VB meta needs revamp

[Hashberry.4510]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@Hashberry.4510 said:I believe EU may have more T4 attempts. NA does several a week, but If its not your routine play time, you will never see it. I do not think they should change the meta though, it a great bit of teamwork. Just soloing a camp to keep a chopper open is smaller scale fun.

Its often suggested to add a rare infusion to T4, sounds like a good idea.

Which means ppl don't like doing it, then it's not great teamwork at all but not so good content.

If you say so.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:Im not sure I agree on this one. Every time I drop into VB the meta is always done everytime with at least 1 boss if not all. It never hits max tier, but max tier was only ever for organised groups and unless a collection specifies it, it isnt required (the chest armour randomly drops from any canopy boss).

I dont think this is one needing any urgent attention

1 boss is nowhere close to enough.

Enough for what?

Enough to attract ppl doing it.

But people are doing it. Even if they only do one boss you get the gemstone and can get the chestpiece. Even so, Ive done all 5 bosses twice last week on maps Ive logged into without even knowing if meta was up or not.

Are people doing max tier? Only select groups, but it is already well scaled to get what is needed from less now so Im not seeing a need to nerf. I do agree the pre is long, but the whole event is tied directly into the day/night time cycle. I dont really see them going back and working on untying it from the cycle for no real gain.

Not really, it's nowhere close to the popularity to other 3 map meta.

It's not well scaled if ppl think the reward doesn't match up with the time and difficulty. Why is it so hard to understand.

It gives less rewards while requiring 2 to 3 times the time investment when comparing to the other HoT maps. In terms of difficulty there isn't much difference.

[Pacificterror.7805]

Every evening that I go on, if I'm in VB, people are doing the meta (a lot of people)....I'm very inactive but I've obtained the Bladed Armor Box pieces multiple times now. It could just be my timezone, though (AEST).

[Astralporing.1957]

@Pacificterror.7805 said:Every evening that I go on, if I'm in VB, people are doing the meta (a lot of people)....I'm very inactive but I've obtained the Bladed Armor Box pieces multiple times now. It could just be my timezone, though (AEST).Most of the time i am there, the meta is being done, but it usually involves people doing nothing (and maybe killing veteran spawns close to the start waypoint), and joining only when choppers arrive. And even then sometimes they join only on Matri/Parti, leaving the other 3 bosses alone.

@Hashberry.4510 said:I believe EU may have more T4 attempts. NA does several a week, but If its not your routine play time, you will never see it. I do not think they should change the meta though, it a great bit of teamwork. Just soloing a camp to keep a chopper open is smaller scale fun.

Its often suggested to add a rare infusion to T4, sounds like a good idea.Considering how rare the t4 is, and that most people don't bother doing the earky defend/capture events, and only start to act once the bosses appear, it would only aggravate the situation. No, it would not significantly increase the chances of getting t4 - but it would make people far more angry for not being able to get to that tier.

@Khisanth.2948 said:It gives less rewards while requiring 2 to 3 times the time investment when comparing to the other HoT maps. In terms of difficulty there isn't much difference.And it's mindnumbigly boring. That's a massive demerit. Players want to do stuff. They don't want to stand alone on point, killing few mobs every now and then while trying to stay awake.

Personally, i think that some changes to the first stage of the night meta might indeed be in order - perhaps more options to increase map rating, that aren't so boring as the defence event. Possibly ones that can be zerged, because at this point we no longer can depend on map getting organized enough for many small groups of players working all over the map in perfect coordination. Maybe some roaming champs, that, when killed, cap all surrounding camps/delay the time until next defend event (and drop some stuff on top of it, so people will feel the need to go and kill them)?

[Luthan.5236]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:The first part is simply about doing the same boring defending/escort quests for 20 mins and it was hard to organize . I don't see why shouldn't it be removed.Would ruin the experience for new players. Auric Basin had a boring meta. But I really liked the outposts in Tangled Depths and Verdant Brink. Even though it got repetitive ... when returning to the maps after some time (when not farming it daily) they still might be nice. Cause it is a nice addition to the HoT story.

Verdant Brink I liked the most. The atmosphere. How the story introduced your new allies (Hylek) at the beginning and they also had their camp and you could help for progress. Then later the threatennig atmosphere in the night.

I have to admit: Haven't been there for some time. When I started HoT beginning of 2020 I tried to do a lot of achievements. (Still a lot are missing.) And it got me tons of crowbars (the keys for that map) to open those chests ... so I could open the one in my home instance daily for a few hundred days. Empty now. Maybe I will go to VD again to farm some while going for some of the other achievements.

