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  • Lazze.9870Lazze.9870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 6, 2019

    @Wondrouswall.7169 said:
    A single pet would be a hefty drawback indeed, but there's always worse, like permanent merger when selecting the traitline. Then traits that activate with or while in Beastmode would shift over to activating on F2, and stuff like Fresh Reinforcement would be repurposed to a lame copy/paste of Revenant traits like, gain a certain boon on pet swap depending on the beast archetype. :#

    This option is likely on the table. The way it will be spun is players that wished for pet swap during Beastmode will finally get it, but at a cost. Careful what ya wish for.

    Part of me think that is what the spec should have been from the start. Easier to balance. Easier to manage the interactions with core traits, SB traits could probably be allowed to be a bit better and interesting. Easier to buff core pets to make them better for soulbeast, without making them overperform like they could have with the current iteration of it. The pet's original F2 could probably have been added to the bar. And of course, the trade off is right there. Less fun? Eh.. Obviously, in some ways, even though I would have liked to try it. Either way, it would still be good. Potentially, anyway.

    Two years down the road I would obviously prefer a F5 to core ranger and keep SB as is. Reshuffling power from SB to core while at it.

  • Bezerker.2379Bezerker.2379 Member ✭✭✭

    I mean, at least in wvw, theres no reason to run anything but a bird anyway. :P

  • Shadowcat.2680Shadowcat.2680 Member ✭✭✭

    I doubt Anet will implement one pet only for soulbeast simply because it'd be challenging to code (and likely a buggy mess if they did try).

    Anyhow. Only HoT professions got "trade-offs." PoF sales must have lagged.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2019

    There is a higher probability that ANet will just nerf the pet's damage/stats and merged stat buff when you use the soulbeast traitline than having the ranger's core mechanism modified (only one pet available). Just like scourge when you tell them that they need to remove the F1 proc and they choose to add a delay on shade effect with a huge tell. ANet will always favor keeping the current design over making big changes even if from our point of view it's stupid.

    The game in general simply need boons to be harder to get and soulbeast simply need to see it's interaction with commands/pet specific buff changed. The current situation we see with soulbeast is the reason why when I suggested an e-spec close to what the soulbeast is (way before PoF), I always suggested that the ranger get a low damage proc (which would have been the only thing affected by pet related stuff) instead of an increase in stat.

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Soulbeast: The downside to merging is losing your pet in order to gain access to Beastmode skills.

    just like...

    Berserker: The downside to berserker stance is losing your normal burst skills in order to gain access to Berserk mode.

    Soulbeast can use its core mechanic while not Merged.

    Berserker cant use normal burst at all.

    Berserker has a duration.
    Soulbeast can be used permanent.

    Berserker needs a resource.
    Soulbeast doesnt.

    Berserker Form can be interupted.

    Can Merging be interupted?

    Oh you were serious. I really thought the post was badly written sarcasm, but you're serious.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Soulbeast: The downside to merging is losing your pet in order to gain access to Beastmode skills.

    just like...

    Berserker: The downside to berserker stance is losing your normal burst skills in order to gain access to Berserk mode.

    Soulbeast can use its core mechanic while not Merged.

    Berserker cant use normal burst at all.

    Berserker has a duration.
    Soulbeast can be used permanent.

    Berserker needs a resource.
    Soulbeast doesnt.

    Berserker Form can be interupted.

    Can Merging be interupted?

    Oh you were serious. I really thought the post was badly written sarcasm, but you're serious.

    In all seriousness, at least a few of those 'Updates' to Berserk Mode are heading for Beast Mode. A duration and cast time may be imminent.

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2019

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Soulbeast: The downside to merging is losing your pet in order to gain access to Beastmode skills.

    just like...

    Berserker: The downside to berserker stance is losing your normal burst skills in order to gain access to Berserk mode.

    Soulbeast can use its core mechanic while not Merged.

    Berserker cant use normal burst at all.

    Berserker has a duration.
    Soulbeast can be used permanent.

    Berserker needs a resource.
    Soulbeast doesnt.

    Berserker Form can be interupted.

    Can Merging be interupted?

    Oh you were serious. I really thought the post was badly written sarcasm, but you're serious.

    In all seriousness, at least a few of those 'Updates' to Berserk Mode are heading for Beast Mode. A duration and cast time may be imminent.

    Jealousy is defined as "feeling or showing envy of someone or their achievements and advantages.

    I am seeing a pattern among the playerbase of showing envy, jealousy and spite, when their class is 'tuned' or bugs are fixed.

    The first thing they do is start looking around at which class is next, or posting what class SHOULD be next or what SHOULD be done to another class they don't main.
    IMO, it's disguised as concern or knowledgeable and unbiased reasonable requests. And in reality it's just envy.

    To be clear, I believe classes need to be balanced, but the way in which it is done, makes no sense and the power creep is outrageous.

