
    • As such the mobs attack the next index, in this case the pet which is not 0 but very low.
    • until the ranger comes up and gets detected.

    As you can see just changing one value we fixed the issue with the pets being just a meatshield. I don't see where new coding is being involved there.

    Not that either you or me work in anet as devs so sentences like 'this take to rework this or dev that' make much sense in this context.

    Nah not a programmer, only have experience to go on with enemy behaviour.

    As far as i'm aware the kind of toughness related aggro mechanics you mentioned only works with specific creatures like raid bosses etc that are designed to focus tank players in order for tank roles to play more a part in the content, I don't recall any enemies pre raids having this kind of behaviour.. I could be wrong though.

    Most common mobs from my experience tend to attack the first target that gets near them or attacks them (Ranger shooting target, target comes for ranger and ignores pet for example) and they occasionally change targets which I think has more to do with distance than stats or perhaps the last thing that hit them.
    I have a high toughness tank in PvE too but I never retain the boss's aggro completely in a groups even when I'm facetanking and I know everyone around me is dps, it still switches targets on occasion but I don't know exactly why they do this.

    Personally i'd rather pets get more diverse to play different roles.. more glassy pets, more tanky pets, more condi focused pets, support pets, CC pets and healing pets etc.
    If there's one thing about Ranger that does kind of bug me it's that there are a lot of pets that only differ by their F2 skills..
    Stat wise many of them are identical and that seems a bit wasteful to me.

    To take cats as an example.
    7 cat pets.. all identical stats.
    I'd rather they have differences like:
    Cheetah.. Average power, high precision, high ferocity, low toughness and vitality.. F2 quickness.
    Tiger.. High power, low precision, low ferocity, average toughness and high vitality.. F2 pounce and knockdown.
    Lynx.. low power, high precision, high condition damage, average toughtness and vitality.. F2 bleed and weakness.
    Jaguar.. Average across the board stats.. F2 teleport and reveal (WvW anti stealth pet)

    If pets were more diverse like this they'd feel far more unique and we'd probably see a lot of pets that currently don't get used or rarely get incorporated into more builds.

  • Tukaram.8256Tukaram.8256 Member ✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    One of my main characters is a Ranger themed on an Archer so.. even with nerfs etc I will always love the Longbow.

    My secondary avatar is a ranger. I love the longbow. I send the pet out to take agro and I stand back and shoot multiple targets with my longbow. What is not to love about it?

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2019

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @alain.1659 said:
    -Rangers are not the best ranged single target dmg dealers in the game. Deadeye and gunflame warrior can deal way more dmg than a longbow ranger. Gunflame warrior hit me with 18k when I had 2900 armor. Try it, feels fun. Deadeye has the same range and teleport on top of that with the side dish of invisibility.

    I think that is something a lot of people don't fully understand about Ranger.

    From all the years i've used the longbow on Ranger it's been clear to me that it's not supposed to be a single target DPS weapon.
    It's far more useful as a multi target DPS weapon using piercing arrows.

    I know a lot of people will say stuff like.. that's situational or that you can't take advantage of that often enough for it to be viable etc.
    But I'd have to disagree tbh.. I take advantage of piercing arrows all the time, I regularly line up groups and blast them down with a Barrage, Rapid Fire combo.. I love doing it.

    I call it playing to position, dunno what others call it but when i'm playing a LB Ranger my position in combat is equally as important to me as evading or special action key prompts.
    Much like a sniper will pick their location then relocate etc I will actively maneuver myself to line up enemies in many encounters to take advantage of the piercing arrows.

    It's surprising just how fast a LB Ranger can waste a small group of enemies or obliterate some adds just by doing something as simple as moving.

    Actually thats the original desing of the ranger, its attacks should be based in positioning and constant movement. With a prefference for ranged weapons.
    The problem is the nosensical nerfs to the ranger what made it in the mess it is now. It lost the definition and the people in charge of the balance seems not to have any clue what do with it or even play with the class at all.

    Rangers are easy because the meatbag the pet works as and makes the LB ranger an AFK class. Perfect for bots.

    I would love the pets to have low aggro like it is in WoW or any actual MMO so mobs target the ranger oftenly

    That would require the removal of Hunter shot since stealth forces aggro to swap to another ally or pet.
    I used to use that tactic a lot back when spirits were useful so I could solo stronger stuff with a glass build.

    Umm i dont understand your internal process there and relate hunters shot with remove aggro from the pet. On the contrary rangers would need to learn and use properly use of hunters shot and point blank shot if the pet wont aggro that much anymore.

