Your opinion of Whisper of Jormag strike mission?

[Vinceman.4572]

I really doubt the myth of a clear progression and even if you think there's one Boneskinner and the new strike aren't content for regular players (and with that I don't mean the casual that isn't interested in challenging content at all). Strikes are nowhere near teaching anything very well or even preparing people for raids. The overwhelming majority playing strikes are already raiders and T4/CM fractal players according to titles, classes & AP in total. The concept of including others has failed hard and will continue to fail.My main affright is that so many raid veterans cheering for strikes although they are a cheap excuse and a heavy slap in the face of players that want an actual challenge. I cannot see in the slightest why those strikes should be a preliminary stage for raids. Imho a lot of people are blinded by the fact that strikes are the only thing on the horizon at the moment. Sad.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:True, there were too many huge damage mechanics going on, without the-you don't stop it you wipe Blizzard it would have been better.

The damage is quite low compared to a normal raidboss. Only threats are chains and the melee death zone in last phase.It would be totally fine if they just add a yellow border to the chained players. This boss also has a very low health pool and was definetely not balanced for raid comps so it seems fine.

But it's not raid, it's strike mission.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

Over the few wipes, I think Blizzard is the worst part.

It's not a hard mechanic, but it's the only part wiping one and has too short time to react when other things are going on. The chains, the big ice shards and balls are dangerous but would mostly kill like 2-3 ppl if not careful. Most of the pugs can still keep the fight on and rez some downed ones. Blizzard would mostly deal the wipe when a team was struggling.

Change it to like 5-10 secs cast and lower the damage/sec or have a longer warning could save a lot. Keep the other mechanics they are fine. For raiders it's not gonna affect much as well.

[Nephalem.8921]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:But it's not raid, it's strike mission.And it is easier than a raid so i dont see the problem. Except for maybe w4 bosses 1-3 but even they have higher dmg and instakill mechanics.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:But it's not raid, it's strike mission.And it is easier than a raid so i dont see the problem. Except for maybe w4 bosses 1-3 but even they have higher dmg and instakill mechanics.

Raids and Strike Mission target different groups of ppl.

[Yasi.9065]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:But it's not raid, it's strike mission.And it is easier than a raid so i dont see the problem. Except for maybe w4 bosses 1-3 but even they have higher dmg and instakill mechanics.

Raids and Strike Mission target different groups of ppl.

There you are quite wrong. Strikes are meant to fill the gap between openworld "run what you want, we dont care at all" and raid "meta builds only". The targetgroup of both is players interested in endgame pve content.What people tend to forget, is that GW2 still is an mmorpg. And part of every mmorpg is character developement, which includes (but isnt limited to) making your character as effective in combat situations as possible aka getting a proper build. Other mmorpgs are even more strict on this. If you neglect your build in ESO to a degree that many gw2 players do, the only thing you can do is maybe some gathering... though you will die often to normal mobs while doing so. And ESO always was a story mmorpg, sandbox mmorpg are even worse in that regard.GW2 is way too lenient. You shouldnt be able to survive on lvl80 maps without at least a fullset of exotics and a proper build. I digress however.

Strikemissions are meant to ease the progression from being a soloplayer in openworld pve to taking part in instanced organized pve endcontent. Targetgroups are exactly the same: people interested in developing their character in pve past the "pick flowers" stage.

[Aaralyna.3104]

I just cleared the whisper of jormag. I'm casual as I have only done 1 raid encounter being escort since I was curious after the 1st strike missions. I have cleared the new strike mission with pugs (yes we did ask for certain roles (healers/boons/dps) and we did not ask for any experience in lfg. I have never done fractals above the first t2 let alone cm. It took me from day 1 the patch came out, each time over 1 hour trying in a row.... But I vouch this boss does not need any nerf. Its a step up stone for ppl to try raids. Its not a step up stone for ppl trying to do dungeons or fractals which is the easy group content. And no player should expect you don't need any roles at all content (other games you cannot play without some roles either). The visuals I find clear enough (you shouldn't just stack so much that you cannot see it). You can still stack and spread a little amongst each other.

It does not mean that a player that never did fractals or dungeons cannot do strike missions or raids but they would need the right mindset, be able to know how the game works (positioning, cc, tells,...) and they should want to improve and learn and have at least exotic gear and a build that works well enough so you can do more than auto-attack which you cannot do at strike missions (ok at Grothmar one you can). Also don't forget ppl doing strikes will start with Grothmar strike > Bjora 1 (fraenir, twins, boneskinner) and then should do the new strike... Not the other way around unless they do raid or the like.

