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Balance Patch Preview - WvW


Cal Cohen.2358

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@Deniara Devious.3948 said:Almost every single warrior build is using greatsword (GS) and this has been the case for many years. This balance patch won't change this, since forceful greatsword is so amazing trait it simply outshines anything else warrior has and has great trait synergy. Shield will remain as the most popular offhand. If you want better balance between warrior weapons, something needs to be done. Either enhance the least used weapons e.g. longbow projectiles are super slow (make them faster) and return adrenaline gain to warhorn. Or alternatively tone down greatsword related traits.

I expect that you'll see more rifle warriors post patch, particularly even more rifle Berserkers since Gunflame isn't being gutted like other hard CC.

GS is fairly balanced and is used more or less because of a vacuum of options.

Want warriors to use more weapons? Well the damage on Mace/Mace and Hammer is being gutted, so no dice. Longbow is okay but fires a bit too slow for most people's comfort. Sword gets used, but not really for damage purposes. Axe sees use, but it's burst doesn't cleave so its usefulness is limited. OH Ax is useful for the quickness and cleave, but with Defense being gutted Shield has become MORE needed. OH sword is for RP and needs a rework. Warhorn got a great update and sees a fair amount of use now.

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@EmeraldNight.4307 said:this patch won't save wvw because the problem with wvw is not class imbalance, but lack of new content and making old players leave/ new players refuse to join is. This game mode is still dying, Anet need to make some new content to attract new players instead of tweaking existed content to please the old players that already on the battle field. We already liked what we have now, that's why we are still here.

Wrong, it gets tired really fast playing and loosing due to OP and imbalanced classes. It would be good to have new maps and some content for wvw but the main problem is the huge difference from one class to another almost forcing people to play that OP class or gtfo.

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@miguelsil.6324 said:

@EmeraldNight.4307 said:this patch won't save wvw because the problem with wvw is not class imbalance, but lack of new content and making old players leave/ new players refuse to join is. This game mode is still dying, Anet need to make some new content to attract new players instead of tweaking existed content to please the old players that already on the battle field. We already liked what we have now, that's why we are still here.

Wrong, it gets tired really fast playing and loosing due to OP and imbalanced classes. It would be good to have new maps and some content for wvw but the main problem is the huge difference from one class to another almost forcing people to play that OP class or gtfo.

@EmeraldNight.4307 is not wrong. And you @miguelsil.6324 aren't either. OP classes should be addresses AND the concept behind wvw should be completetly reworked. This patch does nothing to the conceptual problems of wvw. OP classes aren't barely touched too, and on top of that classes, which are even now mostly excluded from wvw groups, got significantly nerfed, like e.g. the Soulbeast, which unique class ability gets cut in half and one part simply deleted.

This is a horrible patch, which has nothing to do with "balance" and I can't reject the feeling, that the sole purpose of this patch is to force the players into rebuilding their loved chars or create new ones and to do so selling more gems (for new slots for templates or turning them into gold to buy new items).

This patch should not go live.

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I'm wonder how I'm supposed to swap between PVE and WvW now. All of the skills will function differently, so there's no lateral transition between tactics.

Does Anet expect us to completely reprogram our muscle memory every time we want to head to WvW?

This. I almost prefer them to apply all these changes to PvE as well. PvE people complaining content is too easy, give them the 30% hit as well and then lets re-look at some of the new content. I am not saying this from the don't go their route, but yes a lot of WvWers don't switch build when they exit WvW.

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Hi A-net... I really hope you're reading this

IMHO the source of the power creep are masteries, which are way more insidious and their impact is more difficult to track.This way certain builds feel OP. You're cutting some hydra's heads... I suggest revising the meta core masteries more in detail. Particularly necro and guardian.

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@Cal Cohen.2358With this widespread rebalancing, I think it's important to look into the WvW Banners and their numbers (all of it) - especially Dragon Banner. I hope this doesn't get drown in by all the other posts because as it stands, the numbers are already quite OP on those but with the new upcoming balance it will be atrociously OP :# In a perfect scenario, I'd love them all removed personally but I know that's not the reality as we've had to endure their existence since HoT but they absolutely are in dire need of rebalancing with this patch! Please don't forget them.

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@arkinia.6952 said:Welp, time to move on to a different game. Fun while it lasted.

i heard fortknight hitbox are uber trash u dont need to have good good aim either, maybe that game can carry u.

Sorry i can only joke with coments like this :}, they are kinda reseting to improve skills over time decently they are doing a iteration process that the game never had.

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@Jski.6180 said:

@"apharma.3741" said:The difference is now you can't spam your cleanses and it'll be OK. Cleanse Tempest will still heal well and provide great AoE cleansing power.

