New E-Specs in 2020? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

New E-Specs in 2020?

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  • Amaranthe.3578Amaranthe.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I dont really believe Anet would stoop that low either.

    Just look at the extend of the template loadout monetization.
    I wouldn't be surprised of they sell us the especs at a rate of 2000 gems per spec.

    Would it be that bad if they sell the e-specs for lets say 15 or 20 bucks if they give you the rest of the expac for free if you login? I don't see the problem

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2020

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I dont really believe Anet would stoop that low either.

    Just look at the extend of the template loadout monetization.
    I wouldn't be surprised of they sell us the especs at a rate of 2000 gems per spec.

    Would it be that bad if they sell the e-specs for lets say 15 or 20 bucks if they give you the rest of the expac for free if you login? I don't see the problem

    I think it would be a massive problem yes. It could even be the straw that breaks the game population. Monetising the templates seemed pretty reasonable to me (and people were asking for just that). The backlash however was.....significant. This would be on a whole new scale of damage

    Paying for elites is a step too far. It opens up a precedent to start selling off bits of content to those with the cash and that is very much not the Anet way.

    Elites are traitlines. If it's an expac, then they come as a feature of it. If included with the Saga, then its included for free. There is no reason for them to do it beyond pure greed and a disrespect to the playerbase. I think many things about Anet, but I am confident such a decision would never be taken or realistically considered

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I dont really believe Anet would stoop that low either.

    Just look at the extend of the template loadout monetization.
    I wouldn't be surprised of they sell us the especs at a rate of 2000 gems per spec.

    Would it be that bad if they sell the e-specs for lets say 15 or 20 bucks if they give you the rest of the expac for free if you login? I don't see the problem

    I think it would be a massive problem yes. It could even be the straw that breaks the game population. Monetising the templates seemed pretty reasonable to me (and people were asking for just that). The backlash however was.....significant. This would be on a whole new scale of damage

    Paying for elites is a step too far. It opens up a precedent to start selling off bits of content to those with the cash and that is very much not the Anet way.

    Elites are traitlines. If it's an expac, then they come as a feature of it. If included with the Saga, then its included for free. There is no reason for them to do it beyond pure greed and a disrespect to the playerbase. I think many things about Anet, but I am confident such a decision would never be taken or realistically considered

    Hopefully. With the growing emphasis on the gemstore lately I can't completely put it out of my mind of them to try to pull something like that.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    The amount of time needed to create and balance 9 new elite specs is far too big for them to be released outside of an expansion.

    It's far too big a task to be done as living world.. and even if it was done and Anet decided to release another expansion in the future people would quickly start to ask questions like.. why should we have to pay for this expansion when all the features in it we've been getting for free over the last few years.

    The biggest problem with promiting messages like.. Expansion like content.
    Give people things for free and they will expect you to continue to do so.

    I wouldn't mind paying for the e-specs separately if the LW gives expac-level maps and features.

    The amount of pay to win rage that would cause though xD

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I dont really believe Anet would stoop that low either.

    Just look at the extend of the template loadout monetization.
    I wouldn't be surprised of they sell us the especs at a rate of 2000 gems per spec.

    Would it be that bad if they sell the e-specs for lets say 15 or 20 bucks if they give you the rest of the expac for free if you login? I don't see the problem

    I think it would be a massive problem yes. It could even be the straw that breaks the game population. Monetising the templates seemed pretty reasonable to me (and people were asking for just that). The backlash however was.....significant. This would be on a whole new scale of damage

    Paying for elites is a step too far. It opens up a precedent to start selling off bits of content to those with the cash and that is very much not the Anet way.

    Elites are traitlines. If it's an expac, then they come as a feature of it. If included with the Saga, then its included for free. There is no reason for them to do it beyond pure greed and a disrespect to the playerbase. I think many things about Anet, but I am confident such a decision would never be taken or realistically considered

    Hopefully. With the growing emphasis on the gemstore lately I can't completely put it out of my mind of them to try to pull something like that.

    The concern is understandable I agree. They have been on a poor roll of decisions as well so so I can understand any cynicism right now

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Amaranthe.3578Amaranthe.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    The amount of time needed to create and balance 9 new elite specs is far too big for them to be released outside of an expansion.

    It's far too big a task to be done as living world.. and even if it was done and Anet decided to release another expansion in the future people would quickly start to ask questions like.. why should we have to pay for this expansion when all the features in it we've been getting for free over the last few years.

    The biggest problem with promiting messages like.. Expansion like content.
    Give people things for free and they will expect you to continue to do so.

    I wouldn't mind paying for the e-specs separately if the LW gives expac-level maps and features.

    The amount of pay to win rage that would cause though xD

    Since when paid DLC is p2w?