As for the blizzard warning... it comes at 20% of boss hp. Its fixed. So go ranged when near this number and blizzard nor balls is no problem to react on in time.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@Yasi.9065 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:But it's not raid, it's strike mission.And it is easier than a raid so i dont see the problem. Except for maybe w4 bosses 1-3 but even they have higher dmg and instakill mechanics.

Raids and Strike Mission target different groups of ppl.

There you are quite wrong. Strikes are meant to fill the gap between openworld "run what you want, we dont care at all" and raid "meta builds only". The targetgroup of both is players interested in endgame pve content.What people tend to forget, is that GW2 still is an mmorpg. And part of every mmorpg is character developement, which includes (but isnt limited to) making your character as effective in combat situations as possible aka getting a proper build. Other mmorpgs are even more strict on this. If you neglect your build in ESO to a degree that many gw2 players do, the only thing you can do is maybe some gathering... though you will die often to normal mobs while doing so. And ESO always was a story mmorpg, sandbox mmorpg are even worse in that regard.GW2 is way too lenient. You shouldnt be able to survive on lvl80 maps without at least a fullset of exotics and a proper build. I digress however.

Strikemissions are meant to ease the progression from being a soloplayer in openworld pve to taking part in instanced organized pve endcontent. Targetgroups are exactly the same: people interested in developing their character in pve past the "pick flowers" stage.

No, it's targeted at players who interested in group PVE without having to stick with guild/group. So it's a lot different than raids.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@Yasi.9065 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:But it's not raid, it's strike mission.And it is easier than a raid so i dont see the problem. Except for maybe w4 bosses 1-3 but even they have higher dmg and instakill mechanics.

Raids and Strike Mission target different groups of ppl.

There you are quite wrong. Strikes are meant to fill the gap between openworld "run what you want, we dont care at all" and raid "meta builds only". The targetgroup of both is players interested in endgame pve content.What people tend to forget, is that GW2 still is an mmorpg. And part of every mmorpg is character developement, which includes (but isnt limited to) making your character as effective in combat situations as possible aka getting a proper build. Other mmorpgs are even more strict on this. If you neglect your build in ESO to a degree that many gw2 players do, the only thing you can do is maybe some gathering... though you will die often to normal mobs while doing so. And ESO always was a story mmorpg, sandbox mmorpg are even worse in that regard.GW2 is way too lenient. You shouldnt be able to survive on lvl80 maps without at least a fullset of exotics and a proper build. I digress however.

Strikemissions are meant to ease the progression from being a soloplayer in openworld pve to taking part in instanced organized pve endcontent. Targetgroups are exactly the same: people interested in developing their character in pve past the "pick flowers" stage.

No, it's targeted at players who interested in group PVE without having to stick with guild/group. So it's a lot different than raids.

And it works just like that atm. You just get in, get the job done and get out. Difficulty of every strike is perfectly fine for that.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Vinceman.4572" said:The overwhelming majority playing strikes are already raiders and T4/CM fractal players according to titles, classes & AP in total. The concept of including others has failed hard and will continue to fail.

I'm not so sure about this, guild members that never touched raids, or T4/CM fractals are trying every Strike and we've included it as part of Guild Missions for a while now. Not only did we get more guild members to try instanced content but now we are discussing forming a new guild raid team, at least for the easier raid bosses. In my personal experience Strikes succeeded in bringing new players into instanced content and new players into Raids. Those in a pure raid guild won't see this, but those in more casual guilds that are raiding as a side activity might see an increase in raid interest. After all some of the Strikes are easier than some of the Raids, provided you have someone in Raids to "do the hard part".

My main affright is that so many raid veterans cheering for strikes although they are a cheap excuse and a heavy slap in the face of players that want an actual challenge.

Because some of the Strikes are an actual challenge, provided you go in with a group of people that have not done any instanced content in the past. Of course you are right, they are a cheap excuse, I'm not cheering for Strikes as challenging group content, they are far from it, I'm cheering for Strikes because they revitalized interest in instanced content, which was their intended purpose in the first place. Now for how long those will stay interested, is anyone's guess, the success/failure of Strikes won't be apparent until some time passes, I'll see their results by the end of the Icebrood Saga.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

I see a bright future for strike mission myself, provided proper rewards are given out for them. Looking at most recent one (Whisper of Jormag) - the challenge itself is good and fun. Just gotta make sure there are alluring rewards to make ppl want to replay and improve.

