Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Balance Patch Preview - WvW


Cal Cohen.2358

Recommended Posts

People need to take the time look at the coefficients on traits, skills and food to make the best maximized builds that fit their play styles and then it is on based on your skill in fights.

I played a few meta builds and 75% of them are really bad because it looks like they were just thrown together from quick reading in the trait lines thinking to yourself these words "Oooh this is cool and over powered" but in reality it does not do well if not performing what you want and to your type of play style.

By really taking the time and go through things looking at gear, stats, coefficients on traits, skills and food also using "MATH" to make the best maximized builds that fit their play styles.

With the balance patch it will force everyone to look at things differently and by doing what is said above will solve the most of your problems all together.

Do not fully rely on the meta's because you can always make it better for your play style.

It is only a game and it is meant for you to have fun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Arctisavange.7261 said:Long fights in 2017? Wait what, was i sleeping that year? Back in 2017 scourge F1 ability with a big kitten AoE fields corrupted boons and was spammed 24/7. Meaning any sort of melee pushes were practically impossible, unless you were 1 pushing every enemy.

First nine months of 2017 was still the HoT meta, and combat was actually in a decent place after spending 2016 trying to fix the mess balance patch June 23rd 2015 and HoT created. After that was PoF which reset the meta and much like HoT release, condi spam meta happened again with scourges.So I guess you were asleep most of that year? XD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@God.2708 said:

@God.2708 said:Most people here are looking at the patch through the current balance paradigm's lense and it is making their ability to judge the patch very cloudy.

...Instead of looking at the patch though the lenses of the remaining developers, which had no clue about how the game worked in the competitive parts of the game and never tested the truckload of changes that they will introduce suddenly, with no remorses...

CMC Has played in national GW2 PvP tournaments that you can find on youtube right now.

What have you done?

A professional football player does not necessarily know better than a referee.

I both agree and disagree with what you're saying because you do not need to be capable of high end game play to understand how to achieve it. Or, skill does not necessarily mean comprehension.

I'm prepared to give this patch a chance because I think toning things down is a healthy decision. I also think it may suck for a while but as has been stated in the OP, follow up patches will be made on a regular schedule and hopefully things are eventually brought in line. Everyone will just have to suffer through the rough parts for a while until ANet figures out the right numbers. Still, there are many questionable changes here that, knowing ANet and how they have handled things historically, are rightful to be concerned with even with the promise of subsequent patches.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used to run a power reaper in WvW. Then I learned how to run a condi scourge... then a healing scourge. After looking at the consolidated wiki entry and seeing the changes being made to Necros in general, it looks like it's being nerfed to hell and back. Now there's basically minimal boon corrupt/removal for the class. Sure there's still dmg output from stacking condis using other methods. But it means nothing if we cannot remove the Resistance boon fast enough that's buried within the other 5-10 boons on top of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@God.2708 said:

@God.2708 said:Most people here are looking at the patch through the current balance paradigm's lense and it is making their ability to judge the patch very cloudy.

...Instead of looking at the patch though the lenses of the remaining developers, which had no clue about how the game worked in the competitive parts of the game and never tested the truckload of changes that they will introduce suddenly, with no remorses...

CMC Has played in national GW2 PvP tournaments that you can find on youtube right now.

What have you done?

A professional football player does not necessarily know better than a referee.

I both agree and disagree with what you're saying because you do not need to be capable of high end game play to understand how to achieve it. Or, skill does not necessarily mean comprehension.

I'm prepared to give this patch a chance because I think toning things down is a healthy decision. I also think it may suck for a while but as has been stated in the OP, follow up patches will be made on a regular schedule and hopefully things are eventually brought in line. Everyone will just have to suffer through the rough parts for a while until ANet figures out the right numbers. Still, there are many questionable changes here that, knowing ANet and how they have handled things historically, are rightful to be concerned with even with the promise of subsequent patches.

That is a loser's logic. If you have some sort of physical handicap preventing you from achieving such that is one thing. But you don't get to high end play without understanding. Likewise if you actually legitimately understand high end game play there is little that should stop you from at least being competitive at such a stage.

Not to mention fairly irrelevant given the person I was replying to said 'developers, which had no clue about how the game worked in the competitive parts of the game' which is factually false given CmCs history and is probably coming from a player who in fact has no idea how the game works in the competitive parts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:

@"primatos.5413" said:Maybe .. wait til patch drops .. then try how this all is working out .. think .. give feedback ..

