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Gear concern due to patch and some suggestions


Swagger.1459

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@Cyninja.2954 said:making permanent changes to the game based on singular events is a very short sighted approach.

This doesn't seem to go through your head @"Swagger.1459" . Yes this balance patch will cause a disruption in builds which will make people need equipment, which will be somewhat inconvenient for some players, in particular those who are poor in-game. Is that enough of a reason to "reconsider" the end-game item acquisition and overturn a delicate game economy and considerably lowering the sense of progression (ie. gearing up) for players old and new on a PERMANENT basis? I really don't think so.

You're making a big deal over something that is NOT a big deal. It just isn't, not for anyone who actually plays or plans to play this game. Before we had legendary armor, all WvW'ers tested (and some still do) their builds with badge exotics to see if stuff would work. Anyone can play just fine with exotics. Exotics are EASY TO GET. Once the build is tested and settled on exotics people then invest in flipping current ascended gear. Or get new ascended. Start saving now.

And yes you have 400 gearsets and a million leggies, nobody cares, we're not talking about you. I don't want new players to feel like there's nothing to strive for or accomplish in this game just because they're handed everything on a silver platter.

A month or 2 after the patch this is, once again, going to be an absolute non-issue, but I already typed all this so.... Post Comment.

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@Mordayn.6198 said:

@"Swagger.1459" said:You peeps have to consider that players may need, or have a desire, to change gears given the vastness of the patch. It’s not “cheap” to transmute gear sets and various trinkets cannot be transmuted. WvW infusions cannot be transmuted at all.

Overall I like the gearing up system, but it could use a review. Especially in the transmutation area, and especially with the changes starting to roll in over time.

For trinkets, there are 2 sets you can get that are stat changeable:

For back piece:

(Or go with a legendary of which there are 3 in the game. One from WvW one from Spvp, and one from Fractals.)

Armor is really any ascended gear that you get for free as drop boxes or you can craft them.

I’m fully aware of what gear can be transmuted. There are gears that cannot be transmuted, that cost game resources to make or purchase, that players posses...

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@Strages.2950 said:

making permanent changes to the game based on singular events is a very short sighted approach
.

This doesn't seem to go through your head @"Swagger.1459" . Yes this balance patch will cause a disruption in builds which will make people need equipment, which will be somewhat inconvenient for some players, in particular those who are poor in-game. Is that enough of a reason to "reconsider" the end-game item acquisition and overturn a delicate game economy and considerably lowering the sense of progression (ie. gearing up) for players old and new on a PERMANENT basis? I really don't think so.

You're making a big deal over something that is NOT a big deal. It just isn't, not for anyone who actually plays or plans to play this game. Before we had legendary armor, all WvW'ers tested (and some still do) their builds with badge exotics to see if stuff would work. Anyone can play just fine with exotics. Exotics are EASY TO GET. Once the build is tested and settled on exotics people then invest in flipping current ascended gear. Or get new ascended. Start saving now.

And yes you have 400 gearsets and a million leggies, nobody cares, we're not talking about you. I don't want new players to feel like there's nothing to strive for or accomplish in this game just because they're handed everything on a silver platter.

A month or 2 after the patch this is, once again, going to be an absolute non-issue, but I already typed all this so.... Post Comment.

This is not a light change coming. This isn’t the last of the changes, it’s only a start. This patch stuff + reworks coming + changes to runes and sigils coming + more coming...

Some gear you cannot transmute. Some gear you can. Some gear will cost player more resources to change, bc the devs are going to be making changes... Acquiring and transmuting gear should be looked at given the nature of the massive changes to profession starting soon and in the future.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:@Swagger.1459 I think players in general will complain, just as you are now, about every little thing. Some of those complaints should be taken seriously, but some would directly damage the game. Itemization, both from scratch as well as stat changing, is very very very generous and short in this game compared to any other competitor in the same genre.

Even if a big balance patch, which is a rare occurrence in this size and scope, is likely forcing some change on players gear does not necessarily require a permanent change to this already very generous system. On the contrary, making permanent changes to the game based on singular events is a very short sighted approach.

For reference, to change 1 item (armor or weapon) in stats you need:

That amounts to a total cost of less than 5-6 gold, plus the insignia/inscription (if we even assume a value for the spirit shards, given how many players do not convert all their shards). For a best in slot item.

Trinkets are a dime a dozen and get made easier and easier to acquire, most recently the amulet which takes maybe 10 minutes of play on the new Bjora Marches map to acquire the resources required. For people who want to change stats on those there is even slightly more expensive options which can have stats changed.

A final issue on this: any more convenience and legendary items become completely unnecessary since ascended gear would mirror their unique benefit. Multiple ascended sets already outperform legendary gear in the cosmetic department. This is something which would as well damage the longevity of the game.

EDIT: and yes, I did read your entire post the first time. I just did not feel the need to go into detail, once again, on a what I still believe is just another variation of the typical: I want stuff faster, complaints.

First off, I have 400+ pieces of ascended gear. I have full raid leg armor. I have leg back piece. I have all but 1 legendary trinket. I have 18 leg weapons... So it’s not productive to assume “I want stuff faster”, when I already have a ton of stuff and can get or craft more stuff easily.

