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Balance Patch Preview - WvW


Cal Cohen.2358

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@"anonymous.7812" said:Cal,

If you can before the patch, please also look at Siege damage and health, since our damage will be nerfed against them. Also - for the love of jebus - Banners. At the very least Dragon Banner, it's not getting nerfed based on these notes, but should be.. it has strong CC and pretty good damage currently - it'll be abused to high heavens if this goes through. It also triggers traits, which is always fun getting immob'd when bannered.

For real, this. Even now the other group having a dragon banner when yours does not basically ruins the larger fights. It doesn't help that there is no account-based cooldown on who can pick up the banner so when you have trolls on your own server you have no defense against them.The siege is a mess to deal with already. Too many players just sit in their towers/keeps/etc. just manning siege. It's already extremely difficult to overcome, and the offensive group does not get anything to the effect of "keep fighting for WXP every 3-4 minutes!"

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o well i was expecting good changes, why did i fool my self even :D

i mean this probably the worst patch i've seen over multiple games.lets just lower every1 dmg/healing and increase CD on skills, touché guys i couldnt have thought of anything else..

hopefully im wrong and this change is actually mad good but as i look at it now even more people will bail out from WvW :(

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Nerfing stability, healing (coefficients) and damage sounds great for big zerg fights. But in my experience 2/3s of WvW is small scale. From the looks of it, these changes may cause small scale fights to suffer with more instances where players just cannot kill each other.

If we're seeing ~25-30% nerfs to damage, we need slightly higher nerfs to base healing in order to compensate. I get that the goal is to greatly cut down spike damage, but attrition damage over time arguably needs to be slightly higher than the damage nerf for combat to work. ~50% nerfs on healing coefficients are huge but this ONLY affects dedicated healing power sets which means the majority of players will self-heal just as well as before. I didn't math out the cooldown and base healing changes to be able to call this but it's something needs to be balanced right so that sustain isn't infinite and small scale fights never resolve.

Next, the universal nerf on hybrid cc/utility skill effects isn't well thought out. It's just lazy. To take a random example:"Gale Strike: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.275 to 0.01. Reduced bleeding duration from 5 seconds to 1 second"It continues to do no damage but the small amount of bleeding is reduced by 500%. This is a directional melee range skill with a 3/4s cast time. That means it almost never hits. The reward? 1.25s float (and no damage). The pre-nerf skill is already rarely worth using so what is the purpose of removing the already small hybrid damage component? It makes the skill pointless. And this isn't an on-demand CC either. It's a duel attunement skill that takes two specific attunement swaps to access (4-8 seconds). Just because a skill has a weak CC effect doesn't mean it should only CC. Particularly if the CC itself isn't buffed. There are more meaningful ways to nerf than making all CC skills only do CC which is boring, lazy and in many cases makes the skill pointless. Nerf cooldown, make it cast longer, etc...

Another case:Tornado: Reduced power coefficient of the base launch attack from 1.1 to 0.01. Reduced cooldown from 90 seconds to 60 secondsDebris Tornado: Reduced power coefficient from 0.5 to 0.01Dust Charge: Reduced power coefficient from 0.33 to 0.01Whirlpool: Reduced power coefficient from 2.2 to 0.01

Why though? I haven't seen an elementalist using tornado in years so this must be a meme. Universal nerfs for the sake of some kind of top-down abstract design principle is stupid and lazy. This isn't even a testing or balance issue. You can see right away it's just a lazy application of someone's top-down design decision they want to apply to everything equally. Just, no to this idea of universally making all CC skills do only that. It's possible for a skill to have a minor CC as a secondary/hybrid effect that is much too weak to be the entire purpose of the skill.

If we're talking about a real CC like Static Field, okay that CC effect actually pulls weight so sure nerf it to 0.01.

Also not a fan of the big duration increases on some utility skills, but yes, the counterplay point is taken. Will 70 second cooldowns on minor utility skills make things more fun? It might change some fight dynamics but in general less skills to use = less fun. We'll see I guess.

The last concern is with the overall nerf of burst damage for burst classes. Thief (which I don't play myself) is already not a strong class in WvW and it's only purpose is burst. Take away the burst from thief and what is the point? Not all classes are affected equally by a seemingly universal damage nerf.

TLDR: damage/stability/healing nerf = good. The way it's being done may cause problems and in some cases is just blatantly wrong and lazy.