[Vinceman.4572]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Vinceman.4572" said:The overwhelming majority playing strikes are already raiders and T4/CM fractal players according to titles, classes & AP in total. The concept of including others has failed hard and will continue to fail.

I'm not so sure about this, guild members that never touched raids, or T4/CM fractals are trying every Strike and we've included it as part of Guild Missions for a while now. Not only did we get more guild members to try instanced content but now we are discussing forming a new guild raid team, at least for the easier raid bosses. In my personal experience Strikes succeeded in bringing new players into instanced content and new players into Raids. Those in a pure raid guild won't see this, but those in more casual guilds that are raiding as a side activity might see an increase in raid interest. After all some of the Strikes are easier than some of the Raids, provided you have someone in Raids to "do the hard part".

My main affright is that so many raid veterans cheering for strikes although they are a cheap excuse and a heavy slap in the face of players that want an actual challenge.

Because some of the Strikes are an actual challenge, provided you go in with a group of people that have not done any instanced content in the past. Of course you are right, they are a cheap excuse, I'm not cheering for Strikes as challenging group content, they are far from it, I'm cheering for Strikes because they revitalized interest in instanced content, which was their intended purpose in the first place. Now for how long those will stay interested, is anyone's guess, the success/failure of Strikes won't be apparent until some time passes, I'll see their results by the end of the Icebrood Saga.

Well, from this point of view I could partly agree. My main concern still stands that there's still nothing "on the table" for raid & fractal veterans and I severely doubt that their next announcement (according to massivelyop) will change much. I guess it's too late to revitalize stuff for that subset of players.

[Zephyra.4709]

Cleared it last night after 7 tries with pugs and many ppl leaving in between wipes. I was solo druid heals with another FB, then we decided to get a third one in. Had roughly 25 secs left on timer managed to get it. Cleared it again today after solid 2.5 hrs... 2 downed state boss 1%.. its a miracle the downed managed to get the last dmg in. A shame I didn't get the achievement though (rimebreath and icicle attacks??).

The strike difficulty is good; it genuinely requires paying attention to basic AoEs (albeit gets a bit of a cluster-f at 25%). The chains could do with a more visual queue, (everything in the instance is very blue/purple to begin with) perhaps a sound tone? I play quite zoomed out so that little red hourglass thing is sometimes amiss. A sound queue would be nice. Still have no idea what the green ball does past 50% or how many ppl we need on it.

My only gripe is the common (around 25%) one shot out of no where after you get thrown into the air, land and that seemingly 0.25 second delay is what's getting me killed by lord-knows-what. I'm not joking, I want to know what is killing me so I can be better but it's just so hard when things are happening too quickly. The only other problem I have is CC skill feels so clunky while taking dmg. There are many times where CC phase pops up, I'm already low on health only to correctly channel the CC and die in the process due to pulsing dmg. It feels very unfun not being able to move/use skills for half a second after casting, too. Idk, maybe it's just me but I can definitely guarantee there are some damaging skills in the encounter that have little to no visuals and leaves you thinking "wtf just one shot me". Unless its the green ball, I could be wrong.

Otherwise excellent strike, very enjoyable with a good, organised group. Do-able with pugs if ppl actually try and use meta builds. I still need that achievement though.. anyone know what skill is "rimebreath and icicle attacks"?

[Raknar.4735]

PUG'd it 3 times, the additional difficulty of being a PUG makes it more fun and more challenging.It's okay, last phase is a bit of a visual mess and really unfriendly to melee.Current indicators are fine, adding more to them would just make it less of a challenge.I agree with @"maddoctor.2738" sentiment that there should be a "role based" queue, something like Healer/DPS/Support(Buffer)

[Brynioch.1873]

@"Zephyra.4709" said:Otherwise excellent strike, very enjoyable with a good, organised group. Do-able with pugs if ppl actually try and use meta builds. I still need that achievement though.. anyone know what skill is "rimebreath and icicle attacks"?

Whisper Boxing? I think that achievement is part of the story version and not the strike. The strike achievements all award small mastery chests.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Since i like it I did it today again - 2 attempts, 2 easy clears. So difficulty is certainly not too high. It may be about your team comp (healers, supports). If you're struggling try playing one of those - my condi herald support is plowing through it while keeping my whole squad buffed real nice.

[Randulf.7614]

As soon as a working instance appears, I look forward to it. It just bugs out and no boss spawns on the rare chance I can find a full group.

[Dante.1763]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Linken.6345 said:You do know that strikes are supposed to prepare people for raidsThen they will be a failure. They will prepare only people that would be able to prepare for raids without them - and practically noone else. But that also means, that there will be a division - first, easier strikes doable by anyone, but boring to raiders, and later, harder strikes being done only by hardcore crowd, that would probably rather have a new raid wing.

