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Increase swipe to 900 range (and you're awesome).


WillPaharu.4837

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The game is a blast and you just keep making it better. Anyway. 600 range is shorter range than all of a daredevils ranged attacks like pistol and short bow. To have swipe be shorter range than a short bow is not intuitive. Having swipe match the range of other skills will be a balanced improvement . While we are on the topic. With all the changes making builds less spammy, I think we should increase the cool down of smokescreen to 40-45 seconds versus the even slighter purposed increase in the upcoming patch.

I really love what you're doing and where things are going with this next balance patch!

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Calling Swipe underpowered is like ignoring the fact that all Daredevils can:

  • Steal 3 Boons
  • Interrupt
  • Unblockable
  • Instant castWhich easily makes it one of bigger and most advantageous skill to win any fights because the moment you see someone use a heal skill, you can deny it right away.
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@Shao.7236 said:Calling Swipe underpowered is like ignoring the fact that all Daredevils can:

  • Steal 3 Boons
  • Interrupt
  • Unblockable
  • Instant castWhich easily makes it one of bigger and most advantageous skill to win any fights because the moment you see someone use a heal skill, you can deny it right away.

That Swipe is supposed to be a drawback for getting a third dodge roll, but they also gave swipe unblockable so it's massively and consistently more useful than steal in 90% of situations due to being an instant cast way to cancel block stances just goes to show just how faulty this idea of Drawbacks for elite specializations has been handled.

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@WillPaharu.4837 said:The game is a blast and you just keep making it better. Anyway. 600 range is shorter range than all of a daredevils ranged attacks like pistol and short bow. To have swipe be shorter range than a short bow is not intuitive. Having swipe match the range of other skills will be a balanced improvement . While we are on the topic. With all the changes making builds less spammy, I think we should increase the cool down of smokescreen to 40-45 seconds versus the even slighter purposed increase in the upcoming patch.

I really love what you're doing and where things are going with this next balance patch!Are you new to the game?

Swipe replaced steal on daredevil just 9 months ago as a drawback which every elite spec is meant to have to not become a flat upgrade to the core class mechanic. Even though it isn't really a drawback because it has a lower range but is also stronger (unblockable) than steal.

It won't be reverted.

Btw.: Dash (the most used and most viable daredevil dodge in the competitive modes) has a travel distance of 450 units. And you have 3 of them and a lot of endurance regeneration utility on daredevil. Now think a little further... how could you compensate the lower range?!

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@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:Nah.

Daredevil gains a good portion of evasiveness that doesnt depend on stealth, so the 600 range swipe is tolerable. It pushes them more toward that brawler role thief players have been pining for.Especially because it interrupts channeled blocks.

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:Nah.

Daredevil gains a good portion of evasiveness that doesnt depend on stealth, so the 600 range swipe is tolerable. It pushes them more toward that brawler role thief players have been pining for.Especially because it interrupts channeled blocks.

It doesnt. Brawlers want to be able to get in as soon as possible, which is what the old Steal was for, while Swipe would be better for cheesy oneshot builds that usually get close enough even without steal. Also interrupting channeled block is meh since you should never waste it on channeled block (instead of literally any good skill that you cant wait for).

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Calling Swipe underpowered is like ignoring the fact that all Daredevils can:
  • Steal 3 Boons
  • Interrupt
  • Unblockable
  • Instant castWhich easily makes it one of bigger and most advantageous skill to win any fights because the moment you see someone use a heal skill, you can deny it right away.

That Swipe is supposed to be a drawback for getting a third dodge roll, but they also gave swipe unblockable so it's massively and consistently more useful than steal in 90% of situations due to being an instant cast way to cancel block stances just goes to show just how faulty this idea of Drawbacks for elite specializations has been handled.

@Shao.7236 said:Calling Swipe underpowered is like ignoring the fact that all Daredevils can:
  • Steal 3 Boons
  • Interrupt
  • Unblockable
  • Instant castWhich easily makes it one of bigger and most advantageous skill to win any fights because the moment you see someone use a heal skill, you can deny it right away.

That Swipe is supposed to be a drawback for getting a third dodge roll, but they also gave swipe unblockable so it's massively and consistently more useful than steal in 90% of situations due to being an instant cast way to cancel block stances just goes to show just how faulty this idea of Drawbacks for elite specializations has been handled.

