Is WvW Roaming dead with new balance patch?

[subversiontwo.7501]

@OP Why would it be? Your discussion could use a little a framing.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@"apharma.3741" said:Roaming is affected more atm by warclaw than by balance. Yes even this mega nuke is nothing compared to what warclaw did because it gave everyone extreme travel speed for no cost removing one of the opportunity costs of being stronger in a fight vs being able to gtfo.

It's probably gonna be about equal to be honest. This just killed any possible diversity that made roaming interesting, while warclaw removed its purpose and capacity to fight evenly.

What this change basically did was make the solution to most problems in WvW become "get more people playing condi/bunker/cheese" than "become better players and get creative with counters."

GW2 still won't have a metagame, and the gameplay aspects that made people quit en masse have not been addressed.

We're still reading patch notes and hoping we can return one day. But this misses the mark.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Its look like its the same changes across the board so it shouldn't change the balance in roaming. I think tankier roamers are going to last even longer now.

[Hadi.6025]

it will be when you find out all your friends quit and the only people that are left are people that run support in every small group fight. Just be prepared to get outnumbered and CC'd to death.

[Sekai.2987]

just play condi, ez kills

[Kovu.7560]

The power stat got a massive nerf effectively, due to all of the coefficients being gutted across the board for everyone. Meanwhile sustain got a smaller nerf. You'll find fewer roamers investing as heavily into power (as it means less) and more into condition damage and defensive stats (which'll counter some of that sustain loss caused by skill nerfs). Overall fights will get longer, uncoordinated/solo bursts will be less successful.

Therefore my prediction is that the professions with the tools to stealth and kite will have a greater edge in combats and will see improved survival odds. Thieves, mesmers mostly. Pocket firebrands will be even more impossible to kill because while (I assume, I haven't read the guardian notes) they haven't gotten much worse at what they do, the people trying to focus them down will have a more difficult time doing so -- so you'll likely see more of them in small groups. Guardians aside, tanky warrior, engineer, elementalist & ranger builds will be nigh unkillable, at best you could hope for a draw. There will be a lot more draws in power v. power fights with these changes. Will likely revert to a condi bunker meta.

Initial thoughts.

~ Kovu

[Crackmonster.2790]

Roaming will thrive even better than before, heals got nerfed harder than dps, can't outsustain and dps nerfed what 1/3 but currently you can bring a player down in seconds so people will just take an extra second...

[Xenash.1245]

No it won't there's just going to be less classes that can reliably do it and defend themselves, at least that's what it looks like on paper right now. If anything I'd say be careful about smart thieves if you ever want to roam since there's two builds I can think of that haven't been really changed much with the patch notes we have now.

Given those builds used to be cheesy, I can't really say they'll remain that way for the upcoming build given everything else.

[SehferViega.8725]

I use to solo roaming with my thief..Dagger/Pistol Daredevil will be impossible to play..Sword/Dagger core thief.. same cause all the heavy nerf to AcrobaticsStaff.. well, we will lose the Acrobatics built that is the best..All my favourite build on my fav class will be nuked down in a sigle patch. What will I play? Shadow Arts (untouched) builds?

How it will suppose a thief will face multiple enemy? And not only a Thief, everyone!..This patch goes in the direction: Damage reduction + Breakstun cooldown increase + lower sustain/healing.. So you will need more time to kill a single player and you will have less opportunity to breaakstun or heal yourself..Now consider a normal solo roaming situation: a 1vs3 in order to capture a camp.. Now If you are a good player and your enemies are average players, you can win the fight.With new patch you will need more time to kill an enemy, if they are 3, well, they could daze/stun you easily. If the fight last too much, the first player you will have killed, will have the time to come back.. camp sentinel will respawn, ect..

IMHO this patch was born thinking only about Zergs.. Solo roaming players will get only disadvantages.Considering that in Guild Wars 2 the only way to have some 1vs1 against other players is solo roaming ad duells this is a true shame.

[RedShark.9548]

@"Dawdler.8521" said:With so many wide changes its impossible to tell anything but it wouldnt surprise me if Anet missed something that was previously ok and now gonna be stupid OP.

Also those 300s skills... I have joked about how Anet will balance in the past. Like a skill having 30s cd, the community all agree "yeah a little strong, nerf to 40s" and then Anet goes "CD INCREASED TO 120s".

Turns out it was no joke. It was an understatement.

They should just delete those traits and give us active traits to choose, deleting them with 300s cd is just lazy af.

@SehferViega.8725 said:I use to solo roaming with my thief..Dagger/Pistol Daredevil will be impossible to play..Sword/Dagger core thief.. same cause all the heavy nerf to AcrobaticsStaff.. well, we will lose the Acrobatics built that is the best..All my favourite build on my fav class will be nuked down in a sigle patch. What will I play? Shadow Arts (untouched) builds?