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    The amount of time needed to create and balance 9 new elite specs is far too big for them to be released outside of an expansion.

    It's far too big a task to be done as living world.. and even if it was done and Anet decided to release another expansion in the future people would quickly start to ask questions like.. why should we have to pay for this expansion when all the features in it we've been getting for free over the last few years.

    The biggest problem with promiting messages like.. Expansion like content.
    Give people things for free and they will expect you to continue to do so.

    I wouldn't mind paying for the e-specs separately if the LW gives expac-level maps and features.

    The amount of pay to win rage that would cause though xD

    Since when paid DLC is p2w?

    If the content behind the DLC gives players an advantage (e.g. a new e-spec that is strong than any of the other specs)

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Amaranthe.3578Amaranthe.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2020

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I dont really believe Anet would stoop that low either.

    Just look at the extend of the template loadout monetization.
    I wouldn't be surprised of they sell us the especs at a rate of 2000 gems per spec.

    Would it be that bad if they sell the e-specs for lets say 15 or 20 bucks if they give you the rest of the expac for free if you login? I don't see the problem

    I think it would be a massive problem yes. It could even be the straw that breaks the game population. Monetising the templates seemed pretty reasonable to me (and people were asking for just that). The backlash however was.....significant. This would be on a whole new scale of damage

    Paying for elites is a step too far. It opens up a precedent to start selling off bits of content to those with the cash and that is very much not the Anet way.

    Elites are traitlines. If it's an expac, then they come as a feature of it. If included with the Saga, then its included for free. There is no reason for them to do it beyond pure greed and a disrespect to the playerbase. I think many things about Anet, but I am confident such a decision would never be taken or realistically considered

    I really don't see the problem. Instead of paying for the expac, you get expac-level maps and features for free and just pay for the e-specs since they are basically the core of an expac because they apply to all game modes : pve/pvp/wvwvw
    I mean, lets say youre a spvp player...why are you buying the expac? for the especs.
    If youre a wvwvw player....same thing. Your reasoning just seems flawed to me.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    The amount of time needed to create and balance 9 new elite specs is far too big for them to be released outside of an expansion.

    It's far too big a task to be done as living world.. and even if it was done and Anet decided to release another expansion in the future people would quickly start to ask questions like.. why should we have to pay for this expansion when all the features in it we've been getting for free over the last few years.

    The biggest problem with promiting messages like.. Expansion like content.
    Give people things for free and they will expect you to continue to do so.

    I wouldn't mind paying for the e-specs separately if the LW gives expac-level maps and features.

    The amount of pay to win rage that would cause though xD

    Since when paid DLC is p2w?

    It's not necs that it would be p2w, there would be a huge cry about it nonetheless. Anet have admitted in the past that elites have steadily caused a power creep over the years. It is a natural assumption therefore that a new elite would cause a new power creep. And since you exclusively are purchasing that power, that argument would be made (loudly).

    I'm not sure I agree with the reasoning, but I can understand the complaint

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Amaranthe.3578Amaranthe.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    The amount of time needed to create and balance 9 new elite specs is far too big for them to be released outside of an expansion.

    It's far too big a task to be done as living world.. and even if it was done and Anet decided to release another expansion in the future people would quickly start to ask questions like.. why should we have to pay for this expansion when all the features in it we've been getting for free over the last few years.

    The biggest problem with promiting messages like.. Expansion like content.
    Give people things for free and they will expect you to continue to do so.

    I wouldn't mind paying for the e-specs separately if the LW gives expac-level maps and features.

    The amount of pay to win rage that would cause though xD

    Since when paid DLC is p2w?

    It's not necs that it would be p2w, there would be a huge cry about it nonetheless. Anet have admitted in the past that elites have steadily caused a power creep over the years. It is a natural assumption therefore that a new elite would cause a new power creep. And since you exclusively are purchasing that power, that argument would be made (loudly).

    I'm not sure I agree with the reasoning, but I can understand the complaint

    Stupid arguements shouldn't be the reason for a desicion. Like I said, if youre mainly a spvp/wvwvw player you're buying the expac for the especs ANYWAYS.
    So, instead of playing 40 bucks or so for a huge expac you get free expac level content and just pay a bit for the especs. Anyone who would actually argue against that shouldn't be taken seriously.

  • Amaranthe.3578Amaranthe.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    The amount of time needed to create and balance 9 new elite specs is far too big for them to be released outside of an expansion.

    It's far too big a task to be done as living world.. and even if it was done and Anet decided to release another expansion in the future people would quickly start to ask questions like.. why should we have to pay for this expansion when all the features in it we've been getting for free over the last few years.

    The biggest problem with promiting messages like.. Expansion like content.
    Give people things for free and they will expect you to continue to do so.

