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Balance Patch Preview - WvW


Cal Cohen.2358

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@apharma.3741 said:If conditions were remotely an option in large scale you would be seeing people playing or at least experimenting with condition builds and comps but it's not because Firebrand exists.

you can't be serious? Firebrand doesn't clear condi's at all man...do you even arcdps?

If you think they do not cleanse or provide condition immunity (not registered in arc fyi) through correct application of resistance then you must be playing with your eyes closed and your brain off. It won't be the top 3 cleansing players but below that when played by people who use skills they make up a significant part of a groups cleansing and double firebrand played by anyone who isn't a potato can more than keep up with condition application.

The tempests being the top cleanses on arc is mostly because of 10 target cleanses, it's kind of hard to compete for cleanses against a class that can press 1 button and cleanse 40+ conditions, press another button and cleanse 15 conditions....because that's literally how broken tempest is for cleansing if played by someone who can hit buttons. Good news though, that's barely being touched outside of water overload.

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@apharma.3741 said:If you think they do not cleanse or provide condition immunity (not registered in arc fyi) through correct application of resistance then you must be playing with your eyes closed and your brain off. It won't be the top 3 cleansing players but below that when played by people who use skills they make up a significant part of a groups cleansing and double firebrand played by anyone who isn't a potato can more than keep up with condition application.

Sure Chap 4 is nice and all for resistance. But we weren't talking about resistance, we were talking about cleansing. Resistance can be corrupted and counter-played, cleansing can not, which Firebrand is so low cleansing in comparison to say a tempest or a scrapper.

Think of it this way... If you are fighting a condi-blob, then you are fighting against corruption...where resistance will get stripped instantly and turned into a condition that you need to cleanse... If you think firebrand is what's holding that play-style at bay, then i don't know what to tell you.

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Looks like a knee-jerk nerf. Ele definitely needed some tone down but we'll have to see if this is as harsh as it appears.Disappointed that spam mezmer builds and dump and run teefs go untouched again tho.Disappointed that no replacement for the scrapper reveal has been brought in yet. I don't care what class it's on but stealth is way out of balance since its removal. Perhaps "sniff" could be placed slottable so that you dont have to be out of combat and mounted to use it. (Just a knee-jerk thought off the top of my head)

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@apharma.3741 said:If you think they do not cleanse or provide condition immunity (not registered in arc fyi) through correct application of resistance then you must be playing with your eyes closed and your brain off. It won't be the top 3 cleansing players but below that when played by people who use skills they make up a significant part of a groups cleansing and double firebrand played by anyone who isn't a potato can more than keep up with condition application.

Sure Chap 4 is nice and all for resistance. But we weren't talking about resistance, we were talking about cleansing. Resistance can be corrupted and counter-played, cleansing can not, which Firebrand is so low cleansing in comparison to say a tempest or a scrapper.

Think of it this way... If you are fighting a condi-blob, you are fighting against corruption...where resistance will get stripped instantly and turned into a condition that you need to cleanse... If you think firebrand is what's holding that play-style at bay, then i don't know what to tell you.

2 things.

  1. Pulsing 1s resistance is as good as cleansing. Do you know why? Because you get to not suffer the penalties of the conditions. This is honestly not a basic concept that should need explaining. Whether you permanently remove the condition or differ it's effects to a period of time where the enemy cannot benefit from it's application is the same thing in effect.
  2. You're comparing FB built for healing to 2 class/build combinations that are set up to cleanse primarily and built from the ground up to do so. FB outheals both these classes or should if not played by a brain damaged monkey, however we don't turn round and ignore the amount of healing tempest and scrapper both contribute to the group simply because they come behind FB. Likewise we shouldn't ignore the amount of cleanses FB contributes and it can contribute more if it drops MI in favour of group cleanses like purging flames which will depend on how much they nerf healing on MI etc. I would still expect FB to come further down the cleanse list though because 10 target literally doubles your cleansing power however I don't think it would be needed.
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@Hadi.6025 said:

@Hadi.6025 said:Killed power builds but Trailblazer / Protection / boon duration builds untouched. Good luck trying to kill that one guy standing around waiting for his zerg to come run you over.

You seem like a sad panda. Oh how the tables have turned ?

Tell us more, or shall I say QQ moar?

do i know you?Not under this alias, but I’ve been drinking your twitch tears for years now.
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My solution for stealth would be to have after being stealth or invis for 3 seconds you gain a debuff causing any skill to reveal you at the start of its cast and also players within 200? (Somewhere just outside of melee) to be able to see you. Would give that 1/4 second to react while not stopping stealth blasting for groups ect or removing the viability of using stealth to escape from melee as you have 3 second grace period to escape melee range

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@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@Hadi.6025 said:Killed power builds but Trailblazer / Protection / boon duration builds untouched. Good luck trying to kill that one guy standing around waiting for his zerg to come run you over.

You seem like a sad panda. Oh how the tables have turned ?