    Yeh spirits unbound was fun. I have to agree with the pet zoo and visual noise issue, but now they could show them as wisps. I don't get why in a class which is designed to move constantly somebody would think to make the spirits to turn into ugly banners was a good idea.

    I was referring to how stealth works in regard to an enemies aggro.
    Giving the pet a lower aggro than the player wouldn't change anything if the player can stealth and force the enemy to aggro on the pet instead of them.
    Only way you could force the enemy to recognize the player over the pet would be code enemies to ignore pets entirely which could be exploited or remove the Ranger's ability to stealth and subsequently remove their ability to manipulate aggro which is what they would probably go with.

    I like spirits in concept, the old ones anyway.. I strongly dislike them in their current form.
    Diminishing hp has more or less killed them for me as they're just too easy to kill now, plus it makes no sense at all to me that every utility spirit has an offensive ability but teleports to me instead of my targeted enemy..
    Water and Nature Spirits I get.. porting to you to heal and revive but the other 4's abilities are completely wasted unless you're running pure melee build.

    Add to that their attack animation is far too long, more often than not against a strong enemy you pull a spirit to you and it's going to die before it gets off it's attack.
    They're really bad now imo so I stopped using them.

    I agree with you though, they should be wisps that follow you around.
    Dark Blue wisp for Water.
    Yellow for Sun, Purple for Storm, Light Blue for Frost, Brown/Green for Stone.
    Large glowing White wisp for Nature.

    I'd have them floating around above the players head the large nature one being the most obvious while the other wisps are smaller and fly around where the nature one would be whether it's active or not.
    Players would easily be able to see what spirits a Ranger currently has active this way unless there are tons of big players stacked on them or they have visual problems.
    I'd give wisps shorter range too so that you'll need to be closer to the Ranger to get their benefits, likewise though the utility wisps would be the only ones that teleport now and i'd have them teleport to enemies instead, explode instantly doing their effect and damage while buffing nearby allies before they make their way back to the Ranger buffing allies they pass along the way.

    The other change i'd make is to remove their hp and give them charges/ammo instead.. if we can't have spirits like we used to then get rid of the useless degenerating hp and just give them limited uses with CD.
    If this can be done without needing to summon them then even better, if not then have them insta summon upon clicking the base skill (like popping a signet) without needing an animation that takes away from another action such as attacking.

    Wisp buffs would return to their 33% chance on hit for whatever boon but could be traited for 100% every 3 seconds.
    Wisp active skills remain largely the same in function, utility wisps teleport to enemies freezing, blinding, dealing damage etc with the potential to trait these Wisps to give out might, protection, swiftness or burns depending on the spirit, while Water and Nature activate at your location with the potential to trait these Wisps to give out regen (water) and remove conditions (nature) while also being able to teleport to a selected ally's location to heal/revive them instead of you (using while targeting an enemy makes them activate at your location like normal)

    That's how i'd do this Wisp concept.. but that's just me.

    I don't understand your mental process there about the longbow.
    What you are suggesting makes no sense, nerfing longbow because you are nerfing how the pets aggro? So we nerf this because we are also nerfing that? It makes no sense at all, from my point of view there is no need to nerf anything in the ranger right now.

    The idea of lowering the aggro is to avoid the pet being used as meatshield in PvE being as they are invulnerable now.

    This is the only mmo where the pet can tank dungeons bosses while the ranger afk autottack for 40 minutes. If the point is to help rangers to understand the class, Why would you think devs would remove such mechanics?

    You're failing to understand how stealth works in this case.
    Lowering the aggro of the pet is completely pointless and irrelevant if the Ranger has access to a stealth skill.
    Stealth de-aggross the player and forces the enemy AI to aggro onto the pet or another player or NPC instead of you.
    If Devs wanted to make enemies focus the player over the pet they would either have to code them to do this which is time consuming and potentially buggy or they could just remove the Rangers ability to stealth which would be significantly easier to do.

    In short, so long as Ranger can stealth.. pets will always be able to be used as a Meatshield because of how enemy aggro works in the game.

    I guess for your comments you are an actual programmer so I'll be more technical

    • pets have a aggro index associated to their toughness, this is right now very high because the immunity they have in pve.
    • if the pets get assigned a much lower index then the ranger will have the higher one.
    • this means as long as the ranger is within the colission detection area of the mob object, the mob will chose the ranger over the pet.
    • If the ranger uses stealth the index goes to 0. The ranger object does not colission with the mob AoE.
    • As such the mobs attack the next index, in this case the pet which is not 0 but very low.
    • until the ranger comes up and gets detected.

    As you can see just changing one value we fixed the issue with the pets being just a meatshield. I don't see where new coding is being involved there.