    I wouldn't mind paying for the e-specs separately if the LW gives expac-level maps and features.

    The amount of pay to win rage that would cause though xD

    Since when paid DLC is p2w?

    If the content behind the DLC gives players an advantage (e.g. a new e-spec that is strong than any of the other specs)

    So the game is p2w anyways by that idiotic definition. Without the expacs you can't really compete in pvp/wvwvw.
    DLC content is absolutely not p2w. Just like expacs arent p2w. The free game is a trial version.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I dont really believe Anet would stoop that low either.

    Just look at the extend of the template loadout monetization.
    I wouldn't be surprised of they sell us the especs at a rate of 2000 gems per spec.

    Would it be that bad if they sell the e-specs for lets say 15 or 20 bucks if they give you the rest of the expac for free if you login? I don't see the problem

    I think it would be a massive problem yes. It could even be the straw that breaks the game population. Monetising the templates seemed pretty reasonable to me (and people were asking for just that). The backlash however was.....significant. This would be on a whole new scale of damage

    Paying for elites is a step too far. It opens up a precedent to start selling off bits of content to those with the cash and that is very much not the Anet way.

    Elites are traitlines. If it's an expac, then they come as a feature of it. If included with the Saga, then its included for free. There is no reason for them to do it beyond pure greed and a disrespect to the playerbase. I think many things about Anet, but I am confident such a decision would never be taken or realistically considered

    I really don't see the problem. Instead of paying for the expac, you get expac-level maps and features for free and just pay for the e-specs since they are basically the core of an expac because they apply to all game modes : pve/pvp/wvwvw

    I'm not really sure how to explain it then. If you don't see it as a issue, then perhaps that's just a conflict between points of view. For me, it would be a ridiculously idiotic move for them to split chunks of content up into paid and unpaid, instead of the (relative) neatness it is now. It would be confusing, messy and achieve precisely nothing positive whatsoever.

    You either buy a package of content or you get free updates like now. I am not a fan of this micro dlc charging nonsense that is all the rage right now in the industry which irritating swathes of gamers. If it is already made content, it gets packaged with the rest of it not cut out and charged separately

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Amaranthe.3578Amaranthe.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I dont really believe Anet would stoop that low either.

    Just look at the extend of the template loadout monetization.
    I wouldn't be surprised of they sell us the especs at a rate of 2000 gems per spec.

    Would it be that bad if they sell the e-specs for lets say 15 or 20 bucks if they give you the rest of the expac for free if you login? I don't see the problem

    I think it would be a massive problem yes. It could even be the straw that breaks the game population. Monetising the templates seemed pretty reasonable to me (and people were asking for just that). The backlash however was.....significant. This would be on a whole new scale of damage

    Paying for elites is a step too far. It opens up a precedent to start selling off bits of content to those with the cash and that is very much not the Anet way.

    Elites are traitlines. If it's an expac, then they come as a feature of it. If included with the Saga, then its included for free. There is no reason for them to do it beyond pure greed and a disrespect to the playerbase. I think many things about Anet, but I am confident such a decision would never be taken or realistically considered

    I really don't see the problem. Instead of paying for the expac, you get expac-level maps and features for free and just pay for the e-specs since they are basically the core of an expac because they apply to all game modes : pve/pvp/wvwvw

    I'm not really sure how to explain it then. If you don't see it as a issue, then perhaps that's just a conflict between points of view. For me, it would be a ridiculously idiotic move for them to split chunks of content up into paid and unpaid, instead of the (relative) neatness it is now. It would be confusing, messy and achieve precisely nothing positive whatsoever.

    You either buy a package of content or you get free updates like now. I am not a fan of this micro dlc charging nonsense that is all the rage right now in the industry which irritating swathes of gamers. If it is already made content, it gets packaged with the rest of it not cut out and charged separately

    If you end up paying the same amount I don't care how you charge me. Knowing ANet js extremely anti-p2w they can make it work. Besides, they are a tiny studio, not Blizzard. Perhaps releasing it in chunks will make it easier for them to handle.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    The amount of time needed to create and balance 9 new elite specs is far too big for them to be released outside of an expansion.

    It's far too big a task to be done as living world.. and even if it was done and Anet decided to release another expansion in the future people would quickly start to ask questions like.. why should we have to pay for this expansion when all the features in it we've been getting for free over the last few years.

    The biggest problem with promiting messages like.. Expansion like content.
    Give people things for free and they will expect you to continue to do so.

    I wouldn't mind paying for the e-specs separately if the LW gives expac-level maps and features.

    The amount of pay to win rage that would cause though xD

    Since when paid DLC is p2w?