Nah, Steal was better than Swipe in 90% situations because 1200 range matters a lot more than the ability to interrupt channeled blocks (mainly due to the fact that wasting your interrupt on channeled blocks means you dont have interrupts for heal skills, or literally any powerful skill you really want to interrupt, which meant you ideally almost never interrupted channeled blocks). In fact, thats why Swipe was so bad and Daredevil straight up vanished from viability until they had to buff its Cooldown just to make people pick DD again (which is the only reason Swipe is on par with steal now).

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Calling Swipe underpowered is like ignoring the fact that all Daredevils can:
  • Steal 3 Boons
  • Interrupt
  • Unblockable
  • Instant castWhich easily makes it one of bigger and most advantageous skill to win any fights because the moment you see someone use a heal skill, you can deny it right away.

That Swipe is supposed to be a drawback for getting a third dodge roll, but they also gave swipe unblockable so it's massively and consistently more useful than steal in 90% of situations due to being an instant cast way to cancel block stances just goes to show just how faulty this idea of Drawbacks for elite specializations has been handled.

@Shao.7236 said:Calling Swipe underpowered is like ignoring the fact that all Daredevils can:
  • Steal 3 Boons
  • Interrupt
  • Unblockable
  • Instant castWhich easily makes it one of bigger and most advantageous skill to win any fights because the moment you see someone use a heal skill, you can deny it right away.

That Swipe is supposed to be a drawback for getting a third dodge roll, but they also gave swipe unblockable so it's massively and consistently more useful than steal in 90% of situations due to being an instant cast way to cancel block stances just goes to show just how faulty this idea of Drawbacks for elite specializations has been handled.

Nah, Steal was better than Swipe in 90% situations because 1200 range matters a lot more than the ability to interrupt channeled blocks (mainly due to the fact that wasting your interrupt on channeled blocks means you dont have interrupts for heal skills, or literally any powerful skill you really want to interrupt, which meant you ideally almost
never
interrupted channeled blocks). In fact, thats why Swipe was so bad and Daredevil straight up vanished from viability until they had to buff its Cooldown just to make people pick DD again (which is the only reason Swipe is on par with steal now).

You're really underestimating the ability to interrupt a defensive rotation or things like Shelter or Aegis that can ruin important opportunities.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

Daredevil gains a good portion of evasiveness that doesnt depend on stealth, so the 600 range swipe is tolerable. It pushes them more toward that brawler role thief players have been pining for.Especially because it interrupts channeled blocks.

Daredevil gains a good portion of evasiveness that doesnt depend on stealth, so the 600 range swipe is tolerable. It pushes them more toward that brawler role thief players have been pining for.Especially because it interrupts channeled blocks.

It doesnt. Brawlers want to be able to get in as soon as possible, which is what the old Steal was for, while Swipe would be better for cheesy oneshot builds that usually get close enough even without steal. Also interrupting channeled block is meh since you should never waste it on channeled block (instead of literally any good skill that you cant wait for).

Since the Daredevil rework we've seen one degenerate build after another clog up ranked first Condition SD to Staff+Staff to Pistol Whip. Now we're only seeing core thieves again because the Shadow Arts rework and the poison life steal trait allowed for a more degenerate build to exist; perma stealth one shot DP.

The 5 second cooldown on swipe was not make or break. Thieves just kneejerk rebelled despite the Daredevil rework making the trait line significantly more powerful by compressing traits so you can get everything good in the specialization with out the previous hard choices, and of course unblockable swipe.

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@Shao.7236 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Calling Swipe underpowered is like ignoring the fact that all Daredevils can:
  • Steal 3 Boons
  • Interrupt
  • Unblockable
  • Instant castWhich easily makes it one of bigger and most advantageous skill to win any fights because the moment you see someone use a heal skill, you can deny it right away.

That Swipe is supposed to be a drawback for getting a third dodge roll, but they also gave swipe unblockable so it's massively and consistently more useful than steal in 90% of situations due to being an instant cast way to cancel block stances just goes to show just how faulty this idea of Drawbacks for elite specializations has been handled.

@Shao.7236 said:Calling Swipe underpowered is like ignoring the fact that all Daredevils can:
  • Steal 3 Boons
  • Interrupt
  • Unblockable
  • Instant castWhich easily makes it one of bigger and most advantageous skill to win any fights because the moment you see someone use a heal skill, you can deny it right away.

