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PVP mesmer changes -> Discussion ( ill edit in my thoughts later propably )


Leonidrex.5649

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MesmerProfession MechanicsEXTRA CHANGES

Signet of Domination: Slowed down the animation so the stun occurs at 560ms (up from 360ms)Spatial Surge: Now displays damage maximum then minimum in description.Mirror Blade: Fixed a bug which caused this skill to play its slashing effect on the player instead of its target. Cooldown reduced from 8s to 5s. Rather than inflict 1.0/0.6 dmg per hit, it now reduces the damage on future bounces by 15% each time.Mind Stab: Cooldown reduced from 12 to 10 seconds. No longer removes boons. It now inflicts cripple instead. 5s in PvE, likely to be reduced in PvP/WvW.Phantasmal Berserker: Cooldown reduced from 15 seconds to 12 seconds. No longer cripples, instead the projectile removes 2 boons. Projectile no longer boomerangs.Confounding Suggestions: This trait has been retired and been replaced with Bountiful Blades.Bountiful Blades (NEW): Mirror Blades bounces 2 additional times. Phantasmal Berserker summons an additional berserker and they each deal less damage (33% instead of 25% less damage.Imagined Burden: This trait has been retired and been replaced with Vicious Expression.Vicious Expression (NEW): You and your illusions deal increased damage to foes without boons. Disabling a foe removes 2 boons in PvE, and 1 boon in PvP and WvW.Elusive Mind: This trait no longer stunbreaks or inflicts exhaustion. Increased the number of conditions cleansed from 1 to 3 in PvE, and to 2 in PvP and WvW.

Shatters

Mind Wrack: Adjusted as follows.One Clone Shattered: Reduced power coefficient from 1.15 to 1.0Two Clones Shattered: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.92 to 0.7Three Clones Shattered: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.805 to 0.613Chrono Shatters

Split Second: Adjusted as follows.One Clone Shattered: Reduced power coefficient from 1.15 to 1.0Two Clones Shattered: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.92 to 0.7Three Clones Shattered: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.805 to 0.613Weapons

Greatsword

Spatial Surge: Reduced minimum power coefficient per strike from 0.23 to 0.15. Reduced maximum power coefficient from 0.335 to 0.223Mirror Blade: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 8 secondsMind Stab: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.7Phantasmal Berserker: Reduced phantasm power coefficient per strike from 0.23 to 0.15Illusionary Wave: Reduced power coefficient from 0.3 to 0.01. Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 secondsStaff

Winds of Chaos: Reduced power coefficient from 0.3 to 0.2Phase Retreat: Increased cooldown from 10 seconds to 12 secondsPhantasmal Warlock: WvW will now use the PvP version of the skill (1 warlock summoned)Scepter

Autoattack Chain: Reduced power coefficients from 0.5/0.5/0.75 to 0.333/0.333/0.5Illusionary Counter: Increased cooldown from 8 seconds to 12 seconds. WvW will now use the PvP version of the skill (1 clone summoned)Confusing Images: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.38 to 0.255Sword

Autoattack Chain: Adjusted as follows

Mind Slash: Reduced power coefficient from 0.75 to 0.5Mind Gash: Reduced power coefficient from 0.75 to 0.5Mind Spike: Reduced base power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.666. Reduced power coefficient against foes with no boons from 2.0 to 1.333Blurred Frenzy: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.2564 to 0.128

Sword OH

Illusionary Riposte: Reduced power coefficient from 2.0 to 1.0Phantasmal Swordsman: Reduced power coefficient of the phantasm leap attack from 0.5 to 0.35, Reduced power coefficient per strike of the phantasm flurry attack from 0.15 to 0.1Focus

Phantasmal Warden: Reduced power coefficient per strike of the warden attack from 0.138 to 0.1Pistol

Phantasmal Duelist: Reduced power coefficient per strike of the phantasm attack from 0.115 to 0.1Magic Bullet: Reduced power coefficient from 0.2 to 0.01. Reduced stun duration from 2.5 seconds to 2 secondsTorch

The Prestige: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.5Shield

Tides of Time: Reduced power coefficient from 0.8 to 0.01Axe

Autoattack Chain: Reduced power coefficients from 0.55/0.55/1.1 to 0.366/0.366/0.732Lingering Thoughts: Increased ammo recharge from 10 seconds to 12 secondsAxes of Symmetry: Increased cooldown from 10 seconds to 15 secondsHeal