    Not that either you or me work in anet as devs so sentences like 'this take to rework this or dev that' make much sense in this context.

    Nah not a programmer, only have experience to go on with enemy behaviour.

    As far as i'm aware the kind of toughness related aggro mechanics you mentioned only works with specific creatures like raid bosses etc that are designed to focus tank players in order for tank roles to play more a part in the content, I don't recall any enemies pre raids having this kind of behaviour.. I could be wrong though.

    Most common mobs from my experience tend to attack the first target that gets near them or attacks them (Ranger shooting target, target comes for ranger and ignores pet for example) and they occasionally change targets which I think has more to do with distance than stats or perhaps the last thing that hit them.
    I have a high toughness tank in PvE too but I never retain the boss's aggro completely in a groups even when I'm facetanking and I know everyone around me is dps, it still switches targets on occasion but I don't know exactly why they do this.

    Personally i'd rather pets get more diverse to play different roles.. more glassy pets, more tanky pets, more condi focused pets, support pets, CC pets and healing pets etc.
    If there's one thing about Ranger that does kind of bug me it's that there are a lot of pets that only differ by their F2 skills..
    Stat wise many of them are identical and that seems a bit wasteful to me.

    To take cats as an example.
    7 cat pets.. all identical stats.
    I'd rather they have differences like:
    Cheetah.. Average power, high precision, high ferocity, low toughness and vitality.. F2 quickness.
    Tiger.. High power, low precision, low ferocity, average toughness and high vitality.. F2 pounce and knockdown.
    Lynx.. low power, high precision, high condition damage, average toughtness and vitality.. F2 bleed and weakness.
    Jaguar.. Average across the board stats.. F2 teleport and reveal (WvW anti stealth pet)

    If pets were more diverse like this they'd feel far more unique and we'd probably see a lot of pets that currently don't get used or rarely get incorporated into more builds.

    Yes the switch targets is because some mobs take into account the amount of dps you do. It happens to me sometimes.

    I fully agree with you with rework the pets, but that seems to be a titanical job. I would even go as far as to say I wouldn't mind Anet to remove all the core pets, and add them back slowly when they create new pets based in the old ones (so they can use the code they have implemented in the new ones).

    If it would be my design I would keep the actual classification and normalization of the pets: Each family to share stats and automated attacks, just to keep the pet system easy to understand (felines are glass focus in dps, birds are glassiest focus in speed, dogs are cc oriented...) and stop with new families every new pet. This makes much difficult to organize and understand the pet system. For example: why smokescale can't be cathegorized into "canines" family. And bristleback into "spiders" family.

    I would rework the auto skills and the F2s thou, to actually make easier to understand which role are supposed to fill.
    For example and using the smokescale template as it seems balanced:
    Autoskill 1: autos.
    auto skill 2: An utility skill based in the family whoch defines the uses the ranger can give to the pet. felines can rip boons, dogs knockdown, birds can cast quickness and superspeed in self, pigs can cast resistance in self, ranged dps could hace a burst here.
    Autoskill 3: a close gap or utility which enforces the base role of the family skill : dps melee pets a closegap, tank pets an immunity, ranged dps pets an ranged AoE skill.

    F2 pet beast skill: rework those to enforce the specific pet the player has chosen. It is the skill the players use as such is better to provide utility over dmaage and left the damage skills for the autoskills. For example:
    Felines: This pets feel like single target pets with emphasys in power damage and cover conditions.
    lynx: apply Stalk effect on pet (without the bonus crit and ferocity) and next attack apply the bleeds.
    snow leopard: apply the stalk effect and 6s chill the next attack
    Cheeta: The shadowstep is moved to the autoskill -3 as leap, the same as the smokescale. F2 stalk + Apply quickness next attack
    Sand lion: stalk + blindness next attack.
    jungle stalker : stalk + 25 might to self in the next attack.
    Jaguar: stalk + immob in the next attack .
    etc....

    Dogs could provide AoE fields (without any other effect just the field for combo) around the pet.
    Fern hound: Water field and heal aoe
    Alpine Wolf: ice and short chill Aoe
    Krytan : poison + short immob
    wolf: dark + fear.
    etc...

    pigs could be oriented to self support with access to boons.
    bears for self tanking with direct regen and immunities..
    Moas for outgoing support with some f2 barriers and heals.
    drakes as AoE cleave dps with some soft CCs.
    And do the same organization for the ranged pets.
    etc...

    About revealing stealth, instead a family pet i would like a trait which would make the pets to ignore stealth and keep attacking an invisible target. This doesnt make the target visible to you can not tag it and use projectiles, but allows the ranger at least to know the wereabouts and be able to use melee. Which is fair game at that point IMO.