This is the same Anet once they do something they dont go back. You can only stop them before the fact and it has helped to give them feed back on the ideal of the update it self as they "fixed" things before the full out come of the patch. So just keeping your head down and hoping it will work out dose not work for GW2.

are you a smoothbrain? :)

"This patch is unusual in that it’s more about establishing a new paradigm than it is a regular balance update, and the result is a giant set of changes. Moving forward with competitive balance, we want to make smaller adjustments more often. The specific cadence for balance will always depend on our overall release schedule, but ideally it will be closer to every 4-6 weeks, while still having the opportunity to make minor tweaks outside of the regular balance update. The goal here is to have better flexibility to fix problems in a timely manner."

Anyone who doesnt see that wvw is totally power/utility crept is
**
It should be obvious to anyone who played since core... or just switched to spvp for a while, since even there the game was less power crept than in wvw. This balance update is a first step into the right direection. btw they nerfing condi output/burst also. If it turns out that there are builds that are completely broken they will be hotfixed.Dude how can you be so pessimistic.
Finally wvw gets some love it deserves.
kitten seriously I dont get it to all the wvwer kitten on this balance update. Do you hate yourselfs??

No ideal what that is nor do i care to know.

The patch new paradigm is to drop dmg effects with out dealing with def boons and def gear its not like they are making armor and hp changes at the same time they are making power and crits changes. If they are going though all of this for months and months then doing more then just a blanket update like this for the weaker effects of self stab could easly be updated differently. We are going to have weaker self stab then what a gurd can give out as support for all classes that is a massive changes for wvw. This makes the game less flexible to update as it treat skill numbers not effects as means of update. You can nerf a boon duration as much as you want but the effect of -33% dmg is a very powerful boon that only needs to be up for the burst and nothing more this is ture for all of the boons.

Every one in wvw is sick of not being able to kill classes because of lack of dmg in balance builds. It cuts any type of skill game play and makes the wvw game more passive then it already is. If any thing it going to make siege meta the thing if not even worst both for dps make up that will be lost and the means of counting it though support over time heal lost.

This is not content that wvw ppl want its a part way of balancing that will do nothing for the current passive meta because that has more to do with the way wvw is played by its goal. If it takes months and months to update blanket balance how would anet be able to update on the fly for your "hotfixed" meta that you suggest? You are saying anet is both unable to update skills to be balance in the time given and are able to blanace hotfixed to fix an meta problme that EVERY ONE pointing out to anet.

You must not be a wvw player or a new one as these things have happens and balance updates for the game time are so far and few in-between that you need to community to talk about it as anet dose not go back on there chose for an update till the next full on update. Anet dose not hotfix metas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This whole back and forth here is pointless and I don't really see why you guys are fighting with each other.

Personally yeah I guess I have to admit that I'm going to enjoy people having to think of their own builds for at least awhile, it might make things more enjoyable in turn. But at the same time I don't like the changes overall because they just seem poorly thought out and hit certain classes and specs far harder then the rest which will probably cause some issues with classes you'll see commonly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Blob play remains the order of the day, there are alternatives to that, I have played them, daily, just not here.If you're going to make such massive changes perhaps you should look at some other game mechanics in other games to encourage a more dynamic and active battlefield experience.In wvw the action of the fight is pin vs pin usually (barring roamers and duellers and gankers). You lose the pin due to a lag spike and you die. It's possible to have mass battles with many many individual battles taking place within it. Find ways to break up the blobs, I can think of a game i would love to see morphed partially into this one.Boons are toxic and mindless, bring in a manual block, counter strikes, interrupts, more slotted reflects that are personal and less group specific.Just some thoughts

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@God.2708 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@God.2708 said:

@God.2708 said:Most people here are looking at the patch through the current balance paradigm's lense and it is making their ability to judge the patch very cloudy.

...Instead of looking at the patch though the lenses of the remaining developers, which had no clue about how the game worked in the competitive parts of the game and never tested the truckload of changes that they will introduce suddenly, with no remorses...

CMC Has played in national GW2 PvP tournaments that you can find on youtube right now.

What have you done?

A professional football player does not necessarily know better than a referee.

I both agree and disagree with what you're saying because you do not need to be capable of high end game play to understand how to achieve it. Or, skill does not necessarily mean comprehension.

I'm prepared to give this patch a chance because I think toning things down is a healthy decision. I also think it may suck for a while but as has been stated in the OP, follow up patches will be made on a regular schedule and hopefully things are eventually brought in line. Everyone will just have to suffer through the rough parts for a while until ANet figures out the right numbers. Still, there are many questionable changes here that, knowing ANet and how they have handled things historically, are rightful to be concerned with even with the promise of subsequent patches.

That is a loser's logic. If you have some sort of physical handicap preventing you from achieving such that is one thing. But you don't get to high end play without understanding. Likewise if you actually legitimately understand high end game play there is little that should stop you from at least being competitive at such a stage.