    It's not necs that it would be p2w, there would be a huge cry about it nonetheless. Anet have admitted in the past that elites have steadily caused a power creep over the years. It is a natural assumption therefore that a new elite would cause a new power creep. And since you exclusively are purchasing that power, that argument would be made (loudly).

    I'm not sure I agree with the reasoning, but I can understand the complaint

    Stupid arguements shouldn't be the reason for a desicion. Like I said, if youre mainly a spvp/wvwvw player you're buying the expac for the especs ANYWAYS.
    So, instead of playing 40 bucks or so for a huge expac you get free expac level content and just pay a bit for the especs. Anyone who would actually argue against that shouldn't be taken seriously.

    Yeah but having specs in expansions is a big difference to just having the specs as a monitized feature.. like on the gemstore for example.
    Some argue the expansions are pay to win because of elite specs or in other games where they increase level caps or gear progression etc but that kind of thing is expected in expansions and would cause more outrage if you were paying for an expansion that didnt add some new way to expand/improve your character.
    Expansions expand the pre exisrting game.. pretty much why they're called expansions.

    Putting specs on the gemstore would be much like putting a new tier of gear with higher stats than ascended exclusively on the gemstore.. people would be right to call foul on that and claim pay to win.. specially if that gear were usable in competitive modes.

  • Amaranthe.3578Amaranthe.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2020

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    The amount of time needed to create and balance 9 new elite specs is far too big for them to be released outside of an expansion.

    It's far too big a task to be done as living world.. and even if it was done and Anet decided to release another expansion in the future people would quickly start to ask questions like.. why should we have to pay for this expansion when all the features in it we've been getting for free over the last few years.

    The biggest problem with promiting messages like.. Expansion like content.
    Give people things for free and they will expect you to continue to do so.

    I wouldn't mind paying for the e-specs separately if the LW gives expac-level maps and features.

    The amount of pay to win rage that would cause though xD

    Since when paid DLC is p2w?

    It's not necs that it would be p2w, there would be a huge cry about it nonetheless. Anet have admitted in the past that elites have steadily caused a power creep over the years. It is a natural assumption therefore that a new elite would cause a new power creep. And since you exclusively are purchasing that power, that argument would be made (loudly).

    I'm not sure I agree with the reasoning, but I can understand the complaint

    Stupid arguements shouldn't be the reason for a desicion. Like I said, if youre mainly a spvp/wvwvw player you're buying the expac for the especs ANYWAYS.
    So, instead of playing 40 bucks or so for a huge expac you get free expac level content and just pay a bit for the especs. Anyone who would actually argue against that shouldn't be taken seriously.

    Yeah but having specs in expansions is a big difference to just having the specs as a monitized feature.. like on the gemstore for example.
    Some argue the expansions are pay to win because of elite specs or in other games where they increase level caps or gear progression etc but that kind of thing is expected in expansions and would cause more outrage if you were paying for an expansion that didnt add some new way to expand/improve your character.
    Expansions expand the pre exisrting game.. pretty much why they're called expansions.

    Putting specs on the gemstore would be much like putting a new tier of gear with higher stats than ascended exclusively on the gemstore.. people would be right to call foul on that and claim pay to win.. specially if that gear were usable in competitive modes.

    It wouldn't be on the gem store. It would be a separate DLC. The game IS buy to play after all. DLC is the backbone of that model. For crying out loud, if you don't login during a certain period you have to buy LW episodes for a small fee right? They are also DLC.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2020

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    The amount of time needed to create and balance 9 new elite specs is far too big for them to be released outside of an expansion.

    It's far too big a task to be done as living world.. and even if it was done and Anet decided to release another expansion in the future people would quickly start to ask questions like.. why should we have to pay for this expansion when all the features in it we've been getting for free over the last few years.

    The biggest problem with promiting messages like.. Expansion like content.
    Give people things for free and they will expect you to continue to do so.

    I wouldn't mind paying for the e-specs separately if the LW gives expac-level maps and features.

    The amount of pay to win rage that would cause though xD

    Since when paid DLC is p2w?

    It's not necs that it would be p2w, there would be a huge cry about it nonetheless. Anet have admitted in the past that elites have steadily caused a power creep over the years. It is a natural assumption therefore that a new elite would cause a new power creep. And since you exclusively are purchasing that power, that argument would be made (loudly).

    I'm not sure I agree with the reasoning, but I can understand the complaint

    Stupid arguements shouldn't be the reason for a desicion. Like I said, if youre mainly a spvp/wvwvw player you're buying the expac for the especs ANYWAYS.
    So, instead of playing 40 bucks or so for a huge expac you get free expac level content and just pay a bit for the especs. Anyone who would actually argue against that shouldn't be taken seriously.