Tell us more, or shall I say QQ moar?

do i know you?Not under this alias, but I’ve been drinking your twitch tears for years now.

oh a weird fan boy. Want an autograph? i dont even stream like that loser lmfao.
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I like where this i going, maybe it will feel like core times once again :)

But:

  • Did you forget about condis? I feel like you forgot them, they should be nerfed as well to match power
  • Defy Pain sould be invul as well and lock warriors out of spells just like obsidian flesh
  • Why are you always so drastic? Like every cc skill now has a coeffiecent of 0.1, bulls charge got reduced from 2.0 to 0.1. It feels like you never learn that there are adjustments inbetween. 0.5 would probably be also fine. I think the minimum amout on the ccs could at least match the damage of an auto attack
  • Replace 300sec cd auto proc traits with sth useful, i also saw same cd for pvp, are you serious? It will proc twice a match. Come on be more creative please
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Somebody pinch me...am I seeing this? Elite specs and overall powercreep being addressed right before my eyes after such a long time?

All I can say is....yes! I am on board! I support it. Loving the general nerf of damage and sustainability, especially of elite specializations. Consider this great feedback!

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@Hadi.6025 said:

@Hadi.6025 said:Killed power builds but Trailblazer / Protection / boon duration builds untouched. Good luck trying to kill that one guy standing around waiting for his zerg to come run you over.

You seem like a sad panda. Oh how the tables have turned ?

Tell us more, or shall I say QQ moar?

do i know you?Not under this alias, but I’ve been drinking your twitch tears for years now.

oh a weird fan boy. Want an autograph? i dont even stream like that loser lmfao.

Sign my boobs with your salty tears. I guess I haven’t stream sniped you in a while so you’re getting mouthy again.

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@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@Hadi.6025 said:Killed power builds but Trailblazer / Protection / boon duration builds untouched. Good luck trying to kill that one guy standing around waiting for his zerg to come run you over.

You seem like a sad panda. Oh how the tables have turned ?

Tell us more, or shall I say QQ moar?

do i know you?Not under this alias, but I’ve been drinking your twitch tears for years now.

oh a weird fan boy. Want an autograph? i dont even stream like that loser lmfao.

Sign my boobs with your salty tears. I guess I haven’t stream sniped you in a while so you’re getting mouthy again.

here you go nerd fGY3Nk2.png

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@Cal Cohen.2358 said:

Engineer

Firearms

  • Sharpshooter: Reduced bleeding duration from 3 seconds to 1 second
  • Serrated Steel: Reduced bonus bleeding duration from 33% to 15%
  • Thermal Vision: Reduced expertise from 150 to 60
  • Juggernaut: Reduced might duration from 12 seconds to 6 seconds. Reduced bonus might duration from 20% to 10%
  • Incendiary Powder: Reduced bonus burning duration from 33% to 10%. Reduced burning duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds

As I flipped through engi changes the only request I really have is please make serrated steel and incendiary powder provide the same amount of additional duration. Don't care which you pick of the 2, just make them the same so it's easier for us to build around when optimizing for multiple condi durations since the 100% additional duration cap is a thing and having 95% or 105% in one or the other feels bad.

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@"Zavage.6270" said:

  1. main concern, you nerfed direct damage on cc's into almost non-existence and that's fine. However damage conditions that are on cc's remain unaffected by this change. Will this not merely create a very high condi based meta because their cc skills will still apply a large amount of damage from their condition?

    For Example: Magic bullet on mesmer. It can hit up to 4 people and apply 3 stacks of confusion, stuns the first target, dazes the second and blinds the third. It already has a low damage coefficient however the amount of damage you'll take from the condition application will remain unchanged. Simply put cc's that apply damage conditions aren't losing their main damage dealt on CC's where as power based builds are losing them entirely. Do you think this will be an issue?

This is also my concern, we have seen Nerf's overall to power coefficient, but not a direct damage Nerf to condition application, which primarily was the biggest issue because conditions stacked making it the cause of dying to outrages conditions apply by 1 person or multiple without having enough condi clense. if condition damage/application is not Nerf I fear it will remain being an issue like it has in the past.

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@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"reddie.5861" said:o well i was expecting good changes, why did i fool my self even :D

i mean this probably the worst patch i've seen over multiple games.lets just lower every1 dmg/healing and increase CD on skills, touché guys i couldnt have thought of anything else..

hopefully im wrong and this change is actually mad good but as i look at it now even more people will bail out from WvW :(

+1

Here is a perfect example of what's going to happen:

(It is like hiring a pest control to eliminate rodents at your residence and intentionally leaving rodents specimens behind...untouched and patting themselves on their back and saying, 'hey, we did a good job' )

A specific 'Specimen' Stealth is intentionally being left behind, untouched and we are supposed to put a big smile on our faces??

-After many years of knowing and experiencing the Truth; i believe we clearly get-the-picture of the deception-

that we, you and i are not stupid

At the end kinda feels a bit like its the same as Anet would increased health pools since damage and heals will be lower, i do think it will result to a better in more skilled group rather than build + aoe+ numbers situations.