    But as i think this changes would take very long and i wouldn't expect any rework to pets very soon.

  • Engal.6359Engal.6359 Member ✭✭✭

    Its fun. And the range is great

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2019

    Range, especially that of the projectile variety doesn't mean all that much in this game unless you're fighting a necromancer.
    Everyone can close the gap far faster than you can maintain it and once that gap is closed you have to deal with getting beat on, switch to a melee weapon or forego putting pressure on them by stealthing to reposition. I still see people getting 100->0'd by thieves and mesmers from stealth more frequently than longbow soulbeasts. (Heck, maul soulbeasts down people more frequently than pewpewpew's.)
    The damage on the weapon is necessary, though admittedly if I'm just auto attacking and not swapping to another weapon its either because they're baxd, I'm bad or I have already won the fight. LRS doesn't see too much use so I didn't really notice the nerf.
    I'm more concerned about my muscle memory on sword being all skewed. I like the changes to greatsword (minus the change to auto) so I've just been using that.

    Between reflections, blocks, obscene HP with partial damage immunity, regentation, gap closing and crit negation I almost never bother fighting warriors anymore. Unless I desperately need to take what they're standing on and don't lose much for dying.

    ~ Kovu

    edit- weirdly, some of my best fights are against other rangers. I guess its because I know the profession better than I know other professions.

    Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    Range, especially that of the projectile variety doesn't mean all that much in this game unless you're fighting a necromancer.
    Everyone can close the gap far faster than you can maintain it and once that gap is closed you have to deal with getting beat on, switch to a melee weapon or forego putting pressure on them by stealthing to reposition. I still see people getting 100->0'd by thieves and mesmers from stealth more frequently than longbow soulbeasts. (Heck, maul soulbeasts down people more frequently than pewpewpew's.)
    The damage on the weapon is necessary, though admittedly if I'm just auto attacking and not swapping to another weapon its either because they're baxd, I'm bad or I have already won the fight. LRS doesn't see too much use so I didn't really notice the nerf.
    I'm more concerned about my muscle memory on sword being all skewed. I like the changes to greatsword (minus the change to auto) so I've just been using that.

    Between reflections, blocks, obscene HP with partial damage immunity, regentation, gap closing and crit negation I almost never bother fighting warriors anymore. Unless I desperately need to take what they're standing on and don't lose much for dying.

    ~ Kovu

    edit- weirdly, some of my best fights are against other rangers. I guess its because I know the profession better than I know other professions.

    Even a reaper can close up really fast if you don't actively try to keep them at bay. Really i never understood all this whining for 300 range extra over the standard 1200.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    Range, especially that of the projectile variety doesn't mean all that much in this game unless you're fighting a necromancer.
    Everyone can close the gap far faster than you can maintain it and once that gap is closed you have to deal with getting beat on, switch to a melee weapon or forego putting pressure on them by stealthing to reposition. I still see people getting 100->0'd by thieves and mesmers from stealth more frequently than longbow soulbeasts. (Heck, maul soulbeasts down people more frequently than pewpewpew's.)
    The damage on the weapon is necessary, though admittedly if I'm just auto attacking and not swapping to another weapon its either because they're baxd, I'm bad or I have already won the fight. LRS doesn't see too much use so I didn't really notice the nerf.
    I'm more concerned about my muscle memory on sword being all skewed. I like the changes to greatsword (minus the change to auto) so I've just been using that.

    Between reflections, blocks, obscene HP with partial damage immunity, regentation, gap closing and crit negation I almost never bother fighting warriors anymore. Unless I desperately need to take what they're standing on and don't lose much for dying.

    ~ Kovu

    edit- weirdly, some of my best fights are against other rangers. I guess its because I know the profession better than I know other professions.

    Even a reaper can close up really fast if you don't actively try to keep them at bay. Really i never understood all this whining for 300 range extra over the standard 1200.

    Careful, you'll trigger all of the people who will point out the actual range of ~1,800.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Here's the reason ppl do LB im wvw : LB#4 triggers quickness sigil which gives 5 s of quickness followed by RF without using utilities. Axe is better melee, but it cant kite at all. LB stealth has lower CD than smokescale blast with WH. So with LB you have 2 sources of stealth vs 1, which is important for 1v1/1vX.

    Also, Lb is easier to land dmg with at safer distances. Axe is 900 range, lb is 1500. Secondly, if you run double axe, axe #5 is too easy to avoid.

  • Sansar.1302Sansar.1302 Member ✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:
    Here's the reason ppl do LB im wvw : LB#4 triggers quickness sigil which gives 5 s of quickness followed by RF without using utilities. Axe is better melee, but it cant kite at all. LB stealth has lower CD than smokescale blast with WH. So with LB you have 2 sources of stealth vs 1, which is important for 1v1/1vX.

