Is WvW Roaming dead with new balance patch?

[lodjur.1284]

@SehferViega.8725 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

Please explain me how lower damage and higher cooldowns on breackstun and healing will help a solo roamer against a group of 2-4 players.

Longer fights gives you more opportunities to outplay your opponents.

Larger group are made by profession that usually doesn't have high mobility and high evade, the only problem with current meta are mounts that allow 50 players squad to move around as fast as a thief.

Mounts vastly improved my roaming experience, try to think of it from a perspective that isn't thief/war/mes/ranger

Lower evade, lower mobility, less breakstun: again tell me how this will help outnumbered fights. All these changes only help noob players: less damage, then less you will pay for your mistakes, that's the only true.

The less likely the fight is to end because you get stealth bursted in the middle of your 1v3

It makes it much less effective when people initiate with their burst on you then runs away when you look at them and you can't catch them cause they have obscene mobility.

Again:1) higher cooldowns = less keys you have to press..

It means you have to think about when you use them more

2) lower damage = less attacks you have to dodge.

Yet the number of dodges are the same, it means that it will be a more interesting decision, which skills you should facetank and which you should dodge.

3) More initiative cost (for thieves) = less skill diversity.. you will only spam THE skill that makes damage.

If all other classes get increased cooldowns then thief instead gets increased cost.

All these mean less skills needed to play.

Nah the current state really allows some classes to carry.

Player's Skills made fights last longer, a fight that last for 20 minutes cause nobody is able to kill the opponent is neither fun: this already happens today in some fights.. with this patch it will be the norm.

Those fights never happen except between minstrel builds or in situations involving obscene amounts of kiting/resetting. If you frequently encounter these fights, you might be the problem. I have never encountered one and I usually don't run anything resembling glassy builds (except every now and then to get a new perspective).

[anduriell.6280]

Roaming being dead for years already....

[RedShark.9548]

@lodjur.1284 said:Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

[Blackarps.1974]

I don't think so but you'll probably see a lot more +1s to the fights because they will take longer to finish. Its all going to scale so I don't think any one class will be too deeply affected. You'll still see a lot of thieves, mesmers, and warriors. Hopefully we see more build diversity though and a lot more hybrid builds being meta. Looks like a good patch though so far so that's good for us. Only thing I'm worried about is the health pool still being pretty high for players. This might make organized fights really boring if people find new ways to sustain.

I also hope they lower the HP of guards so I can still solo camps relatively quickly....also iron guard SMC lord makes me cringe thinking about us all doing at least 25% less damage.

[lodjur.1284]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

[Doo Lally.8594]

@LetoII.3782 said:Sky is falling Sky is falling

Henny Penny new OP build - confirmed.

[Ghostof Luzifer.6159]

@lodjur.1284 said:From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

Yes so true!

[Bunny.9834]

it’s been dead lol.

[Ultramex.1506]

Sorry when did roaming resurrected? I thought people said it died when Warclaw was introduced

[Substance E.4852]

@lodjur.1284 said:From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

There is a pretty good reason that one of the go to things to bitch about when complaining about the warclaw is how it makes it harder to ninja unguarded towers

[lodjur.1284]

@Substance E.4852 said:

@"lodjur.1284" said:From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

There is a pretty good reason that one of the go to things to kitten about when complaining about the warclaw is how it makes it harder to ninja unguarded towers

Is PvDing really something to strive for... Especially when "roaming"

[Svarty.8019]

Roamers will obliterate people after the patch. It's back to 2012 with condi thief bs wrecking groups and nobody daring to leave towers (arrow carts don't get nerfed but healing does. Enjoy).

[Substance E.4852]

@lodjur.1284 said:

@Substance E.4852 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

There is a pretty good reason that one of the go to things to kitten about when complaining about the warclaw is how it makes it harder to ninja unguarded towers

Is PvDing really something to strive for... Especially when "roaming"

You wouldn't think so but "people arrive before we can cat down the wall" seems to be a common complaint

[Anput.4620]

@lodjur.1284 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.

[lodjur.1284]

@Anput.4620 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.

