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Core Jalis-Shiro theorycrafting with upcoming changes.

Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited February 4, 2020 in Revenant

Link to changes here > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/96747/balance-patch-preview-global/p1

I'm looking at a few changes here.

Contained Temper (NEW): Gain fury when you disable a foe.

This trait replaces Empty Vessel.

NOW HEAR ME OUT.

Core Rev lacks one thing compared to Herald : Fury pulsing.
Due to this lack of pulsing Fury, Core Rev builds never really picked Incensed Response, instead favouring Spirit Boon or Rapid Flow.
This change may open up Incensed Response as an option for Core Revs running Jalis/Shiro because Jalis does have a very neat 1200 range Taunt and Staff can also be used to trigger it with SotM.
Offhand Sword may be hit a little, so players can also opt to choose Offhand Axe for the draw-in on Axe 5 which can also be used to trigger this trait, and by extension, Incensed Response.

Unsuspecting Strikes (NEW): Outgoing damage is increased when attacking a foe above 80% health. This damage increase is 25% in PvE and 10% in PvP/WvW.

Core Rev burst combo could be easier to achieve off the bat. This, combined with the new Minor (Destructive Impulses (NEW): Outgoing damage is increased by 5% for each currently equipped weapon) could net like, an easy 20% bonus damage to a fresh target.

Now if yu queue up yur burst combo properly, this opening burst could very well drop someone really low (boo power scaling nerfs)

Aggressive Agility (NEW): Movement skills remove immobilize.

Finally something Rev can use.

This should make Axe 4, Sword 3 and 5, Staff 5 and (maybe?) Mace 3 remove immobilize. No more getting locked down by poopy immobilizes.

And lastly, I wanna touch on Battle Scars.

There seem to be alot of support for this new Life Siphon buff in Devastation traitline which isn't strictly tied to Shiro.

Stuff like Dance of Death (NEW): Each stack vulnerability applied to a foe grants a stack of Battle Scars. Battle Scars healing amount is doubled while you are below half health. and Thrill of Combat (NEW): Grants 1 stack of Battle Scars every second while in combat. can be pretty interesting to use.

Like consider using them together with with Enchanted Daggers, swapping to Jalis Hammers and landing a Sword 3.

This could maybe pull off ALOT of siphoning while evading attacks, which could be pretty strong.

These are all theory crafts in the end.

Core rev players, please stay hyped til the day the update drops.

If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

Comments

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah I have been thinking about modifying my dumb Ventari/Shiro power build post-patch to see how it fares simply because of the synergy it has with Devastation and the Battle Scar traits. I guess a lot of it depends on what the numbers will be at this point.

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Removing empty vessel makes Invocation pretty bad.

    Prepare for the new devastation or corruption + Retribution meta. If anet goes forward with destroying empty vessel, it will be a better choice imo.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    Removing empty vessel makes Invocation pretty bad.

    Prepare for the new devastation or corruption + Retribution meta. If anet goes forward with destroying empty vessel, it will be a better choice imo.

    Retribution also having its Stability removed.
    Nothing is safe for Rev now, save running Jalis.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Incensed Responsed. You mean the one that's getting removed as well?

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    glint/mallyx with grenth rune, chill ftw, no one escapes

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭

    @ZeftheWicked.3076 said:
    Incensed Responsed. You mean the one that's getting removed as well?

    Are you sure? That wasn't in the notes, though it would be the most expected change if they update things.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020

    @Clownmug.8357 said:

    @ZeftheWicked.3076 said:
    Incensed Responsed. You mean the one that's getting removed as well?

    Are you sure? That wasn't in the notes, though it would be the most expected change if they update things.

    Yea, I went and double checked all Balance changes threads and saw no mention of Incensed Response anywhere.

    Considering Incensed Response being the single trait which is responsible for Herald Might stacking, it would be a huge deal if there was a removal or change for it mentioned anywhere.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Clownmug.8357 said:

    @ZeftheWicked.3076 said:
    Incensed Responsed. You mean the one that's getting removed as well?

    Are you sure? That wasn't in the notes, though it would be the most expected change if they update things.

    My bad, i mistook it earlier with Fierce Infusion. That's a huge relief, since without it herald may not have best time stacking personal might.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    Dance of Death (NEW): Each stack vulnerability applied to a foe grants a stack of Battle Scars. Battle Scars healing amount is doubled while you are below half health. and Thrill of Combat (NEW): Grants 1 stack of Battle Scars every second while in combat.