    @jcbroe.4329 echoes a working idea of balance I strongly agree with,

    "Personally, I'd love for the game to be stripped back down to the base game and have every traitline and weapon redesigned to be more fluid and use the newest technologies, then rebuild the elite specs on top of it as functional sidegrades to round the core classes out instead of direct upgrades that make the core classes irrelevant.
    the entire game is bloated by power creep to the point where it isn't even worth getting worked up over or taking anything about it seriously."

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Soulbeast: The downside to merging is losing your pet in order to gain access to Beastmode skills.

    just like...

    Berserker: The downside to berserker stance is losing your normal burst skills in order to gain access to Berserk mode.

    Soulbeast can use its core mechanic while not Merged.

    Berserker cant use normal burst at all.

    Berserker has a duration.
    Soulbeast can be used permanent.

    Berserker needs a resource.
    Soulbeast doesnt.

    Berserker Form can be interupted.

    Can Merging be interupted?

    Oh you were serious. I really thought the post was badly written sarcasm, but you're serious.

    In all seriousness, at least a few of those 'Updates' to Berserk Mode are heading for Beast Mode. A duration and cast time may be imminent.

    Jealousy is defined as "feeling or showing envy of someone or their achievements and advantages.

    I am seeing a pattern among the playerbase of showing envy, jealousy and spite, when their class is 'tuned' or bugs are fixed.

    The first thing they do is start looking around at which class is next, or posting what class SHOULD be next or what SHOULD be done to another class they don't main.
    IMO, it's disguised as concern or knowledgeable and unbiased reasonable requests. And in reality it's just envy.

    To be clear, I believe classes need to be balanced, but the way in which it is done, makes no sense and the power creep is outrageous.

    @jcbroe.4329 echoes a working idea of balance I strongly agree with,

    "Personally, I'd love for the game to be stripped back down to the base game and have every traitline and weapon redesigned to be more fluid and use the newest technologies, then rebuild the elite specs on top of it as functional sidegrades to round the core classes out instead of direct upgrades that make the core classes irrelevant.
    the entire game is bloated by power creep to the point where it isn't even worth getting worked up over or taking anything about it seriously."

    Not true in my case but sure project if it makes you feel better. I have a soulbeast as well, and yes it is overtuned, and yes it has inexplicably evaded the Nerf hammer for too long. You're just in denial over it. If you weren't then you wouldn't be spouting nonsense about jealousy and envy.

  • Shadowcat.2680Shadowcat.2680 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Soulbeast: The downside to merging is losing your pet in order to gain access to Beastmode skills.

    just like...

    Berserker: The downside to berserker stance is losing your normal burst skills in order to gain access to Berserk mode.

    Soulbeast can use its core mechanic while not Merged.

    Berserker cant use normal burst at all.

    Berserker has a duration.
    Soulbeast can be used permanent.

    Berserker needs a resource.
    Soulbeast doesnt.

    Berserker Form can be interupted.

    Can Merging be interupted?

    Oh you were serious. I really thought the post was badly written sarcasm, but you're serious.

    In all seriousness, at least a few of those 'Updates' to Berserk Mode are heading for Beast Mode. A duration and cast time may be imminent.

    I doubt it. At a design level, berserk mode and beastmode have never had much in common. Berserk has always had a set duration and has always been a burstier mode than beastmode.

    Keep in mind too that beastmode is far more challenging for them to change (from a code viewpoint) as a mechanic. Soulbeast was the hardest PoF spec for them to implement simply because of needing to get rid of the pet for beastmode (the engine wasn't even capable of this back in HoT). Beastmode was a buggy mess on release and I don't know that they'd be all that eager to touch it since it's currently working.

    Nerfs to soulbeast may very well be incoming, but expect nerfs to come in the numbers somewhere, not in a change that'll force them to tackle beastmode again.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Soulbeast: The downside to merging is losing your pet in order to gain access to Beastmode skills.

    just like...

    Berserker: The downside to berserker stance is losing your normal burst skills in order to gain access to Berserk mode.

    Soulbeast can use its core mechanic while not Merged.

    Berserker cant use normal burst at all.

    Berserker has a duration.
    Soulbeast can be used permanent.

    Berserker needs a resource.
    Soulbeast doesnt.

    Berserker Form can be interupted.

    Can Merging be interupted?

    Oh you were serious. I really thought the post was badly written sarcasm, but you're serious.

    In all seriousness, at least a few of those 'Updates' to Berserk Mode are heading for Beast Mode. A duration and cast time may be imminent.

    I doubt it. At a design level, berserk mode and beastmode have never had much in common. Berserk has always had a set duration and has always been a burstier mode than beastmode.

    Keep in mind too that beastmode is far more challenging for them to change (from a code viewpoint) as a mechanic. Soulbeast was the hardest PoF spec for them to implement simply because of needing to get rid of the pet for beastmode (the engine wasn't even capable of this back in HoT). Beastmode was a buggy mess on release and I don't know that they'd be all that eager to touch it since it's currently working.

    Nerfs to soulbeast may very well be incoming, but expect nerfs to come in the numbers somewhere, not in a change that'll force them to tackle beastmode again.