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There are still going to be perma protection spam builds (some of which shouldn't exist) . Nerf the protection boon and give toughness to those who need it as compensation or get rid of it entirely and let the equiped weapon type per class determine what thoughness buffs you get. (with melee weapons giving more thoughness then range weapons).

Everything that grants resistance should be cut down to 3 sec or less.

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@"Virdo.1540" said:At first:

Warrior: ShieldShield Stance: Increased power coefficient from 25 seconds to 30 seconds (should be cooldown)

and second WHY DOES EVERYTHING GETS NERFED TO DEATH EXCEPT WARRIOR

REVS SHIELD IS STILL kitten³

What are you on about? Warrior gets nerfed just like everything else. Hammer build got completely neutered and that was the main thing in WvW. Now it's 100% a boon removal weapon because all the damage numbers are essentially gone, thanks to almost everything being a CC and the new baseline "high damage" skills they've set out to balance for. Have you seen the cooldown on passive stances? These traits are trash now. It's probably best to use them, get out of combat and switch them for the next fight because 5 minute cooldown is just ridiculous on a trait. Warrior can no longer survive running through a zerg with bubble unless he slots them specifically in his skill bar and even that is not enough if you have to push through a choke probably.


I agree with people saying this will result in unkillable zergs just clashing over and over again without downs, but I don't think we can say for sure. Tanky classes probably get away with more, although as I mentioned warrior won't have stances as easily available anymore. All in all I have to say I prefer being "weak" over being one shot. Numbers can still go up, but this massive changelist is a gigantic first step in the right direction. Rather overnerf upfront than later. Everything on a low level is easier to balance than when you just rush from one extreme to the other. So many "op" builds were found after other aspects of classes were nerfed, which then subsequently had to be nerfed etc. it keeps going and going, leaving some classes in the dirt while others are problematic, yet never on a level that high that they will be immediately killed off.

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@Cal Cohen.2358

So players will have to get more organized to whom is in defensive gameplay and offensive.

TDLR: more comunication and more organization will be needed, more call spikes, call targets will be needed, in theory those seam good values.

I dont mind ventari big heal geting reduced a bit more in future in trade of heal 10 players like the facets, rather than the useless orbs, ventari should have the option(IMO) to heal less and more targets, in case of the game gets lackluster in terms of heals.

Btw rip my 13k passive regen build for 10 players(1.3k * 10) with a aoe 12k heal every 3-4 sec :}

@Vova.2640

I can still see alot of diversity but based on player objectives in the party (more than the current and only way to play wich leads to same builds on FB,scourge,warrior,scrapper zerg comp)Having one meta wich is what is called lack of diversity, this will make players more avaliable to mix n match more stats.

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@"Cal Cohen.2358" said:Hi Everyone,

Today we’re previewing the upcoming balance update. We’re starting with a bit of process and general thoughts, then following up with a pile of patch notes. Note that this post is identical for the PvP and WvW subforums (minus the changes to PvP build items), but duplicated for the purpose of more easily obtaining mode-specific feedback.

This post will only be discussing the competitive splits. Check out the rest of the update at https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/96747/balance-patch-preview-global

The scope of this update ended up being slightly unreal in the raw number of changes, but there are only a handful of underlying ideas that were then considered against every skill and trait in the game. It so happens that there are a lot of those around here, and so a lot of changes ended up being made.

These changes are not final, and we’re expecting to make further adjustments based on player feedback as well as our own internal review. Some of the upcoming functional changes still need to be looked at for potential splits as well, but we feel that the overall list is in a good enough spot to gather feedback.

Future Balance Cadence

This patch is unusual in that it’s more about establishing a new paradigm than it is a regular balance update, and the result is a giant set of changes. Moving forward with competitive balance, we want to make smaller adjustments more often. The specific cadence for balance will always depend on our overall release schedule, but ideally it will be closer to every 4-6 weeks, while still having the opportunity to make minor tweaks outside of the regular balance update. The goal here is to have better flexibility to fix problems in a timely manner.

PvP and WvW

For this initial update, the bulk of the splits are being applied to both PvP and WvW because the underlying ideas are applicable to both modes. The end result is going to be radically different and moving forward we will be doing more separation and targeted adjustments on a per-mode basis.