How it will suppose a thief will face multiple enemy? And not only a Thief, everyone!..This patch goes in the direction: Damage reduction + Breakstun cooldown increase + lower sustain/healing.. So you will need more time to kill a single player and you will have less opportunity to breaakstun or heal yourself..Now consider a normal solo roaming situation: a 1vs3 in order to capture a camp.. Now If you are a good player and your enemies are average players, you can win the fight.With new patch you will need more time to kill an enemy, if they are 3, well, they could daze/stun you easily. If the fight last too much, the first player you will have killed, will have the time to come back.. camp sentinel will respawn, ect..

IMHO this patch was born thinking only about Zergs.. Solo roaming players will get only disadvantages.Considering that in Guild Wars 2 the only way to have some 1vs1 against other players is solo roaming ad duells this is a true shame.

Lol, since stealth most wasnt touched at all, thief will benefit the mosz from hit. Who will be able to kill you? You can just enzer stealth whenever you drop low hp and can reengage whenever you decide to, nobody having the burst to stop you.

Nerf stealth pls. And while you at it, take a look at downstate, the health stays the same while cleave gets nerfed across the board.

[JTGuevara.9018]

The hell it is! If anything, it will resurrect it.

[cobbah.3102]

@Fish.2769 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Could be that roamer need actual skill now instead of playing cheese to win.

Puts down cheeseboard

Ahem, what?

I love double cream Brie cheese

[alain.1659]

Don't think so. But things will be really chaotic for a while. People think that mes and thief will dominate but in my opinion we will see different professions on the field after some time (first period might be dominated by thieves)As stealth professions lost (or weakened in) their one shotting ability, semi bunker builds will rise again. Condi is a problem but there are good condi removals/cleanses still.I see interesting build possibilities like ferocity stacking soulbeast, rifle burst warrior or a tanky dragonhunter. But these are just far fetched guesses.

But I am utterly shocked to see no work on renegade, druid, mesmer glamour fields, engi tools, ventari validity in wvw so I guess the same meta will go on with the same professions. Still build diversity seems to be missing. But they might bring new elite specs as they prevously did after huge nerfs.

[Clownmug.8357]

Don't know, it'll probably be less fun though. Condi builds will likely flourish and stealth users will be able to reset fights more easily.

[ILoveMonotony.1479]

At least for me personally it will be much better. I honestly can't wait.

[Nimon.7840]

For me as a necro - yes.

Even less stability and higher cooldowns for stunbreaks.

While already opressive ele builds gain stability and lower cooldowns on stunbreaks

[AliamRationem.5172]

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:Could be that roamer need actual skill now instead of playing cheese to win.

When you win, it's "skill". When you lose, it's "cheese". And people who are complaining about class balance now will still be complaining about after the patch.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Nimon.7840" said:For me as a necro - yes.

Even less stability and higher cooldowns for stunbreaks.

While already opressive ele builds gain stability and lower cooldowns on stunbreaksYet in the ele forum they are proclaiming the end of the world.

Again: we have absolutely no idea what the new combat balance between classes will be with so many, so deep and so wide changes. Just saying "my build now sucks because X and Y skill is nerfed" doesnt work when people keep comparing to enemy classes of today.

[Belorn.2659]

I play on dead man's hours and going to continue to get in my dimond rank. Unless the map has more players then I will by definition be roaming.

[Shroud.2307]

Anyone that continues to roam today was stubborn enough to roam early HoT and PoF when balance was at it's worst. If they keep playing after the patch they will keep roaming too.

It has been an increasingly punishing hobby as GW2 has progressed which has made it less enjoyable, but not impossible. People say it's "dead" because it is often more frustrating than fun, not because it can't be done.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I wonder if this damage nerf will bring any new players in. even if it does they'll leave as soon as they figure out that the majority of one shot burst builds will still one shot them or close enough.

[lodjur.1284]

Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

[LetoII.3782]

Sky is falling Sky is falling

[SehferViega.8725]

@lodjur.1284 said:Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

Please explain me how lower damage and higher cooldowns on breackstun and healing will help a solo roamer against a group of 2-4 players.

Larger group are made by profession that usually doesn't have high mobility and high evade, the only problem with current meta are mounts that allow 50 players squad to move around as fast as a thief.Lower evade, lower mobility, less breakstun: again tell me how this will help outnumbered fights. All these changes only help noob players: less damage, then less you will pay for your mistakes, that's the only true.Again:1) higher cooldowns = less keys you have to press..2) lower damage = less attacks you have to dodge.3) More initiative cost (for thieves) = less skill diversity.. you will only spam THE skill that makes damage.All these mean less skills needed to play.

Player's Skills made fights last longer, a fight that last for 20 minutes cause nobody is able to kill the opponent is neither fun: this already happens today in some fights.. with this patch it will be the norm.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

@cobbah.3102 said:

@Fish.2769 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Could be that roamer need actual skill now instead of playing cheese to win.

Puts down cheeseboard

Ahem, what?

I love double cream Brie cheese

? some cheese it ok