    Oh I expect the numbers to change, but Anet themselves want to impose tradeoffs for E-Specs, and for Rangers that could either mean touching pets to make them weaker (like druid), removing a pet entirely (makes sense for Soulbeast), or tinkering with Beastmode like I mentioned above.

    Changing Beastmode may cause the least QQ honestly, as the mere prospect of taking a pet away has been giving rangers the vapors.

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Soulbeast: The downside to merging is losing your pet in order to gain access to Beastmode skills.

    just like...

    Berserker: The downside to berserker stance is losing your normal burst skills in order to gain access to Berserk mode.

    Soulbeast can use its core mechanic while not Merged.

    Berserker cant use normal burst at all.

    Berserker has a duration.
    Soulbeast can be used permanent.

    Berserker needs a resource.
    Soulbeast doesnt.

    Berserker Form can be interupted.

    Can Merging be interupted?

    Oh you were serious. I really thought the post was badly written sarcasm, but you're serious.

    In all seriousness, at least a few of those 'Updates' to Berserk Mode are heading for Beast Mode. A duration and cast time may be imminent.

    Jealousy is defined as "feeling or showing envy of someone or their achievements and advantages.

    I am seeing a pattern among the playerbase of showing envy, jealousy and spite, when their class is 'tuned' or bugs are fixed.

    The first thing they do is start looking around at which class is next, or posting what class SHOULD be next or what SHOULD be done to another class they don't main.
    IMO, it's disguised as concern or knowledgeable and unbiased reasonable requests. And in reality it's just envy.

    To be clear, I believe classes need to be balanced, but the way in which it is done, makes no sense and the power creep is outrageous.

    @jcbroe.4329 echoes a working idea of balance I strongly agree with,

    "Personally, I'd love for the game to be stripped back down to the base game and have every traitline and weapon redesigned to be more fluid and use the newest technologies, then rebuild the elite specs on top of it as functional sidegrades to round the core classes out instead of direct upgrades that make the core classes irrelevant.
    the entire game is bloated by power creep to the point where it isn't even worth getting worked up over or taking anything about it seriously."

    Not true in my case but sure project if it makes you feel better. I have a soulbeast as well, and yes it is overtuned, and yes it has inexplicably evaded the Nerf hammer for too long. You're just in denial over it. If you weren't then you wouldn't be spouting nonsense about jealousy and envy.

    I've seen thread after thread posters saying "My class has been nerfed and what class needs to be nerfed next?"
    Feeling or showing envy, of a perceived advantage. Spite=they want another class nerfed.

    Spouting nonsense? Took you no time for the personal attacks. You came here asking for nerfs. Predicting nerfs.
    IF that's not intended flamebait I don't know what is.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Soulbeast: The downside to merging is losing your pet in order to gain access to Beastmode skills.

    just like...

    Berserker: The downside to berserker stance is losing your normal burst skills in order to gain access to Berserk mode.

    Soulbeast can use its core mechanic while not Merged.

    Berserker cant use normal burst at all.

    Berserker has a duration.
    Soulbeast can be used permanent.

    Berserker needs a resource.
    Soulbeast doesnt.

    Berserker Form can be interupted.

    Can Merging be interupted?

    Oh you were serious. I really thought the post was badly written sarcasm, but you're serious.

    In all seriousness, at least a few of those 'Updates' to Berserk Mode are heading for Beast Mode. A duration and cast time may be imminent.

    Jealousy is defined as "feeling or showing envy of someone or their achievements and advantages.

    I am seeing a pattern among the playerbase of showing envy, jealousy and spite, when their class is 'tuned' or bugs are fixed.

    The first thing they do is start looking around at which class is next, or posting what class SHOULD be next or what SHOULD be done to another class they don't main.
    IMO, it's disguised as concern or knowledgeable and unbiased reasonable requests. And in reality it's just envy.

    To be clear, I believe classes need to be balanced, but the way in which it is done, makes no sense and the power creep is outrageous.

    @jcbroe.4329 echoes a working idea of balance I strongly agree with,

    "Personally, I'd love for the game to be stripped back down to the base game and have every traitline and weapon redesigned to be more fluid and use the newest technologies, then rebuild the elite specs on top of it as functional sidegrades to round the core classes out instead of direct upgrades that make the core classes irrelevant.
    the entire game is bloated by power creep to the point where it isn't even worth getting worked up over or taking anything about it seriously."

    Not true in my case but sure project if it makes you feel better. I have a soulbeast as well, and yes it is overtuned, and yes it has inexplicably evaded the Nerf hammer for too long. You're just in denial over it. If you weren't then you wouldn't be spouting nonsense about jealousy and envy.

    I've seen thread after thread posters saying "My class has been nerfed and what class needs to be nerfed next?"
    Feeling or showing envy, of a perceived advantage. Spite=they want another class nerfed.

    Spouting nonsense? Took you no time for the personal attacks. You came here asking for nerfs. Predicting nerfs.
    IF that's not intended flamebait I don't know what is.