Second, that’s 1 piece of gear, now add up the costs to changing 1 full gear set of armor and weapons and trinkets... now add up the costs to having multiple sets on multiple characters... Now factor in some back pieces and trinkets cannot be transmuted that cost time and resources to acquire. Now wvw infusions... Go ahead and add up all the various costs for different scenarios, not just pull 1 piece of gear into the equation.

Gl!

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:@Swagger.1459 I think players in general will complain, just as you are now, about every little thing. Some of those complaints should be taken seriously, but some would directly damage the game. Itemization, both from scratch as well as stat changing, is very very very generous and short in this game compared to any other competitor in the same genre.

Even if a big balance patch, which is a rare occurrence in this size and scope, is likely forcing some change on players gear does not necessarily require a permanent change to this already very generous system. On the contrary,
making permanent changes to the game based on singular events is a very short sighted approach
.

For reference, to change 1 item (armor or weapon) in stats you need:

That amounts to a total cost of less than 5-6 gold, plus the insignia/inscription (if we even assume a value for the spirit shards, given how many players do not convert all their shards). For a best in slot item.

Trinkets are a dime a dozen and get made easier and easier to acquire, most recently the amulet which takes maybe 10 minutes of play on the new Bjora Marches map to acquire the resources required. For people who want to change stats on those there is even slightly more expensive options which can have stats changed.

A final issue on this: any more convenience and legendary items become completely unnecessary since ascended gear would mirror their unique benefit. Multiple ascended sets already outperform legendary gear in the cosmetic department. This is something which would as well damage the longevity of the game.

EDIT: and yes, I did read your entire post the first time. I just did not feel the need to go into detail, once again, on a what I still believe is just another variation of the typical: I want stuff faster, complaints.

First off, I have 400+ pieces of ascended gear. I have full raid leg armor. I have leg back piece. I have all but 1 legendary trinket. I have 18 leg weapons... So it’s not productive to assume “I want stuff faster”, when I already have a ton of stuff and can get or craft more stuff easily.

Want me to start counting up my leggies and ascended? I guarantee it's far more than yours. That's beside the point though when arguing against a change which can potentially affect the game in a negative way based on a singular event.

I am not arguing based on my personal standing or wealth in the game. I am trying to look at the bigger picture and how this games design works and peforms in comparison to the market.

@Swagger.1459 said:Second, that’s 1 piece of gear, now add up the costs to changing 1 full gear set of armor and weapons and trinkets... now add up the costs to having multiple sets on multiple characters... Now factor in some back pieces and trinkets cannot be transmuted that cost time and resources to acquire. Now wvw infusions... Go ahead and add up all the various costs for different scenarios, not just pull 1 piece of gear into the equation.

Gl!

Wvw infusions can be removed with the 26 silver infusion extraction item, that is without getting into the fact that WvW infusions are way to cheap for what they provide, 5 laurels, really? Longterm WvW players are swimming in tickets too.

Yes, can amount to a few hundred gold IF you have enough sets to upgrade. Which automatically tells me the player is more veteran, which in turn tells me they either are wealthy enough or capable of burdening such cost (if even applicable since many will wait for others to develop new builds) or especially in need of goals.

Just imagine how much fun it would be to have everything up and ready within hours of such a groundbreaking balance change... not much at all I would assume.

Sorry, my answers remains:Longterm changes based on singular events are unhealthy for the game.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:@Swagger.1459 I think players in general will complain, just as you are now, about every little thing. Some of those complaints should be taken seriously, but some would directly damage the game. Itemization, both from scratch as well as stat changing, is very very very generous and short in this game compared to any other competitor in the same genre.

Even if a big balance patch, which is a rare occurrence in this size and scope, is likely forcing some change on players gear does not necessarily require a permanent change to this already very generous system. On the contrary,
making permanent changes to the game based on singular events is a very short sighted approach
.

For reference, to change 1 item (armor or weapon) in stats you need:

That amounts to a total cost of less than 5-6 gold, plus the insignia/inscription (if we even assume a value for the spirit shards, given how many players do not convert all their shards). For a best in slot item.

Trinkets are a dime a dozen and get made easier and easier to acquire, most recently the amulet which takes maybe 10 minutes of play on the new Bjora Marches map to acquire the resources required. For people who want to change stats on those there is even slightly more expensive options which can have stats changed.

A final issue on this: any more convenience and legendary items become completely unnecessary since ascended gear would mirror their unique benefit. Multiple ascended sets already outperform legendary gear in the cosmetic department. This is something which would as well damage the longevity of the game.

EDIT: and yes, I did read your entire post the first time. I just did not feel the need to go into detail, once again, on a what I still believe is just another variation of the typical: I want stuff faster, complaints.

First off, I have 400+ pieces of ascended gear. I have full raid leg armor. I have leg back piece. I have all but 1 legendary trinket. I have 18 leg weapons... So it’s not productive to assume “I want stuff faster”, when I already have a ton of stuff and can get or craft more stuff easily.