    Yeah but having specs in expansions is a big difference to just having the specs as a monitized feature.. like on the gemstore for example.
    Some argue the expansions are pay to win because of elite specs or in other games where they increase level caps or gear progression etc but that kind of thing is expected in expansions and would cause more outrage if you were paying for an expansion that didnt add some new way to expand/improve your character.
    Expansions expand the pre exisrting game.. pretty much why they're called expansions.

    Putting specs on the gemstore would be much like putting a new tier of gear with higher stats than ascended exclusively on the gemstore.. people would be right to call foul on that and claim pay to win.. specially if that gear were usable in competitive modes.

    It wouldn't be on the gem store. It would be a separate DLC. The game IS buy to play after all. DLC is the backbone of that model. For crying out loud, if you don't login during a certain period you have to buy LW episodes for a small fee right? They are also DLC.

    Well you buy living world on the gemstore :P

    In general though I don't particularly like that concept myself, I find that for newer or players returning from long breaks that catchup price can be pretty heavy and very off putting.. and the longer you're put off on coming back the bigger that price tag gets.
    The only plus side being that you can play the game and earn the gold to buy gems to buy the episodes but it's still a pretty poor model imo.

    After all if you've never heard of Gw2 and come into the game now, decide you love it and want to catch up it's pretty disheartening looking at all the money you need spend to do it.. and more so when you learn that most other players only had to pay for a couple expansions as they got all the living world free just by playing.
    Can make someone feel like they're being screwed over.. or being punished for being late to the party, I've had friends say as much as their main reason for not wanting to invest in Gw2.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2020

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    The amount of time needed to create and balance 9 new elite specs is far too big for them to be released outside of an expansion.

    It's far too big a task to be done as living world.. and even if it was done and Anet decided to release another expansion in the future people would quickly start to ask questions like.. why should we have to pay for this expansion when all the features in it we've been getting for free over the last few years.

    The biggest problem with promiting messages like.. Expansion like content.
    Give people things for free and they will expect you to continue to do so.

    I wouldn't mind paying for the e-specs separately if the LW gives expac-level maps and features.

    The amount of pay to win rage that would cause though xD

    Since when paid DLC is p2w?

    It's not necs that it would be p2w, there would be a huge cry about it nonetheless. Anet have admitted in the past that elites have steadily caused a power creep over the years. It is a natural assumption therefore that a new elite would cause a new power creep. And since you exclusively are purchasing that power, that argument would be made (loudly).

    I'm not sure I agree with the reasoning, but I can understand the complaint

    Stupid arguements shouldn't be the reason for a desicion. Like I said, if youre mainly a spvp/wvwvw player you're buying the expac for the especs ANYWAYS.
    So, instead of playing 40 bucks or so for a huge expac you get free expac level content and just pay a bit for the especs. Anyone who would actually argue against that shouldn't be taken seriously.

    Yeah but having specs in expansions is a big difference to just having the specs as a monitized feature.. like on the gemstore for example.
    Some argue the expansions are pay to win because of elite specs or in other games where they increase level caps or gear progression etc but that kind of thing is expected in expansions and would cause more outrage if you were paying for an expansion that didnt add some new way to expand/improve your character.
    Expansions expand the pre exisrting game.. pretty much why they're called expansions.

    Putting specs on the gemstore would be much like putting a new tier of gear with higher stats than ascended exclusively on the gemstore.. people would be right to call foul on that and claim pay to win.. specially if that gear were usable in competitive modes.

    It wouldn't be on the gem store. It would be a separate DLC. The game IS buy to play after all. DLC is the backbone of that model. For crying out loud, if you don't login during a certain period you have to buy LW episodes for a small fee right? They are also DLC.

    Right, but then you risk a double bubble scenario. It is confusing enough now for players that buying an expac still means buying more dlc on top of that. If you then ask new players to buy expacs, seasons and then tell them some of the content you used to get with that ( ie new elite classes) also needs purchasing...that is not a positive message to your future playerbase. So all you are doing is upsetting a significant section of players AND putting off new players.

    It's a messy, confusing and expensive strategy

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • MoriMoriMori.5349MoriMoriMori.5349 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2020

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    Can't calculate the odds but anet has made no hints that there will ever be any more especs. They said "expansion level content" but that in no way means "especs".

    What's more "expansion level" than e-specs?
    I think we just need another round of them. 3 especs for each class would be perfect

    Some actual content you can use to play a game? New huge and complex maps which are fun to explore, full of riddles and hidden places? New raids and fractals? A fresh ideas on how to re-use the old maps, fill them with some activities and events, in addition these boring old dynamic events? New game modes, especially for experienced players, which are currently locked out from most of OpenWorld as it's just boring for them to fight most of the mobs there? Further developing and refreshing PvP and WvW modes?