That Swipe is supposed to be a drawback for getting a third dodge roll, but they also gave swipe unblockable so it's massively and consistently more useful than steal in 90% of situations due to being an instant cast way to cancel block stances just goes to show just how faulty this idea of Drawbacks for elite specializations has been handled.

Nah, Steal was better than Swipe in 90% situations because 1200 range matters a lot more than the ability to interrupt channeled blocks (mainly due to the fact that wasting your interrupt on channeled blocks means you dont have interrupts for heal skills, or literally any powerful skill you really want to interrupt, which meant you ideally almost
never
interrupted channeled blocks). In fact, thats why Swipe was so bad and Daredevil straight up vanished from viability until they had to buff its Cooldown just to make people pick DD again (which is the only reason Swipe is on par with steal now).

You're really underestimating the ability to interrupt a defensive rotation or things like Shelter or Aegis that can ruin important opportunities.

Shelter is not being run currently by any guardian build. It would be the one good target if it were (and if Guardian builds running it were common enough for it to be relevant enough), but its not, so yeah. As for Aegis, Swipe being unblockable actually does literally nothing for that. Because every thief runs Trickery, and in Trickery every thief runs Bountiful Theft, which makes your steal, well, steal 3 boons, which it does before applying damage or any other effects. And the boons stolen are not chosen at random, but rather using a priority list, with 3 boons having the highest priority, meaning that if the target has any of these 3 boons (or all of them), they are guaranteed to be stolen. Aegis is one of those 3 boons. Its always stolen, so unblockable does nothing.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

Daredevil gains a good portion of evasiveness that doesnt depend on stealth, so the 600 range swipe is tolerable. It pushes them more toward that brawler role thief players have been pining for.Especially because it interrupts channeled blocks.

Daredevil gains a good portion of evasiveness that doesnt depend on stealth, so the 600 range swipe is tolerable. It pushes them more toward that brawler role thief players have been pining for.Especially because it interrupts channeled blocks.

It doesnt. Brawlers want to be able to get in as soon as possible, which is what the old Steal was for, while Swipe would be better for cheesy oneshot builds that usually get close enough even without steal. Also interrupting channeled block is meh since you should never waste it on channeled block (instead of literally any good skill that you cant wait for).

Since the Daredevil rework we've seen one degenerate build after another clog up ranked first Condition SD to Staff+Staff to Pistol Whip. Now we're only seeing core thieves again because the Shadow Arts rework and the poison life steal trait allowed for a more degenerate build to exist; perma stealth one shot DP.

The 5 second cooldown on swipe was not make or break. Thieves just kneejerk rebelled despite the Daredevil rework making the trait line significantly more powerful by compressing traits so you can get everything good in the specialization with out the previous hard choices, and of course unblockable swipe.

Interesting that you think Condition builds came to be because of the Daredevil rework, rather than Deadly Ambition. And uh, yeah, it came from Deadly Ambition, which was 2 months later, and in those 2 months, Daredevil didnt exist. For that matter, even afterwards, typically the best thief build was core, usually Core S/D. As it was for the years prior, ever since Pulmonary Impact was (apparently literally) overnerfed. Daredevil became even worse after the Swipe change, since steal drastically reduced its power, Daredevil D/P, once the staple thief build, ceased to exist alltogether (though it was also bad due to the previously mentioned overnerf of Pulmonary Impact).

The 5 second cooldown absolutely was make or break. Why do you think every build you mentioned either came from a buff to a different traitline (condi S/D), or after the Swipe cooldown reduction? Also, there really werent any "previous hard choices" that got freed up. There wouldve been if Pulmonary Impact was still worth building around, but as mentioned before, its not. And again, Swipe being unblockable is completely irrelevant.

Also, just as a final note, The current D/P build is neither Permastealth, nor is it "oneshot". Unless you want to call 8k damage in an ideal situation on the squishiest enemy a "oneshot". Its a burst build, but thats kinda what thief was once supposed to do.

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@UNOwen.7132That's a great exception to the rule that Thief shouldn't be able to do, but I can already hear the complains about suggesting a fix anyway.

I use Shelter often as a Guardian because Litany of Wrath is quite overrated compared the other things you can do with 2 seconds block and also with:

  • Litany of Wrath: Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 30 seconds

I see even more reasons to use it now, glad I was already getting good at it beforehand.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

Daredevil gains a good portion of evasiveness that doesnt depend on stealth, so the 600 range swipe is tolerable. It pushes them more toward that brawler role thief players have been pining for.Especially because it interrupts channeled blocks.