    Also, Lb is easier to land dmg with at safer distances. Axe is 900 range, lb is 1500. Secondly, if you run double axe, axe #5 is too easy to avoid.

    NO axe mainhand is WAY better 1v1 AND 1vX, LB in a 1v1 any decent person is would punish you, and axe kite very well with 5 target chill. (if traited)
    Wh offhand 4 more boons and healing, axe off hand is ok-ish
    Stealth on ranger is very situational and often not the best play as ranger have low dmg output so you need to do constant dps to kill or cleave downs (esp more sustain oriented build)
    id say make lb 1200 range so ppl stop crying then buff all dmg exept auto 30 -50% Remove hunter shot as it fails too mutch and cant be relied on. (Ranger used to not have stealth at all )

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I just use it because if someone is lacking a reflect or doesn't time their blocks just right you can down them with one skill. That said I greatly prefer to fight in melee with the GS but there's just those stubborn targets that you need to obliterate from absurd range.

    Mostly other 1-shotters like Mesmers, ironically.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay | Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW) | ♀♥♀

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sansar.1302 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    Here's the reason ppl do LB im wvw : LB#4 triggers quickness sigil which gives 5 s of quickness followed by RF without using utilities. Axe is better melee, but it cant kite at all. LB stealth has lower CD than smokescale blast with WH. So with LB you have 2 sources of stealth vs 1, which is important for 1v1/1vX.

    Also, Lb is easier to land dmg with at safer distances. Axe is 900 range, lb is 1500. Secondly, if you run double axe, axe #5 is too easy to avoid.

    NO axe mainhand is WAY better 1v1 AND 1vX, LB in a 1v1 any decent person is would punish you, and axe kite very well with 5 target chill. (if traited)
    Wh offhand 4 more boons and healing, axe off hand is ok-ish
    Stealth on ranger is very situational and often not the best play as ranger have low dmg output so you need to do constant dps to kill or cleave downs (esp more sustain oriented build)
    id say make lb 1200 range so ppl stop crying then buff all dmg exept auto 30 -50% Remove hunter shot as it fails too mutch and cant be relied on. (Ranger used to not have stealth at all )

    This guy doesn't play longbow right.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sansar.1302 said:

    id say make lb 1200 range so ppl stop crying then buff all dmg exept auto 30 -50% Remove hunter shot as it fails too mutch and cant be relied on. (Ranger used to not have stealth at all )

    As a casual PvEer, I abhor this suggestion.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sansar.1302 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    Here's the reason ppl do LB im wvw : LB#4 triggers quickness sigil which gives 5 s of quickness followed by RF without using utilities. Axe is better melee, but it cant kite at all. LB stealth has lower CD than smokescale blast with WH. So with LB you have 2 sources of stealth vs 1, which is important for 1v1/1vX.

    Also, Lb is easier to land dmg with at safer distances. Axe is 900 range, lb is 1500. Secondly, if you run double axe, axe #5 is too easy to avoid.

    NO axe mainhand is WAY better 1v1 AND 1vX, LB in a 1v1 any decent person is would punish you, and axe kite very well with 5 target chill. (if traited)
    Wh offhand 4 more boons and healing, axe off hand is ok-ish
    Stealth on ranger is very situational and often not the best play as ranger have low dmg output so you need to do constant dps to kill or cleave downs (esp more sustain oriented build)
    id say make lb 1200 range so ppl stop crying then buff all dmg exept auto 30 -50% Remove hunter shot as it fails too mutch and cant be relied on. (Ranger used to not have stealth at all )

    Wrong. You can't kite 5 people with aoe chill as well as you can with stealth. Condi clears, teleports, leaps, jumps. You name it. Stealth only has 1 counter and that is reveal. Thus stealth is more versatile. It allows you to relocate and then get the first shot. Only way axe wins a 1v1 if the fighting area is small. If not, the fight will stall. ( Both usually have enough sustain to not die. )

    Also, LB RF hits harder than axe #3. They have the same cooldown. Axe doesn't proc quick quickness sigil..
    Axe #2 deals nearly no dmg unless you are literally in melee range.

  • Sansar.1302Sansar.1302 Member ✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Sansar.1302 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    Here's the reason ppl do LB im wvw : LB#4 triggers quickness sigil which gives 5 s of quickness followed by RF without using utilities. Axe is better melee, but it cant kite at all. LB stealth has lower CD than smokescale blast with WH. So with LB you have 2 sources of stealth vs 1, which is important for 1v1/1vX.

