Party Guardian... could do with work — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Party Guardian... could do with work

Doghouse.1562Doghouse.1562 Member ✭✭✭
edited January 31, 2020 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

So. To get the MP for the achievement, you've got to kill every one of 5 champs.

But
1. only one spawns at a time,
2. the spawn is only every 40-45 minutes,
3. which one spawns is random,
4. the spawn locations are spread out, and
5. the champs melt like ice in the sun when they're attacked.

I'd just like to politely suggest that the combination of all five of the above is... ...not ideal. Especially the combination of numbers 3 and 5 - we need at least a decent chance to get to the right place in time to kill the champ.

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Comments

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    You can do lots of things in the meantime, I think the problem of the champ taken down in seconds is the fault of kitten players that insist on nuking it down, and not giving others a chance to get there. It's not Anets fault. [moderator: content edited]

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So, you’re saying this is something that can be completed with smaller numbers then? (Melts like ice)

    Well then, I guess my plan of waiting a few weeks is the right one.

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  • Jayden Reese.9542Jayden Reese.9542 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It was an attempt to get you back on that map because you know you MUST do it. That extra MP you don't need sure is worth sitting there for hours. I went back for the 2 commune ones. No reason to choose to waste your time there then complain you chose. If you do then just do the meta for a key hope one you needs spawns then leave. If you want to waste hours so you have that 1 extra MP on next release to get some unknown advantage over me who chooses not to waste my time then more power to ya

  • Doghouse.1562Doghouse.1562 Member ✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    So, you’re saying this is something that can be completed with smaller numbers then? (Melts like ice)

    Well then, I guess my plan of waiting a few weeks is the right one.

    What I've seen so far have been "champs" (like some of the ones in Bjorna) that a couple of players could wear down with time, and 3 or 4 will likely take down with reasonable ease. The challenge is getting people to tag them for the achievement and and then stop, so that it lasts long enough for others to arrive. As always, some people listen, some don't. Luck of the draw which you get each event.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2020

    They spawn about every 30 minutes. Four of the six are within short range of a WP. The other two take about 30 seconds from the WP. The champs are currently melting because there are so many players doing them right now. In a week or so, this won’t be the case.

    When I was farming the champs, most of them were up for about two minutes and it was announced on map the second they spawned. This is more than enough time to get to the champ. There are some people that apparently take their sweet time. There was one time we were doing prisoner, announced it with the WP in chat the second it spawned, and someone that was already on the map somehow did not get to it on time. This is an example of a player issue.

  • Cynder.2509Cynder.2509 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @aspirine.6852 said:

    You can do lots of things in the meantime, I think the problem of the champ taken down in seconds is the fault of kitten players that insist on nuking it down, and not giving others a chance to get there. It's not Anets fault.

    Well, if people are bad and not do nearly the least of DPS they should do it's not the fault of the Devs or neither of other people. People who are bad just need to take this into acccount that they won't have everything. /shrug
    For example if you decide to be a bearbow core ranger and only camp on pew pew don't expect people to invite you into their group for organized farms, raids etc.

    [moderator: content edited]

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  • MoriMoriMori.5349MoriMoriMori.5349 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @aspirine.6852 said:

    You can do lots of things in the meantime, I think the problem of the champ taken down in seconds is the fault of kitten players that insist on nuking it down, and not giving others a chance to get there. It's not Anets fault.

    It's actually solely Anet's fault - for making a champion mob that easy it can be melted down by a bunch of casuals spamming autoatack. When I play a game, the grind and metagaming of that kind you are talking about is the last thing I would think about. If I see a champion, I actually fight it, and have some fun. I don't think about achievement tracks, or someone's frustrations because they couldn't tag the mob, for christ sake. If it's a problem, it's one easily solvable - Anet needs to add some periods when they are invulnerable, give them area CC skills, and make them generally tougher.

    [moderator: content edited]

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @MoriMoriMori.5349 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:

    You can do lots of things in the meantime, I think the problem of the champ taken down in seconds is the fault of kitten players that insist on nuking it down, and not giving others a chance to get there. It's not Anets fault.

    It's actually solely Anet's fault - for making a champion mob that easy it can be melted down by a bunch of casuals spamming autoatack. When I play a game, the grind and metagaming of that kind you are talking about is the last thing I would think about. If I see a champion, I actually fight it, and have some fun. I don't think about achievement tracks, or someone's frustrations because they couldn't tag the mob, for christ sake. If it's a problem, it's one easily solvable - Anet needs to add some periods when they are invulnerable, give them area CC skills, and make them generally tougher.