    Theorizing on how another of my character's Especs will get a drawback is not flamebaiting. Pointing out when someone is spouting utter nonsense isn't an attack. Pointing out long running problems in one Espec isn't jealousy or envy. Hurling accusations of such however is more indicative of denial that such problems exist.

  • Shadowcat.2680Shadowcat.2680 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Soulbeast: The downside to merging is losing your pet in order to gain access to Beastmode skills.

    just like...

    Berserker: The downside to berserker stance is losing your normal burst skills in order to gain access to Berserk mode.

    Soulbeast can use its core mechanic while not Merged.

    Berserker cant use normal burst at all.

    Berserker has a duration.
    Soulbeast can be used permanent.

    Berserker needs a resource.
    Soulbeast doesnt.

    Berserker Form can be interupted.

    Can Merging be interupted?

    Oh you were serious. I really thought the post was badly written sarcasm, but you're serious.

    In all seriousness, at least a few of those 'Updates' to Berserk Mode are heading for Beast Mode. A duration and cast time may be imminent.

    I doubt it. At a design level, berserk mode and beastmode have never had much in common. Berserk has always had a set duration and has always been a burstier mode than beastmode.

    Keep in mind too that beastmode is far more challenging for them to change (from a code viewpoint) as a mechanic. Soulbeast was the hardest PoF spec for them to implement simply because of needing to get rid of the pet for beastmode (the engine wasn't even capable of this back in HoT). Beastmode was a buggy mess on release and I don't know that they'd be all that eager to touch it since it's currently working.

    Nerfs to soulbeast may very well be incoming, but expect nerfs to come in the numbers somewhere, not in a change that'll force them to tackle beastmode again.

    Oh I expect the numbers to change, but Anet themselves want to impose tradeoffs for E-Specs, and for Rangers that could either mean touching pets to make them weaker (like druid), removing a pet entirely (makes sense for Soulbeast), or tinkering with Beastmode like I mentioned above.

    Changing Beastmode may cause the least QQ honestly, as the mere prospect of taking a pet away has been giving rangers the vapors.

    Anet specified they wanted trade-offs for HoT professions.

    Expect "trade-offs" for the PoF professions to happen around the release of the next expansion.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Soulbeast: The downside to merging is losing your pet in order to gain access to Beastmode skills.

    just like...

    Berserker: The downside to berserker stance is losing your normal burst skills in order to gain access to Berserk mode.

    Soulbeast can use its core mechanic while not Merged.

    Berserker cant use normal burst at all.

    Berserker has a duration.
    Soulbeast can be used permanent.

    Berserker needs a resource.
    Soulbeast doesnt.

    Berserker Form can be interupted.

    Can Merging be interupted?

    Oh you were serious. I really thought the post was badly written sarcasm, but you're serious.

    In all seriousness, at least a few of those 'Updates' to Berserk Mode are heading for Beast Mode. A duration and cast time may be imminent.

    I doubt it. At a design level, berserk mode and beastmode have never had much in common. Berserk has always had a set duration and has always been a burstier mode than beastmode.

    Keep in mind too that beastmode is far more challenging for them to change (from a code viewpoint) as a mechanic. Soulbeast was the hardest PoF spec for them to implement simply because of needing to get rid of the pet for beastmode (the engine wasn't even capable of this back in HoT). Beastmode was a buggy mess on release and I don't know that they'd be all that eager to touch it since it's currently working.

    Nerfs to soulbeast may very well be incoming, but expect nerfs to come in the numbers somewhere, not in a change that'll force them to tackle beastmode again.

    Oh I expect the numbers to change, but Anet themselves want to impose tradeoffs for E-Specs, and for Rangers that could either mean touching pets to make them weaker (like druid), removing a pet entirely (makes sense for Soulbeast), or tinkering with Beastmode like I mentioned above.

    Changing Beastmode may cause the least QQ honestly, as the mere prospect of taking a pet away has been giving rangers the vapors.

    Anet specified they wanted trade-offs for HoT professions.

    Expect "trade-offs" for the PoF professions to happen around the release of the next expansion.

    Yep, lol, given the rate they balance things. But there are other things about Soulbeast that can be fixed besides a tradeoff.

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:
    Anet specified they wanted trade-offs for HoT professions.

    Expect "trade-offs" for the PoF professions to happen around the release of the next expansion.

    Quote? As far as memory recalls, Anet stated they wanted tradeoff for elite specs, no for "Hot elite specs".

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2019

    I doubt it, since it would prevent using two archetypes.
    I'd go with the same approach as they had with revenant: give Core ranger a new ability that is lost when specialized as Druid and Soulbeast.

    For example a combination of 1 or more of these changes:

    • Core ranger base pet swap recharge gets a bit shorter. Druid and Soulbeast get a longer pet swap recharge.
    • Core ranger pet recovery and pet swap cooldown on pet defeat is reduced, and/or the pet recovery time and swap cooldown penalty are increased.
    • Core ranger gets an F5 skill does a 'tag combo' swap.