Now we’re going to dive into more detail on some of the main targets of the update and our main goals moving forward. If you have no interest in power coefficients, damage calculations, or other assorted jargon you may want to scroll down until you hit the start of the patch notes.

Damage

For this update, we’re targeting a 2.0 power coefficient as the new baseline for big damage skills. These are the skills like Eviscerate; skills that exist to deal large amounts of damage and not do much else. Skills that provide more and more value in other aspects (cc, sustain, mobility, defense, etc.) will have lower power coefficients. In some cases, we’ve pared down the secondary value and in others we’ve shaved the damage. It really comes down to what the desired purpose of the skill is, and as such how much of the skill’s power budget should be spent on damage. The 2.0 is not a hard cap, just the general top-end for single hit, high damaging abilities.

One thing to keep in mind with damage calculation is the differences in weapon strength. For example, a 2.0 coefficient with an axe is approximately equivalent to a 1.82 coefficient with a hammer due to the hammer’s higher weapon strength.

With a marauder amulet and no outside modifiers, a 2.0 coefficient with a 1-handed weapon equates to about a 3.9k crit against a light-armor target. Our goal here is that players should need to invest into damage traits, slot offensive utility skills, and sequence abilities around might and vulnerability stacks in order to achieve significant damage numbers.

Condition damage reductions are a bit less math-y, but we’re continuing to push conditions toward less burst potential by reducing the number of stacks and extending durations where it makes sense. Some of this is handled on the skill level, and we’re also making heavy reductions to traits that apply conditions on hit, on crit, or on other conditions being applied.

Cooldowns and Durations

We want cooldowns to be felt. Longer cooldowns promote more calculated usage of skills; if skills are used poorly it should create an opportunity for the enemy to push their advantage. Shorter durations of high impact buffs have a similar effect. Skillful timing is going to be rewarded, and poor usage is going to be exploitable by enemies. In some cases, it’s still going to make sense to have a longer duration attached to a longer cooldown, but most of the time we’re looking at shorter durations for things like stability, protection, quickness, high might stacks, among others.

Sustain

Raw healing is always going to be closely tied to damage. As damage comes down, healing needs to be reduced as well. As mentioned above, we want to see more opportunity between cooldowns to push through damage, so we’re primarily targeting skills and traits with lower cooldowns or constantly pulsing heals.

Instant Skills and Passive Traits

Counterplay is important. Skills that have a major impact on an enemy player should allow that player the opportunity to react, which means that we want to avoid instant skills that do large amounts of damage or hard cc. In general, this means that instant skills are going to deal less damage or focus more on a secondary effect where applicable. Traits that fire instant skills, or that trigger an offensive effect under easy to fulfill conditions (on hit, on crit, mid-high health threshold, etc.) received similar considerations.

We’ve also done a pass on traits that provide automatic defensive triggers. Traits that negate incoming CC or grant hard damage mitigation are getting large cooldown increases. Lesser defensive procs (protection on cc, auto condition cleanse, etc.) are also receiving longer cooldowns or reduced effectiveness, though not as extreme. We want to promote more active gameplay and this update is a good opportunity to make heavier adjustments to these passive traits.

Patch Notes

Moving on to the patch notes. Remember that these changes are not locked down and we still have some time to iterate. We look forward to seeing your feedback.

-The Systems Team

I posted this in the other thread, but figured I’d ask here too...

“Questions...

Are there any future plans to improve team gameplay mechanics for heal and non-heal support roles and builds? Examples...

"Druid is clunky to heal with and some ideas would go a long way... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/39412/eye-on-druid-ideas-yay.

Ventari Tablet would be leaps more enjoyable if it were a "back pack", not a tablet that needed to be moved around trying to heal the cat herd.

Ele healer is most "fluid" of them all, but still feels uninspiring. Frustrating to heal teammates outside of tight blobs."

Any plans to rework the contentious stealth mechanics? Example... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/60005/stealth-rework-2-0

Any plans to reevaluate the Condition system? Example... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29999/condi-system-rework-2-0

Any plans to reevaluate the out-dated resource mechanics? Example... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91980/resource-mechanics-need-to-go-and-competitive-gameplay-will-be-better-for-it

Any plans to improve lesser used weapons for pvp and wvw? Examples...