    Not bad ideas, but remember when all the zergs and map locust are gone, there are few people that might need it too. They will need to find it and try to kill it with only a few. :/

    [moderator: content edited]

  • Zok.4956Zok.4956 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020

    @MoriMoriMori.5349 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:

    You can do lots of things in the meantime, I think the problem of the champ taken down in seconds is the fault of kitten players that insist on nuking it down, and not giving others a chance to get there. It's not Anets fault.

    It's actually solely Anet's fault - for making a champion mob that easy it can be melted down by a bunch of casuals spamming autoatack. When I play a game, the grind and metagaming of that kind you are talking about is the last thing I would think about. If I see a champion, I actually fight it, and have some fun.

    Today I had some nice champ runs. It was explained in map chat before, to announce when the champ spawns and to wait for other players, so that they also get a chance. As a result we had often 10-15 people, that waited at the champ for a minute or so, until everyone catched up, and then we started hitting and melting the champ.

    No one was forced to wait, but everyone did. It was a nice experience to play together with other players this way.

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    Which sounds better?

  • Jayden Reese.9542Jayden Reese.9542 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You get you don't need this mastery. I got 4 or 5 extra without it. You get that you got all the way to epi 3 to get it right so you have the extra to lvl mastery's faster? 2 months min. So sitting in a squad of 50 complaining 35 killed it instead of idk waiting 1 month till they sit there in map like before and calling it out is ok. I mean the complaining cause you need it now is so silly.

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Connor Fallon.9408 said:
    Hi all, I've committed a tweak to this that will hit with the Feb 11th build, creating more time in between when the ping shows up on the map and when the champ appears for the fight.

    This should give people who are trying to complete the achievement more time to find and join the event.

    I also took a look at scaling, but it looks like they are already scaling pretty notably? I'll poke at that a bit more. But either way, if more people are there, more people should be able to get credit.

    Thank you!

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I guess the problem will go away on its own once most of the AP chasers are done with this and it becomes mostly dead content again. Some people will still get screwed by RNG of course.

  • @Doghouse.1562 said:
    5. the champs melt like ice in the sun when they're attacked.

    I second this concern. It would be nice if these champs lasted more than 15-20 seconds. 90-120 seconds would be better. Enough that simple transit time across a map with a minimal distribution of waypoints does not turn out to be a show-stopper.

    As well, so we don't have to unrealistically presume on the general level of "socialization" (versus sociopathy?) among our fellow players, please incorporate some sort of announcement when things like this spawn, identifying the type of champ and the general location, or better yet, an indication on the map globally visible on the map from anywhere in the zone.

    Please feel free to do this all of this now, and in the future.

    Makework is makework. We do not necessarily expect to "enjoy" it intrinsically, nor are the rewards typically an inducement for sustained participation (case in point: once I got my mastery point from "Party Guardian"... I departed, never to return). The complexity and aggregate duration of things like this, all of that is a design decision. But minimizing senseless frustration, making it possible for people to get things done without being "cheated" out of the intermediate milestones on a regular basis, would be helpful.

    Unless, of course, it is your intention that "makework" be frustrating, and your game be something other than "fun"? (Alternatively, perhaps you could deliver "makework" that is not "makework"... something that is intrinsically interesting, with sufficient inducement for regular replay, etc?)

  • Jayden Reese.9542Jayden Reese.9542 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @acapela.8215 said:

    @Doghouse.1562 said:
    5. the champs melt like ice in the sun when they're attacked.

    I second this concern. It would be nice if these champs lasted more than 15-20 seconds. 90-120 seconds would be better. Enough that simple transit time across a map with a minimal distribution of waypoints does not turn out to be a show-stopper.

    As well, so we don't have to unrealistically presume on the general level of "socialization" (versus sociopathy?) among our fellow players, please incorporate some sort of announcement when things like this spawn, identifying the type of champ and the general location, or better yet, an indication on the map globally visible on the map from anywhere in the zone.

    Please feel free to do this all of this now, and in the future.

    Makework is makework. We do not necessarily expect to "enjoy" it intrinsically, nor are the rewards typically an inducement for sustained participation (case in point: once I got my mastery point from "Party Guardian"... I departed, never to return). The complexity and aggregate duration of things like this, all of that is a design decision. But minimizing senseless frustration, making it possible for people to get things done without being "cheated" out of the intermediate milestones on a regular basis, would be helpful.