      • This is often seen in tag-team fighting games like Capcom vs Marvel. F5 would summon the other pet and both pets would do their F2 attacks together, then swap.
      • This F5 skill would have a recharge of 30s, and put pet swap on recharge for 20s like when swapping pets.
      • This F5 skill would also be disabled if the second pet was defeated, getting the same 60s recharge as the pet swap skill.
      • Pet skill recharges could be shorter (or even ignored) when their skills are called with F5.
    • Core ranger gets and F5 skill that gives more control over the pet:

      • Press F5 and your skills change a bit:
      • F1 becomes ground targeted, allowing you to precisely determine where the pet moves. After use it will attack the enemy closest to the center of the groun-targeted area.
      • F2 becomes channeled. Allowing you to hold the button and charge it for up to 3s before releasing to give the pet's attack a stronger effect.
      • F3 makes the pet shadowstep to you instead runing to you.
      • Your utility skills (7, 8, 9) are covered by the pet's 3 skills. since they will be covered, not replaced, this would not kill summoned nature spirits or disable passive effects from signets.
      • F5 will only have a 1s recharge like kits. Letting you use the pet's skills like a kit.
    • Core ranger could summon both pets for a short time. Pressing F5 will summon both pets for 20s. The skill would go on recharge for 60s, but it won't put pet swap on recharge.

    • Core ranger could get an 'emergency pet' F5 skill. It will summon a one of your pets from your list of tamed pets for 20s, and go on recharge for 60s.
      • The pet summoned could be random, or preselected, or a duplicate of one of your selected pets.
  • Shadowcat.2680Shadowcat.2680 Member ✭✭✭

    @Skotlex.7580 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:
    Anet specified they wanted trade-offs for HoT professions.

    Expect "trade-offs" for the PoF professions to happen around the release of the next expansion.

    Quote? As far as memory recalls, Anet stated they wanted tradeoff for elite specs, no for "Hot elite specs".

    It's the way the April 23rd release notes phrased it. In reference to the elite specs, HoT is mentioned and PoF isn't. And then when they go on to list elite specs that don't have trade-offs, only HoT specs are listed (in a list of five specs, not one PoF spec appears).

    I could be reading into it, but Anet does have a history of nerfing older specs to make the newer content look more desirable.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    I doubt it, since it would prevent using two archetypes.
    I'd go with the same approach as they had with revenant: give Core ranger a new ability that is lost when specialized as Druid and Soulbeast.

    For example a combination of 1 or more of these changes:

    • Core ranger base pet swap recharge gets a bit shorter. Druid and Soulbeast get a longer pet swap recharge.
    • Core ranger pet recovery and pet swap cooldown on pet defeat is reduced, and/or the pet recovery time and swap cooldown penalty are increased.
    • Core ranger gets an F5 skill does a 'tag combo' swap.

      • This is often seen in tag-team fighting games like Capcom vs Marvel. F5 would summon the other pet and both pets would do their F2 attacks together, then swap.
      • This F5 skill would have a recharge of 30s, and put pet swap on recharge for 20s like when swapping pets.
      • This F5 skill would also be disabled if the second pet was defeated, getting the same 60s recharge as the pet swap skill.
      • Pet skill recharges could be shorter (or even ignored) when their skills are called with F5.
    • Core ranger gets and F5 skill that gives more control over the pet:

      • Press F5 and your skills change a bit:
      • F1 becomes ground targeted, allowing you to precisely determine where the pet moves. After use it will attack the enemy closest to the center of the groun-targeted area.
      • F2 becomes channeled. Allowing you to hold the button and charge it for up to 3s before releasing to give the pet's attack a stronger effect.
      • F3 makes the pet shadowstep to you instead runing to you.
      • Your utility skills (7, 8, 9) are covered by the pet's 3 skills. since they will be covered, not replaced, this would not kill summoned nature spirits or disable passive effects from signets.
      • F5 will only have a 1s recharge like kits. Letting you use the pet's skills like a kit.
    • Core ranger could summon both pets for a short time. Pressing F5 will summon both pets for 20s. The skill would go on recharge for 60s, but it won't put pet swap on recharge.

    • Core ranger could get an 'emergency pet' F5 skill. It will summon a one of your pets from your list of tamed pets for 20s, and go on recharge for 60s.
      • The pet summoned could be random, or preselected, or a duplicate of one of your selected pets.

    The problem is E-spec is build on core. Any buff on core the foundation will indirectly buff or give new possibilities for their e-specs.

    As for the trade off statement, it depends on far it covers when it was said.

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 14, 2019

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:
    Anet specified they wanted trade-offs for HoT professions.

    Expect "trade-offs" for the PoF professions to happen around the release of the next expansion.

    Quote? As far as memory recalls, Anet stated they wanted tradeoff for elite specs, no for "Hot elite specs".

    It's the way the April 23rd release notes phrased it. In reference to the elite specs, HoT is mentioned and PoF isn't. And then when they go on to list elite specs that don't have trade-offs, only HoT specs are listed (in a list of five specs, not one PoF spec appears).

    I could be reading into it, but Anet does have a history of nerfing older specs to make the newer content look more desirable.

