Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Vicious Expression vs. Cheap Boons


EzienZauber.2576

Recommended Posts

Vicious Expression (NEW): You and your illusions deal increased damage to foes without boons. Disabling a foe removes 2 boons in PvE, and 1 boon in PvP and WvW.

The synergy of the updated Domination traits are good but in instances (PvP/WvW) where the team has a Firebrand, Guardian, Boon Mesmer (which is unlikely but possible), Herald - classes that have cheap boons available/can stack so many boons in <3s, this trait is useless. The Greatsword boon-strip skills in this update, phantasms, null field, and arcane thievery will probably be enough but will cost a lot of skill slots or because they're a 'ramp-up' or casts/removes boons slow - not be enough to catch players have 0 boons especially against FB Mantras, Chaos Mesmer, Herald Upkeep, Guardian Shouts.

However, I do think that this trait could be viable in "ganking" situations which Mesmers, even before the update, can do; or with corruption scourge/reapers. PvE-wise this is a great increase for Mesmer damage and possibly some viability against Fractals' Vengeance/No Pain No Gain + Chronomancer shatters are still clunky and there seems to be no updates on that, I guess this damage increase could work shrug.

Let me know what you think!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This trait couldve been wonderful if null field was more potent.In my opinion mesmer direly needs a glamour trait and a buff on glamours to fight against boons. Otherwise one shot combo vs unaware targets will its only choice for power builds.

Changes are not that bad as I always hated one shotting in competitive modes. But I wonder what would the result be for mesmer as it's unique properties are somewhat lessened. Giving portal to thief was actually an insult for mesmers in my opinion.

If we return to the original question it is not easy to find a target without boons as the passive abilities give at least one boon in most situations. And the mind stab boon removal is gone it seems. So it might be useful in pve but might not be that powerful in wvw if you do not have a specific group that aims for boon removal.

But removing a boon after a disable can also mran that one shot, or at least heavy burst start might be valid. Still it seems really lackluster to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"EzienZauber.2576" said:Vicious Expression (NEW): You and your illusions deal increased damage to foes without boons. Disabling a foe removes 2 boons in PvE, and 1 boon in PvP and WvW.

The synergy of the updated Domination traits are good but in instances (PvP/WvW) where the team has a Firebrand, Guardian, Boon Mesmer (which is unlikely but possible), Herald - classes that have cheap boons available/can stack so many boons in <3s, this trait is useless. The Greatsword boon-strip skills in this update, phantasms, null field, and arcane thievery will probably be enough but will cost a lot of skill slots or because they're a 'ramp-up' or casts/removes boons slow - not be enough to catch players have 0 boons especially against FB Mantras, Chaos Mesmer, Herald Upkeep, Guardian Shouts.

However, I do think that this trait could be viable in "ganking" situations which Mesmers, even before the update, can do; or with corruption scourge/reapers. PvE-wise this is a great increase for Mesmer damage and possibly some viability against Fractals' Vengeance/No Pain No Gain + Chronomancer shatters are still clunky and there seems to be no updates on that, I guess this damage increase could work shrug.

Let me know what you think!

But now you have to choose between the flat 15% of our Empowered Illusions, the new Bountiful Blades and this Vicious Expression trait. Before the second berserker added damage while you also had Empowered Illusions. At least, Mirage seems to leave the shave in PvE but, at the end, Chonomancer is clunky in all games modes, Mirage now with a single dodge in PvP/WvW, the lose of the stunbreak, etc, is another dead specialization for us. So all in all, we lose. A return to play core mesmer as consolation? There are more interesting professions and specializations out there to consider that. Some of the changes for other professions are really interesting. Our changes are meh. The only consolation that I have left is not to lose the Mirage in PvE, although surely now I will play more often other professions in PvE after the next balance patch. And well, no more mesmer in PvP/WvW for me as i play Mirage and i refuse to play it with a single dodge, Chronomancer is clunky and for old core mesmer there are better and more funny alternatives. Chaos, interrupts, etc, were also nerfed. It seems that core mesmer and portal bot is what remains, plus the PvE Mirage. That's all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dunno if people realize that CS currently take a hudge part in the "one shot combo".Have you try to land a core burst without stunt the target thanks to f3 ?Mean that post patch, with less damage and no CS, I can't imagine a situation where you will kill someone in 2 wave of burst on 12 sec CD.IMO the only viable spec will be a condi core with again passive gameplay when I read the patch note...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:damage against boonless foes is stupid, if they want to make it usefull make it deal10% increased damage, reduced by 1% for every boon on the foe. then having and removing boons matter.