"https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/32525/if-you-want-more-build-diversity-then-we-need-to-work-on-weapons-tooGW2 Path of Fire was released on September 22, 2017, and Ranger daggers still only have a niche use in pve… https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/568/daggers-need-redo-and-backstab.

Roam around in wvw and try getting into fights while using Reaper GS, and any competent player will pick you apart more often than not… hence the thoughts behind these… https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/58958/eye-on-necro-ideas.

Playing melee can suck much of the time, especially when ranged skills can hit super hard and there are a ton of melee weapons devoid of positioning, mobility and gap closers... Hence suggestion like these...

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/56624/warrior-needs-more-ranged-weapon-options

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/54848/melee-weapon-improvements-please

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9819/greatsword-changes

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/25754/necro-needs-movement-skills-tied-to-weapons

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9688/sugg-core-necro-needs-a-melee-weapon"

Will there be any larger shifts or changes that tackle some of the root causes of balance issues and frustrations with the game? Example... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62555/putting-fun-back-into-designs-and-balancing

Any plans to improve visual aspects of combat gameplay? Example... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67283/i-would-like-to-discuss-visual-tells-for-wvw

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@Arctisavange.7261 said:

@"apharma.3741" said:The difference is now you can't spam your cleanses and it'll be OK. Cleanse Tempest will still heal well and provide great AoE cleansing power.

If you have problems with conditions in the new meta it's probably you or the guy next to you that's playing badly and got too used to spamming skills and winning because that's how the game has been for the last 5 boring, tooth pulling years of expansion power creep.

TLDR: git gud scrubs.

Condis can be spammed hard right now and even after patch. The only reason people havent noticed any of this is cause of power creep overshadowing condition due to direct and bit of bigger damage.

If right now a 50 man blob would go over to full condi, you would kitten your pants seeing how many conditions they can chunk out.The last condition meta before current one died out cause of antitoxin rune which was nerfed to the ground ages ago and cause of power creep being a better alternative.

The condi cleanses you apply right now in power creep meta are against passive conditions that are just addons from the power skills. Theres a difference fighting in a meta with condition as main DPS with extra condis as passive addons over fighting in a meta with power as main DPS and as condition as a passive addons.

TLDR: learn the game.

Condition clears have long outpaced condition application assuming you're not standing in a focal point of a 50 man group.

If conditions were remotely an option in large scale you would be seeing people playing or at least experimenting with condition builds and comps but it's not because Firebrand exists.

Guess what? Firebrand will still exist with very little reduction in it's anti condition power, tempest loses some of it's 10 target but gets a reduction in aftershock CD so it's only a slight reduction in strength. You still have https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chapter_4:_Stalwart_Stand + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Lore un touched, depending on how rez skills play out you can run another cleanse which hasn't been touched. Relevant changes below.

Eternal Oasis: Reduced number of conditions converted to boons from 5 to 2Radiant Recovery: Reduced number of conditions cleansed from 2 to 1Overload Water: Reduced pulse heal coefficient from 0.2 to 0.1. Reduced target cap from 10 to 5Eye of the Storm: Reduced superspeed duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds. Reduced cooldown from 40 seconds to 35 secondsAftershock: Reduced total power coefficient from 1.5 to 0.1. Increased immobilize duration from 2 seconds to 3 seconds. Reduced protection duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds. Reduced cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds

TLDR: git gud, dodge bombs.

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@reddie.5861 said:o well i was expecting good changes, why did i fool my self even :D

i mean this probably the worst patch i've seen over multiple games.lets just lower every1 dmg/healing and increase CD on skills, touché guys i couldnt have thought of anything else..

hopefully im wrong and this change is actually mad good but as i look at it now even more people will bail out from WvW :(

+1

Here is a perfect example of what's going to happen:

(It is like hiring a pest control to eliminate rodents at your residence and intentionally leaving rodents specimens behind...untouched and patting themselves on their back and saying, 'hey, we did a good job' )

A specific 'Specimen' Stealth is intentionally being left behind, untouched and we are supposed to put a big smile on our faces??

-After many years of knowing and experiencing the Truth; i believe we clearly get-the-picture of the deception-

that we, you and i are not stupid

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Community asks for less damage, less healing, less condi spam, and less cleansing in order to address TTK. Something around 15-20% (not the usual "cut everything by half" crap you always do). And what do you give us instead? An entire rework of how WvW and PvP combat works!!!