    Tons of stuff, actually. And the least useful of this stuff is new especs, which will only create more confusion and will break even this fragile semblance of balance we have now.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:
    Stupid arguements shouldn't be the reason for a desicion. Like I said, if youre mainly a spvp/wvwvw player you're buying the expac for the especs ANYWAYS.
    So, instead of playing 40 bucks or so for a huge expac you get free expac level content and just pay a bit for the especs. Anyone who would actually argue against that shouldn't be taken seriously.

    "A little"? Haven't you looked at build "templates" close enough? I bet that if they actually did monetize especs, every single espec would cost more than a whole expansion. Because that's their pricing model these days.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't really have any hope for this happening anytime soon, but it would be nice to change the gameplay up a bit with some new elite specs.

    Perhaps something Aurene is doing in the Eye of the North/Scrying Pool/Connection to the mists is a possible jumping off point for introducing new elite specs?

    Not likely, but one can dream!

    I think people were thinking, out of desperation, that the big balance changes they were implementing were eluding to class reworks to make room for new elite specs. But after reading the changes, the majority of them are just flat damage reductions across the board with about the same number or less of actual trait reworks/changes.

    The datamined icons I'm pretty sure were mostly for underwater weapons or something.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    The amount of time needed to create and balance 9 new elite specs is far too big for them to be released outside of an expansion.

    It's far too big a task to be done as living world.. and even if it was done and Anet decided to release another expansion in the future people would quickly start to ask questions like.. why should we have to pay for this expansion when all the features in it we've been getting for free over the last few years.

    The biggest problem with promiting messages like.. Expansion like content.
    Give people things for free and they will expect you to continue to do so.

    I wouldn't mind paying for the e-specs separately if the LW gives expac-level maps and features.

    The amount of pay to win rage that would cause though xD

    Since when paid DLC is p2w?

    It's not necs that it would be p2w, there would be a huge cry about it nonetheless. Anet have admitted in the past that elites have steadily caused a power creep over the years. It is a natural assumption therefore that a new elite would cause a new power creep. And since you exclusively are purchasing that power, that argument would be made (loudly).

    I'm not sure I agree with the reasoning, but I can understand the complaint

    Stupid arguements shouldn't be the reason for a desicion. Like I said, if youre mainly a spvp/wvwvw player you're buying the expac for the especs ANYWAYS.
    So, instead of playing 40 bucks or so for a huge expac you get free expac level content and just pay a bit for the especs. Anyone who would actually argue against that shouldn't be taken seriously.

    Yeah but having specs in expansions is a big difference to just having the specs as a monitized feature.. like on the gemstore for example.
    Some argue the expansions are pay to win because of elite specs or in other games where they increase level caps or gear progression etc but that kind of thing is expected in expansions and would cause more outrage if you were paying for an expansion that didnt add some new way to expand/improve your character.
    Expansions expand the pre exisrting game.. pretty much why they're called expansions.

    Putting specs on the gemstore would be much like putting a new tier of gear with higher stats than ascended exclusively on the gemstore.. people would be right to call foul on that and claim pay to win.. specially if that gear were usable in competitive modes.

    It wouldn't be on the gem store. It would be a separate DLC. The game IS buy to play after all. DLC is the backbone of that model. For crying out loud, if you don't login during a certain period you have to buy LW episodes for a small fee right? They are also DLC.

    Well you buy living world on the gemstore :P

    In general though I don't particularly like that concept myself, I find that for newer or players returning from long breaks that catchup price can be pretty heavy and very off putting.. and the longer you're put off on coming back the bigger that price tag gets.
    The only plus side being that you can play the game and earn the gold to buy gems to buy the episodes but it's still a pretty poor model imo.

    After all if you've never heard of Gw2 and come into the game now, decide you love it and want to catch up it's pretty disheartening looking at all the money you need spend to do it.. and more so when you learn that most other players only had to pay for a couple expansions as they got all the living world free just by playing.
    Can make someone feel like they're being screwed over.. or being punished for being late to the party, I've had friends say as much as their main reason for not wanting to invest in Gw2.

    You mean those players that only had to pay for core, hot and pof that you now get with only buying pof?
    Yea so evil that they get dlc for free that people who havent been here the first 6 years have to pay for when they arrive.

  • Xenon.4537Xenon.4537 Member ✭✭✭

    I wouldn't mind paying expansion-level-prices for expansion-level-content. But we aren't really getting expansion-level. And they don't even sell anything but skins and toys so what's the point?