I'm mainly focused on having fun and on the achievements. Not on getting a high tier in the meta. (I'd rather get that bladed armor from other sources. Seem some is buyable from a vendodr and some from a reward track PvP.)

[Robban.1256]

@"Slowpokeking.8720" said:I barely see it have taxi or maps doing it. Because it's so long and doesn't have that much award compare to DS.

It needs to reduce the length, remove the first part and just let the players do bosses, also reward ppl with top tier as long as you finish it with killing all the bosses.

If we talk about gold per hour or total amount of gold the VB is much better.

Verdant Brink baubles = 15-19,46g/hour + 22,6k karma + 9 spirit shards. Total gold= 30-38.https://fast.farming-community.eu/open-world/farmtrain

Dragonstand= 11g 78s/hour + 7,7k karma + 12 spirit shards.https://www.peuresearchcenter.com/benchmarks.html

But why more ppl do dragonstand is cus of Legendarys (specially for Crystalline Ore) or map completion and that VB is much easier to Solo or low man

[Khisanth.2948]

@Robban.1256 said:

@"Slowpokeking.8720" said:I barely see it have taxi or maps doing it. Because it's so long and doesn't have that much award compare to DS.

It needs to reduce the length, remove the first part and just let the players do bosses, also reward ppl with top tier as long as you finish it with killing all the bosses.

If we talk about gold per hour or total amount of gold the VB is much better.

Verdant Brink baubles = 15-19,46g/hour + 22,6k karma + 9 spirit shards. Total gold= 30-38.

https://fast.farming-community.eu/open-world/farmtrain

Dragonstand= 11g 78s/hour + 7,7k karma + 12 spirit shards.

https://www.peuresearchcenter.com/benchmarks.html

But why more ppl do dragonstand is cus of Legendarys (specially for Crystalline Ore) or map completion and that VB is much easier to Solo or low man

VB baubles can only be done once every 3 or 4 weeks since the map bonus thing that gives the baubles rotates.

[Robban.1256]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Robban.1256 said:

@"Slowpokeking.8720" said:I barely see it have taxi or maps doing it. Because it's so long and doesn't have that much award compare to DS.

It needs to reduce the length, remove the first part and just let the players do bosses, also reward ppl with top tier as long as you finish it with killing all the bosses.

If we talk about gold per hour or total amount of gold the VB is much better.

Verdant Brink baubles = 15-19,46g/hour + 22,6k karma + 9 spirit shards. Total gold= 30-38.

https://fast.farming-community.eu/open-world/farmtrain

Dragonstand= 11g 78s/hour + 7,7k karma + 12 spirit shards.

https://www.peuresearchcenter.com/benchmarks.html

But why more ppl do dragonstand is cus of Legendarys (specially for Crystalline Ore) or map completion and that VB is much easier to Solo or low man

VB baubles can only be done once every 3 or 4 weeks since the map bonus thing that gives the baubles rotates.

I do know, VB is still better

[Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.294]

There is one change that does need to be made to the VB meta. Matriarch shouldn't spawn unless at least one of the camps is under control at the 20 minute mark. I busted my butt last night, and it wasn't the first time, to clear the main pact camp so the chopper could land and I could hitch a ride to do matriarch. I started two to three minutes before her spawn time and ended up getting the camp cleared with the help of a couple others at about the 18 minute mark. By the time we got up there, the group camping her spawn had already cleared her. I did manage to get over to Patriarch and melt him with just three or four other players - and melt him we did, it took us less than 3 minutes to break his barrier at 25% and kill him.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@"Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.2946" said:There is one change that does need to be made to the VB meta. Matriarch shouldn't spawn unless at least one of the camps is under control at the 20 minute mark. I busted my butt last night, and it wasn't the first time, to clear the main pact camp so the chopper could land and I could hitch a ride to do matriarch. I started two to three minutes before her spawn time and ended up getting the camp cleared with the help of a couple others at about the 18 minute mark. By the time we got up there, the group camping her spawn had already cleared her. I did manage to get over to Patriarch and melt him with just three or four other players - and melt him we did, it took us less than 3 minutes to break his barrier at 25% and kill him.

Yeah this is a real problem, I've had such problem for several times.

I think the best way is just remove the first part or make them non meta events, the meta is only about killing 5 bosses.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

It happened many times these days.