    RENEGADE META? ICE RAZOR ? :D POINT HOLDER? mayyybe? Now with lower dmg , summons maybe survive a few seconds

    EDIT:
    gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAwyZldQLMHaj1QasHKj9RjsAygl+l/rD-z5IWCOPA

    More likely to use Axe instead of sword

    If you consider new traits every Vulnerability will add heal from devastation or siphon or what ever....could be fine cuz on those traits is lot of weaknes and lots of Vuln
    EDIT:
    And now we have lot of Vigor from Retribution+ Renegades Brutal Momentum +Enduring Recovery(Passive Endu regen +25%)

    Jokaurene

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Link to changes here > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/96747/balance-patch-preview-global/p1

    I'm looking at a few changes here.

    Contained Temper (NEW): Gain fury when you disable a foe.

    This trait replaces Empty Vessel.

    NOW HEAR ME OUT.

    Core Rev lacks one thing compared to Herald : Fury pulsing.
    Due to this lack of pulsing Fury, Core Rev builds never really picked Incensed Response, instead favouring Spirit Boon or Rapid Flow.
    This change may open up Incensed Response as an option for Core Revs running Jalis/Shiro because Jalis does have a very neat 1200 range Taunt and Staff can also be used to trigger it with SotM.
    Offhand Sword may be hit a little, so players can also opt to choose Offhand Axe for the draw-in on Axe 5 which can also be used to trigger this trait, and in extension, ** Incensed Response**.

    Unsuspecting Strikes (NEW): Outgoing damage is increased when attacking a foe above 80% health. This damage increase is 25% in PvE and 10% in PvP/WvW.

    Core Rev burst combo could be easier to achieve off the bat. This, combined with the new Minor (Destructive Impulses (NEW): Outgoing damage is increased by 5% for each currently equipped weapon) could net like, an easy 20% bonus damage to a fresh target.

    Now if yu queue up yur burst combo properly, this opening burst could very well drop someone really low (boo power scaling nerfs)

    Aggressive Agility (NEW): Movement skills remove immobilize.

    Finally something Rev can use.

    This should make Axe 4, Sword 3 and 5, Staff 5 and (maybe?) Mace 3 remove immobilize. No more getting locked down by poopy immobilizes.

    And lastly, I wanna touch on Battle Scars.

    There seem to be alot of support for this new Life Siphon buff in Devastation traitline which isn't strictly tied to Shiro.

    Stuff like Dance of Death (NEW): Each stack vulnerability applied to a foe grants a stack of Battle Scars. Battle Scars healing amount is doubled while you are below half health. and Thrill of Combat (NEW): Grants 1 stack of Battle Scars every second while in combat. can be pretty interesting to use.

    Like consider using them together with with Enchanted Daggers, swapping to Jalis Hammers and landing a Sword 3.

    This could maybe pull off ALOT of siphoning while evading attacks, which could be pretty strong.

    These are all theory crafts in the end.

    Core rev players, please stay hyped til the day the update drops.

    I love threads like this. I, myself, am a big theorycrafter.
    I think this sounds pretty Pog. Although they're nerfing some might gen and uptime, I do like the changes made to other trait lines.
    My question is this: what role will this fulfill? From looking at Jalis and Shiro, is it going to be more of a spikey duelist?

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZeftheWicked.3076 said:
    Incensed Responsed. You mean the one that's getting removed as well?

    I didn't see anything in the notes that says Incensed Response is getting removed.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    @Catchyfx.5768 said:
    Dance of Death (NEW): Each stack vulnerability applied to a foe grants a stack of Battle Scars. Battle Scars healing amount is doubled while you are below half health. and Thrill of Combat (NEW): Grants 1 stack of Battle Scars every second while in combat.

    RENEGADE META? ICE RAZOR ? :D POINT HOLDER? mayyybe? Now with lower dmg , summons maybe survive a few seconds

    EDIT:
    gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAwyZldQLMHaj1QasHKj9RjsAygl+l/rD-z5IWCOPA

    More likely to use Axe instead of sword

    If you consider new traits every Vulnerability will add heal from devastation or siphon or what ever....could be fine cuz on those traits is lot of weaknes and lots of Vuln
    EDIT:
    And now we have lot of Vigor from Retribution+ Renegades Brutal Momentum +Enduring Recovery(Passive Endu regen +25%)

    Oh yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to that Icerazor synergy. If battle scars deal a decent amount of damage I'm thinking it could make up for the loss of Rampant Vex in my wvw build.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    I love threads like this. I, myself, am a big theorycrafter.
    I think this sounds pretty Pog. Although they're nerfing some might gen and uptime, I do like the changes made to other trait lines.
    My question is this: what role will this fulfill? From looking at Jalis and Shiro, is it going to be more of a spikey duelist?