Want me to start counting up my leggies and ascended? I guarantee it's far more than yours. That's beside the point though when arguing against a change which can potentially affect the game in a negative way based on a singular event.

I am not arguing based on my personal standing or wealth in the game. I am trying to look at the bigger picture and how this games design works and peforms in comparison to the market.

@Swagger.1459 said:Second, that’s 1 piece of gear, now add up the costs to changing 1 full gear set of armor and weapons and trinkets... now add up the costs to having multiple sets on multiple characters... Now factor in some back pieces and trinkets cannot be transmuted that cost time and resources to acquire. Now wvw infusions... Go ahead and add up all the various costs for different scenarios, not just pull 1 piece of gear into the equation.

Gl!

Wvw infusions can be removed with the 26 silver infusion extraction item, that is without getting into the fact that WvW infusions are way to cheap for what they provide, 5 laurels, really? Longterm WvW players are swimming in tickets too.

Yes, can amount to a few hundred gold IF you have enough sets to upgrade. Which automatically tells me the player is more veteran, which in turn tells me they either are wealthy enough or capable of burdening such cost (if even applicable since many will wait for others to develop new builds) or especially in need of goals.

Just imagine how much fun it would be to have everything up and ready within hours of such a groundbreaking balance change... not much at all I would assume.

Sorry, my answers remains:
Longterm changes based on singular events are unhealthy for the game.

You need to add up the total costs, but you keep avoiding that and missing basic facts.

Here, I'll be extra helpful...

To stat sway 6 pieces of ascended armor and, let's say, 5 weapons, the total cost is as follows...

Armors...

  • 1 Original ascended armor, 1 Master insignia for the desired stats, 5 Glob of Ectoplasm, 1 Anthology of Heroes... X 6 = 6 Master insignia, 30 Globs of Ectos and 60 Spirit Shards...

Weapons...

  • 1 Original ascended weapon, 1 Orichalcum Imbued Inscription for the desired stats, 5 Glob of Ectoplasm, 1 Anthology of Heroes... X 5 = 5 Orichalcum Imbued Inscription, 25 Glob of Ectoplasm, 50 Spirit Shards.

Trinkets...

  • Player also bought 5 Laurel trinkets for 180 laurels that dropped opver a 3 month period of daily log-ins.

Back Piece...

  • Player also crafted a non-transmutable ascended back piece...

WvW Infusions-

5 laurels each x 22 is 110 spirit shards

… So player needs to spend 220 spirit shards to transmute and rebuy infusions. They have to rebuy trinkets and back piece. That's just 1 set of gear in this scenario. Now multiply that if there are more gear sets on characters...

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:@Swagger.1459 I think players in general will complain, just as you are now, about every little thing. Some of those complaints should be taken seriously, but some would directly damage the game. Itemization, both from scratch as well as stat changing, is very very very generous and short in this game compared to any other competitor in the same genre.

Even if a big balance patch, which is a rare occurrence in this size and scope, is likely forcing some change on players gear does not necessarily require a permanent change to this already very generous system. On the contrary,
making permanent changes to the game based on singular events is a very short sighted approach
.

For reference, to change 1 item (armor or weapon) in stats you need:

That amounts to a total cost of less than 5-6 gold, plus the insignia/inscription (if we even assume a value for the spirit shards, given how many players do not convert all their shards). For a best in slot item.

Trinkets are a dime a dozen and get made easier and easier to acquire, most recently the amulet which takes maybe 10 minutes of play on the new Bjora Marches map to acquire the resources required. For people who want to change stats on those there is even slightly more expensive options which can have stats changed.

A final issue on this: any more convenience and legendary items become completely unnecessary since ascended gear would mirror their unique benefit. Multiple ascended sets already outperform legendary gear in the cosmetic department. This is something which would as well damage the longevity of the game.

EDIT: and yes, I did read your entire post the first time. I just did not feel the need to go into detail, once again, on a what I still believe is just another variation of the typical: I want stuff faster, complaints.

First off, I have 400+ pieces of ascended gear. I have full raid leg armor. I have leg back piece. I have all but 1 legendary trinket. I have 18 leg weapons... So it’s not productive to assume “I want stuff faster”, when I already have a ton of stuff and can get or craft more stuff easily.

Want me to start counting up my leggies and ascended? I guarantee it's far more than yours. That's beside the point though when arguing against a change which can potentially affect the game in a negative way based on a singular event.

I am not arguing based on my personal standing or wealth in the game. I am trying to look at the bigger picture and how this games design works and peforms in comparison to the market.

@Swagger.1459 said:Second, that’s 1 piece of gear, now add up the costs to changing 1 full gear set of armor and weapons and trinkets... now add up the costs to having multiple sets on multiple characters... Now factor in some back pieces and trinkets cannot be transmuted that cost time and resources to acquire. Now wvw infusions... Go ahead and add up all the various costs for different scenarios, not just pull 1 piece of gear into the equation.

Gl!

Wvw infusions can be removed with the 26 silver infusion extraction item, that is without getting into the fact that WvW infusions are way to cheap for what they provide, 5 laurels, really? Longterm WvW players are swimming in tickets too.