Daredevil gains a good portion of evasiveness that doesnt depend on stealth, so the 600 range swipe is tolerable. It pushes them more toward that brawler role thief players have been pining for.Especially because it interrupts channeled blocks.

It doesnt. Brawlers want to be able to get in as soon as possible, which is what the old Steal was for, while Swipe would be better for cheesy oneshot builds that usually get close enough even without steal. Also interrupting channeled block is meh since you should never waste it on channeled block (instead of literally any good skill that you cant wait for).

Since the Daredevil rework we've seen one degenerate build after another clog up ranked first Condition SD to Staff+Staff to Pistol Whip. Now we're only seeing core thieves again because the Shadow Arts rework and the poison life steal trait allowed for a more degenerate build to exist; perma stealth one shot DP.

The 5 second cooldown on swipe was not make or break. Thieves just kneejerk rebelled despite the Daredevil rework making the trait line significantly more powerful by compressing traits so you can get everything good in the specialization with out the previous hard choices, and of course unblockable swipe.

^ This, mostly. I agree that some degenerate builds existed, and that people continuing to be upset about swipe range might be mistaken (although out of the gate that range cut was a lot to adjust to.), I disagree about the "everything good is selectable now" bit. There's still some variation in the line and keep in mind the grandmaster is basically giving you your elite mechanic, so some compression was warranted there. Also the condition S/D prevalence was due to Deadly arts fixes that underestimated how quickly thieves could stack poison, not Daredevil.

Swipe def. isn't a problem though. Especially if you are crazy enough to not run bountiful theft.

@UNOwen.7132 said:Shelter is not being run currently by any guardian build. It would be the one good target if it were (and if Guardian builds running it were common enough for it to be relevant enough), but its not, so yeah. As for Aegis, Swipe being unblockable actually does literally nothing for that. Because every thief runs Trickery, and in Trickery every thief runs Bountiful Theft, which makes your steal, well, steal 3 boons, which it does before applying damage or any other effects. And the boons stolen are not chosen at random, but rather using a priority list, with 3 boons having the highest priority, meaning that if the target has any of these 3 boons (or all of them), they are guaranteed to be stolen. Aegis is one of those 3 boons. Its always stolen, so unblockable does nothing.

Speaking of.I run trickster instead of bountiful theft.The above is right. Bountiful theft is better in most situations, but for classes that want to block you to wait for cds. It's really effective. Mes Scepter, Engie shield block, Ranger GS block, Staff herald, and shield stance warrior show up pretty often in the meta.Especially if it's warrior/spellbreaker. you slot absorption and, if they don't have retal or swiftness blocking basically means they forfeit all their might.

@"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:People when the 600 range nerf hit "kitten why nerf something that isnt broken"People when someone asks for the nerf to be reversed "nah thief doesnt deserve buffs, nerf thief more"...

This is of note though. The swipe change is alright. 600 range reduction is reasonable for the unblockable, and the range keeps you from making builds that can blow people up from 1200 units. It doesn't need to be nerfed or buffed.

@UNOwen.7132 said:It doesnt. Brawlers want to be able to get in as soon as possible, which is what the old Steal was for, while Swipe would be better for cheesy oneshot builds that usually get close enough even without steal. Also interrupting channeled block is meh since you should never waste it on channeled block (instead of literally any good skill that you cant wait for).

It absolutely does though. And Swipe enhances that.

You can afford to spend it on channeled block to force a decision under pressure. The cooldown gets partially reset on evade if you run acrobatics(and carry a sword) and I carry pistol offhand, so I can interrupt heals as long as you're not backed by stab or aegis (because still gonna be playing sword pistol after this nerf. Call me a degenerate build player if you wannt~)

Your opponent having to choose what to do now that their block is reset usually results in them wasting another utility to get you off them.you -can- use swipe for oneshot/glass builds, but its better suited for immediately turning off blocks people expect to cover them, especially because with swipe you cant just show up out of nowhere by using terrain to hide yourself, you will almost always need to burn stealth resources to drop on someone.

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@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Daredevil gains a good portion of evasiveness that doesnt depend on stealth, so the 600 range swipe is tolerable. It pushes them more toward that brawler role thief players have been pining for.Especially because it interrupts channeled blocks.

