Official Feedback Thread about Build and Equipment Templates

[Fueki.4753]

@Awesumness.1823 said:I'd love to just export and import builds via chat links like GW1. Traits+Skills+Gear all in a single link. This shouldn't require further UI code.How are they going to monetize that?

Or let us use Arc again.I'd rather have Arenanet shut down all the DPS metres and other external functions.I've even read about things as disgusting as programs to check others' gear.

[lare.5129]

after long time I feel some bugs1) minor - "non remember" revenant legend skill order, especial it fail on when join on pvp

2) and main issue - pvp build non remember/bind weapons. By design logic is should be.

[Awesumness.1823]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@"Awesumness.1823" said:I'd love to just export and import builds via chat links like GW1. Traits+Skills+Gear all in a single link. This shouldn't require further UI code.How are they going to monetize that?

The same way Destiny 2 does? Don't monetize this specific feature because the community tools can scale for breadth and depth better while the game devs can focus on a better core product. Anet hasn't monetized me or my close friends at all since the change... We stopped playing. And if we come back we realize finishing our legendary gear, largely funded by $$$ -> gems -> gold, isn't really worth it so that's a missed monetization opportunity. We're likely to just play far fewer builds on our characters. Maybe we need to recycle our extra character slots into "duplicated" characters and fill them up with ascended gear to cover the builds we're missing? Ascended gear that's farmed from the content we play (fractals/raids)? No money injected there either. This is exactly how all my extended friends still playing the game are circumventing the template monetization.

Deeper Dive: Previously, my wife and I converted $$ to gold for our legendary gear's mats. A full set of armor and two weapons is roughly 4,700 gold or $159. We had already done this once for our mains (mesmer and ranger). We were casually raiding, helping raiders progress (praise DeltaConnected and MarsEdge for mechanics logs <3 ), and on our way to getting the Legendary Insights required for our second set of characters, a rev and a guardian, before the axe fell. So the old way was no money spent on build templates, but $159 (not including weapon swap $$$) spent per character. Now if we come back we spend $0 per template because the native UI isn't worth the hassle, and $0 per character because there's no incentive to finish legendary gear and our preferred content will drop the bits of gear we need anyways? We need to character swap to get more than 6 build templates (skills+traits+gear) for a given class? On top of all this, the broken trust and confidence in Anet prevents us from spending money on arbitrary gemstore items or whatever neat item on the trading post.

Or let us use Arc again.I'd rather have Arenanet shut down all the DPS metres and other external functions.I've even read about things as disgusting as programs to check others' gear.Please don't try to derail this thread into a discussion about tangential tools :)

tl;dr I'm just trying to give feedback based on my experience :) The native template system coupled with the disabling of ArcTemplates has changed me from a $159+ per character player to a $0 per character player. Anet has deleted our rapport and I cannot bring myself to play or pay for any aspect of GW2. I don't even know if I'd trust them with a new game.

widekittenHappy ?

[Cadaver Material.3162]

I think you can stick a fork in this. This topic has garnished over 1100 replies from the player base, of which a whopping total of five have come from the A-Net team, which includes one of those "replies" being an edit of their own post. That's .005% of the replies. And that includes the introduction of the topic. This does not consider the unknown number of threads and posts that have been closed/deleted and told to be "added" to this thread because they were thought to be relevant to the theme/subject of templates.

To sum up the Arena-net membership "involvement" (para-phrasing):

1. October 28th: Stephane Lo-Presti.7258 "We're reading the feedback and discussing it internally."
2. October 29th: Stephane Lo-Presti.7258 "I'm closing all previous posts about templates. This thread is primarily for gathering feedback, not discussion."
3. November 12th: Stephane Lo-Presti.7258 Edit of the Nov. 1 post telling people to be polite when giving feedback.
4. November 18th: Rubi Bayer.8493 "We see you want auto switching when going to PvP and WvW; you want legendary equipment swapping to be fixed; and you want to be able to make experimental changes to builds without them being auto-saved. We'll work on this and update you early in the new year."
5. November 25th: Rubi Bayer.8493 "We've updated stuff so that you'll auto-switch templates when going to PvE, PvP, or WvW; plus PvP equip will be integrated into all equip templates. We'll give you another update early in the new year."

With over a thousand replies, this topic is one of the most popular non-stickied threads in the entire Discussion section, which might imply that it is something the player base has an interest in. While there are many negative posts herein, there are also a great many posts with a number of positive or alternative suggestions which might improve the view the players have of the templates in general. To date, we've seen several "quality of life" updates for the templates, but they pretty much remain the same as they were when they rolled out.

