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Balance Patch Preview - WvW


Cal Cohen.2358

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Looks so promising

For supportive purposes:Hope the Tomes on firebrand get slightly nerved as well likeInitiative system on thief but with no regen (and like 20 cast points)OrNot Being able.to cast utility

As a main guard i can approve most of dh and core.changes and hope people can start theorycraft again..and not like 'do i put 2 or 3 scrappers in my 15 man group, and if so would i removed a rev or a scourge?'

Ofcourse there Will be better optionsBut 'pulling everything down would equalize difference a bit. And make the devs work from there..

Edit: few add words for better grammar

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@KrHome.1920 said:Thief will be too strong (unkillable) until they nerf shadow arts. The reason is that all the nerfs to the heals and initiative costs are irrelevant when you can hide in stealth forever.Aye, a question to all thieves: does the patch really do anything permastealth/constantly repeating stealth builds?Damage is nerfed yes but couldnt really see much nerfs to stealth aside from some combo fields. Not really familiar enough with thief skills to tell at a glance though.

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Thanks for the preview, @"Cal Cohen.2358" ! Hope this will be a regular trend.

Now for the feedback:

The 300s cooldown across-the-board of all passive traits is very questionable. Some traits' efficacy are better than others depending on the class and should have a corresponding cooldown or a trigger that would not necessarily make it useless.

Making the coefficients of Crowd-Control skills baseline is also dumbfounding. Most of them have a x0.01 coefficient while also retaining their old cooldowns and durations. Why would someone prefer one "CC Weapon or Skill" with another if they basically do the same damage? Got to at least have discrepancies with the damage of these skills.

SKills, Traits and Weapons that are not seeing use and if so, very rarely are also nerfed baseline and thus will still never be or very rarely used.

Same goes with Specializations. However, this might change as time goes on but I doubt Chronos would be welcome to large group compositions like they used to as the skills that would make them so were heavily nerfed as well.

The "Usual Suspects" of no counterplay offenders were not addressed. At least they won't be as annoying as before, I guess?

Territorial Buffs (Guild Objective Aura and Presence of the Keep) are going to be exponentially more potent than before. Please address this.

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Ele feedback.Was playing core for years. Switched to weaver because of power creep.

Core Ele feedback:

  • Drake's Breath: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 6 secondsWhy ? Dagger is not strong

  • Burning Speed: Increased cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 secondsagain WHY ??? dagger is not strong

  • Armor of Earth: Increased cooldown from 50 seconds to 60 secondsWHY ??? its the ONLY stability skill we have on core ( apart from tornado )

  • Final Shielding: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds...just remove auto procs already and replace it with something good. the alternative is Elemental Contingency ... a mediocre luck based skill .. nice -_-

  • Lightning Whip: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.63 to 0.42still no buff in range ? still only 240 range instead of 300 ?its very hard to hit a moving target ... please rethink this skill :)

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@"Dahir.4158" said:You're making me cry with all these fat ele nerfs. Why are you doing this? Why?

Just don't touch it full stop. You've nerfed us too much already. Do what you want with sword, but don't touch anything else.

ele elites are currently useless crap. In the future they are not even worth slotting. Why? Nobody uses tornado because it is so bad. Why nerf it?

The rest: ele isn't hit as much as others, which shows one thing: ELES HAVE BEEN SHAFTED IN THE PAST.

Just as us ele players have been saying for ages. ANET screwed us over and now they screw us over just a little bit less than anyone else.

Thieves, mesmers, soulbeasts will still be doing fine - and tempest shouts are dead.

Not too happy. Good start, but the three are not hit hard enough and the one class that has already no chance against stealth abusers and only's saving grace was decent aoe and raw heal is made even less viable.

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It’s been years since I logged in to comment on something, but this definitely deserves all the feedback it can get.

First of all, I am pleased to see what you have come up with so far regarding the damage and healing down-toning along with cool down increases.

Regarding downstates:Do keep in mind that when nerfing reviving skills you need to also nerf the ability to stomp quicker, such as mount stomps from the warclaw. The warclaw stomp should be removed entirely as it promotes passive play until one side gets downs for further snowball effect from mount stomps.

The reason I mention this is because with the new balance patch so far, there will be less people committing to reviving downstate allies because of less backup from boons and heals. They will become even more vulnerable when attempting to revive. With the mount stomp, the revivers will be completely negated.

You nerfed reviving traits and skills, remove mount stomp as it serves no purpose but to one-button stomp enemies. This way you balance out the downstate more too and it doesn’t become a “you’re down - you’re dead” state.

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WvW team comps need a reliant source of stability, for long now this was usualy provided by guard's "stand your ground". If you nerf it like this, we will need 3 guardians for party against the 2 for 10 players to have a reliant stability now... this will kill diversity...I think "stand your ground" is one of the most defining utility's in current meta and has been for a long, long time, so any change that this skill get should be consensuated with the comunity... After all we dont have that big playerbase, and make teamplay a cc spamfest could be the fatal blow for WvW.Besides that, i like what i see, i never thought i'd be alife for the end of gw2 powercreep ;(

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ele elites are currently useless kitten. In the future they are not even worth slotting. Why? Nobody uses tornado because it is so bad. Why nerf it?

i agree that ele elite skills are .. not that great.but i disagree with tornado.Tornado is a great elite skill and with 60 cooldown ( traited 48 ? ) its super good. (stability for save stomp, regen + vigor+ condi cleanse, interrupt, can attack 10 targets / played with leadership rune additional condi cleanse)

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people are being stupid here. For anyone who played this game for a long time, it is obvious that the game has power crept alot. Reducing creep is a great idea. It isnt posssible to estimate how this patch plays out. This preview is supposed to gather feedback and then take it into account until the patch goes live. So if you think trailblazer will be op in wvw than say that in a constructive manner.They make it clear that this patch will serve as a baseline and future balance will follow more quiickly. I really dont get some peoples problems here.