Then just lance them off, if they dodge it and run away odds are they'd manage to do the same on foot

[Dawdler.8521]

@Anput.4620 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

[Gwaihir.1745]

Yes because mounts did a fine job of killing it already, but no we dont know how the patch will play out.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Substance E.4852 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:

@Substance E.4852 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

There is a pretty good reason that one of the go to things to kitten about when complaining about the warclaw is how it makes it harder to ninja unguarded towers

Is PvDing really something to strive for... Especially when "roaming"

You wouldn't think so but "people arrive before we can cat down the wall" seems to be a common complaint

Those that state that complaint don’t know where to place them.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Only thing dead in WvW are ~85% of my foes :trollface:

[Daxia.1425]

To me it feels like the high dps runners have the most to complain when they can't do their lil trick anymore and i don't care about them. Looking forward to more interesting fights :)

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

@SehferViega.8725 said:

@"lodjur.1284" said:Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

Please explain me how lower damage and higher cooldowns on breackstun and healing will help a solo roamer against a group of 2-4 players.

Larger group are made by profession that usually doesn't have high mobility and high evade, the only problem with current meta are mounts that allow 50 players squad to move around as fast as a thief.Lower evade, lower mobility, less breakstun: again tell me how this will help outnumbered fights. All these changes only help noob players: less damage, then less you will pay for your mistakes, that's the only true.Again:1) higher cooldowns = less keys you have to press..2) lower damage = less attacks you have to dodge.3) More initiative cost (for thieves) = less skill diversity.. you will only spam THE skill that makes damage.All these mean less skills needed to play.

Player's Skills made fights last longer, a fight that last for 20 minutes cause nobody is able to kill the opponent is neither fun: this already happens today in some fights.. with this patch it will be the norm.

Longer CDs and less "get out of jail free" buttons they have, the better chance most roamers will have. Because most people roamers run into are of much lower skill level, if they were of the same skill, in a 1vs2+ fight, the one will always lose, however if they are the better player, then the other side will spam (waste) their skills in short order leaving the better player who sets up skill use and bursts will have a greater advantage because after the patch you are going to feel CDs much more. In the current state, so many skills do so much or are on WAY to short of CDs or are wholly passive with no skill required.

You, like many others seem to forget that bursts still have to be dodge or countered, you will not be punished less do to less damage, as healing and boons have also been nerfed. Once live, I would not be surprised to see TTK remaining the same if you exclude the one shot or "one shot" combo builds. And many builds that were known for very high sustain in many cases are getting hit hard.

1) higher cooldowns = less keys you have to press..

Same number of keys to press and manage, nothing changes here, however, how you manage them will matter a great deal, as incorrect timing of skill use will be punishing.

2) lower damage = less attacks you have to dodge.

Lower damage along with lower healing, nerfed passives and nerfed boons which are a huge part the the current sustain ability of many classes. As such, those burst skills will STILL need to be dodged.

3) More initiative cost (for thieves) = less skill diversity.. you will only spam THE skill that makes damage.

So nothing changes here then? Any class you give shared resource management to will be this way, because you will always end up with one skill doing the most work for the amount of resources consumed and as such will end up being the one to always be used for a given situation.

[LionZero.3479]

I suspect +1ing on roaming is gonna be easier with longer cd's and less mobility and 5 man groups with at least 2 supports gonna be able to faceroll on their keyboards without threat cause nothing is gonna be able to burst pressure em anymore.

[Dawdler.8521]

@LionZero.3479 said:I suspect +1ing on roaming is gonna be easier with longer cd's and less mobility and 5 man groups with at least 2 supports gonna be able to faceroll on their keyboards without threat cause nothing is gonna be able to burst pressure em anymore.Yeah it will definetly make people unable to burst pressure them and be completely unlike todays weaksauce 5 man mini melee train groups with 2-3 guard+scrapper supports that fall like dominos when people sneeze on them, uhum yep.

[LionZero.3479]

I'm glad you agree it's gonna make it even easier for them ^^

[displayname.8315]

So no more sitting on the warclaw and waiting for someone to get one shotted? That is roleplaying at its best lawl.

Will be hard to tell how it actually effects structured fights since there are no guilds or structured fights in WvW anymore.

Nothing effects the "run when its close numbers, attack when you outnumber them"