  • Mortifera.6138Mortifera.6138 Member ✭✭✭

    Slim to none.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    I was expecting us to eventually go to the North and handle Jormag ever since PoF was released. Considering Season 4 would have taken care of all loose ends involving Kralk, an expansion would have made sense especially introducing a theme of hunting and cold-weather-like especs to go with it. There are a lot of characters without daggers, torches and guns. It was toned down to a mere living world season.

    When they said "expansion level" content, I can't help but remember Sun's Refuge.

  • Balance is already one big clown fiesta.. no thanks

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    The amount of time needed to create and balance 9 new elite specs is far too big for them to be released outside of an expansion.

    It's far too big a task to be done as living world.. and even if it was done and Anet decided to release another expansion in the future people would quickly start to ask questions like.. why should we have to pay for this expansion when all the features in it we've been getting for free over the last few years.

    The biggest problem with promiting messages like.. Expansion like content.
    Give people things for free and they will expect you to continue to do so.

    I wouldn't mind paying for the e-specs separately if the LW gives expac-level maps and features.

    The amount of pay to win rage that would cause though xD

    Since when paid DLC is p2w?

    It's not necs that it would be p2w, there would be a huge cry about it nonetheless. Anet have admitted in the past that elites have steadily caused a power creep over the years. It is a natural assumption therefore that a new elite would cause a new power creep. And since you exclusively are purchasing that power, that argument would be made (loudly).

    I'm not sure I agree with the reasoning, but I can understand the complaint

    Stupid arguements shouldn't be the reason for a desicion. Like I said, if youre mainly a spvp/wvwvw player you're buying the expac for the especs ANYWAYS.
    So, instead of playing 40 bucks or so for a huge expac you get free expac level content and just pay a bit for the especs. Anyone who would actually argue against that shouldn't be taken seriously.

    Yeah but having specs in expansions is a big difference to just having the specs as a monitized feature.. like on the gemstore for example.
    Some argue the expansions are pay to win because of elite specs or in other games where they increase level caps or gear progression etc but that kind of thing is expected in expansions and would cause more outrage if you were paying for an expansion that didnt add some new way to expand/improve your character.
    Expansions expand the pre exisrting game.. pretty much why they're called expansions.

    Putting specs on the gemstore would be much like putting a new tier of gear with higher stats than ascended exclusively on the gemstore.. people would be right to call foul on that and claim pay to win.. specially if that gear were usable in competitive modes.

    It wouldn't be on the gem store. It would be a separate DLC. The game IS buy to play after all. DLC is the backbone of that model. For crying out loud, if you don't login during a certain period you have to buy LW episodes for a small fee right? They are also DLC.

    Well you buy living world on the gemstore :P

    In general though I don't particularly like that concept myself, I find that for newer or players returning from long breaks that catchup price can be pretty heavy and very off putting.. and the longer you're put off on coming back the bigger that price tag gets.
    The only plus side being that you can play the game and earn the gold to buy gems to buy the episodes but it's still a pretty poor model imo.

    After all if you've never heard of Gw2 and come into the game now, decide you love it and want to catch up it's pretty disheartening looking at all the money you need spend to do it.. and more so when you learn that most other players only had to pay for a couple expansions as they got all the living world free just by playing.
    Can make someone feel like they're being screwed over.. or being punished for being late to the party, I've had friends say as much as their main reason for not wanting to invest in Gw2.

    You mean those players that only had to pay for core, hot and pof that you now get with only buying pof?
    Yea so evil that they get dlc for free that people who havent been here the first 6 years have to pay for when they arrive.

    You mean players like me who own the Gw2 collectors edition and Ultimate editions of both HoT and PoF lol

    My point wasn't that we get the living world for free, it was more about how off putting the pricing is for the living world if you're a newer player who's missed out on several years of it.
    Personally I'd tie the previous living world episodes into the expansion cost instead of making HoT free with PoF
    Buy HoT, get season 2 with it.
    Buy PoF, get season 3 with it.

    This would have been a far better and cleaner solution for story continuity rather than people buying one expansion, getting the other for free and then having to buy many living world episodes seperately so they can understand what the hell is going on.
    As good as Gw2's story is, it's a total cluster..... if you don't have access to the whole thing in order, and nobody wants to buy an expansion only to find out that there's a whole years worth of story content they can't play that sets the whole expansion up in the first place.
    It's one of the few areas where I think Anet have dropped the ball when it comes to being pro consumer.

  • Rezzet.3614Rezzet.3614 Member ✭✭✭

    i dont think they ll make any specs for now specially when they are nuking combat as a whole soon

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rezzet.3614 said:
    i dont think they ll make any specs for now specially when they are nuking combat as a whole soon

    Actually, it might be a good time BECAUSE they nerf everything.
    Now, that lots of things are going to be somewhat levelled down, they can introduce new power creep with new elite specs.
    And then they can restart "fixing" core classes to fit the new elite specs and then refit old elite specs to those new core changes, as usual.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well they are nerfing all of the classes and elit spec. for wvw and spvp (where ppl wants these things) so maybe? This has happens before.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Doubt it, se5 will be either 8 or 9 episodes so 2021 at the earliest, past that we deff need and expansion but most importantly we need new elites.