lol 10% sounds useless

But i agree trait will be useless unless it's like +100%

I bet its gonna be some useless shit like 10% :Dand if its going to be good it wont be good in pvp ( everyone and their mother has perma at least 1 boon )if the damage is good it will be used as extra % dmg to 1shot people with LOL.

EDITif 10% isnt good enuf you could make it 20% and reduced by 2% for every boon on someone ( could be too good for 1shoting )or even better! every time you remove boon gain 2% damage bonus that stacks for 20s.if you keep removing boons you will keep 8-16% dmg bonus.but if people keep doding key skills you dont get to remove boons and you dont get damage bonus. but hey its mesmer.lets give them another shitty version of other basic trait other class has :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

PvE-wise, this trait is meant to compensate all the GS nerfs they just pulled off (to make it more ‘consistent’), and it is likely that GS dps will stay almost the same. It does buff the the weaker variant (domi focus) however, but pChrono’s max dps bench is unlikely to change drastically.

Without a decent amount of slow uptime in fracs to benefit from Danger Time, pChrono simply deals low tier dps in this content, and would be majorly undesirable/unnecessary even if it has an abundance of boonstrip capabilities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:damage against boonless foes is stupid, if they want to make it usefull make it deal10% increased damage, reduced by 1% for every boon on the foe. then having and removing boons matter.

lol 10% sounds useless

But i agree trait will be useless unless it's like +100%

I bet its gonna be some useless kitten like 10% :Dand if its going to be good it wont be good in pvp ( everyone and their mother has perma at least 1 boon )if the damage is good it will be used as extra % dmg to 1shot people with LOL.

EDITif 10% isnt good enuf you could make it 20% and reduced by 2% for every boon on someone ( could be too good for 1shoting )or even better! every time you remove boon gain 2% damage bonus that stacks for 20s.if you keep removing boons you will keep 8-16% dmg bonus.but if people keep doding key skills you dont get to remove boons and you dont get damage bonus. but hey its mesmer.lets give them another kitten version of other basic trait other class has :D

Damage buff when you remove boons sounds like an interesting idea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Stavros.8249" said:Big buff for focus power chronomancer. Domi is going to be better than illusions. I am guessing 20% increase since it's grandmaster tier, like thief and necro.

it could be good pve change, enemies dont have boons after all.but keep in mind that we lose 1 berserker or we lose 15% illusion damage for it. ( if on GS )wouldnt be suprised if their " big GS buff change " made gs weaker in pve then focus. would that be hilarious? xd

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:but keep in mind that we lose 1 berserker or we lose 15% illusion damage for it. ( if on GS )wouldnt be suprised if their " big GS buff change " made gs weaker in pve then focus. would that be hilarious? xd

Just to say... GS don't only lose a trait, but also:

  • Cripple on all (2-5) attacks;
  • about 30% damage on skill 2 but CD is reduced by 40% (1vs1 the additional bounces of Bountiful Blades are only useful for vulnerability and might, as the last hit damage will be only 10% of the 1st hit: 100->self->70->self->40->self->10);
  • at least 30% damage on skill 4, we don't only lose a trait but the initial projectile is no longer a boomerang (will hit only once).
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@hash.8462 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:but keep in mind that we lose 1 berserker or we lose 15% illusion damage for it. ( if on GS )wouldnt be suprised if their " big GS buff change " made gs weaker in pve then focus. would that be hilarious? xd