Yes, can amount to a few hundred gold IF you have enough sets to upgrade. Which automatically tells me the player is more veteran, which in turn tells me they either are wealthy enough or capable of burdening such cost (if even applicable since many will wait for others to develop new builds) or especially in need of goals.

Just imagine how much fun it would be to have everything up and ready within hours of such a groundbreaking balance change... not much at all I would assume.

Sorry, my answers remains:
Longterm changes based on singular events are unhealthy for the game.

You need to add up the total costs, but you keep avoiding that and missing basic facts.

Here, I'll be extra helpful...

To stat sway 6 pieces of ascended armor and, let's say, 5 weapons, the total cost is as follows...

Armors...
  • 1 Original ascended armor, 1 Master insignia for the desired stats, 5 Glob of Ectoplasm, 1 Anthology of Heroes... X 6 = 6 Master insignia, 30 Globs of Ectos and 60 Spirit Shards...

Which comes out to how much? 60 gold? How long does that take to farm? 4 hours? 5? For Best in Slot end game gear which you do not have to change ever again, until the next huge balance patch in 2 years?

You could make it 200 gold, it would still be to cheap by industry standards.

This is one of those typical player ideas which is absolutely hazardous to the longevity of the game. Case in point: look what the even easier access to ascended amulets via the last episode has done? That slot is essentially now absolutely USELESS from an itemization perspective game design wise. Without even taking into account the effect on the market, or longevity of season 4 maps (which can be currency converted). Your idea is short sighted at best, at worst it is intentionally damaging to the game.

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:@Swagger.1459 I think players in general will complain, just as you are now, about every little thing. Some of those complaints should be taken seriously, but some would directly damage the game. Itemization, both from scratch as well as stat changing, is very very very generous and short in this game compared to any other competitor in the same genre.

Even if a big balance patch, which is a rare occurrence in this size and scope, is likely forcing some change on players gear does not necessarily require a permanent change to this already very generous system. On the contrary,
making permanent changes to the game based on singular events is a very short sighted approach
.

For reference, to change 1 item (armor or weapon) in stats you need:

That amounts to a total cost of less than 5-6 gold, plus the insignia/inscription (if we even assume a value for the spirit shards, given how many players do not convert all their shards). For a best in slot item.

Trinkets are a dime a dozen and get made easier and easier to acquire, most recently the amulet which takes maybe 10 minutes of play on the new Bjora Marches map to acquire the resources required. For people who want to change stats on those there is even slightly more expensive options which can have stats changed.

A final issue on this: any more convenience and legendary items become completely unnecessary since ascended gear would mirror their unique benefit. Multiple ascended sets already outperform legendary gear in the cosmetic department. This is something which would as well damage the longevity of the game.

EDIT: and yes, I did read your entire post the first time. I just did not feel the need to go into detail, once again, on a what I still believe is just another variation of the typical: I want stuff faster, complaints.

First off, I have 400+ pieces of ascended gear. I have full raid leg armor. I have leg back piece. I have all but 1 legendary trinket. I have 18 leg weapons... So it’s not productive to assume “I want stuff faster”, when I already have a ton of stuff and can get or craft more stuff easily.

Want me to start counting up my leggies and ascended? I guarantee it's far more than yours. That's beside the point though when arguing against a change which can potentially affect the game in a negative way based on a singular event.

I am not arguing based on my personal standing or wealth in the game. I am trying to look at the bigger picture and how this games design works and peforms in comparison to the market.

@Swagger.1459 said:Second, that’s 1 piece of gear, now add up the costs to changing 1 full gear set of armor and weapons and trinkets... now add up the costs to having multiple sets on multiple characters... Now factor in some back pieces and trinkets cannot be transmuted that cost time and resources to acquire. Now wvw infusions... Go ahead and add up all the various costs for different scenarios, not just pull 1 piece of gear into the equation.

Gl!

Wvw infusions can be removed with the 26 silver infusion extraction item, that is without getting into the fact that WvW infusions are way to cheap for what they provide, 5 laurels, really? Longterm WvW players are swimming in tickets too.

Yes, can amount to a few hundred gold IF you have enough sets to upgrade. Which automatically tells me the player is more veteran, which in turn tells me they either are wealthy enough or capable of burdening such cost (if even applicable since many will wait for others to develop new builds) or especially in need of goals.

Just imagine how much fun it would be to have everything up and ready within hours of such a groundbreaking balance change... not much at all I would assume.

Sorry, my answers remains:
Longterm changes based on singular events are unhealthy for the game.

You need to add up the total costs, but you keep avoiding that and missing basic facts.

Here, I'll be extra helpful...

To stat sway 6 pieces of ascended armor and, let's say, 5 weapons, the total cost is as follows...

Armors...
  • 1 Original ascended armor, 1 Master insignia for the desired stats, 5 Glob of Ectoplasm, 1 Anthology of Heroes... X 6 = 6 Master insignia, 30 Globs of Ectos and 60 Spirit Shards...