If you have problems with conditions in the new meta it's probably you or the guy next to you that's playing badly and got too used to spamming skills and winning because that's how the game has been for the last 5 boring, tooth pulling years of expansion power creep.

TLDR: git gud scrubs.

Alot of players that are getting carried with the current "meta gimick" will cry so hard... i just fear they all will try to play full tank useless stacking group.

Players need to understand they will have to bet more stats in the outcame of their build rather than be allrounder overperformancing the players skils.

Direct damage will still exist... i dont know where most are QQ. :\

That they are trying to balance cc "gimick" with dmg something comply out side of the counter play to cc. All self stab is getting nerfed and support stab is now stronger then what a player can give to them self.

That and anet lied just updating numbers is NOT realty looking at 500 ish skills its more just doing a genal dmg % update something that could of been dont by updating dmg taken by players.

It will not exist sadly condi will be the only effect that will work after the update unless they nerf it just as hard BUT they also need to update def / hp of the base classes as well.

Anet is updating every thing the same they are not doing the fine tuning they need to do to fix the balancing. They need to update the game more then just simply messing with the numbers there needs to be real effects added and removed to fix balancing in wvw. That is how you fix your "meta gimick" no number update will fix that.

They cant look at each skill individually(they need to put every one in same plane of action), better reset everything, and make players bet more for stats for roles with the changes, if u want power bet more for power stats, want healing bet more for healing stats, want boon duration well... minstrel but u will do less damage, zergs on minstrel with perma might and fury can kill with the current system due how easy is to achieve power creep momentum, with the changes they will loose that power to kill a bit, while they m8 get on hard CD before they can kill something, which is good players have to bet stats more.

Overtime i bet some CC skills and others will have its damage/heal/beffect halved to become more acepted skills, they wont just have modifiers that hit 8k+ 15k(sometimes more) like we have now, but with those changes people will still be able to hit 4-6k some skill will continue to hit over 8k for sure.I'm confuse how the block system will work :scream: but its interesting, cause its like if by "block barrier" its stronger u will only destroy a layer, although i am confused to see how that works with WoR and alikes.

People wil have to try diferent compositions with diferent stats, alot of people are getting carried with the current system, game needs to become more personal and group skilled rather than aoe gimicks.

Bomb from stealth every one can do it.... and we all know how bad stealth system works.

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@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@Senqu.8054 said:Please ANet, dont remove the second Dodge from Mirage. Mirage is the only reason i Play gw2 from time to time. Since you killed chrono there was Not very much left for me but if you really make this change bouth elite specs from mesmer gain a penalty if taken. I feel like This is totally wrong. Why should i get punished for just playing a class i bought with my money. I cant See this anywhere Else. no other class gets facepunshed like mesmer. Its like you want to make the gameplay as much unconfortable as possible so People will finally quit This Game. I have more than 3000h playtime and i played it with 2 Dodges and now its to op for Mesmer. In my opinion, in special this change, shows how good your understanding about This Game is. You have to remove your own mechanics from your Game what a joke.

Right now while reading this patch notes im ashamed that i have ever recommendet this Game to my friends and i feel like i have to refund them because they bought it. i cant find the words for my anger but if you bring this change i will quit and Never come back.

Mirage is enough reason to stop in the first placeITs powerspec is macro's by alotITs condiform is disgustingly passiveAnd its dodges are Just like litterally the Opposite as they should (you can channel skills, stunbreak and safestomp from a dodge which no other class can...)

ITs been reason enough for other people to stop allready

Stop QQ and learn the game

Man for real what is your problem that you have to directly insult me, but yeah sure Complaining about getting base mechanics removed from your class is totally to much. This Game will lose Players weather or not with these changes and people like you so who cares anyways right?Look i dont say there are no problems with Mirage but if you base a class around dodging and skills that can only be used then, this just kills it. They want us to use drop/pick items to create this effect. Yeah we know how much the players love drop/pick items since a lot complained about them and with the beginning of hot even more.

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@miguelsil.6324 said:Wrong, it gets tired really fast playing and loosing due to OP and imbalanced classes. It would be good to have new maps and some content for wvw but the main problem is the huge difference from one class to another almost forcing people to play that OP class or gtfo.

The problem with your comment is that there's not only 1 OP class that everyone need to play it or gtfo, but multiple classes that has different roles in the squad and you can pick one of your favorite freely. You want to do dps? play rev, scourge, tempest or dps SB, you want to play support? play FB, scrapper or support warrior. And this is only for zergling, not to mention that you can also roaming/ havoc with a lot of other builds that you pleased with maximum freedom.Many haters described wvw like there's one super OP class with one super OP build, and you only need to press W and 1 and then you can insta kill enemies, and people has been forced to play it, which is very not true.