Not to mention fairly irrelevant given the person I was replying to said 'developers, which had no clue about how the game worked in the competitive parts of the game' which is factually false given CmCs history and is probably coming from a player who in fact has no idea how the game works in the competitive parts.

Understanding how to rotate and fight things. Not how to properly balance. Maybe I was unclear, but that was what I meant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Xenash.1245 said:This whole back and forth here is pointless and I don't really see why you guys are fighting with each other.

Personally yeah I guess I have to admit that I'm going to enjoy people having to think of their own builds for at least awhile, it might make things more enjoyable in turn. But at the same time I don't like the changes overall because they just seem poorly thought out and hit certain classes and specs far harder then the rest which will probably cause some issues with classes you'll see commonly.

+1

I completely agree with you on that part.

-to be honest, i do blame Anet for this because within the few years; this is what they do to us without communicating with us during processing patch notes

They 'throw us in the 'lion's den' to process the patch notes alone, resulting in us arguing with each other instead of being honest with us and helping ease our frustrations

Don't you see how Anet play a role in this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if they going to reduce all classes damage to this new standard, that takes the assumption that every thing else is equal.

Elementalist has lowest HP and Armor in game, where is the balance here? what gains does this class see?

There is no balance in these notes.. not one little bit. There is just a game play change of a reduction in damage and healing.. no balance adjustment in the slightest.

Absolute garbage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Xenash.1245 said:This whole back and forth here is pointless and I don't really see why you guys are fighting with each other.

Personally yeah I guess I have to admit that I'm going to enjoy people having to think of their own builds for at least awhile, it might make things more enjoyable in turn. But at the same time I don't like the changes overall because they just seem poorly thought out and hit certain classes and specs far harder then the rest which will probably cause some issues with classes you'll see commonly.

@Xenash.1245 said:This whole back and forth here is pointless and I don't really see why you guys are fighting with each other.

Personally yeah I guess I have to admit that I'm going to enjoy people having to think of their own builds for at least awhile, it might make things more enjoyable in turn. But at the same time I don't like the changes overall because they just seem poorly thought out and hit certain classes and specs far harder then the rest which will probably cause some issues with classes you'll see commonly.

That the thing this update makes you less likely to see the odd ball builds in wvw as you will have to max your power dmg or healing to keep up OR you NEED to have a gurd or 2 in every group just to have enofe stab as they are nerfing number of targets for the support stab and nerfing every one self stab.

This update is the worst way to promote fun game play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My prediction not for this update but the one after is going to be another paradigm shift as they do not every to seem to have a real aim from update to update. I just image they will not use the phase "paradigm shift" and hope you forgot about the last big update. The moment they make less used skills have longer cd because of there ideal that holds there attention for this update after spending years making them more usable by dropping there cd (they are still not used) shows they have no real aim in the long run only short term doing things.

For this update every one going to push more into there best of class builds more power more healing power and every one will need a gurd or 2 per group as self stab is getting hit hard. Ppl are going to hate wvw more and more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Jski.6180 said:

@Xenash.1245 said:This whole back and forth here is pointless and I don't really see why you guys are fighting with each other.

Personally yeah I guess I have to admit that I'm going to enjoy people having to think of their own builds for at least awhile, it might make things more enjoyable in turn. But at the same time I don't like the changes overall because they just seem poorly thought out and hit certain classes and specs far harder then the rest which will probably cause some issues with classes you'll see commonly.

@Xenash.1245 said:This whole back and forth here is pointless and I don't really see why you guys are fighting with each other.

Personally yeah I guess I have to admit that I'm going to enjoy people having to think of their own builds for at least awhile, it might make things more enjoyable in turn. But at the same time I don't like the changes overall because they just seem poorly thought out and hit certain classes and specs far harder then the rest which will probably cause some issues with classes you'll see commonly.

That the thing this update makes you less likely to see the odd ball builds in wvw as you will have to max your power dmg or healing to keep up OR you NEED to have a gurd or 2 in every group just to have enofe stab as they are nerfing number of targets for the support stab and nerfing every one self stab.

This update is the worst way to promote fun game play.

Guard is already in every group... You must be new.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you don't want Spellbreakers to use Winds of Disenchantment then take it out of the blasted game, stop with the continual nerfs to it. As it stands it's of limited use because of the (terrible imo) decision to make it a channelled skill but after this I just can't see it being used in large fights.

Also Condi was already incredibly strong in large WvW fights, I am not convinced that these changes won't see an increase in condi builds across the board.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@SloRules.3560 said:

@Xenash.1245 said:This whole back and forth here is pointless and I don't really see why you guys are fighting with each other.