Which comes out to how much? 60 gold? How long does that take to farm? 4 hours? 5? For Best in Slot end game gear which you do not have to change ever again, until the next huge balance patch in 2 years?

You could make it 200 gold, it would still be to cheap by industry standards.

This is one of those typical player ideas which is absolutely hazardous to the longevity of the game. Case in point: look what the even easier access to ascended amulets via the last episode has done? That slot is essentially now absolutely USELESS from an itemization perspective game design wise.

Read the edited version before you reply

Increases the total cost to now maybe 80 gold?

You are missing the entire point of why your suggestion is bad (or maybe you are not but just being stubborn because you keep repeating yourself) and by now are just arguing for arguments sake. I have clearly explained how itemization in this game is already the fastest in the market, and how this causes issues. You can continue on your quest of being right for being rights sake, I'm not going to get caught up in nonsensical details.

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@"Cyninja.2954"

I've had problems editing...

"You need to add up the total costs, but you keep avoiding that and missing basic facts.

Here, I'll be extra helpful...

To stat swap 6 pieces of ascended armor and, let's say, 5 weapons, the total cost is as follows...

Armors...

  • 1 Original ascended armor, 1 Master insignia for the desired stats, 5 Glob of Ectoplasm, 1 Anthology of Heroes... X 6 = 6 Master insignia, 30 Globs of Ectos and 60 Spirit Shards...

Weapons...

  • 1 Original ascended weapon, 1 Orichalcum Imbued Inscription for the desired stats, 5 Glob of Ectoplasm, 1 Anthology of Heroes... X 5 = 5 Orichalcum Imbued Inscription, 25 Glob of Ectoplasm, 50 Spirit Shards.

Trinkets...

  • Player also bought 5 Laurel trinkets for 180 laurels that dropped over a 3 month period of daily log-ins.

Back Piece...

  • Player also crafted a non-transmutable ascended back piece...

WvW Infusions-

  • 5 laurels each x 22 is 110 spirit shards

… So player needs to spend 220 spirit shards to transmute and rebuy infusions. They have to rebuy or recraft trinkets and back piece. That's just 1 set of gear in this scenario. Now multiply that if there are more gear sets on characters..."

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@"Swagger.1459" Hahaha, this may surprise you, but I actually highly agree with you. This is one thing I was trying to point out in the past, years ago and was basically met with the same conflict. The beauty of WvW should be to actually enjoy spending more time playing the game, far less about farming in order to play it and around it.

  • The longer we spend farming for builds... The less time we spend truly playing them; much less WvW.

The more characters we play (meaning more builds to play/test), the bigger the grind. What I would like people to understand is that this isn't about how "easy" you obtained your first build for even say "3" of your most played characters. It's about experimenting to find what we like to play the most... While battling against "balance patches" that can easily hinder the any sense of progression we've made across all of our "x" amount of builds/characters. And Legendary shouldn't even be an excuse... It's called "Legendary" for a reason.

Personally, I would prefer if there was a vendor and say we pay like 10-20 gold for access to an armor set (like Clerics, Dire, Berserker's etc.) and after that it just freely (again, after initial payment) gives us exotic armor (and maybe ascended (slightly higher price)) unlocked for our account that is non-salvageable, limited to WvW and account bound (everything to make it fair and stop the crying over "my legendary that I chose to invest into"). So, once we have it unlocked... We have it ready to go to experiment with in WvW and can play the fucking game. Same goes for runes, sigils and maybe food; have a vendor for each of those. We still "earn" everything, but we lose the any sense of needing to regrind (aka repeat an already earned progression) and can just play the fucking game after initially earning something.

  • Also, we have PvP that pretty overall ignores the economy when it comes to buying gear. And I'm sure they have gold they spend on other things left over, I know... I was there. Got nerfed or become bored and wanna try something new? No problem! Just throw it on and fight. Though, I guess farming is still more important these days apparently.

In conclusion, the game is suppose to be about progression...Not "re"-progression due to multiple failures to create more stable balance. Have a nice day :)

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:@Swagger.1459 I think players in general will complain, just as you are now, about every little thing. Some of those complaints should be taken seriously, but some would directly damage the game. Itemization, both from scratch as well as stat changing, is very very very generous and short in this game compared to any other competitor in the same genre.

Even if a big balance patch, which is a rare occurrence in this size and scope, is likely forcing some change on players gear does not necessarily require a permanent change to this already very generous system. On the contrary,
making permanent changes to the game based on singular events is a very short sighted approach
.

For reference, to change 1 item (armor or weapon) in stats you need:

That amounts to a total cost of less than 5-6 gold, plus the insignia/inscription (if we even assume a value for the spirit shards, given how many players do not convert all their shards). For a best in slot item.

Trinkets are a dime a dozen and get made easier and easier to acquire, most recently the amulet which takes maybe 10 minutes of play on the new Bjora Marches map to acquire the resources required. For people who want to change stats on those there is even slightly more expensive options which can have stats changed.

A final issue on this: any more convenience and legendary items become completely unnecessary since ascended gear would mirror their unique benefit. Multiple ascended sets already outperform legendary gear in the cosmetic department. This is something which would as well damage the longevity of the game.