Ether Feast: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 secondsMantra of Recovery: Increased cooldown from 10 seconds to 18 secondsMirror: Increased cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 secondsSignet of the Ether: Reduced illusion summon base heal from 350 to 297Well of Eternity: Reduced initial base heal from 3230 to 2099. Reduced ending heal coefficient from 1.2 to 0.8False Oasis: Reduced pulse base heal from 1620 to 1215. Reduced pulse heal coefficient from 0.5 to 0.2Utility

Decoy: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 45 secondsMirror Images: Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 35 secondsArcane Thievery: Reduced quickness and slow duration from 4 seconds to 2 secondsBlink: Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 35 secondsMantra of Concentration: Increased cooldown from 15 seconds to 60 seconds. Increased ammo recharge from 30 seconds to 45 secondsMantra of Distraction: Reduced diversion recharge from 15 seconds to 10 seconds

Power Lock (from Mantra of Distraction): Reduced daze duration from 1.5 seconds to 1 secondPower Spike (from Mantra of Pain): Reduced power coefficient from 1.33 to 0.45. Adjusted vulnerability from 5 stacks for 8 seconds to 12 stacks for 6 seconds

Mantra of Resolve: Increased cooldown from 12 seconds to 25 secondsSignet of Midnight: Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 35 secondsWell of Action: Reduced quickness duration from 5 seconds to 3 secondsWell of Precognition: Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 45 secondsSand Through Glass: Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 30 secondsElite

Mass Invisibility: Increased cooldown from 60 seconds to 75 secondsGravity Well: Reduced pulse power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.01. Reduced final power coefficient from 2.4 to 0.01 Reduced cooldown from 90 seconds to 60 secondsTraits

Domination

Dazzling: Reduced vulnerability duration from 8 seconds to 6 secondsRending Shatter: Reduced vulnerability duration from 8 seconds to 6 secondsFurious Interruption: Reduced quickness duration from 3 seconds to 2 secondsPower Block: Reduced weakness duration from 5 seconds to 3 secondsDueling

Sharper Images: Reduced bleeding duration from 5 seconds to 2 secondsDesperate Decoy: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 120 secondsDuelist's Discipline: Reduced bleeding duration from 3 seconds to 2 secondsEvasive Mirror: Reduced mirror duration from 2 seconds to 1.5 secondsChaos

Metaphysical Rejuvenation: Reduced regeneration duration from 10 seconds to 5 secondsIllusionary Membrane: Reduced protection duration from 3 seconds to 2 secondsChaotic Persistence: Reduced bonus boon and condition duration per boon from 2% to 1%Method of Madness: Increased cooldown from 35 seconds to 75 secondsMaster of Manipulation: Reduced superspeed duration from 3 seconds to 1.5 secondsChaotic Transference: Increased toughness to condition damage conversion from 7% to 13%. Reduced concentration to expertise conversion from 13% to 5%Chaotic Dampening: Reduced protection duration from 4 seconds to 2.5 secondsBountiful Disillusionment: Reduced might duration from 8 seconds to 6 secondsInspiration

Restorative Illusions: Reduced heal coefficient from 0.77 to 0.46Mental Defense; Increased internal cooldown from 50 seconds to 90 secondsIllusions

Phantasmal Haste: Reduced quickness duration from 1.5 seconds to 1 secondMaim the Disillusioned: Reduced torment duration from 4 seconds to 3 secondsPhantasmal Force: Reduced might duration from 10 seconds to 6 secondsChronomancer

Delayed Reactions: Reduced slow duration from 3 seconds to 1.5 secondsSeize the Moment: Reduced quickness duration from 2 seconds to 1 secondMirage

Mirage Cloak: This trait now reduces the mirage's endurance by 50 in competitive modesRenewing Oasis: Reduced regeneration duration from 4 seconds to 2.5 secondsDune Cloak: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.5

EDIT1 What I dont like about these changes : NO MECHANICS WERE CHANGED, its just the numbers going down, and cooldowns going down and nothing else.2 By skimming through the patches damage goes down across the board, but condi cleanse stays the same. Condi damage in general might be dead after the patch.3 CC damage went down by ALOT, but since mesmer deals no damage with CC already, we are unaffected.4 Mirage might be dead after -50 endurance change5 CI and EM ( placeholder traits ) still have not been replaced.

My thoughts and conclusion :
Condi mes ( mirage ) gets hard nerfed by bleed on crit nerf and amulet removal, propably about 50% damage nerf if not more.I expect it to be dead.mirage = deadchrono = deadAnd I suspect that core mesmer will be VERY bad.My biggest hope is in power core that MIGHT be playable, but I fully expect mesmer to be the weakest class in the game.