    Ah, I see why you read it that way. The update reads:

    Elite specializations were introduced with the Heart of Thorns™ expansion and have become a regular sight throughout Tyria. These specializations have sometimes come with trade-offs, and sometimes they've been purely beneficial compared to a core specialization, often because they add something on top of everything the profession already does. We believe that elite specializations are a more meaningful choice when they have some trade-off or change some core part of a profession's mechanics.

    The way I read it is that they mentioned hot because that's when they introduced elite specs. Later in the patch notes they give examples of professions where there is a tradeoff already, and they totally include pof ones there.

  • Shadowcat.2680Shadowcat.2680 Member ✭✭✭

    @Skotlex.7580 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:
    Anet specified they wanted trade-offs for HoT professions.

    Expect "trade-offs" for the PoF professions to happen around the release of the next expansion.

    Quote? As far as memory recalls, Anet stated they wanted tradeoff for elite specs, no for "Hot elite specs".

    It's the way the April 23rd release notes phrased it. In reference to the elite specs, HoT is mentioned and PoF isn't. And then when they go on to list elite specs that don't have trade-offs, only HoT specs are listed (in a list of five specs, not one PoF spec appears).

    I could be reading into it, but Anet does have a history of nerfing older specs to make the newer content look more desirable.

    Ah, I see why you read it that way. The update reads:

    Elite specializations were introduced with the Heart of Thorns™ expansion and have become a regular sight throughout Tyria. These specializations have sometimes come with trade-offs, and sometimes they've been purely beneficial compared to a core specialization, often because they add something on top of everything the profession already does. We believe that elite specializations are a more meaningful choice when they have some trade-off or change some core part of a profession's mechanics.

    The way I read it is that they mentioned hot because that's when they introduced elite specs. Later in the patch notes they give examples of professions where there is a tradeoff already, and they totally include pof ones there.

    Necromancer (not scourge) is the example they give as having a trade-off already. But it's somewhat erroneous of a claim to make on their part since scourge is superior to core necro despite losing death shroud.

    I'm convinced they see soulbeast in a similar light. It has the trade-off of losing its pet in exchange for beastmode. Since beastmode is from their latest expansion, it's the superior mechanic to what's being given up.

    To go back to their example of necro (since their example encompasses both necro elites), reaper gives up death shroud also, but what it gains is no longer incredibly potent like it was during HoT (condi reapers were grossly overturned). They didn't make reaper's trade-off a nerf until just before PoF was released.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:
    Anet specified they wanted trade-offs for HoT professions.

    Expect "trade-offs" for the PoF professions to happen around the release of the next expansion.

    Quote? As far as memory recalls, Anet stated they wanted tradeoff for elite specs, no for "Hot elite specs".

    It's the way the April 23rd release notes phrased it. In reference to the elite specs, HoT is mentioned and PoF isn't. And then when they go on to list elite specs that don't have trade-offs, only HoT specs are listed (in a list of five specs, not one PoF spec appears).

    I could be reading into it, but Anet does have a history of nerfing older specs to make the newer content look more desirable.

    Ah, I see why you read it that way. The update reads:

    Elite specializations were introduced with the Heart of Thorns™ expansion and have become a regular sight throughout Tyria. These specializations have sometimes come with trade-offs, and sometimes they've been purely beneficial compared to a core specialization, often because they add something on top of everything the profession already does. We believe that elite specializations are a more meaningful choice when they have some trade-off or change some core part of a profession's mechanics.

    The way I read it is that they mentioned hot because that's when they introduced elite specs. Later in the patch notes they give examples of professions where there is a tradeoff already, and they totally include pof ones there.

    Necromancer (not scourge) is the example they give as having a trade-off already. But it's somewhat erroneous of a claim to make on their part since scourge is superior to core necro despite losing death shroud.

    I'm convinced they see soulbeast in a similar light. It has the trade-off of losing its pet in exchange for beastmode. Since beastmode is from their latest expansion, it's the superior mechanic to what's being given up.

    To go back to their example of necro (since their example encompasses both necro elites), reaper gives up death shroud also, but what it gains is no longer incredibly potent like it was during HoT (condi reapers were grossly overturned). They didn't make reaper's trade-off a nerf until just before PoF was released.

    Well Reaper's shroud depletes more quickly and Scourges lose shroud entirely for another benefit, so there is that tradeoff. As for 'losing' your pet, well you then benefit from the skills and traits that proc when your pet does something or gains a benefit, so I wouldn't consider that a trade off. I still think Beast Mode is looking at an incoming cast time and duration. I also would not be surprised Soul Beast looses a pet.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:
    Anet specified they wanted trade-offs for HoT professions.

    Expect "trade-offs" for the PoF professions to happen around the release of the next expansion.

    Quote? As far as memory recalls, Anet stated they wanted tradeoff for elite specs, no for "Hot elite specs".

    It's the way the April 23rd release notes phrased it. In reference to the elite specs, HoT is mentioned and PoF isn't. And then when they go on to list elite specs that don't have trade-offs, only HoT specs are listed (in a list of five specs, not one PoF spec appears).