More also, this patch is not aiming to get better balance for wvw, like @wunderkind.9752 said this patch is more to force people change their build/ play style, and more importantly, finally those who don't understand to dodge the first bomb will not die instantly anymore in the beginning of the fight and they must be pleased with this patch.

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@Aeolus.3615 said:

@"apharma.3741" said:The difference is now you can't spam your cleanses and it'll be OK. Cleanse Tempest will still heal well and provide great AoE cleansing power.

If you have problems with conditions in the new meta it's probably you or the guy next to you that's playing badly and got too used to spamming skills and winning because that's how the game has been for the last 5 boring, tooth pulling years of expansion power creep.

TLDR: git gud scrubs.

Alot of players that are getting carried with the current "meta gimick" will cry so hard... i just fear they all will try to play full tank useless stacking group.

Players need to understand they will have to bet more stats in the outcame of their build rather than be allrounder overperformancing the players skils.

Direct damage will still exist... i dont know where most are QQ. :\

That they are trying to balance cc "gimick" with dmg something comply out side of the counter play to cc. All self stab is getting nerfed and support stab is now stronger then what a player can give to them self.

That and anet lied just updating numbers is NOT realty looking at 500 ish skills its more just doing a genal dmg % update something that could of been dont by updating dmg taken by players.

It will not exist sadly condi will be the only effect that will work after the update unless they nerf it just as hard BUT they also need to update def / hp of the base classes as well.

Anet is updating every thing the same they are not doing the fine tuning they need to do to fix the balancing. They need to update the game more then just simply messing with the numbers there needs to be real effects added and removed to fix balancing in wvw. That is how you fix your "meta gimick" no number update will fix that.

They cant look at each skill individually(they need to put every one in same plane of action), better reset everything, and make players bet more for stats for roles with the changes, if u want power bet more for power stats, want healing bet more for healing stats, want boon duration well... minstrel but u will do less damage, zergs on minstrel with perma might and fury can kill with the current system due how easy is to achieve power creep momentum, with the changes they will loose that power to kill a bit, while they m8 get on hard CD before they can kill something, which is good players have to bet stats more.

Overtime i bet some CC skills and others will have its damage/heal/beffect halved to become more acepted skills, they wont just have modifiers that hit 8k+ 15k(sometimes more) like we have now, but with those changes people will still be able to hit 4-6k some skill will continue to hit over 8k for sure.I'm confuse how the block system will work :scream: but its interesting, cause its like if by "block barrier" its stronger u will only destroy a layer, although i am confused to see how that works with WoR and alikes.

People wil have to try diferent compositions with diferent stats, alot of people are getting carried with the current system, game needs to become more personal and group skilled rather than aoe gimicks.

Bomb from stealth every one can do it.... and we all know how bad stealth system works.

I realty think a "when in wvw buff" would of did a lot more then updating what skills they did. Or at least tested what it would be like. This feels like a bad ideal that will only end with us waiting for the next update to fix all of the problems this one will make.

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I'm still parsing this instead of posting a kneejerk reaction that some people love to do.

Why do people think condis are going to be absurd? Elixir gun , Super elixir cleanse, and purge gyro were not changed nor was guardian mantra of lore (Opening Passage) or resolve virtue (Absolute Resolution) let alone pulsing resistance on tome 3. There's also warrior warhorn + Shake it Off , as well as scourge condi clear from sand shades (Nefarious Favor , but also Abrasive Grit if the meta is all condi). The condi conversion on tome 2's Eternal Oasis was overpowering given its other effects so nobody should be surprised it was cut to 2. Firebrand tome 2 was cut down a bit in terms of cleansing on Radiant Recovery as well. Burning is the only condition damage worthy of note (because cleansing is worthless if burn is reapplied constantly) and that has been largely shaved down (i.e. Burning Precision , Dhuumfire , Mantra of Flame+Justice Tome , Crack Shot on warrior , King of Fires on berserkers, Incendiary Powder on engineers). Permeating Wrath hasn't been mentioned however.

My first impression is that the boon removal has largely been shifted to spellbreakers' break enchantments since necromancers' well of corruption needs to tick. Engineers' mine kit seems to accomplish what necromancer scepter does when traited, so scrapper will likely remain dominant in some form or another.

As far as pure damage goes it looks like Vault daredevil will be very strong once again. Rev hammer CoR is still buggy with respect to aiming, Phase Smash will still be decent ranged damage. The pulsing boons from herald will completely counter any low boon removal since they reapply every 3s on 10 people with Draconic Echo ; Incensed Response will negate most of the reductions for power rev since you'll still push 3300-3500 power. Lava Font received very little reduction, so Staff Ele is probably going to be the choice for ranged damage on CCed targets.