Just to say... GS don't only lose a trait, but also:
  • Cripple on all (2-5) attacks;
  • CD reduction of skill 5;
  • about 30% damage on skill 2 but CD is reduced by 40% (1vs1 the additional bounces of Bountiful Blades are only useful for vulnerability and might, as the last hit damage will be only 10% of the 1st hit: 100->self->70->self->40->self->10);
  • at least 30% damage on skill 4, we don't only lose a trait but the initial projectile is no longer a boomerang (will hit only once).

it really depends how they program it.it could be100->self->0.72->self->0.52->self->0.38would be extra ¬¬15% damage that way ( for 1 ability ).problem is that currently chrono relies on gs4 as main damage source on GS, from waht I have seen its usually about 35% of my total damage, narfing this will be felt HARD.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 9 months later...

@alain.1659 said:This trait couldve been wonderful if null field was more potent.In my opinion mesmer direly needs a glamour trait and a buff on glamours to fight against boons. Otherwise one shot combo vs unaware targets will its only choice for power builds.

Changes are not that bad as I always hated one shotting in competitive modes. But I wonder what would the result be for mesmer as it's unique properties are somewhat lessened. Giving portal to thief was actually an insult for mesmers in my opinion.

If we return to the original question it is not easy to find a target without boons as the passive abilities give at least one boon in most situations. And the mind stab boon removal is gone it seems. So it might be useful in pve but might not be that powerful in wvw if you do not have a specific group that aims for boon removal.

But removing a boon after a disable can also mran that one shot, or at least heavy burst start might be valid. Still it seems really lackluster to me.

about giving tp to thieves, i agree that was an insult indeed. mesmer just keep losing its uniqueness. dont get it wrong, my thief is happy to have it lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

about giving tp to thieves, i agree that was an insult indeed. mesmer just keep losing its uniqueness. dont get it wrong, my thief is happy to have it lol

Thieves never deserved it period and now that they do, this essentially proves that Anet doesn’t care about Mesmers anymore and would rather give all of our uniqueness to every other profession and leave us with mediocre crap. That leaves what little left of the Mesmer community to impatiently wait for a better E-Spec come next expansion and I’m afraid if we don’t get anything as good as the other two, Mesmer’s will be an extremely RARE sight to see in EVERY gamemode.

I blame poor balancing, designing and also the people who complained about our class way too much just because they can’t go up against a good Mesmer player...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Leonidrex.5649 said:damage against boonless foes is stupid, if they want to make it usefull make it deal10% increased damage, reduced by 1% for every boon on the foe. then having and removing boons matter.

(This comment didn't age well.)Now it's clearly meant for PVE (where boons aren't plentiful generally) as a damage boost, but it is also taken in WvW for boon rips on CC (along with sword auto).

For a short time when Vicious Expression had 25% bonus in PVE it was hotfixed almost immediately.

@Tseison.4659 said:

about giving tp to thieves, i agree that was an insult indeed. mesmer just keep losing its uniqueness. dont get it wrong, my thief is happy to have it lol

Thieves never deserved it period and now that they do, this essentially proves that Anet doesn’t care about Mesmers anymore and would rather give all of our uniqueness to every other profession and leave us with mediocre kitten. That leaves what little left of the Mesmer community to impatiently wait for a better E-Spec come next expansion and I’m afraid if we don’t get anything as good as the other two, Mesmer’s will be an extremely RARE sight to see in EVERY gamemode.

I blame poor balancing, designing and also the people who complained about our class way too much just because they can’t go up against a good Mesmer player...Giving portal to thieves was a terrible idea due to their stealth uptime and evades.

What thieves needed in PVE was some damage bonuses on mediocre weapons because the initiative mechanic makes it such that cooldowns don't matter as much.

Mesmers aren't that bad in PVE (esp. in 10 man instanced content) or WVW (pretty much boon rips right now) but in PVP they are rarer for obvious reasons. The chrono shatter revert brought back more mesmers but they're still not that common in PVP/WVW.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...