Please share your thoughts yall.Links to postshttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/96744/balance-patch-preview-pvp#latesthttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/96747/balance-patch-preview-global

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Condi cleanse stay the same (except on firebrand) but condi damage do not change that much either. Power damage got way more nerfs, and sustain got nerfed a lot aswell. I think condi damage will be better after this actually. But yeah the -50 endurance is a really hard hit to mirage, we might start to see more core mesmers than mirages now.

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@Gryxis.6950 said:Condi cleanse stay the same (except on firebrand) but condi damage do not change that much either. Power damage got way more nerfs, and sustain got nerfed a lot aswell. I think condi damage will be better after this actually. But yeah the -50 endurance is a really hard hit to mirage, we might start to see more core mesmers than mirages now.

Condi amulets got removed, and this -> Sharper Images: Reduced bleeding duration from 5 seconds to 2 seconds

  • without ambushes core SRSL lacks the damage as it is.But my biggest worry is, thief wasnt nerfed all that hard and since it shits on mesmer....Looking at these changed I suspect core power mesmer might be a thing.f1 shatter wasnt nerfed as hard, all our CC deals no damage so it wasnt nerfed too. Time will tell
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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

Condi amulets got removed, and this -> Sharper Images: Reduced bleeding duration from 5 seconds to 2 seconds

  • without ambushes core SRSL lacks the damage as it is.But my biggest worry is, thief wasnt nerfed all that hard and since it kitten on mesmer....Looking at these changed I suspect core power mesmer might be a thing.f1 shatter wasnt nerfed as hard, all our CC deals no damage so it wasnt nerfed too. Time will tell

Well I'm mostly a wvw player so I didn't notice the fact amulets got removed, I'm used to the trailblazer condi mirages (which won't really get hit by the sharper images nerf). In there I suspect core bunker condi mesmer might be the next thing as it was alreay pretty strong and did not get nerf as much as anything else. But in pvp yeah I guess if the amulets got removed power mesmer will be the next thing. And power mirage might still be alive considering they didn't nerf the ambush's damage (and the greatsword ambush was pretty strong) but they nerfed the sustain. But yeah it'll be hard for any mirage i feel like.

Also I really don't get the huge nerf to the mantra of concentration, if it was too strong which does not feel like it a lighter nerf would have been good enough (and i even less get the nerf to mental defense this trait has been trash since ages)

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I'm assuming that Mirage -50% endurance has been thoroughly tested in the context of all the other nerfs and changes and is actually a functional change. Otherwise it's going to be utterly unplayable. Sacrificing not just half of your endurance but also the movement involved with regular dodging. Oh deary me.

I also assume that this means Mirage Cloak itself will be buffed to be far more potent and the Ambush Skills will become super dangerous and impactful now that the resource powering them has been halved. A resource I must add, that's already in competition with its use for simply dodging.

Mirage might die yes...

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@"Simonoly.4352" said:I'm assuming that Mirage -50% endurance has been thoroughly tested in the context of all the other nerfs and changes and is actually a functional change. Otherwise it's going to be utterly unplayable. Sacrificing not just half of your endurance but also the movement involved with regular dodging. Oh deary me.

I also assume that this means Mirage Cloak itself will be buffed to be far more potent and the Ambush Skills will become super dangerous and impactful now that the resource powering them has been halved. A resource I must add, that's already in competition with its use for simply dodging.

Mirage might die yes...

I doubt they did any testing above " it doesnt crash the game ".there is ALOT of nerfs that are for the sake of it.like mental defence ( gryxis mention it already )nerf to decoy or other useless trait.Implemented as a "lets nerf everything just to be safe" option.I crunched some numbers and new GS trait might actually lower damage for example, kekW

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Haha mirror blade bouncing 6 times is going to be hilarious, though it only really meant one extra hit for opponent(s).Core mesmer is definitely going to surpass mirage after they gutted endurance, and chrono is already dead in PvP.

The boon removals are welcome, if only they changed negligible rending shatter to a new trait that deal x damage (or heck apply 3x 3s vulnerability) on boon removals to see real punishments for boonspams (part of reason why I swap to spellbreaker). Though it really depend on how bad other profession's boon generation skills are nerfed.

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@Ansau.7326 said:Carrion and Sage amulets will still be there. Condi mirage or condi core in bunker mode might be the only option for pvp.Anyway, be prepared for thief ruling pvp and wvw in godmode while others will have to accept becoming peasants.

Its been heading that way anyway. The game is just not what is was. It seems like its heading to zero awfully fast sadly. Ohh well. Sad day.