EDIT: and yes, I did read your entire post the first time. I just did not feel the need to go into detail, once again, on a what I still believe is just another variation of the typical: I want stuff faster, complaints.

First off, I have 400+ pieces of ascended gear. I have full raid leg armor. I have leg back piece. I have all but 1 legendary trinket. I have 18 leg weapons... So it’s not productive to assume “I want stuff faster”, when I already have a ton of stuff and can get or craft more stuff easily.

Want me to start counting up my leggies and ascended? I guarantee it's far more than yours. That's beside the point though when arguing against a change which can potentially affect the game in a negative way based on a singular event.

I am not arguing based on my personal standing or wealth in the game. I am trying to look at the bigger picture and how this games design works and peforms in comparison to the market.

@Swagger.1459 said:Second, that’s 1 piece of gear, now add up the costs to changing 1 full gear set of armor and weapons and trinkets... now add up the costs to having multiple sets on multiple characters... Now factor in some back pieces and trinkets cannot be transmuted that cost time and resources to acquire. Now wvw infusions... Go ahead and add up all the various costs for different scenarios, not just pull 1 piece of gear into the equation.

Gl!

Wvw infusions can be removed with the 26 silver infusion extraction item, that is without getting into the fact that WvW infusions are way to cheap for what they provide, 5 laurels, really? Longterm WvW players are swimming in tickets too.

Yes, can amount to a few hundred gold IF you have enough sets to upgrade. Which automatically tells me the player is more veteran, which in turn tells me they either are wealthy enough or capable of burdening such cost (if even applicable since many will wait for others to develop new builds) or especially in need of goals.

Just imagine how much fun it would be to have everything up and ready within hours of such a groundbreaking balance change... not much at all I would assume.

Sorry, my answers remains:
Longterm changes based on singular events are unhealthy for the game.

You need to add up the total costs, but you keep avoiding that and missing basic facts.

Here, I'll be extra helpful...

To stat sway 6 pieces of ascended armor and, let's say, 5 weapons, the total cost is as follows...

Armors...
  • 1 Original ascended armor, 1 Master insignia for the desired stats, 5 Glob of Ectoplasm, 1 Anthology of Heroes... X 6 = 6 Master insignia, 30 Globs of Ectos and 60 Spirit Shards...

Which comes out to how much? 60 gold? How long does that take to farm? 4 hours? 5? For Best in Slot end game gear which you do not have to change ever again, until the next huge balance patch in 2 years?

You could make it 200 gold, it would still be to cheap by industry standards.

This is one of those typical player ideas which is absolutely hazardous to the longevity of the game. Case in point: look what the even easier access to ascended amulets via the last episode has done? That slot is essentially now absolutely USELESS from an itemization perspective game design wise.

Read the edited version before you reply

Increases the total cost to now maybe 80 gold?

You are missing the entire point of why your suggestion is bad (or maybe you are not but just being stubborn because you keep repeating yourself) and by now are just arguing for arguments sake. I have clearly explained how itemization in this game is already the fastest in the market, and how this causes issues. You can continue on your quest of being right for being rights sake, I'm not going to get caught up in nonsensical details.

I've had problems editing...

"You need to add up the total costs, but you keep avoiding that and missing basic facts.

Here, I'll be extra helpful...

To stat sway 6 pieces of ascended armor and, let's say, 5 weapons, the total cost is as follows...

Armors...1 Original ascended armor, 1 Master insignia for the desired stats, 5 Glob of Ectoplasm, 1 Anthology of Heroes... X 6 = 6 Master insignia, 30 Globs of Ectos and 60 SpiritShards...

Weapons...

1 Original ascended weapon, 1 Orichalcum Imbued Inscription for the desired stats, 5 Glob of Ectoplasm, 1 Anthology of Heroes... X 5 = 5 Orichalcum Imbued Inscription,25 Glob of Ectoplasm, 50 Spirit Shards.

Trinkets...

Player also bought 5 Laurel trinkets for 180 laurels that dropped opver a 3 month period of daily log-ins.

Back Piece...Player also crafted a non-transmutable ascended back piece...

WvW Infusions-5 laurels each x 22 is 110 spirit shards

… So player needs to spend 220 spirit shards to transmute and rebuy infusions. They have to rebuy trinkets and back piece. That's just 1 set of gear in this scenario. Now multiply that if there are more gear sets on characters..."

Infusions are absolute endgame items, they do not expire. Old infusions do not become useless, especially if you've used power or condition damage ones. Infusions as they are are TO CHEAP already. Getting a new set means the player now has 2 full sets at his disposal.

Back pieces are easily obtainable via multiple avenues in the game, as are most trinkets. Most desired stat combinations (berserker, viper, celestial, marauder, etc. will remain just as useful after the patch as they are now).

Trinkets are dime a dozen, as mentioned earlier.

Armor is dirt cheap as exotic and is not even needed as ascended. Stat changing a full set is a couple of hour of gold farming at best, even attainable while playing wvw. Weapons the same.