    Unless, of course, it is your intention that "makework" be frustrating, and your game be something other than "fun"? (Alternatively, perhaps you could deliver "makework" that is not "makework"... something that is intrinsically interesting, with sufficient inducement for regular replay, etc?)

    look at anet reponse 2 comments up will save you a long rant

  • YtseJam.9784YtseJam.9784 Member ✭✭✭

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    You can do lots of things in the meantime, I think the problem of the champ taken down in seconds is the fault of kitten players that insist on nuking it down, and not giving others a chance to get there. It's not Anets fault. [moderator: content edited]

    You could, but you could miss it... and when you are down to the last one, you just wait at that one. I waited for the Prisoner one for 6 hours on the same map until it spawned... talk about RNG... Glad to be done with that achievement, and I agree with Doghouse's post that why after completing all my Grothmar achievements I have to go back and revisit that map cause they added a new one? I mean I know the answer, cause they want people to revisit that map so newcomers dont see it empty and cannot complete their stuff, but imo it's a cheap thing to do

  • This system still needs to be tweaked. Twice today, the ping never appeared on my map. The champions literally die in 30 seconds, so even if you go off chat call-outs, the chances of you getting there in time are slim to none, without just going AFK on a spawn location for an entire day.

    A very unenjoyable achievement to complete, if I'm going to be honest.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've already completed this twice but ... it would have been much less annoying if they simply made the champions cycle instead of random. Once you get to the last one there is still a 50% chance of not getting the one you need even after following through 2 event cycles

  • @Khisanth.2948 said:
    I've already completed this twice but ... it would have been much less annoying if they simply made the champions cycle instead of random. Once you get to the last one there is still a 50% chance of not getting the one you need even after following through 2 event cycles

    Yeah, RNG is a beast that needs to be used sparingly. I don't agree with having a mastery point locked behind this ... mess ...

  • Funky.4861Funky.4861 Member ✭✭✭

    Tx very much Connor. I was doing this today, was the last MP i needed and was at 4/6 before i started. It took me four hours to get the last two, whereas one person did the whole achieve in an hour and a half; the only things which stopped me from ragequitting were that i knew i would never have to do this again and that i would have maxxed my masteries.

    The champs do seem to melt rather quickly, given that the Ghost Mage was dead before i could get to it from the concert using skyscale, which took maybe 30 seconds. Other players should not be able to deny you progress; maybe make it so that if you already killed that champ, you do 20% of your normal damage to it.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The ping shows before they spawn so you have more than 30 seconds to get there however even with most people autoattacking or some people stopping entirely they still die in about a minute.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    I guess the problem will go away on its own once most of the AP chasers are done with this and it becomes mostly dead content again. Some people will still get screwed by RNG of course.

    I would have preferred they just tie a specific champs to specific event - like Rogue Prisoner + Devourer would only spawn after Ooze Pit. That way people could plan their time around knowing which events they need to complete for a chance at the champ they are missing.

    The Legendary Champs system in SW sucked, but they are still using a similar system here.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    I guess the problem will go away on its own once most of the AP chasers are done with this and it becomes mostly dead content again. Some people will still get screwed by RNG of course.

    I would have preferred they just tie a specific champs to specific event - like Rogue Prisoner + Devourer would only spawn after Ooze Pit. That way people could plan their time around knowing which events they need to complete for a chance at the champ they are missing.

    The Legendary Champs system in SW sucked, but they are still using a similar system here.

    Does it really need to be limited to one or two champ per celebration event? Why not spawn the full set. They could be used to fill the time between celebration events.

    The SW champs sucked for pretty much the same exact reason, they also depend on RNG. If they spawned after the fort reaches max defense level(maybe switch to random chance spawn after the first). Spawning a stronger enemy to take down a heavily fortified position would even make sense.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    I guess the problem will go away on its own once most of the AP chasers are done with this and it becomes mostly dead content again. Some people will still get screwed by RNG of course.

    I would have preferred they just tie a specific champs to specific event - like Rogue Prisoner + Devourer would only spawn after Ooze Pit. That way people could plan their time around knowing which events they need to complete for a chance at the champ they are missing.

    The Legendary Champs system in SW sucked, but they are still using a similar system here.

    Does it really need to be limited to one or two champ per celebration event? Why not spawn the full set. They could be used to fill the time between celebration events.

    The SW champs sucked for pretty much the same exact reason, they also depend on RNG. If they spawned after the fort reaches max defense level(maybe switch to random chance spawn after the first). Spawning a stronger enemy to take down a heavily fortified position would even make sense.

    Yeah your idea is fine too, but I suspect there was an intent of timegating this, so people couldn't get the mastery point during a single gaming session..