    I could be reading into it, but Anet does have a history of nerfing older specs to make the newer content look more desirable.

    Ah, I see why you read it that way. The update reads:

    Elite specializations were introduced with the Heart of Thorns™ expansion and have become a regular sight throughout Tyria. These specializations have sometimes come with trade-offs, and sometimes they've been purely beneficial compared to a core specialization, often because they add something on top of everything the profession already does. We believe that elite specializations are a more meaningful choice when they have some trade-off or change some core part of a profession's mechanics.

    The way I read it is that they mentioned hot because that's when they introduced elite specs. Later in the patch notes they give examples of professions where there is a tradeoff already, and they totally include pof ones there.

    Necromancer (not scourge) is the example they give as having a trade-off already. But it's somewhat erroneous of a claim to make on their part since scourge is superior to core necro despite losing death shroud.

    I'm convinced they see soulbeast in a similar light. It has the trade-off of losing its pet in exchange for beastmode. Since beastmode is from their latest expansion, it's the superior mechanic to what's being given up.

    To go back to their example of necro (since their example encompasses both necro elites), reaper gives up death shroud also, but what it gains is no longer incredibly potent like it was during HoT (condi reapers were grossly overturned). They didn't make reaper's trade-off a nerf until just before PoF was released.

    Well Reaper's shroud depletes more quickly and Scourges lose shroud entirely for another benefit, so there is that tradeoff. As for 'losing' your pet, well you then benefit from the skills and traits that proc when your pet does something or gains a benefit, so I wouldn't consider that a trade off. I still think Beast Mode is looking at an incoming cast time and duration. I also would not be surprised Soul Beast looses a pet.

    Using shroud in general has the big trade off of no access to utility skills as well

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:
    Anet specified they wanted trade-offs for HoT professions.

    Expect "trade-offs" for the PoF professions to happen around the release of the next expansion.

    Quote? As far as memory recalls, Anet stated they wanted tradeoff for elite specs, no for "Hot elite specs".

    It's the way the April 23rd release notes phrased it. In reference to the elite specs, HoT is mentioned and PoF isn't. And then when they go on to list elite specs that don't have trade-offs, only HoT specs are listed (in a list of five specs, not one PoF spec appears).

    I could be reading into it, but Anet does have a history of nerfing older specs to make the newer content look more desirable.

    Ah, I see why you read it that way. The update reads:

    Elite specializations were introduced with the Heart of Thorns™ expansion and have become a regular sight throughout Tyria. These specializations have sometimes come with trade-offs, and sometimes they've been purely beneficial compared to a core specialization, often because they add something on top of everything the profession already does. We believe that elite specializations are a more meaningful choice when they have some trade-off or change some core part of a profession's mechanics.

    The way I read it is that they mentioned hot because that's when they introduced elite specs. Later in the patch notes they give examples of professions where there is a tradeoff already, and they totally include pof ones there.

    Necromancer (not scourge) is the example they give as having a trade-off already. But it's somewhat erroneous of a claim to make on their part since scourge is superior to core necro despite losing death shroud.

    I'm convinced they see soulbeast in a similar light. It has the trade-off of losing its pet in exchange for beastmode. Since beastmode is from their latest expansion, it's the superior mechanic to what's being given up.

    To go back to their example of necro (since their example encompasses both necro elites), reaper gives up death shroud also, but what it gains is no longer incredibly potent like it was during HoT (condi reapers were grossly overturned). They didn't make reaper's trade-off a nerf until just before PoF was released.

    Well Reaper's shroud depletes more quickly and Scourges lose shroud entirely for another benefit, so there is that tradeoff. As for 'losing' your pet, well you then benefit from the skills and traits that proc when your pet does something or gains a benefit, so I wouldn't consider that a trade off. I still think Beast Mode is looking at an incoming cast time and duration. I also would not be surprised Soul Beast looses a pet.

    Using shroud in general has the big trade off of no access to utility skills as well

    That is true with Death Shroud though so this isn't a trade off, but a continuation of part of the Necromancer profession mechanic. I never felt that Reaper Shroud was a trade off though and that it felt like a straight upgrade, apparently other necro players and Anet feel differently. Scourge's Shades are powerful, but loosing Shroud makes them more fragile.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:
    Anet specified they wanted trade-offs for HoT professions.

    Expect "trade-offs" for the PoF professions to happen around the release of the next expansion.

    Quote? As far as memory recalls, Anet stated they wanted tradeoff for elite specs, no for "Hot elite specs".

    It's the way the April 23rd release notes phrased it. In reference to the elite specs, HoT is mentioned and PoF isn't. And then when they go on to list elite specs that don't have trade-offs, only HoT specs are listed (in a list of five specs, not one PoF spec appears).

    I could be reading into it, but Anet does have a history of nerfing older specs to make the newer content look more desirable.