  • IndigoSundown.5419IndigoSundown.5419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No hero challenges in Saga maps so far, so they'd need to: retroactively put them in (angering at least some of those who've done completion on those maps); cram a whole saga's worth into what maps are coming; or come up with a new mechanic (earning the ire of those who've stockpiled hero points). Odds don't look good to me.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:
    No hero challenges in Saga maps so far, so they'd need to: retroactively put them in (angering at least some of those who've done completion on those maps); cram a whole saga's worth into what maps are coming; or come up with a new mechanic (earning the ire of those who've stockpiled hero points). Odds don't look good to me.

    It's 1 or 2 month until the balance patch hits anyway, and if they keep going at the current pace, we have a new map and episode by then.
    Then we get two or maybe 4 months to get used to the changes, with new maps and episodes each two months.
    After that, we have 4 or 5 maps, that can very well hold 25 Hero challenges for the 250 needed.

    Or they can be like "Old content gives you enough points anyway."

    Or they just sell them for gems and don't require hero points at all.

  • @IndigoSundown.5419 said:
    No hero challenges in Saga maps so far, so they'd need to: retroactively put them in (angering at least some of those who've done completion on those maps); cram a whole saga's worth into what maps are coming; or come up with a new mechanic (earning the ire of those who've stockpiled hero points). Odds don't look good to me.

    They've already shown that they're willing to let map completion stand for those who finished Eastern Bjora Marches before the Western half released, so that doesn't seem like a problem. And they've also shown just now that they're willing to go back and add mastery points to the older maps as well.

    I'm still not expecting elite specs with the Icebrood Saga, but here's my idea on how it might work if they did. Start rolling out the Saga without Elite Specs or hero points. Wait until most of the maps are released. Then, for the big finale, roll out the specs and retroactively add hero points to all the maps like they seem to be doing gradually with Mastery points. Not only have you effectively drawn out an expansion over a whole year, but you've suddenly given everyone a reason to flood back into the early maps of the season, just like the Skyscale did for Season 4.

    Again, I'm keeping my expectations low, but the fact that they retroactively added Mastery points to Grothmar Valley caught my eye.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    @Perihen the Thawk.9527 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:
    No hero challenges in Saga maps so far, so they'd need to: retroactively put them in (angering at least some of those who've done completion on those maps); cram a whole saga's worth into what maps are coming; or come up with a new mechanic (earning the ire of those who've stockpiled hero points). Odds don't look good to me.

    They've already shown that they're willing to let map completion stand for those who finished Eastern Bjora Marches before the Western half released, so that doesn't seem like a problem. And they've also shown just now that they're willing to go back and add mastery points to the older maps as well.

    Maps also stayed flagged as completed, back when they added more waypoints and PoIs to old maps for the then-new (and now abandoned) guild activities.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Perihen the Thawk.9527 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:
    No hero challenges in Saga maps so far, so they'd need to: retroactively put them in (angering at least some of those who've done completion on those maps); cram a whole saga's worth into what maps are coming; or come up with a new mechanic (earning the ire of those who've stockpiled hero points). Odds don't look good to me.

    They've already shown that they're willing to let map completion stand for those who finished Eastern Bjora Marches before the Western half released, so that doesn't seem like a problem. And they've also shown just now that they're willing to go back and add mastery points to the older maps as well.

    Maps also stayed flagged as completed, back when they added more waypoints and PoIs to old maps for the then-new (and now abandoned) guild activities.

    I got two chests for completing bjora. One for doing so on the initial release and another on the post release, not sure if thats a bug or not.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Perihen the Thawk.9527 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:
    No hero challenges in Saga maps so far, so they'd need to: retroactively put them in (angering at least some of those who've done completion on those maps); cram a whole saga's worth into what maps are coming; or come up with a new mechanic (earning the ire of those who've stockpiled hero points). Odds don't look good to me.

    They've already shown that they're willing to let map completion stand for those who finished Eastern Bjora Marches before the Western half released, so that doesn't seem like a problem. And they've also shown just now that they're willing to go back and add mastery points to the older maps as well.

    Maps also stayed flagged as completed, back when they added more waypoints and PoIs to old maps for the then-new (and now abandoned) guild activities.

    I got two chests for completing bjora. One for doing so on the initial release and another on the post release, not sure if thats a bug or not.

    I didn't get another chest on my Guardian after re-completing it.