Regarding the concern that it will drive people away.. You really thinnk new players will mind that they wont get randomly oneshot anymore. Old players who left wvw because of the neglect to wvw will maybe take a look at the game again.

If people that get carried by the creep and whine here on the forums leave I am more than happy.

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@borgs.6103 said:Thanks for the preview, @"Cal Cohen.2358" ! Hope this will be a regular trend.

Now for the feedback:

The 300s cooldown across-the-board of all passive traits is very questionable. Some traits' efficacy are better than others depending on the class and should have a corresponding cooldown or a trigger that would not necessarily make it useless.

Making the coefficients of Crowd-Control skills baseline is also dumbfounding. Most of them have a x0.01 coefficient while also retaining their old cooldowns and durations. Why would someone prefer one "CC Weapon or Skill" with another if they basically do the same damage? Got to at least have discrepancies with the damage of these skills.

SKills, Traits and Weapons that are not seeing use and if so, very rarely are also nerfed baseline and thus will still never be or very rarely used.

Same goes with Specializations. However, this might change as time goes on but I doubt Chronos would be welcome to large group compositions like they used to as the skills that would make them so were heavily nerfed as well.

The "Usual Suspects" of no counterplay offenders were not addressed. At least they won't be as annoying as before, I guess?

Territorial Buffs (Guild Objective Aura and Presence of the Keep) are going to be exponentially more potent than before. Please address this.

This is how you give constructive feedback. Why are most people so Pepega here..

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Thief will be too strong (unkillable) until they nerf shadow arts. The reason is that all the nerfs to the heals and initiative costs are irrelevant when you can hide in stealth forever.Aye, a question to all thieves: does the patch really do anything permastealth/constantly repeating stealth builds?Damage is nerfed yes but couldnt really see much nerfs to stealth aside from some combo fields. Not really familiar enough with thief skills to tell at a glance though.

hidden patch notes:we removed thief and its elite spec from competitive because stealth is not balanceable.

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Really nice first step. Especially the reduction of the power coefficients on hard CC skills. The only big problem i foresee is that:

Heals will be too strong overall, still. Unless DPS skills, heals land everytime and can be easily applied to 5 targets especially in WvW. I think you will need to cut these down a bit further, especially the heals that target allies only.

Damaging Conditions have been gutted a little bit too hard from reading trough most of it. It was already hard to kill things with condition damage in group scenarios, because of the massive spam of condition cleanses. You now reduced condition duration a bit, as well as the amount of condis applied in a lot of cases, while not limiting the amount of condi clears by all that much. You should focus on making condition damage and power damage equally lethal and town down the condition cleanses - especially those that apply to allies as well - by a lot.

Also - what you really should adress asap is the random CC on ranger pets. Thats one of the most unfun, unskilled, and random machanics in place.

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  • Blink: Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 35 seconds
  • Mantra of Distraction: Reduced diversion recharge from 15 seconds to 10 seconds
  • Power Spike (from Mantra of Pain): Reduced power coefficient from 1.33 to 0.45. Adjusted vulnerability from 5 stacks for 8 seconds to 12 stacks for 6 seconds

Mirage

  • Mirage Cloak: This trait now reduces the mirage's endurance by 50 in competitive modes

My thoughts:

  • Increase Blink cooldown to 40 seconds, its still an easy getaway
  • Increase Mantra of Distraction cooldown to 25 seconds would be a lot more healthy
  • Power Spike (from Mantra of Pain) now this is the real problem, I am surprised you didnt increase the cooldown on this to 5 or 8 seconds, its easily spammable, and even now stacking up to 12 stacks of vulnerability, I would confidently say that this is a buff to oneshot mesmer play style, the 8 secs to 6 secs is completely inconsequential because a good mesmer only need 1 to 2 seconds to burst someone down in that time window or he is not doing anything at all, now from 6 to 12 stacks of vulnerability,this gonna be in a whole more world of pain, when most passive traits that prevent oneshotting have been increased to 300 seconds cooldown, yep 300.
  • Mirage Cloak: I am a bit confused on this, does it mean that Mirage Cloak is now a trait that you can take or you can just dont and have normal dodge on mirage and if you take the trait you only have one endurance bar?

Please rework Druid, Chrono, buff Ele, and Renegade they are absolutely useless.

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World vs Wet Noodles must be the new game mode name. Although so many ways to troll people if these changes actually go in like this. Plus all the condi crap no one really likes I might troll some people for a little bit but if this is what happens I am pretty sure I'll just say I had my fun but its over now this stuff is just really really horrible plus the classes who are squishy but yet rely on their big damage numbers will get so screwed they will be unplayable.

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