    Also, Lb is easier to land dmg with at safer distances. Axe is 900 range, lb is 1500. Secondly, if you run double axe, axe #5 is too easy to avoid.

    NO axe mainhand is WAY better 1v1 AND 1vX, LB in a 1v1 any decent person is would punish you, and axe kite very well with 5 target chill. (if traited)
    Wh offhand 4 more boons and healing, axe off hand is ok-ish
    Stealth on ranger is very situational and often not the best play as ranger have low dmg output so you need to do constant dps to kill or cleave downs (esp more sustain oriented build)
    id say make lb 1200 range so ppl stop crying then buff all dmg exept auto 30 -50% Remove hunter shot as it fails too mutch and cant be relied on. (Ranger used to not have stealth at all )

    Wrong. You can't kite 5 people with aoe chill as well as you can with stealth. Condi clears, teleports, leaps, jumps. You name it. Stealth only has 1 counter and that is reveal. Thus stealth is more versatile. It allows you to relocate and then get the first shot. Only way axe wins a 1v1 if the fighting area is small. If not, the fight will stall. ( Both usually have enough sustain to not die. )

    Also, LB RF hits harder than axe #3. They have the same cooldown. Axe doesn't proc quick quickness sigil..
    Axe #2 deals nearly no dmg unless you are literally in melee range.

    I cant see any good with lb it is only a +1 weapon ( best used when adding )

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sansar.1302 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Sansar.1302 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    Here's the reason ppl do LB im wvw : LB#4 triggers quickness sigil which gives 5 s of quickness followed by RF without using utilities. Axe is better melee, but it cant kite at all. LB stealth has lower CD than smokescale blast with WH. So with LB you have 2 sources of stealth vs 1, which is important for 1v1/1vX.

    Also, Lb is easier to land dmg with at safer distances. Axe is 900 range, lb is 1500. Secondly, if you run double axe, axe #5 is too easy to avoid.

    NO axe mainhand is WAY better 1v1 AND 1vX, LB in a 1v1 any decent person is would punish you, and axe kite very well with 5 target chill. (if traited)
    Wh offhand 4 more boons and healing, axe off hand is ok-ish
    Stealth on ranger is very situational and often not the best play as ranger have low dmg output so you need to do constant dps to kill or cleave downs (esp more sustain oriented build)
    id say make lb 1200 range so ppl stop crying then buff all dmg exept auto 30 -50% Remove hunter shot as it fails too mutch and cant be relied on. (Ranger used to not have stealth at all )

    Wrong. You can't kite 5 people with aoe chill as well as you can with stealth. Condi clears, teleports, leaps, jumps. You name it. Stealth only has 1 counter and that is reveal. Thus stealth is more versatile. It allows you to relocate and then get the first shot. Only way axe wins a 1v1 if the fighting area is small. If not, the fight will stall. ( Both usually have enough sustain to not die. )

    Also, LB RF hits harder than axe #3. They have the same cooldown. Axe doesn't proc quick quickness sigil..
    Axe #2 deals nearly no dmg unless you are literally in melee range.

    I cant see any good with lb it is only a +1 weapon ( best used when adding )

    Then you probably just don't know how to play it right. Nothing wrong with that. I don't know how to use sword or offhand dagger either.

  • Sansar.1302Sansar.1302 Member ✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Sansar.1302 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Sansar.1302 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    Here's the reason ppl do LB im wvw : LB#4 triggers quickness sigil which gives 5 s of quickness followed by RF without using utilities. Axe is better melee, but it cant kite at all. LB stealth has lower CD than smokescale blast with WH. So with LB you have 2 sources of stealth vs 1, which is important for 1v1/1vX.

    Also, Lb is easier to land dmg with at safer distances. Axe is 900 range, lb is 1500. Secondly, if you run double axe, axe #5 is too easy to avoid.

    NO axe mainhand is WAY better 1v1 AND 1vX, LB in a 1v1 any decent person is would punish you, and axe kite very well with 5 target chill. (if traited)
    Wh offhand 4 more boons and healing, axe off hand is ok-ish
    Stealth on ranger is very situational and often not the best play as ranger have low dmg output so you need to do constant dps to kill or cleave downs (esp more sustain oriented build)
    id say make lb 1200 range so ppl stop crying then buff all dmg exept auto 30 -50% Remove hunter shot as it fails too mutch and cant be relied on. (Ranger used to not have stealth at all )

    Wrong. You can't kite 5 people with aoe chill as well as you can with stealth. Condi clears, teleports, leaps, jumps. You name it. Stealth only has 1 counter and that is reveal. Thus stealth is more versatile. It allows you to relocate and then get the first shot. Only way axe wins a 1v1 if the fighting area is small. If not, the fight will stall. ( Both usually have enough sustain to not die. )

    Also, LB RF hits harder than axe #3. They have the same cooldown. Axe doesn't proc quick quickness sigil..
    Axe #2 deals nearly no dmg unless you are literally in melee range.