You keep making these lists assuming this changes anything, it does not. THE COST AND TIME OF GEARING UP IN THIS GAME IS INSIGNIFICANT by market standards. Even the reforging and updating is dirt cheap, and not even custom in this game types market where re-acquisition is the usual approach.

I'm done talking in circles here.

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@"Cyninja.2954"

You are missing the points entirely... The devs are making major changes and possibly devaluing players current gear choices, resources used and game time spent acquiring said gears... Which will cost the player to change or replace gear... Sorry, but it's not an "oh well scenario" when you are talking big changes that potentially affect entire builds and gear sets, and the players are forced to take a huge loss...

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:@Swagger.1459 I think players in general will complain, just as you are now, about every little thing. Some of those complaints should be taken seriously, but some would directly damage the game. Itemization, both from scratch as well as stat changing, is very very very generous and short in this game compared to any other competitor in the same genre.

Even if a big balance patch, which is a rare occurrence in this size and scope, is likely forcing some change on players gear does not necessarily require a permanent change to this already very generous system. On the contrary,
making permanent changes to the game based on singular events is a very short sighted approach
.

For reference, to change 1 item (armor or weapon) in stats you need:

That amounts to a total cost of less than 5-6 gold, plus the insignia/inscription (if we even assume a value for the spirit shards, given how many players do not convert all their shards). For a best in slot item.

Trinkets are a dime a dozen and get made easier and easier to acquire, most recently the amulet which takes maybe 10 minutes of play on the new Bjora Marches map to acquire the resources required. For people who want to change stats on those there is even slightly more expensive options which can have stats changed.

A final issue on this: any more convenience and legendary items become completely unnecessary since ascended gear would mirror their unique benefit. Multiple ascended sets already outperform legendary gear in the cosmetic department. This is something which would as well damage the longevity of the game.

EDIT: and yes, I did read your entire post the first time. I just did not feel the need to go into detail, once again, on a what I still believe is just another variation of the typical: I want stuff faster, complaints.

First off, I have 400+ pieces of ascended gear. I have full raid leg armor. I have leg back piece. I have all but 1 legendary trinket. I have 18 leg weapons... So it’s not productive to assume “I want stuff faster”, when I already have a ton of stuff and can get or craft more stuff easily.

Want me to start counting up my leggies and ascended? I guarantee it's far more than yours. That's beside the point though when arguing against a change which can potentially affect the game in a negative way based on a singular event.

I am not arguing based on my personal standing or wealth in the game. I am trying to look at the bigger picture and how this games design works and peforms in comparison to the market.

@Swagger.1459 said:Second, that’s 1 piece of gear, now add up the costs to changing 1 full gear set of armor and weapons and trinkets... now add up the costs to having multiple sets on multiple characters... Now factor in some back pieces and trinkets cannot be transmuted that cost time and resources to acquire. Now wvw infusions... Go ahead and add up all the various costs for different scenarios, not just pull 1 piece of gear into the equation.

Gl!

Wvw infusions can be removed with the 26 silver infusion extraction item, that is without getting into the fact that WvW infusions are way to cheap for what they provide, 5 laurels, really? Longterm WvW players are swimming in tickets too.

Yes, can amount to a few hundred gold IF you have enough sets to upgrade. Which automatically tells me the player is more veteran, which in turn tells me they either are wealthy enough or capable of burdening such cost (if even applicable since many will wait for others to develop new builds) or especially in need of goals.

Just imagine how much fun it would be to have everything up and ready within hours of such a groundbreaking balance change... not much at all I would assume.

Sorry, my answers remains:
Longterm changes based on singular events are unhealthy for the game.

You need to add up the total costs, but you keep avoiding that and missing basic facts.

Here, I'll be extra helpful...

To stat sway 6 pieces of ascended armor and, let's say, 5 weapons, the total cost is as follows...

Armors...
  • 1 Original ascended armor, 1 Master insignia for the desired stats, 5 Glob of Ectoplasm, 1 Anthology of Heroes... X 6 = 6 Master insignia, 30 Globs of Ectos and 60 Spirit Shards...

Which comes out to how much? 60 gold? How long does that take to farm? 4 hours? 5? For Best in Slot end game gear which you do not have to change ever again, until the next huge balance patch in 2 years?

You could make it 200 gold, it would still be to cheap by industry standards.

This is one of those typical player ideas which is absolutely hazardous to the longevity of the game. Case in point: look what the even easier access to ascended amulets via the last episode has done? That slot is essentially now absolutely USELESS from an itemization perspective game design wise.

Read the edited version before you reply

Increases the total cost to now maybe 80 gold?

You are missing the entire point of why your suggestion is bad (or maybe you are not but just being stubborn because you keep repeating yourself) and by now are just arguing for arguments sake. I have clearly explained how itemization in this game is already the fastest in the market, and how this causes issues. You can continue on your quest of being right for being rights sake, I'm not going to get caught up in nonsensical details.

I've had problems editing...

"You need to add up the total costs, but you keep avoiding that and missing basic facts.

Here, I'll be extra helpful...

To stat sway 6 pieces of ascended armor and, let's say, 5 weapons, the total cost is as follows...