It would be great to be able to actually converse with the A-net team about this. The key word is "converse", which would require that someone from A-net respond to any of our inquiries, requests, suggestions, demands, etc. We know they (A-net) delete threads and lock anything that has even the slightest implication of being involved with templates that isn't posted here, so they're reading the posts at least. Well, the new posts in any case. The lack of response here though indicates a complete lack of concern for the topic. Five posts (technically four and an edit) from over 1100? And in the interim you've given us numerous capes; taken fall damage mitigation skills out of the game and replaced them with "other skills"; gave us the Bjora Marches; had Wintersday; had Lunar New Years; you even went so far as to throw in an update to WvW when some SMC walls got moved (unintentionally at the time) and then even fixed it afterwards. I'll give you points for being busy (at least the devs), but to completely disregard one of the most popular threads in the entire forum which you started in the first place? That's crass. And it shows just how little you actually value interaction. And this > "We'll still follow with another update early in the new year";
well, I'm hesitant to call it an outright lie, as I suppose it depends on your definition of what "early" is, but it's sure looking like it.

You're going to say "well, even you pointed out that we (a-net) did not plan this to be a discussion thread". Well, to be fair, in the same breath you also said you were closing all the old threads, and since then have closed and deleted every other thread anyone has brought up to try to discuss it. You ended the discussion before it ever happened. Almost like you never intended it to happen. But that would mean that you had no intentions of following through on any of the "feedback" we offered. Just like you did before the templates were dropped. We offered truckloads of advice and suggestions to a resounding silence, then we got handed your version of templates. Then asked for feedback and denied the option to "discuss" it with you. Well, here it is, Round two. Fifty nine days since your last post here. 59. FIVE NINE. As if you care.

Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, well, I was a hopeful idiot wishing for a miracle.

tl;dr: ANET. DOES. NOT. CARE. Keep feeding the gem store. "Keep posting. We'll keep reading, laughing, and deleting what we don't like."

[kharmin.7683]

@"Cadaver Material.3162" said:This topic has garnished over 1100 replies from the player baseHow many of those replies are duplicates? There are only so many ways to tell Anet how displeased players are with the current implementation. ("I hate templates. Bring back ARC") After the first 20-30, I'd probably start ignoring them, too.Unfortunately (?), out of the 1100 replies, there were far too few actual constructive posts that probably got lost in the static. I'm sure that Anet understands the tenor of the bulk of the feedback here, but their metrics probably tell a far different tale.

[Cranky wo Coffee.5914]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Cadaver Material.3162" said:This topic has garnished over 1100 replies from the player baseHow many of those replies are duplicates? There are only so many ways to tell Anet how displeased players are with the current implementation. ("I hate templates. Bring back ARC") After the first 20-30, I'd probably start ignoring them, too.Unfortunately (?), out of the 1100 replies, there were far too few actual constructive posts that probably got lost in the static. I'm sure that Anet understands the tenor of the bulk of the feedback here, but their metrics probably tell a far different tale.

This is the "Official Feedback Thread about Build and Equipment Templates", They(Anet) have to take the good with the bad and the repetitive. I don't understand the justification for a retailer(Anet) to ignore the consumer(players) feedback when they asked for it.

Edit- I think Anet was done with this thread the minute they decided to un-sticky it.

[kharmin.7683]

I agree; however, I don't feel that the repetitiveness of the complaints that had no real constructive value were worth their time to parse. That's all I'm saying.

[Awesumness.1823]

Perhaps the people capable of consuming the feedback have tools to find the most thumbs upped or quoted posts in the thread. :)

And since the thread has been open for ~12 weeks, they've been consuming feedback in chunks so the backlog isn't quite 1000+ posts :)

[sewenewes.4176]

I came back to the game after a few months of absence. Saw these build templates and gear loadouts on the gem store and they were even on sale! So thought I'd check out this shiny new feature and grab myself some slots if it's any good.

Honestly? They're confusing. Not intuitive at all and require far too much switching and clicking around. Found it more frustrating than useful. After fiddling around with it for a good two hours on a ranger and a revenant, I ended up abandoing the whole thing and haven't looked at the feature since. Needless to say, additional loadouts were not bought. Also noticed some bugs (or intended features?) like revenant skills swapping positions and ranger pets not switching out.

I'm not going to address the price or the fact it's not an account-wide unlock. Others already did and I personally don't mind either way. If I like something, I'll pay for it unless the price is truly insane. However, there needs to be a better explanation for this in-game. As a personal preference, I'd like to see something similar to (or exactly like) the build editor website gw2skills.net.

[Juan.6124]

Please add actual templates with a save function. Currently they are loadouts, you even coded them as loadouts. Legendary weapons get stripped of stats and upgrades when put into the inventory, not good. Revenant utility skills order does not get memorized, unfortunate.

@Awesumness.1823 said:

widekittenHappy ?

widekittenHappy :point_right: :sparkling_heart:

@ewenness.6482 said:

and they were even on sale! So thought I'd check out this shiny new feature and grab myself some slots if it's any good.

They never were on sale.