    I cant see any good with lb it is only a +1 weapon ( best used when adding )

    Then you probably just don't know how to play it right. Nothing wrong with that. I don't know how to use sword or offhand dagger either.

    Yes cant get it to work as good as other weapons (ofc with so many non pvp players I get to "work" to a degree, but never against any of the skilled roamers ) but when I almost always kan kill 2 rangers (or SB) IF they use lb I realized that its bad and stopped using it. ( salvaged all my accended longbows :( )

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sansar.1302 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Sansar.1302 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Sansar.1302 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    Here's the reason ppl do LB im wvw : LB#4 triggers quickness sigil which gives 5 s of quickness followed by RF without using utilities. Axe is better melee, but it cant kite at all. LB stealth has lower CD than smokescale blast with WH. So with LB you have 2 sources of stealth vs 1, which is important for 1v1/1vX.

    Also, Lb is easier to land dmg with at safer distances. Axe is 900 range, lb is 1500. Secondly, if you run double axe, axe #5 is too easy to avoid.

    NO axe mainhand is WAY better 1v1 AND 1vX, LB in a 1v1 any decent person is would punish you, and axe kite very well with 5 target chill. (if traited)
    Wh offhand 4 more boons and healing, axe off hand is ok-ish
    Stealth on ranger is very situational and often not the best play as ranger have low dmg output so you need to do constant dps to kill or cleave downs (esp more sustain oriented build)
    id say make lb 1200 range so ppl stop crying then buff all dmg exept auto 30 -50% Remove hunter shot as it fails too mutch and cant be relied on. (Ranger used to not have stealth at all )

    Wrong. You can't kite 5 people with aoe chill as well as you can with stealth. Condi clears, teleports, leaps, jumps. You name it. Stealth only has 1 counter and that is reveal. Thus stealth is more versatile. It allows you to relocate and then get the first shot. Only way axe wins a 1v1 if the fighting area is small. If not, the fight will stall. ( Both usually have enough sustain to not die. )

    Also, LB RF hits harder than axe #3. They have the same cooldown. Axe doesn't proc quick quickness sigil..
    Axe #2 deals nearly no dmg unless you are literally in melee range.

    I cant see any good with lb it is only a +1 weapon ( best used when adding )

    Then you probably just don't know how to play it right. Nothing wrong with that. I don't know how to use sword or offhand dagger either.

    Yes cant get it to work as good as other weapons (ofc with so many non pvp players I get to "work" to a degree, but never against any of the skilled roamers ) but when I almost always kan kill 2 rangers (or SB) IF they use lb I realized that its bad and stopped using it. ( salvaged all my accended longbows :( )

    A lot of rangers are really bad. What you're describing is EXACTLY why most rangers are worse players than most other classes.

    Everyone fights the newbie ranger players, thus think rangers are bad. This myth is then perpetuated by others, making the newbie ranger players think they have to swap class cus ranger is bad.

    They swap class, forget ranger exist, and after playing for 2-3 years, they are finally good on their new class. Then they see newbie ranger in wvw, kill them ( cus they are new to game ) and the myth lives on forever.

    That's why i, who can 1v1 and win against like 99% of enemy wvw server and win on first try, still get chased down by necros 1v1 even tho necros are weak in 1v1 cus they rely on support.

    Soulbeast is not weak, and neither is longbow. Axe isn't necessarily weak, but it objectively speaking deals less dmg unless you're fighting in melee range.

  • KeyOrion.9506KeyOrion.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    Bow is still viable. The idea of ranger using a bow is to do as much damage to the target, before the target gets up in your face hand to hand. Once the enemy has crossed the distance will a ranger switch to up close hand to hand weapons. Do damage at range, enemy gets to close quarters, switch to close quarters weaponry. Originally SEVEN YEARS AGO...it was a viable method of punishing the enemy for closing the distance to hit a ranger. With today's permaboons...it's effectively useless, with perma reflects, perma shields, perma regen every second.....I fricken hate boons. Think it's really messed up viable combat.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Sansar.1302 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Sansar.1302 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    Here's the reason ppl do LB im wvw : LB#4 triggers quickness sigil which gives 5 s of quickness followed by RF without using utilities. Axe is better melee, but it cant kite at all. LB stealth has lower CD than smokescale blast with WH. So with LB you have 2 sources of stealth vs 1, which is important for 1v1/1vX.