I am all in favor of skill splits between the game modes, like the amount of damage/healing done, boon duration and stacks. Some of these are ok. They try to address those concerns.But you are changing the mechanics and feel on many skills as well by changing cooldowns, available charges, cast times, and so on. THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN!

Currently the only game modes I am playing are WvW and PvE and this is due to how in PvP nothing works the way it does in the other two game modes. Having to learn rotations and timing for a separate aspect of the game is severely off putting. With this patch you further entrench this philosophy and I for one ain't going to be learning 3 separate rotations..... per build.... per profession I play.... It's just plain stupid as hell!

The idea of making certain CC skills be focused more around the CC aspect, and other skills around damage is good. But as others have stated, there are no strong skills meant solely for high damage. Take Revenant sword skills 3-5 for example. Sword 5 has mobility so it can have its damage reduced no problem, Sword 3 had mobility and 1.5 sec of evade so it too can have it's damage reduced because as your current design ideas go you shouldn't be able to do it all. But Sword 4? That skill has all its damage and the immobilize effect occur within the time-span of a single dodge, and its highly telegraphed! That skill should stay as it is so you know skill is rewarded either for the player moving out of the way or for the Revenant trying to land it. The immobilize can have its duration reduced maybe but it too is part of the reward the Revenant has for getting it to land.

Furthermore, -50 endurance for Mirage only in PvP/WvW is so unbelievably short sighted. And again, it's such a massive change to how it plays in one game mode versus the others. I understand you want the spec to have a drawback SO MAKE IT ONE FOR ALL GAME MODES! And something not as ridiculous as -50 endurance, maybe cut endurance regen by 50%, or increase the cost of the Mirage Cloak dodge to 55 endurance points so the player has to wait for that extra endurance tick to dodge again in order to avoid the dodge/clone-gen to Shatter spam. Maybe you forgot that axe is the weapon conferred by the Mirage specialization and it is a MELEE weapon thus the ability to stand face-to-face is paramount for that weapon skills to work effectively. Unless of course what you want to say is that no Mirage should ever play as melee again, at which point just give us a new weapon for the elite spec, something that would actually work and wouldn't be contradictory to the way you want us to play the specialization....

Also, Prime Light Beam for Holosmith is an elite skill. Reducing the power coefficient from 3.00 to 0.01 essentially just make it into pure CC which makes it into a regular skill, definitely not something worthy of being called "elite".   

Tl;dr: Adjust TTK with less damage, less healing, less condi spam, and less cleansing. Split skills here and there to address boon duration and stacking. LEAVE MECHANICS ALONE!!! Cooldowns, cast times, charges, etc. should be the same across all game modes!

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"Executioner's Scythe: Reduced power coefficients from 2.0/2.6/3.2 to 0.01/0.015/0.02 (Above 50%/Below 50%/Below 25%). Increased stun duration from 1.5 seconds to 2.5 seconds" This is hilarious.....a skill that is so obviously telegraphed from space and so slow as that it barely works in PvE and you take all it's damage and increase a stun that is never likely to land in the first place against a player.....why not just put an empty slot in it's place. What a bunch of crap, painfully obvious not one of you have ever played a Reaper!

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it's okay, we just bring zergs of omega golems now, at least they'll still do damage and should be basically invincible :expressionless:

arenanet, why did u even put your attention on the battles? nobody asked for that, outside of some weirdos maybe. the whole format needed some polishing, instead now everybody will have to re-learn it, which is more than uncomfortable (or likely will be that, from how the update notes read).

still the main issues will be there: no new content, no motivation to play (rather even the annoyance to get new Wvw-builds with special cooldowns to learn?)

since neither maps, eotm nor invisibility (we will never catch that one hiding thief in a keep now.. i mean we can find him like usual [or not], but thiefs don't die from slaps with wet noodles; before, a thief could out-dance up to 10 people, do we now have a freaking zerg hunt them? clap clap) got touched, and the alliance system is still not even discussed, the rewards are still lackluster... tbh no idea where to start even. all the things that have been asked for were dropped, and instead "YOOO heard you like new class balance , everything sucks now"