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Jables.4659 said:Nerfing mirage's endurance bar in half is insanity. I understand that there are large nerfs across the board, but this is just too much.

Yeah, it seems a little extreme...

Personally fail to see how this is an extreme change.I mean we have a trait, a heal skill and utility skills (it might actually make them worth using) that generate mirage cristals to get some evade uptime. Plus, dueling will still be able to make mesmer gain endurance and we all know it is easier to recharge 1 endurance bar than 2.

That is also the only nerf that makes it acceptable to get evade uptime while being Cc’ed since they obviously have no intention to change that (whether it is a case of design choice or/and resource management).

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@flog.3485 said:

@Jables.4659 said:Nerfing mirage's endurance bar in half is insanity. I understand that there are large nerfs across the board, but this is just too much.

Yeah, it seems a little extreme...

Personally fail to see how this is an extreme change.I mean we have a trait, a heal skill and utility skills (it might actually make them worth using) that generate mirage cristals to get some evade uptime. Plus, dueling will still be able to make mesmer gain endurance and we all know it is easier to recharge 1 endurance bar than 2.

That is also the only nerf that makes it acceptable to get evade uptime while being Cc’ed since they obviously have no intention to change that (whether it is a case of design choice or/and resource management).

mirage needs to use dodges to deal any damage.immagine playing power mirage and using ambush, now you are stuck with 0 evades lol.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Jables.4659 said:Nerfing mirage's endurance bar in half is insanity. I understand that there are large nerfs across the board, but this is just too much.

Yeah, it seems a little extreme...

Personally fail to see how this is an extreme change.I mean we have a trait, a heal skill and utility skills (it might actually make them worth using) that generate mirage cristals to get some evade uptime. Plus, dueling will still be able to make mesmer gain endurance and we all know it is easier to recharge 1 endurance bar than 2.

That is also the only nerf that makes it acceptable to get evade uptime while being Cc’ed since they obviously have no intention to change that (whether it is a case of design choice or/and resource management).

mirage needs to use dodges to deal any damage.immagine playing power mirage and using ambush, now you are stuck with 0 evades lol.

And the mechanic of dodge is produced by creating and destroying these mirage cristals. I mean, take a look at illusionary ambush: you don’t even need to create a cristal in order to gain the effect of mirage ambush for you to apply additional damage.

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Interesting stuff, on board with most of it.

I am apprehensive about this single dodge on mirage, though on the other hand I am also open and accepting to this change. However, if this is the case I believe the mirage cloak duration should go back to 1 second acting as a kind of "lesser distortion" that can't be chained, properly differentiating from normal dodge. Remembering the loss of a dodge bar has a number of consequences such as movement, defence and offence, not to mention taking care with not overcapping on endurance regains at the wrong time - good to give some challenge to skill. But this will be the only spec where you can't keep a dodge in your back pocket when burning one.

Elusive Mind change is just boring though. Better than now and glad after 2 years it is finally addressed, but uninspired and not the most creative option to simply give it one additional cleanse.

But it seems while in general it is a lot of number nerfs, it's doesn't look to be doing much to address passivity of mechanics - ie leaning on clone ambushes for damage application. Sure we'll all do less damage, but gameplay while slower still looks to be fairly monotonous as at present.

Anyway, looking forward to a good reason to play and theory craft again. Hopefully this game takes a much needed turn for the better now.

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Basically to me, it looks like mesmer is dead as a class for pvp and wvw other than GS burst if that still ends up working afterwards which is horribly sad to me. I really am at a total loss for words and cant really voice what Im thinking here due to forum rules. Not convinced the newest balance changes wont literally kill off what is left of the mesmer player base.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:I wont use sand throught glass untill its bug is fixed, IA seems OK now, but we need to see how crippling -50 endurance will be.I bet this will compleatly kitten up endurance economy, removing something like 25 would make more sense, now endurance will keep being wasted.Nice elite mechanic xd

No, no. You don't understand. It's okay because it's only PvP. Mirage still works in PvE, so we're cool. Good change! You just have to understand what they were trying to do with it.

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:I wont use sand throught glass untill its bug is fixed, IA seems OK now, but we need to see how crippling -50 endurance will be.I bet this will compleatly kitten up endurance economy, removing something like 25 would make more sense, now endurance will keep being wasted.Nice elite mechanic xd

No, no. You don't understand. It's okay because it's only PvP. Mirage still works in PvE, so we're cool. Good change! You just have to understand what they were trying to do with it.

same thing they did to chrono? xd

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