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Balance Patch Preview - WvW


Cal Cohen.2358

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Yeah, i think the whole "increase the TTK to pander to the people who were whining about how its too fast" is a huge step in the wrong direction. The fast pace of fighting and low TTK is the one thing that really set this game apart from the competition. If its gonna be a tank fest, might as well go play a certain other MMO...

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To all of you just looking at your one class:

They are treating most of the existing balance roughly the same over all classes. Going forward that is obviously not the way to balance out classes but like CMC is stating in the announcement - this is not a balance pass it is to set a new base point - balance passes will come later. Almost every single one of these changes slashes things down towards 0.5 of previous values. The healing stuff seems to gravitate closer to 0.5 slashes with more diversity among the damage stuff. Assuming the healing-damage balance values were scuffed and only obscured by the damage-tank values: that doesn't have to be a bad thing.

Obviously they will need to iterate on the changes and look for class balances going forward while keeping somewhat of an urgency of that considering for how short of a time we have been in the recent better balance. However, nothing in this thread stands out from what has been communicated: This is a broad sweeping slash. Balance is for later and balance issues will appear. Hopefully the sweep is broad enough to at least let the imbalances that appear feel like "fresh" problems for a while. When this patch drops however, do not expect the typical class-class (or my class!) balance that people tend to stare themselves blind on to be better than it is now. Expect it to be worse for a while. Expect broader systemic things to work better.

Most of this stuff is as expected and will bring about a much needed return to base tank values again. If there is any disappointment with the information at this point in time, it would be the kind of stuff that Lhiash brings up above. I really thought they would be looking into some of the more glaring design (as opposed to balance) problems with a select few specialisations. Some of them have issues with whatever role they are designed for and now would have been a good time to adress that before making balance passes. The Deadeye is a poor design. The Druid has design issues with its role etc. Those are not balance issues or base figure issues. They are design issues and would be good to get out of the way quickly.

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The power creep nerf is something i see as a pretty decent change and overall making sure people stop spamming their skills randomly is also pretty healthy. This kind of nerf encourages people who do teamwork to get the best results, while those who want to stay unorganized with spam mentality, will get punished.However theres one big thing i noticed that catched my eyes and im certain that most people dont like:

Please do not nerf the condition cleanse amount and its boon conversion.As much as people dislike the current power creep meta, the condition meta we had before was far more worse. Nerfing cleanses will make condition return again.

There is still a ton of conditions in game that hit HARD and thats something nobody wants to see be returned again. Right now the changes are more favoring condition orientation meta into the upcoming changes.Also if youre gona nerf healing then also nerf siege as nobody can survive that with lowered healing.

Nerf condi cleanse from current status = get condition meta.

Leave condi cleanse alone and you may have a mix of both condi and power but my guess is leaning on more to power side.

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Well one thing is for certain everything will feel like wet noodle hits as we are going back to sustain and condi meta. The power creep was a problem, but it would of been nice too still have a fast phased game. When these extreme changes goes live it's going to feel like your gathering when your actually engaging in a fight. I am pretty sure Anet took this a bit to far so to speak.

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@"Lhiash.4910" said:No nerfs to perma stealth DE? They still can port people after easily hiding in keeps, really adding portal to thief was the worst design decision you guys made.

Giving portals to thieves was the "...Worst idea since someone said, ‘Yeah, let’s take this suspiciously large wooden horse into Troy. Statues are all the rage this season. - Blackadder".

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@"subversiontwo.7501" said:To all of you just looking at your one class:

They are treating most of the existing balance roughly the same over all classes. Going forward that is obviously not the way to balance out classes but like CMC is stating in the announcement - this is not a balance pass it is to set a new base point - balance passes will come later. Almost every single one of these changes slashes things down towards 0.5 of previous values. The healing stuff seems to gravitate closer to 0.5 slashes with more diversity among the damage stuff. Assuming the healing-damage balance values were scuffed and only obscured by the damage-tank values: that doesn't have to be a bad thing.

Obviously they will need to iterate on the changes and look for class balances going forward while keeping somewhat of an urgency of that considering for how short of a time we have been in the recent better balance. However, nothing in this thread stands out from what has been communicated: This is a broad sweeping slash. Balance is for later and balance issues will appear. Hopefully the sweep is broad enough to at least let the imbalances that appear feel like "fresh" problems for a while. When this patch drops however, do not expect the typical class-class (or my class!) balance that people tend to stare themselves blind on to be better than it is now. Expect it to be worse for a while. Expect broader systemic things to work better.

Classes are so different in GW2 that applying the same damage reduction across the board is a bad idea.

I just hope that enough people remain playing this lovely game through this new balance and iteration process...

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wvw new linkings <3 and only 4 tiers now AMAZING FINALLY, and now all these notes telling us everything we wanted to hear, maybe fights will last more than 30s now. No more 1 shotting people hopefully giving people more time to react. Nerf to boon rip and damage and healing really good proposed changes. Still more to do but for once i actually am looking forward to the future of this game.

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@RedBaron.6058 said:Classes are so different in GW2 that applying the same damage reduction across the board is a bad idea.