    Highly likely a +1 on the same vein as current Power Herald.

    What Core Rev has which Herald doesn't though, is the ability to replenish energy and have special buffs based on Legend currently attuned to.

    This make things like Jalis and Shiro Elites less punishing to use, because at a press of a button, yu have an instant refill of 25 energy at yur disposal.

    This will also be the one thing Core has over Herald because when Shiro nerf drops, Heralds which use Riposting Shadows run risk of going dry, while Core can refill their energy to follow up.

    Also since Core can run 3 Core traitlines, they get to have more build flexibility, rather than have one Espec locking them out of certain trait options in favour of flavour and special skills.

    I feel that Revenant is the only Profession that is in a position where Core and both Especs are all similar but significantly different when it comes to building and playstyle because of what is available and what isn't.

    This should really be done for other professions, so that their build options for Core builds become extremely flexible, while Especs are there to focus the profession into a certain role/playstyle.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Renegade is going to be the sleeping giant. You know what they didn't touch? Soulcleave Summit.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phokus.8934 said:
    Renegade is going to be the sleeping giant. You know what they didn't touch? Soulcleave Summit.

    Definitely gonna be super strong for on point combat.

    Funny isn't it?

    Kalla, the Legendary Renegade.
    Gureilla Warfare tactics against the Flame Legion.

    Invoked by Revenants to become a camper.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • if they fix citadel bombardment to be better then an embarrassing mistake and buff razorclaw then I would consider renegade.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Catchyfx.5768 said:
    Dance of Death (NEW): Each stack vulnerability applied to a foe grants a stack of Battle Scars. Battle Scars healing amount is doubled while you are below half health. and Thrill of Combat (NEW): Grants 1 stack of Battle Scars every second while in combat.

    RENEGADE META? ICE RAZOR ? :D POINT HOLDER? mayyybe? Now with lower dmg , summons maybe survive a few seconds

    EDIT:
    gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAwyZldQLMHaj1QasHKj9RjsAygl+l/rD-z5IWCOPA

    More likely to use Axe instead of sword

    If you consider new traits every Vulnerability will add heal from devastation or siphon or what ever....could be fine cuz on those traits is lot of weaknes and lots of Vuln
    EDIT:
    And now we have lot of Vigor from Retribution+ Renegades Brutal Momentum +Enduring Recovery(Passive Endu regen +25%)

    I'd forgotten Icerazor applied vulnerability. That does make for a potentially interesting synergy. It does mean that you're really doubling down on the healing-through-lifestealing concept at the cost of spike healing, particularly since Breakrazor's Bastion was one of two Rev heals that are getting reduced, but with power damage being reduced across the board you might not need it. Keeping conditions off with such a build might be challenging, though. On the other hand, shortbow is looking like it's received less nerfs than most weapons, so shortbow might become a little more viable in comparison.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2020

    Exactly,

    with this set up you can pump lots of vuln = heals and weakness= doesnt get hit that hard = live longer.
    Kalla
    Aoe Heal if get hit hard
    Ice razor dmg/heals
    Aoe Daze = weakness= less pDamage you get
    Elite skill for more heals
    Jalis
    Stability +hammers

    And Thanks to retribution Lots of Endurance recovery via trait and vigor+while vigor up less dmg you get
    Interesting, but it depends on what builds other classes will come up with.
    could be good camper

    Jokaurene

  • I'm running a cele renegade in pvp right now and it holds up pretty well. Lots of synergy with mad king or sanctuary runes. This update only makes it stronger. Jalis is super strong and less access to stun break makes the stab that much more important. I'll prob switch out staff for sw/axe and try out devastation instead of invocation.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2020

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    I'm running a cele renegade in pvp right now and it holds up pretty well. Lots of synergy with mad king or sanctuary runes. This update only makes it stronger. Jalis is super strong and less access to stun break makes the stab that much more important. I'll prob switch out staff for sw/axe and try out devastation instead of invocation.

    Invocation still full of strong stuff which Rev wants, even if the Stunbreak on swap is removed.

    Question is whether yur Build already has alot of Boons and buffs (like Herald) that yu can do without Invocation.

    New Invocation traits do look interesting though.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.