@"KidRoleplay.3615" said:So, I can't help but wonder. With all the damage nerfs across the board, does this mean NPCs and Keep champs are going to be an absolute young feline to kill now?that'll be the least problem. you still have the option to invest WvW-points (mastery) into dmg against guards, each single Wvw-infusion gives "+1 dmg against guards etc" afaik@XenesisII.1540 said:

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:i have no idea yet, what this is going to be in field. but for example, (after a not very detailed reading since it's post 2am and some beer here) prime light beam (holo) power coefficient drop from 3.0 to 0,01? so we toss that elite simply, because that's never ever worth even firing on anybody... and do condi-trash gets their nerf too? i didn't catch that, but most dmg-nerfs look from afar a bit directed towards power)

It has a 5 target unblockable launch effect, all the control skills have had their damage reduced, it also was reduced from 60 to 40s cooldown to compensate.it will still be rather pointless, unless we can play condi-holos now, which might become the case. dmg-bursts alone aren't getting anywhere with this. the cooldown of a slow skill that does not regular dmg is questionable, will depend on how this finally plays out; there might be other elite specs to go for now. a fully charged prime light beam before could fail yet to do more than 70% to a thief on a direct hit - the cooldown does likely not make up for the huge loss of effective damage on powerDps builds.

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TL;DR none of us have any idea what's going to happen in practice, on the field. The changes are just that many and that extreme it changes every class interaction in combat.

Personally, I am mostly worried about these ever increasing cooldowns in order to "balance" skills (in particular the ridiculous 90->300s) and they are just making the combat unfun. Its not just this patch, it's been going on for a while. GW2 at its best is quick play-counterplay. The enemy pops a skill, you dodge. You pop a skill, the enemy block. The enemy stealth, you AoE knockdown. I'm all for skills doing less things at once and damage being weaker but the cooldowns... man...

Anet. Look. I want to fight. Not sit and wait for cooldowns.

I want to have fun.

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@Kirnale.5914 said:PLease Arenanet consider balancing stealth. Give some counterplay to it or nerf the insane stack duration. At this rate both roaming and the keeps will be full of deadeyes as they cannot be burst down anymore. Cap stealth per minute or something, I don't care how but address it

+1

Next phase of Toxicity is Chaos

All Deceptive Masks Off

Prepare for Chaos

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@God.2708 said:Most people here are looking at the patch through the current balance paradigm's lense and it is making their ability to judge the patch very cloudy.

...Instead of looking at the patch though the lenses of the remaining developers, which had no clue about how the game worked in the competitive parts of the game and never tested the truckload of changes that they will introduce suddenly, with no remorses...

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@Virtuality.8351 said:Will this leave Expertise some potential, for that the attribute contributes more the higher the base durations are, or will it be completely neglected as how it is at the moment, due to constant cleansing and possibly Resistance, which might just start to prevail in response to the shift to condition pressure, or just the sheer enhanced baseline duration making further investment pointless? Will the attribute become actually viable?

Expertise becomes worse the longer the base duration of the condition is due to a higher likelihood of getting cleansed. It works better for condition bursts.

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@Gryxis.6950 said:

@Thundabolt.8541 said:So, let me get this straight

You're putting a skill lock on Ele's obsidian flesh, but Warrior STILL gets to use their weapons during defiant stance?

You're making it really difficult for me to respect you, Aenet.

You can cc a war during defiant stance, it's not the same as an invulnerability

So just run CC on everything now, is that what you're suggesting?

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Well, without even considering that condis are going to be completely overpowered and will be nerfed many times in subsequent patches after this one gets released (i've been playing wvw since core and have thousands of hours, it's as clear as the sky and if no relevant changes are made time will just prove me right), what makes me laugh (and triggers me) the most is that together with the nerfs they are making to skills and traits that needed to be nerfed, because they were just far too good compared to the other options, they nerfed the other options too, just to make sure none of them will get viable and we'll be playing the same skills anyway, just nerfed or condi builds instead.Like, come on, take the guard for example: Hold the Line? Hallowed Ground? Signet of Restoration? EMPOWERING MIGHT? SWORD OF JUSTICE? who even thinks of using these? they are comepletely useless, so why make sure they will continue being so? this was a great occasion to bring some diversity to the game, so why are you making sure that won't happen? I would really like an answer to why clearly underperforming skills had to be tuned down as well, for i am completely sure that each of the skills i mentioned above, as well as many others, would still be as useless as they now are even if not changed.

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