Ppl just put their characters there and don't care about rally points, I think it's against the basic purpose of this meta and very annoying.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Robban.1256 said:

@"Slowpokeking.8720" said:I barely see it have taxi or maps doing it. Because it's so long and doesn't have that much award compare to DS.

It needs to reduce the length, remove the first part and just let the players do bosses, also reward ppl with top tier as long as you finish it with killing all the bosses.

If we talk about gold per hour or total amount of gold the VB is much better.

Verdant Brink baubles = 15-19,46g/hour + 22,6k karma + 9 spirit shards. Total gold= 30-38.

https://fast.farming-community.eu/open-world/farmtrain

Dragonstand= 11g 78s/hour + 7,7k karma + 12 spirit shards.

https://www.peuresearchcenter.com/benchmarks.html

But why more ppl do dragonstand is cus of Legendarys (specially for Crystalline Ore) or map completion and that VB is much easier to Solo or low man

Assuming that the spirit shard and karma conversions are not already a part of the total they list. I don't disagree with you about the lack of profitability for DS.

[Khisanth.2948]

@"Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.2946" said:There is one change that does need to be made to the VB meta. Matriarch shouldn't spawn unless at least one of the camps is under control at the 20 minute mark. I busted my butt last night, and it wasn't the first time, to clear the main pact camp so the chopper could land and I could hitch a ride to do matriarch. I started two to three minutes before her spawn time and ended up getting the camp cleared with the help of a couple others at about the 18 minute mark. By the time we got up there, the group camping her spawn had already cleared her. I did manage to get over to Patriarch and melt him with just three or four other players - and melt him we did, it took us less than 3 minutes to break his barrier at 25% and kill him.

People would just move to a different boss. Change it to all bosses and people just stop doing VB entirely. Great fix in the same way that murder is technically a cure for all diseases.

Patriarch can be solo fairly easily and it is actually easier(or at least faster) with less people because of the awful scaling on its shield.

A simple and minor change that would be a nice improvement to VB is to simply move all the chests that spawn after killing a boss on to their platforms instead of having the floating around. How many people are even aware of those? Maybe add an additional large cargo per platform.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Hate to say this but move the choosy chest to after all 5 bosses are killed. It might kill the meta or it might promote people to kill more than matriarch and patriarch l.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@Khisanth.2948 said:People would just move to a different boss. Change it to all bosses and people just stop doing VB entirely. Great fix in the same way that murder is technically a cure for all diseases.

Patriarch can be solo fairly easily and it is actually easier(or at least faster) with less people because of the awful scaling on its shield.

A simple and minor change that would be a nice improvement to VB is to simply move all the chests that spawn after killing a boss on to their platforms instead of having the floating around. How many people are even aware of those? Maybe add an additional large cargo per platform.

Just remove the first part.

[AliamRationem.5172]

I agree that this meta is too long and fails too frequently to feel rewarding relative to the other HoT metas. However, I suggest they keep it as it is. Some people prefer a challenging meta that requires map-wide coordination. They should be able to experience VB the way it was intended.

Instead of altering the meta, I suggest they provide an additional bladed armor box for maps that complete 5/5 canopy bosses. This presents players with the opportunity to earn two bladed armor boxes during the VB meta. It also discourages players from simply killing 1 boss and then going AFK because the map has no chance of achieving T4. If they want the other bladed armor box they'll need to ensure that all 5 canopy bosses die.

[Khisanth.2948]

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:I agree that this meta is too long and fails too frequently to feel rewarding relative to the other HoT metas. However, I suggest they keep it as it is. Some people prefer a challenging meta that requires map-wide coordination. They should be able to experience VB the way it was intended.

Instead of altering the meta, I suggest they provide an additional bladed armor box for maps that complete 5/5 canopy bosses. This presents players with the opportunity to earn two bladed armor boxes during the VB meta. It also discourages players from simply killing 1 boss and then going AFK because the map has no chance of achieving T4. If they want the other bladed armor box they'll need to ensure that all 5 canopy bosses die.

and it continues to fail because there weren't enough people doing the first half

Also nobody has been able to do VB as intended since https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2016-04-19#Update_-_April_19.2C_2016

[Obtena.7952]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:Im not sure I agree on this one. Every time I drop into VB the meta is always done everytime with at least 1 boss if not all. It never hits max tier, but max tier was only ever for organised groups and unless a collection specifies it, it isnt required (the chest armour randomly drops from any canopy boss).