    Also, Lb is easier to land dmg with at safer distances. Axe is 900 range, lb is 1500. Secondly, if you run double axe, axe #5 is too easy to avoid.

    NO axe mainhand is WAY better 1v1 AND 1vX, LB in a 1v1 any decent person is would punish you, and axe kite very well with 5 target chill. (if traited)
    Wh offhand 4 more boons and healing, axe off hand is ok-ish
    Stealth on ranger is very situational and often not the best play as ranger have low dmg output so you need to do constant dps to kill or cleave downs (esp more sustain oriented build)
    id say make lb 1200 range so ppl stop crying then buff all dmg exept auto 30 -50% Remove hunter shot as it fails too mutch and cant be relied on. (Ranger used to not have stealth at all )

    Wrong. You can't kite 5 people with aoe chill as well as you can with stealth. Condi clears, teleports, leaps, jumps. You name it. Stealth only has 1 counter and that is reveal. Thus stealth is more versatile. It allows you to relocate and then get the first shot. Only way axe wins a 1v1 if the fighting area is small. If not, the fight will stall. ( Both usually have enough sustain to not die. )

    Also, LB RF hits harder than axe #3. They have the same cooldown. Axe doesn't proc quick quickness sigil..
    Axe #2 deals nearly no dmg unless you are literally in melee range.

    I cant see any good with lb it is only a +1 weapon ( best used when adding )

    Then you probably just don't know how to play it right. Nothing wrong with that. I don't know how to use sword or offhand dagger either.

    I agree with Sansar, Longbow is a +1 weapon and a noob finisher. That weapon is trash tier against 1v1 or 1vX if the other players know what are they doing. Based in your experience which should be mainly in WvW where there most roamers are pretty bad I understand where you come from still doesn't make you right.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Sansar.1302 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Sansar.1302 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    Here's the reason ppl do LB im wvw : LB#4 triggers quickness sigil which gives 5 s of quickness followed by RF without using utilities. Axe is better melee, but it cant kite at all. LB stealth has lower CD than smokescale blast with WH. So with LB you have 2 sources of stealth vs 1, which is important for 1v1/1vX.

    Also, Lb is easier to land dmg with at safer distances. Axe is 900 range, lb is 1500. Secondly, if you run double axe, axe #5 is too easy to avoid.

    NO axe mainhand is WAY better 1v1 AND 1vX, LB in a 1v1 any decent person is would punish you, and axe kite very well with 5 target chill. (if traited)
    Wh offhand 4 more boons and healing, axe off hand is ok-ish
    Stealth on ranger is very situational and often not the best play as ranger have low dmg output so you need to do constant dps to kill or cleave downs (esp more sustain oriented build)
    id say make lb 1200 range so ppl stop crying then buff all dmg exept auto 30 -50% Remove hunter shot as it fails too mutch and cant be relied on. (Ranger used to not have stealth at all )

    Wrong. You can't kite 5 people with aoe chill as well as you can with stealth. Condi clears, teleports, leaps, jumps. You name it. Stealth only has 1 counter and that is reveal. Thus stealth is more versatile. It allows you to relocate and then get the first shot. Only way axe wins a 1v1 if the fighting area is small. If not, the fight will stall. ( Both usually have enough sustain to not die. )

    Also, LB RF hits harder than axe #3. They have the same cooldown. Axe doesn't proc quick quickness sigil..
    Axe #2 deals nearly no dmg unless you are literally in melee range.

    I cant see any good with lb it is only a +1 weapon ( best used when adding )

    Then you probably just don't know how to play it right. Nothing wrong with that. I don't know how to use sword or offhand dagger either.

    I agree with Sansar, Longbow is a +1 weapon and a noob finisher. That weapon is trash tier against 1v1 or 1vX if the other players know what are they doing. Based in your experience which should be mainly in WvW where there most roamers are pretty bad I understand where you come from still doesn't make you right.

    No, longbow is bad in spvp because of limited space and node fighting.

    Obviously, when you have to fight in a very small space and fighting outside of that space is bad, longbow doesn't work.

    I don't use longbow in spvp either, I use axe. Also, axe offhand seems to do significantly more dmg in spvp than it does in wvw.

    But in wvw, when there's a lot more space to kite and fight, longbow is just better. Axe #5 is merely a noob killer, as people with half a brain don't run into a soulbeast on axe without having a stun breaker or condi cleanse ready. Freedom of movement renders axe offhand nearly useless.

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭✭

    These guys are apparently just not good enough with longbow. It's by far one of our best weapons for PvP especially when paired with GS.