But theres more, damage CC skills are now CC effect mostly , some of the simple rotations were based on CC and high damage on the same time and some builds could have some decent to strong sustain.

People will have to focus on strategies more rather than search lame gimicks(like the current aoe gameplay we have atm), as in who's for the suppor/heals, damage and maybe some inner small group tied for CC's or damage with CC's, its not all can do alot at sametime, wich was leading tu overperformance of the players and classes during a certain momentum.Game probably wont be that basic and simple how it is now to carry trough damage ouput, so many will hate if their overperformance is nerfed.

Stealth must be a spaghety of code, touch and it becames far worse, dont forget that on a 50 vs 50 the players that will keep stealthing and unstealthing will get "culled" efect over time and the enemy will only see the guild tag and the health bar of the culled players, so its must be quite tricky to touch stealth, maybe tweaking times and removing thief capability to remove the reveal would be a nice change, and way less stealth on classes would help as well.

Im worried about mesmers.

Overall this is some sorta of reset on skills, ofc they will increase and drecrease quoficients in some skills.Anet will have to pay atention to what increases players feel skill need, alot of gw2 only know how to play with powercreeping.

TDLR: this is the price for never having a true balance iteration on the game. so alot of skill damage output had to be reseted CC's mainly.

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Hell as far as balance goes between core and elites you should of just made a core trait line and force players to choose one of the now 3 class lines plus 2 from the ones we already have outside of elite. You can then add or subtract % bonus or nerf to each of the 3 specs in damage/condi to make balance easier across all modes.

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@Aeolus.3615 said:

I can still see alot of diversity but based on player objectives in the party (more than the current and only way to play wich leads to same builds on FB,scourge,warrior,scrapper zerg comp)Having one meta wich is what is called lack of diversity, this will make players more avaliable to mix n match more stats.

You dont seem to understand how this game works......Just look at the changed and think for a sec...

Revs basically lost half their dmg. It is not very likely that ppl will play power herald anymore. Better stack scourge instead cause wells barely got nerfed.

Warrior was mainly used for dome... that got hard nerfed as well (not to mention the dmg on hammer....).. replace all warriors with scourge bwecause once again, wells barely got nerfed both in terms of dmg and corruption.

Stability on guardian got hard nerfed + no other class has any reliable way to apply stability to allies. What does this mean?This means now groups will more likely need 2 FBs per party, which means other other type of healer will now lose its slot in a party.Diversity suffers.

I can already see groups going back to being 40% minstrel FBs, 50% dire/trailblazer scourge, 10% warrior/scrapper/tempest/renegade.This is the worst possible balance patch they could push....

They need to add mechanics to other classes so that they could be useful in some ways in wvw, not take away everything thus bringing wvw fights down to a crawl because everyone hits like a wet noodle.........

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@Vova.2640 said:

I can still see alot of diversity but based on player objectives in the party (more than the current and only way to play wich leads to same builds on FB,scourge,warrior,scrapper zerg comp)Having one meta wich is what is called lack of diversity, this will make players more avaliable to mix n match more stats.

You dont seem to understand how this game works......Just look at the changed and think for a sec...

Revs basically lost half their dmg. It is not very likely that ppl will play power herald anymore. Better stack scourge instead cause wells barely got nerfed.

Warrior was mainly used for dome... that got hard nerfed as well (not to mention the dmg on hammer....).. replace all warriors with scourge bwecause once again, wells barely got nerfed both in terms of dmg and corruption.

Stability on guardian got hard nerfed + no other class has any reliable way to apply stability to allies. What does this mean?This means now groups will more likely need 2 FBs per party, which means other other type of healer will now lose its slot in a party.Diversity suffers.

I can already see groups going back to being 40% minstrel FBs, 50% dire/trailblazer scourge, 10% warrior/scrapper/tempest/renegade.This is the worst possible balance patch they could push....

They need to add mechanics to other classes so that they could be useful in some ways in wvw, not take away everything thus bringing wvw fights down to a crawl because everyone hits like a wet noodle.........

Lamers group trying to win with overperformance sturdiness will do that, yes... like they do it now.....

Stop thinkin in meta, cause atm there isnt build diversity either.

Players will have to be more dedicated to certain roles if they want to gain more or stack more of the same wich is s tupid, the boon stacking is another mistake of the dev's, they should add kept the gw1 system that avoid this kinda of stacking gameplay.But that's another story and mistake done by Anet, maybe it will take another 7 years to notice.

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@Aeolus.3615 said:Lamers group trying to win with overperformance sturdiness will do that, yes... like they do it now.....

Stop thinkin in meta, cause atm there isnt build diversity either.

You're kidding right.................Everyone wants to win. meta exists for a reason... because it is what is THE BEST currently.If you enjoy losing fights and dying.... then run w.e you want.but guess what, most people want to win and will run whatever BS they are forced to run in order to win.This is a problem that ANET creates and leaves people with no choice but to follow it.

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