    Ah, I see why you read it that way. The update reads:

    Elite specializations were introduced with the Heart of Thorns™ expansion and have become a regular sight throughout Tyria. These specializations have sometimes come with trade-offs, and sometimes they've been purely beneficial compared to a core specialization, often because they add something on top of everything the profession already does. We believe that elite specializations are a more meaningful choice when they have some trade-off or change some core part of a profession's mechanics.

    The way I read it is that they mentioned hot because that's when they introduced elite specs. Later in the patch notes they give examples of professions where there is a tradeoff already, and they totally include pof ones there.

    Necromancer (not scourge) is the example they give as having a trade-off already. But it's somewhat erroneous of a claim to make on their part since scourge is superior to core necro despite losing death shroud.

    I'm convinced they see soulbeast in a similar light. It has the trade-off of losing its pet in exchange for beastmode. Since beastmode is from their latest expansion, it's the superior mechanic to what's being given up.

    To go back to their example of necro (since their example encompasses both necro elites), reaper gives up death shroud also, but what it gains is no longer incredibly potent like it was during HoT (condi reapers were grossly overturned). They didn't make reaper's trade-off a nerf until just before PoF was released.

    Well Reaper's shroud depletes more quickly and Scourges lose shroud entirely for another benefit, so there is that tradeoff. As for 'losing' your pet, well you then benefit from the skills and traits that proc when your pet does something or gains a benefit, so I wouldn't consider that a trade off. I still think Beast Mode is looking at an incoming cast time and duration. I also would not be surprised Soul Beast looses a pet.

    Using shroud in general has the big trade off of no access to utility skills as well

    That is true with Death Shroud though so this isn't a trade off, but a continuation of part of the Necromancer profession mechanic. I never felt that Reaper Shroud was a trade off though and that it felt like a straight upgrade, apparently other necro players and Anet feel differently. Scourge's Shades are powerful, but loosing Shroud makes them more fragile.

    Personally I'd say core necro should get access to utilities and reaper shouldn't. That would be a trade off.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @Skotlex.7580 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:
    Anet specified they wanted trade-offs for HoT professions.

    Expect "trade-offs" for the PoF professions to happen around the release of the next expansion.

    Quote? As far as memory recalls, Anet stated they wanted tradeoff for elite specs, no for "Hot elite specs".

    It's the way the April 23rd release notes phrased it. In reference to the elite specs, HoT is mentioned and PoF isn't. And then when they go on to list elite specs that don't have trade-offs, only HoT specs are listed (in a list of five specs, not one PoF spec appears).

    I could be reading into it, but Anet does have a history of nerfing older specs to make the newer content look more desirable.

    Ah, I see why you read it that way. The update reads:

    Elite specializations were introduced with the Heart of Thorns™ expansion and have become a regular sight throughout Tyria. These specializations have sometimes come with trade-offs, and sometimes they've been purely beneficial compared to a core specialization, often because they add something on top of everything the profession already does. We believe that elite specializations are a more meaningful choice when they have some trade-off or change some core part of a profession's mechanics.

    The way I read it is that they mentioned hot because that's when they introduced elite specs. Later in the patch notes they give examples of professions where there is a tradeoff already, and they totally include pof ones there.

    Necromancer (not scourge) is the example they give as having a trade-off already. But it's somewhat erroneous of a claim to make on their part since scourge is superior to core necro despite losing death shroud.

    I'm convinced they see soulbeast in a similar light. It has the trade-off of losing its pet in exchange for beastmode. Since beastmode is from their latest expansion, it's the superior mechanic to what's being given up.

    To go back to their example of necro (since their example encompasses both necro elites), reaper gives up death shroud also, but what it gains is no longer incredibly potent like it was during HoT (condi reapers were grossly overturned). They didn't make reaper's trade-off a nerf until just before PoF was released.

    Well Reaper's shroud depletes more quickly and Scourges lose shroud entirely for another benefit, so there is that tradeoff. As for 'losing' your pet, well you then benefit from the skills and traits that proc when your pet does something or gains a benefit, so I wouldn't consider that a trade off. I still think Beast Mode is looking at an incoming cast time and duration. I also would not be surprised Soul Beast looses a pet.

    Using shroud in general has the big trade off of no access to utility skills as well

    That is true with Death Shroud though so this isn't a trade off, but a continuation of part of the Necromancer profession mechanic. I never felt that Reaper Shroud was a trade off though and that it felt like a straight upgrade, apparently other necro players and Anet feel differently. Scourge's Shades are powerful, but loosing Shroud makes them more fragile.

    Personally I'd say core necro should get access to utilities and reaper shouldn't. That would be a trade off.

    I agree with that. It always bugged me that I didn't have my utilities when in shroud. Reaper shroud is powerful enough though that utilities aren't that needed.

  • KeyOrion.9506KeyOrion.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    When they nerfed my ranger, it's like having both arms tied behind my back, and told, "Ok...now try using the bow....but with more FEELING." I swear I wanted to cry in the last couple of nerfs.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Looks like i was right.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    Looks like i was right.

    Yes you are. Fortunately we also trigger swap traits when merged\unmerge so is not that bad

  • wow dood you jinxed it. get him lads!

    Te lazla otstara.