Daredevil gains a good portion of evasiveness that doesnt depend on stealth, so the 600 range swipe is tolerable. It pushes them more toward that brawler role thief players have been pining for.Especially because it interrupts channeled blocks.

It doesnt. Brawlers want to be able to get in as soon as possible, which is what the old Steal was for, while Swipe would be better for cheesy oneshot builds that usually get close enough even without steal. Also interrupting channeled block is meh since you should never waste it on channeled block (instead of literally any good skill that you cant wait for).

Since the Daredevil rework we've seen one degenerate build after another clog up ranked first Condition SD to Staff+Staff to Pistol Whip. Now we're only seeing core thieves again because the Shadow Arts rework and the poison life steal trait allowed for a more degenerate build to exist; perma stealth one shot DP.

The 5 second cooldown on swipe was not make or break. Thieves just kneejerk rebelled despite the Daredevil rework making the trait line significantly more powerful by compressing traits so you can get everything good in the specialization with out the previous hard choices, and of course unblockable swipe.

^ This, mostly. I agree that some degenerate builds existed, and that people continuing to be upset about swipe range might be mistaken (although out of the gate that range cut was a lot to adjust to.), I disagree about the "everything good is selectable now" bit. There's still some variation in the line and keep in mind the grandmaster is basically giving you your elite mechanic, so some compression was warranted there.

Swipe def. isn't a problem though. Especially if you are crazy enough to not run bountiful theft.

@UNOwen.7132 said:Shelter is not being run currently by any guardian build. It would be the one good target if it were (and if Guardian builds running it were common enough for it to be relevant enough), but its not, so yeah. As for Aegis, Swipe being unblockable actually does
literally
nothing for that. Because every thief runs Trickery, and in Trickery every thief runs Bountiful Theft, which makes your steal, well, steal 3 boons, which it does before applying damage or any other effects. And the boons stolen are not chosen at random, but rather using a priority list, with 3 boons having the highest priority, meaning that if the target has any of these 3 boons (or all of them), they are guaranteed to be stolen. Aegis is one of those 3 boons. Its always stolen, so unblockable does nothing.

Speaking of.I run trickster instead of bountiful theft.The above is right. Bountiful theft is better in most situations, but for classes that want to block you to wait for cds. It's really effective. Mes Scepter, Engie shield block, Ranger GS block, Staff herald, and shield stance warrior show up pretty often in the meta.Especially if it's warrior/spellbreaker. you slot absorption and, if they don't have retal or swiftness blocking basically means they forfeit all their might.

Actually, in those cases is exactly where its a trap. If theyre waiting for cooldowns, that means that those cooldowns are pretty important. So, interrupting their block means that while you reduced the invul time they have to wait for cooldowns by, lets say, 2 seconds, you wasted your only tool of dealing with those upcoming cooldowns. And youre usually not going to be able to kill them in those 2 seconds. They will get their cooldowns, and you will curse yourself for the foolishness of not holding back your swipe for them.

@"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:People when the 600 range nerf hit "kitten why nerf something that isnt broken"People when someone asks for the nerf to be reversed "nah thief doesnt deserve buffs, nerf thief more"...

This is of note though. The swipe change is alright. 600 range reduction is reasonable for the unblockable, and the range keeps you from making builds that can blow people up from 1200 units. It doesn't need to be nerfed or buffed.

@UNOwen.7132 said:It doesnt. Brawlers want to be able to get in as soon as possible, which is what the old Steal was for, while Swipe would be better for cheesy oneshot builds that usually get close enough even without steal. Also interrupting channeled block is meh since you should never waste it on channeled block (instead of literally any good skill that you cant wait for).

It absolutely does though.

You can afford to spend it on channeled block to force a decision under pressure.. the cooldown gets partially reset on evade if you run acrobatics(and carry a sword) and I carry pistol offhand, so I can interrupt heals as long as you're not backed by stab or aegis (because still gonna be playing sword pistol after this nerf.)

Your opponent having to choose what to do now that their block is reset usually results in them wasting another utility to get you off them.you can use swipe for oneshot builds, but its better suited for immediately turning off blocks people expect to cover them.