[Josiah.2967]

I just want to know if Arenanet is happy with the current implementation of build templates.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Josiah.2967 said:I just want to know if Arenanet is happy with the current implementation of build templates.They probably are. But then, they are not the ones playing this game, so obviously their opinion of the whole system is based on completely different things than ours.

Better question would be whether they care that players are unhappy with this system.

[ElderNewt.5840]

@kharmin.7683 said:I agree; however, I don't feel that the repetitiveness of the complaints that had no real constructive value were worth their time to parse. That's all I'm saying.

Just because some comments offer no real constructive value, doesn't mean people cannot share their dis-taste over things. Not everyone who dislikes something has to have the ability to think of something else or better. This doesn't mean we should ignore them.It is up to EAnet to plan these out, know what the player base wants and deliver on it.

[Fueki.4753]

@Josiah.2967 said:I just want to know if Arenanet is happy with the current implementation of build templates.I think, the better question is whether NCsoft is happy with it and the money it makes.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Josiah.2967 said:I just want to know if Arenanet is happy with the current implementation of build templates.I think, the better question is whether NCsoft is happy with it and the money it makes.

I can't imagine it making a lot of money, to be honest. I, for one, have not wasted any money on it and am quite positive that I am in a majority with this.

[Asum.4960]

@ewenness.6482 said:I'm not going to address the price or the fact it's not an account-wide unlock. Others already did and I personally don't mind either way. If I like something, I'll pay for it unless the price is truly insane.

Considering it wasn't outlandish for hardcore multi gamemode players to have up to 10-20 builds per profession in Arc (~100-200 builds total), 10$/€, per Build, per character, imo is truly insane.

The system isn't robust enough to support that many builds in the first place, nor does it actually save any builds like Arc did, but even it it did, that's an insane amount of money for a small but essential core game feature.

[sewenewes.4176]

@DirtyDan.4759 said:They never were on sale.

The build storage is currently half off for me. The build template and equipment template are indeed not on sale.

This is actually another point I wanted to mention. Why are these split into three different unlocks? Needless complication.

@Asum.4960 said:Considering it wasn't outlandish for hardcore multi gamemode players to have up to 10-20 builds per profession in Arc (~100-200 builds total), 10$/€, per Build, per character, imo is truly insane.

The system isn't robust enough to support that many builds in the first place, nor does it actually save any builds like Arc did, but even it it did, that's an insane amount of money for a small but essential core game feature.

I would say it's hard to pin down the price of convenience but in its current iteration the feature is not really all that convenient anyway. Essentially all this build template business seems to do is shave down the time spent manually swapping gear and traits. If you ask ten people how much this is worth to them you'll get ten different answers. Possibly more. Now imagine that with thousands of people.

Not saying I like the price but I also understand the realities of free-to-play monetization.

[Amon.5042]

So... I quit playing when the new money-grab-templates came along and after a quick look at this thread I see that nothing has changed. That's too bad. I played this game every day to get at least the dailies and spent a good amount in the gem store. Maybe it's finally time to uninstall and move on. I just can't stand this terrible / overly-complicated / milking-the-cow aberration.

[Astralporing.1957]

@ewenness.6482 said:

@DirtyDan.4759 said:They never were on sale.

The build storage is currently half off for me. The build template and equipment template are indeed not on sale.

This is actually another point I wanted to mention. Why are these split into three different unlocks? Needless complication.Because it allows Anet to monetize one system thrice.

[Crackmonster.2790]

I got something to whine about here.

It doesn't save setting for weapon sheathing and bagpack visibility between equipment templates.

[c space cowboy.2764]

@Amon.5042 said:Maybe it's finally time to uninstall and move on. I just can't stand this terrible / overly-complicated / milking-the-cow aberration.

Same.

Although I uninstalled it when they released the triple money grab.

Been playing all the games I've skipped over the years.

[Ipomoea Jalapa.6897]

Can you please allow us to bind the same key to both a Build Template and an Equipment Template? It'd be great to be able to press a single key to get both Build Template 1 and Equipment Template 1. I don't see the harm in letting them overlap---you can just show a yellow warning instead of the red error, like you already do for lots of options.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

If you have nothing equipped with the offhand slot, even though you right click and choose the option that is not the offhand, it still puts it in the offhand slot.

[Kalan.9705]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Josiah.2967 said:I just want to know if Arenanet is happy with the current implementation of build templates.I think, the better question is whether NCsoft is happy with it and the money it makes.

Depends entirely if Arenanet are trying to track any metrics for the amount of money this feature has cost them? How many players have taken a break or reduced game time when they found such a naked milking scheme demotivating? I know no gems have been purchased in my household since build and equipment templates which was previously unheard of over such a period, especially including major holidays.

[Mikuchan.7261]

Still no response from ANet about the bigger issues, huh.That sounds promising...