Personally yeah I guess I have to admit that I'm going to enjoy people having to think of their own builds for at least awhile, it might make things more enjoyable in turn. But at the same time I don't like the changes overall because they just seem poorly thought out and hit certain classes and specs far harder then the rest which will probably cause some issues with classes you'll see commonly.

@Xenash.1245 said:This whole back and forth here is pointless and I don't really see why you guys are fighting with each other.

Personally yeah I guess I have to admit that I'm going to enjoy people having to think of their own builds for at least awhile, it might make things more enjoyable in turn. But at the same time I don't like the changes overall because they just seem poorly thought out and hit certain classes and specs far harder then the rest which will probably cause some issues with classes you'll see commonly.

That the thing this update makes you less likely to see the odd ball builds in wvw as you will have to max your power dmg or healing to keep up OR you NEED to have a gurd or 2 in every group just to have enofe stab as they are nerfing number of targets for the support stab and nerfing every one self stab.

This update is the worst way to promote fun game play.

Guard is already in every group... You must be new.

@Xenash.1245 said:This whole back and forth here is pointless and I don't really see why you guys are fighting with each other.

Personally yeah I guess I have to admit that I'm going to enjoy people having to think of their own builds for at least awhile, it might make things more enjoyable in turn. But at the same time I don't like the changes overall because they just seem poorly thought out and hit certain classes and specs far harder then the rest which will probably cause some issues with classes you'll see commonly.

@Xenash.1245 said:This whole back and forth here is pointless and I don't really see why you guys are fighting with each other.

Personally yeah I guess I have to admit that I'm going to enjoy people having to think of their own builds for at least awhile, it might make things more enjoyable in turn. But at the same time I don't like the changes overall because they just seem poorly thought out and hit certain classes and specs far harder then the rest which will probably cause some issues with classes you'll see commonly.

That the thing this update makes you less likely to see the odd ball builds in wvw as you will have to max your power dmg or healing to keep up OR you NEED to have a gurd or 2 in every group just to have enofe stab as they are nerfing number of targets for the support stab and nerfing every one self stab.

This update is the worst way to promote fun game play.

Guard is already in every group... You must be new.

But you will need more as they no longer hit 10 targets and lack as much support stab AND classes who had some version of self stab is only getting nerfed by being made into 60 sec cd. We can also point out that blocks and non healing support will become much stronger something witch guard has and other support classes do not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bring on this new era, I say!

For once, I'm going to against the grain here and look forward to what's coming instead of being jaded like a good number of people are here. Powercreep is directly being addressed both in terms of damage and defensive output right before our eyes and people are still not satisfied. I and many others have asked for this to be addressed for YEARS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OVERALL INPUT:

_**After playing this game for 7 years and maining necro for those 7 years with over 10k games in Spvp, and after being involved in the pvp community and attending 2 of the WTS lans I can say:

These are good changes for Spvp balance as a start.

It's hard to gauge how things will turn out because this time around - so many variables are being changed which is why nobody relevant in the spvp community has posted this thread yet.Most of their feedback will be on their streams to their viewers. So if you really want the inside scoop on their educated guesses go watch Chaith, Naru, Sindrener, Angels, Vallun, Grimjack, and Shorts, and don't be surprised if Helseth logs in to do a review.

Additionally, What most of us would like to see next:Now that damage, survivability, and sustain have been nerfed across the board - the devs need to start changing how skills, traits, and all that work (functionality).

Instead of responding with useless and lazy damage, survivability, and sustain nerfs, they need to change functionality of things that need to be buffed, or nerfed to add depth to the game, provide fun/entertaining/in depth counterplay opportunity, and change the way the conquest is currently being played for the better.

This is all a good start though. We are raising the skill ceiling on the game once again, and getting rid of cheese mode builds that require low skill, but have a big affect on matches such as condi mirage, s/p thief, and symbols firebrand. **_

-Contraversy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@JTGuevara.9018 said:Bring on this new era, I say!

For once, I'm going to against the grain here and look forward to what's coming instead of being jaded like a good number of people are here. Powercreep is directly being addressed both in terms of damage and defensive output right before our eyes and people are still not satisfied. I and many others have asked for this to be addressed for YEARS.

I can be jaded but still look forward to what the future may bring.

It's in the same vein of me saying a cool mount was added into wvw, but also heavily disagreed with a mount in general being added to the gamemode.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@VALARMORGHULIS.9173 said:So if you really want the inside scoop on their educated guesses go watch Chaith, Naru, Sindrener, Angels, Vallun, Grimjack, and Shorts, and don't be surprised if Helseth logs in to do a review.Why would we ever want input from those guys, we're already getting all the detailed reviews on how the patch will exactly play by the pros on these forums.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...