You really cant. Ignoring for a second that there is only one Daredevil build that can even use the trait youre referring to (which came to be half a year later after Swipe was created), it only reduces the cooldown by 25%. Youre still not going to have it ready. And the problem with using headshot for interrupts is that it means a major damage loss, especially if you dont run Pulmonary Impact. And even if you do, since Pulmonary Impact was overnerfed, its still a major damage loss. In fact, you lose more damage from that than you gain from the 2 seconds of block you remove, especially since you have to keep up initiative to even have the option.

No, it really doesnt. A smart opponent will realise that you just wasted your most powerful tool in the arsenal, and that youre basically shields down. They will go on the counter-offensive, abusing the fact that you wont be able to stop their most powerful cooldowns without putting yourself at a further disadvantage. Swipe is extremely poorly suited for turning off blocks, because its got too long of a cooldown to be able to use it for that and have it up in time for the cooldowns you need to stop. Optimally, steal is used for engaging, or interrupting important cooldowns. Swipe is incapable of doing the former, so its use cases is relegated to the latter. Its a worse steal. Or was, then its cooldown got reduced.

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@Shao.7236 said:@UNOwen.7132That's a great exception to the rule that Thief shouldn't be able to do, but I can already hear the complains about suggesting a fix anyway.

I use Shelter often as a Guardian because Litany of Wrath is quite overrated compared the other things you can do with 2 seconds block and also with:

  • Litany of Wrath: Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 30 seconds

I see even more reasons to use it now, glad I was already getting good at it beforehand.

You mean, Ripping Aegis as priority? No thats not an exception, thats actually the rule. Typically damage dealing abilities with additional effects that rip boons will rip Aegis at high priority. Phantasmal Disenchanter, Dune Cloak and a bunch of others. The only ones that dont rip Aegis as a priority, are the ones that dont rip Aegis at all, which are the ones that are unblockable, like Breaching Strike, Larcenous Strike, Banish Enchantment and Throw Mine.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:You really cant. Ignoring for a second that there is only one Daredevil build that can even use the trait youre referring to (which came to be half a year later after Swipe was created)-

Don't assume I play meta builds. I don't.

-it only reduces the cooldown by 25%. You're still not going to have it ready. And the problem with using headshot for interrupts is that it means a major damage loss, especially if you dont run Pulmonary Impact-

75% of 25 is 18.75. That's faster than most blocks recharge. it also gets another reduction in 10 seconds. I'll have it ready.

And even if you do, since Pulmonary Impact was overnerfed, its still a major damage loss. In fact, you lose more damage from that than you gain from the 2 seconds of block you remove, especially since you have to keep up initiative to even have the option.

Pulm. impact was overnerfed, yes. Headshot Thieves were a problem before, so I understand why. Interrupts are for setups, not for doing damage on their own.It's also not "two seconds of block" that I'm removing. Not only is that skill going on full recharge, it's also forcing them to pick another option since I'm in their face that isn't "wait for cooldowns or wait to use the skill I get for blocking". Panic selections are really good to force.

No, it really doesnt. A smart opponent will realise that you just wasted your most powerful tool in the arsenal, and that youre basically shields down. They will go on the counter-offensive, abusing the fact that you wont be able to stop their most powerful cooldowns without putting yourself at a further disadvantage. Swipe is extremely poorly suited for turning off blocks, because its got too long of a cooldown to be able to use it for that and have it up in time for the cooldowns you need to stop. Optimally, steal is used for engaging, or interrupting important cooldowns. Swipe is incapable of doing the former, so its use cases is relegated to the latter. Its a worse steal. Or was, then its cooldown got reduced.

Like I said, I run sword/pistol. I'm hardly shields down after Swipe.I'm not going to ramble too much about builds though. You saw what Sindrener did. You're free to make your own conclusion about that.You'd be surprised how much you can lean into brawler.

@Shao.7236 said:@UNOwen.7132 It still goes against the purpose of what it's meant to be, it's extremely bad design as the skill already being instant cast is a big but necessary feature, it doesn't need to be that strong.

Elaborate. Because:

@Shao.7236 said:That's a great exception to the rule that Thief shouldn't be able to do, but I can already hear the complains about suggesting a fix anyway.

I use Shelter often as a Guardian because Litany of Wrath is quite overrated compared the other things you can do with 2 seconds block and also with:

  • Litany of Wrath: Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 30 seconds

I see even more reasons to use it now, glad I was already getting good at it beforehand.

Did you see what they're doing to Test of Faith?Core Guardians might have a problem running shelter vs Daredevils, but Dragonhunters still hard counter them.

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