I dont think this is one needing any urgent attention

1 boss is nowhere close to enough.

Enough for what?

Enough to attract ppl doing it.

Apparently that's can't be true since people doing that 1 boss IS proof people are attracted to doing that content.

VB is long ... sure. But I have never had a problem getting into a map and seeing people do it, so I'm not sure your conclusions for the need to do a revamp are correct.

[Illumine Sparkler.6019]

I don’t think day time needs a change, but night time does, I’ve been trying for weeks to get an item that needs t4 and all bosses, most people get the meta chest from first boss then leave so the rest doesn’t complete.

[aspirine.6852]

Lol m they wont even fix broken events in the normal game mode... There are quests broken for as long as I can remember.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Illumine Sparkler.6019 said:I don’t think day time needs a change, but night time does, I’ve been trying for weeks to get an item that needs t4 and all bosses, most people get the meta chest from first boss then leave so the rest doesn’t complete.

How many people who are complaining actually knows how VB works?

I'll get the most important bit out of the way: t4 VB does not require killing all bosses

People leaving is irrelevant as far as getting to t4 is concerned. It didn't fail to get to t4 because people left. It failed to get to t4 because there wasn't anyone around earlier to do the first part of the night meta. Getting people to do the first part of the night time meta means having to start organizing before night starts. So that means someone is going to have to spending around an hour for it. It will also mean needing to get around 5 people with tags. Not because they are required by the game mechanics but because people have a tendency to go follow a tag around instead of following instructions and splitting up. I've seen claims that it can be done with just the second half of the night meta but I've never witnessed it myself. I have witnessed plenty of t3.9999999999999999999s because people insisted on swarming a boss (usually patriarch which didn't even need the help) instead of hunting down veteran mordrems on the ground which will provide more progress.

An instance can easily reach t4 if enough was done to get it to around t2.5 by the time bosses spawn. I am not sure about the exact minimum requirements to do that but at least 1 rally point can be skipped. There are 5 areas and 3 rally points each for a total of 15 rally points. Since 1 can be skipped that makes 14. No more than 3 people are needed per point. 1 person is doable but it can be borderline cheating. That means 14-45 people are needed to get through the first half. An instance can hold at least 2 full squads so that is at least 100 people which means even if half were camping mat there is still enough space for others but the people who are camping mat do not even log in until around the last defense phase for the first half anyway.

IF an instance made it to t2.5 in the first half then t4 becomes trivial. Just kill 4 out of the 5 bosses and you'll hit t4 while leaving you around 10-12 to twiddle your thumbs waiting for the final reward popup. Speaking of killing bosses, here is another place for stupid decision making. Even though having mat killed is already practically a given, people still go there instead of simply killing 3 of the others. 14-45 people split between 3 bosses would be very easy. Just 14 would be pretty easy. 2-3 at axemaster, 2-3 at patriarch, and the rest at either frogs or trio.

It also has some tough scheduling competition. In every time slot it will be competing against ley line anomaly for keeping people around. At reset it will be additionally competing against Tequatl.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Illumine Sparkler.6019 said:I don’t think day time needs a change, but night time does, I’ve been trying for weeks to get an item that needs t4 and all bosses, most people get the meta chest from first boss then leave so the rest doesn’t complete.I'll get the most important bit out of the way:

t4 VB does not require killing all bosses

It doesn't, but killing only one boss does make reaching t4 next to impossible. Remember, all 5 bosses together are worth whole progress tier.

IF

an instance made it to t2.5 in the first half then t4 becomes trivial. Just kill 4 out of the 5 bosses and you'll hit t4 while leaving you around 10-12 to twiddle your thumbs waiting for the final reward popup.The example given was 1 out of 5 bosses killed, not 4. That makes a massive difference. And yes, 1-2 bosses killed (Matri and Patri) and the rest left alive is what happens a lot of the times.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

Also I'm not sure but when did the wp rp event become so hard? we got 3-4 ppl and it still fell down very fast

[Westenev.5289]

Weird, I always see people afking until nightfall to kill matriach/patriach. Only revamp this map needs is killfloors until the boss spawns, to spite the leechers.

[Linken.6345]

@Westenev.5289 said:Weird, I always see people afking until nightfall to kill matriach/patriach. Only revamp this map needs is killfloors until the boss spawns, to spite the leechers.

Well people will just go afk on a vine or use skyscale to avoid kllfloors.