I don't see many sources of stability at all. Revenants running dwarf, guardians running Stand your ground , firebrands lost some on the tome (Unflinching Charge: Reduced stability from 2 to 1 second), mesmers will unlikely be run just for mantras proving stability : it's more likely superspeed from tempests' "Eye of the storm" /scrappers will be used.

Ranger will likely remained sidelined for most comped groups because scrapper will remain dominant.

Spellbreaker, Firebrand/Guardian, hammer Scrapper, staff Weaver, Herald, Daredevil, Scourge look like they will still work while ranger remains a roaming class and mesmer is likely in dire situation unless core mesmer. Even core mesmer will need serious help because without burst it doesn't really work well. "Mirage Cloak: This trait now reduces the mirage's endurance by 50 in competitive modes" is a death sentence unless you run Jaunt at a minimum.

Anything that relies on high burst is probably not likely to survive after this patch, whether it is core power shatter mesmer, scepter elementalist of any kind (esp. with the nerf to focus' Obsidian Flesh),

If it's a comprehensive note, there should be consideration of removing damage from warclaw battle maul on people that are not downed.In addition, food/utility and keep bonuses should be considered for reduction to make bloodlust more attractive as a WvW cap.

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YOU CANT BALANCE A GAME WITH THIS COMPLEXITY!If you take a look about all the classes with specs the different weapons and the 1000 treat points with all a lot of attributes impacting each other, its quite impossible to balance this. Nor its possible as a casual(still intensive) player to get all of this in mind especially in fight.You can tweak here and there but finally you get allways some op builds and annoy the one or the other classe-player.I know a lot of the player like this to combine their "unique" build and trying to get the best out of it. But under the hood most play finally a meta build cause they got lost in this jungle of combinations and trust some "pros" with their builds. Best is to find a median of complexity vs playing a class by skill. The less the complexity of skill combinations the more you get real competetive balanced game where skill is more relevant, as you can see in other competetiv games. As long the above doesnt change its the best arenanet can do like this balancing tries but i dont beleive you will ever get a near balanced PVP.

CHEATING!If I can trust several independant developer I discussed with. It is quite easy to create cheats/hacks for GW2 cause there is not a good check against hacks of the GW2-Client. And if I play PVP, in every single game I think this must be a hacker(Ja, Ja I know Im a noob). But you can just start a short google and you will find pages/hacks. I HATE CHEATING! This is the first thing arenanet should invest to prevent it. No need for a balance if there are a lot of cheater.

PVP MATCHMAKING (BOTS?)!It is horrible and one of the worst I saw compared to other competetive games. In a lot of games it feels I play with bots or my team mates are rly so bad. The next games I got such op teams where I can just do some auto attacks to win.

Before you think about balancing the above have to be fixed. I quit PVP in GW2 so far btw. and play other games for it.

PVP CONTENT!I like to capture points... but rly we need some more disciples like a capture the flag or a moba map (would be greate to play a league of leagends with gw2 classes) or destroy the enemy town or what ever.And there should be a 2v2 3v3 4v4 5v5 (But this will be a much bigger challange to balance)

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@Malavian.4695 said:Frankly, there are so many changes I'm overwhelmed. I can't tell if this is good or bad or mitzo-matzo. The 0.01 multiplier is hard for me to wrap my head around. Does that mean it will still do base weapon damage on a hit?

A simplified way of looking at this is everything is taking a 30% hit across the board. Anything that is both a damage dealing and a CC is now mostly just a CC. Cooldowns will be longer and boons/cleanses are reduced in duration. Condi durations are reduced as well. Translation everyone should last a bit longer in a fight. If you were weak against class x before and strong against class y, that will remain the same for now but both should should last a bit longer. There is another thread that also has adjustments to some trait lines that were under performing but that's not in this thread. Once everything is reduced they can measure things out and then they have room to adjust from there over/underperforming abilities.

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@"SnowHawk.3615" said:What a joke.

here's another joke that will continue after the patch(as always, not attacking Thief Profession players but attacking Thief Profession Toxic design)

-no amount of 'nerfing' will fix this profession until it is completely redesigned -

In Fact, the next upcoming patch will force them to use their conditions more

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@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"SnowHawk.3615" said:What a joke.

here's another joke that will continue after the patch(as always, not attacking Thief Profession players but attacking Thief Profession Toxic design)

-no amount of 'nerfing' will fix this profession until it is completely redesigned -

In Fact, the next upcoming patch will force them to use their conditions more

I take it you haven’t actually watched the video...

Lmao..

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