The difference between the two groups they are theoretically aimed at is simply too great for strikes to be good for both of those groups at the same time.

Basically, if they'll be following the abovementioned goal, they'll be pointless.

Its already happening. Making them mandatory is gonna make moving forward even worse.

[Nephalem.8921]

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:Since i like it I did it today again - 2 attempts, 2 easy clears. So difficulty is certainly not too high. It may be about your team comp (healers, supports). If you're struggling try playing one of those - my condi herald support is plowing through it while keeping my whole squad buffed real nice.

A single druid provides the same. only fury isn't squad wide. condi herald support wouldnt count towards decent team comp.

[Zephyra.4709]

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@"Zephyra.4709" said:Otherwise excellent strike, very enjoyable with a good, organised group. Do-able with pugs if ppl actually try and use meta builds. I still need that achievement though.. anyone know what skill is "rimebreath and icicle attacks"?

Whisper Boxing? I think that achievement is part of the story version and not the strike. The strike achievements all award small mastery chests.

Oh wow, that completely skipped my mind. Looks like I'll have to re-do this story bit again, thanks!

[LordMorgul.9845]

@Asum.4960 said:I haven't tried it with an organized group with 10 competent players yet (since most of those I know have quit playing due to lack of content and the template fiasco, incl. me for the most part) so it's a bit hard to judge with PuG's, but it has actual mechanics you have to keep track of, so that is a huge improvement.

I can see it becoming very easy with everybody doing 20-30k DPS depending on how much mechanic skipping you can do with that, but with low DPS it actually feels pretty comparable in difficulty to easy W4 bosses like Cairn.So I would say just right for a semi-raid boss intending to prepare people for Raids by requiring the forming a decent composition, learning and keeping track of mechanics, communicating and having decent builds/DPS.

like cairn? i tink cairn is more easy than this for a pug

[Asum.4960]

@LordMorgul.9845 said:

@Asum.4960 said:I haven't tried it with an organized group with 10 competent players yet (since most of those I know have quit playing due to lack of content and the template fiasco, incl. me for the most part) so it's a bit hard to judge with PuG's, but it has actual mechanics you have to keep track of, so that is a huge improvement.

I can see it becoming very easy with everybody doing 20-30k DPS depending on how much mechanic skipping you can do with that, but with low DPS it actually feels pretty comparable in difficulty to easy W4 bosses like Cairn.So I would say just right for a semi-raid boss intending to prepare people for Raids by requiring the forming a decent composition, learning and keeping track of mechanics, communicating and having decent builds/DPS.

like cairn? i tink cairn is more easy than this for a pug

With decent DPS, similar to what you would see in Raid PuG's on bosses like Cairn, this Strike boss melts really quickly, drastically lowering the amount of mechanical pressure.The primary reason that makes Strikes feel somewhat challenging at times is the usually drastically lower quality of players.

Since they are intended as learning experience, I suppose that's fine. But they are quite a bit from the same level of actual difficulty, just perceived difficulty might be similar.

[LordMorgul.9845]

dunno i trayed on 250 li and other "raid" party but failed done only whit some guild mates and 2 extra heals

[zealex.9410]

Maybe anet should let the idea of strikes being the preparation for raids go and just focus on giving flexible group content for lw updates (group versions of story bosses)?

If you want ppl to try raids you can always have normal raids be easier. Tho ofc, a new player is very likely to get to 80, do lw, do the strike and then start getting into raids. I personally think we could have cm strikes between strikes and raids to further immerse ppl into instanced pve content.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

The huge advantage of strikes vs raids (when it comes to getting attention of more casual players) is that it's just one boss. Raids can be long if not with a good group, and because of that not only can they be daunting to less determined players, but are very hostile to newcomers. Most squads want experienced raiders or gtfo. Classic catch 22.

Meanwhile a strike is one boss. No annoying pre-sections, no other bossess you need to learn and clear before getting to it. And in some cases it can come pretty close to raid boss difficulty. This is great because the concept of a wipe is far less punitive here (you lost a fight, not progression on a whole wing and squad you were assembling for ages), and the concept of victory (beat a near raid-level boss in some cases) is very rewarding and helps players realize that raids are not impossible for them. With some training and proper gearing they can do it, if they can could clear the strike.

Just the rewards for strike need to be better, so players are incetivised to return, replay and get better. That will push them into improvement mindset and make them crave more challenging content - the raids.