I just hope that enough people remain playing this lovely game through this new balance and iteration process...You are right, but this was, for once, exactly what was advertised so its pretty pointless to get all riled up right now.

I also believe it was something that needed to be done. I just hope they succeed within a reasonable timeframe so that people have no objective reason to be riled up. If some people then subjectively goes off the rails, well that's on them. If people couldn't see this comming they have not been paying attention.

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[general]You are nerfing healing but no condition builds. I foresee all meta will shift to condition meta in trailblazzers which is no good. Classes with no effective condition builds like the ranger will be totally deleted and forgotten.

[ranger]

  • Doylak stance: It's not a good idea to increase the cooldown its the only skill the ranger can use relialibly for stability. Remove the damage reduction instead. That skill is over bloated with effects. Edit: After some thought i see the game in general has been toned down in stability access, maybe this change is not that bad after all. I still think instead increasing the CD the devs could move the damage reduction to the Bear Stance instead, so that healing skill becomes more competitive with the other heals as right now is not used at all.

  • AXE OH Path of scars : is a very clunky skill, too fast to be used as tides of times, too slow to be used as a pull. Increase the radius of the skill AoE so is easier to hit otherwise that skill will be useless.

  • AXE OH whirling defense : That skill need to allow the ranger move while channeling or something else. The only value of that skill is the damage it would deliver in the first 2 hits as enemy players can avoid it just walking to a side. Reducing the damage will make that skill useless and unwanted.

  • Taste for Danger and Sharpened Edges : Conditions on ranger are very short in all weapons. Condition builds are not used in pvp because of this. There is no point or need to nerf condition duration until the ranger get some actual condi build

  • Beastly warden: No need for the nerf. Beast abilities already have 1s cast. You add another second, its going to be ridiculously long delay between the click ofmthe button and the actual effect.

  • Hunters call : It needs to hit more than 1 target otherwise the damage is already pretty low how it is now. I don't see the sense of the nerf.

  • Heal as One has a 20s CD in WvW . Does this mean it gets a 50% CD increase in this game mode? There are more CDs changes in there which use the pvp values and not the wvw ones.

  • the core pets cant hit any moving targets, as they can't right now any nerfs are unwarranted. Do please fix the pets so they can follow and hit their target consistently.

The rest of the nerfs i like them or i don't have an opinion.

Still ranger does not have a possibility of a zerg build in any of its specialitations . Please have a look into that as it making an already bullied class into a meme with those wild balance swings where it goes from broken to deleted.

Do please increase the stance sharing to 100% duration in leader of the pack.

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Leave condition cleanse alone. We dont want condition meta again.

Additionally most of the crowd control skills are ranged with long ranged distance casting. Throw in corruptions also and nobody can go for any sort of melee pushes with 1 or 2 second stability duration. Be real here. Why are you pushing pirateship with condition on us again?

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@allshallperish.4620 said:wvw new linkings <3 and only 4 tiers now AMAZING FINALLY, and now all these notes telling us everything we wanted to hear, maybe fights will last more than 30s now. No more 1 shotting people hopefully giving people more time to react. Nerf to boon rip and damage and healing really good proposed changes. Still more to do but for once i actually am looking forward to the future of this game.

hasnt there always been 4 tiers in wvw?

as far as the relink goes it might be good for you but they linking my server with the same anchor we have had 3 times in the last year - its time for a long (maybe permanent) gw2 break because I cant see spending any money on gems to transfer and as time goes on it seems highly unlikely we will ever see alliances happen unless anet figures out a way to monetize it

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Yup> @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

they nerfed overall condi stacks as well.

I did notice it but its pretty minor nerf given how many condis there are in this game, how fast is the re appliance rate and so on. A full blown blob with condis will still shred everyone to pieces with half a bazillion condis. Even now you can barely keep up with the condi cleanse and the only reason its not condi meta atm is cause of power creep is stronger.Back at the end of condi meta when antitoxin rune was new to most people and scrappers got reworked. The top scrappers in my squad got 2000 condi cleanses casually. On the longest fights we had in keeps, top scrappers cleansed around to 5000-6000 conditions in a fight. Keep in mind back then scrapper condi cleanse was very OP amongst with antitoxin.

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@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@RedBaron.6058 said:Classes are so different in GW2 that applying the same damage reduction across the board is a bad idea.

I just hope that enough people remain playing this lovely game through this new balance and iteration process...You are right, but this was, for once, exactly what was advertised to its pretty pointless to get all riled up right now.

I also believe it was something that needed to be done. I just hope they succeed within a reasonable timeframe so that people have no objective reason to be riled up. If some people then subjectively goes off the rails, well that's on them. If people couldn't see this comming they have not been paying attention.

ANet needs to create 3 algorithms - PvE, PvP and WvW - to balance all classes considering a number of factors like Damage, Mitigation, CC, Mobility, Healing, etc.

For example, the value of mobility is different in PvE, WvW and PvP.

And if Damage is what ANet wants to reduce, then they need to balance the other factors to compensate across classes.

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