Armors...1 Original ascended armor, 1 Master insignia for the desired stats, 5 Glob of Ectoplasm, 1 Anthology of Heroes... X 6 = 6 Master insignia, 30 Globs of Ectos and 60 SpiritShards...

Weapons...

1 Original ascended weapon, 1 Orichalcum Imbued Inscription for the desired stats, 5 Glob of Ectoplasm, 1 Anthology of Heroes... X 5 = 5 Orichalcum Imbued Inscription,25 Glob of Ectoplasm, 50 Spirit Shards.

Trinkets...

Player also bought 5 Laurel trinkets for 180 laurels that dropped opver a 3 month period of daily log-ins.

Back Piece...Player also crafted a non-transmutable ascended back piece...

WvW Infusions-5 laurels each x 22 is 110 spirit shards

… So player needs to spend 220 spirit shards to transmute and rebuy infusions. They have to rebuy trinkets and back piece. That's just 1 set of gear in this scenario. Now multiply that if there are more gear sets on characters..."

Infusions are absolute endgame items, they do not expire. Old infusions do not become useless, especially if you've used power or condition damage ones. Infusions as they are are TO CHEAP already. Getting a new set means the player now has 2 full sets at his disposal.

Back pieces are easily obtainable via multiple avenues in the game, as are most trinkets. Most desired stat combinations (berserker, viper, celestial, marauder, etc. will remain just as useful after the patch as they are now).

Trinkets are dime a dozen, as mentioned earlier.

Armor is dirt cheap as exotic and is not even needed as ascended. Stat changing a full set is a couple of hour of gold farming at best, even attainable while playing wvw. Weapons the same.

You keep making these lists assuming this changes anything, it does not. THE COST AND TIME OF GEARING UP IN THIS GAME IS INSIGNIFICANT by market standards. Even the reforging and updating is dirt cheap, and not even custom in this game types market where re-acquisition is the usual approach.

I'm done talking in circles here.

You are missing the points entirely... The devs are making major changes and possibly devaluing players current gear choices, resources used and game time spent acquiring said gears... Which will cost the player to change or replace gear... Sorry, but it's not an "oh well scenario" when you are talking big changes that potentially affect entire builds and gear sets, and the players are forced to take a huge loss...

I have addressed this multiple times by now. What is it you keep saying:

@Swagger.1459 said:You are missing the big points.

It seems to me as far as your arguments are concerned, anyone who disagrees with you is missing the big point. Then you keep repeating yourself without bringing any new arguments or expanding on your suggestion or even addressing what others have said.

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@"Cyninja.2954"

Nope, you are just not adding up the total costs associated with gear, nor taking into account multiple characters with multiple sets of gear... Maybe you don't care that a player will, or may, need to spend 1000 spirit shards, 1000 laurels, 1000 more gold... and more... swapping and getting new gears because of the change, but there are players who will. And the "oh well" attitude won't fly considering there are a plethora of players who are already upset by the huge nerfs coming... Now you tell me how an already bothered player will react to the devs if they also have to spend more time and resources changing and buying new gears? Think they will be happy?

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@Swagger.1459 said:@"Cyninja.2954"

Nope, you are just not adding up the total costs associated with gear, nor taking into account multiple characters with multiple sets of gear... Maybe you don't care that a player will, or may need, to spend 1000 spirit shards, 1000 laurels, 1000 more gold... and more... swapping and getting new gears because of the change, but there are players who will. And the "oh well" attitude won't fly considering there are a plethora of players who are already upset by the huge nerfs coming... Now you tell me how an already bothered player will react to the devs if they also have to spend more time and resources changing and buying new gears? Think they will be happy?

Yes, let's wait and see how it plays out first.

My guess is:People will be excited to try out new builds.Infusions will remains just as useful as they are now.Most of the currently useful and desired gear will remains just as useful and desired making changing in stats not even needed.For everything else, there is cheap ways to re-acquire gear and stats change if needed.A few weeks after the patch everything will have settled down.

You are making an issue out of something which is not, just to be right.

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@"Cyninja.2954"

No, you don't wait until forums explode even more on the devs to start considering qol improvements to gear. Especially with such huge changes starting.

And you think this patch is it? Nope, there are going to be reworks, changes to runes and sigils, and way more coming too... The "too bad, buy more gear and flush the rest" attitude isn't going to go over well on a skeptical and angry player base...

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Spirit shards? Ok now I think we're just being memed.

The simple answer is to buff grandmaster shards, which take 67 weeks to get a single set of ascended armor. Considering you could acquire a legendary set of armor faster, it makes zero sense. I think that needs to be cut to a fourth. Ironically, it's probably faster to buy ascended gear with tickets.

We can buy infusions with wvw currency so that's sort of a non-issue. I think it should actually be a drop as well.

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Sorry, but you won’t see a lot of player opposition if the devs were to say... “We are starting big changes to professions in the game so we want to make gearing up and transmuting a bit easier on the players. We value your time in the game so we want to make transitions smoother on everyone”...

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@"Swagger.1459" said:We all know that major changes to professions are starting, and I’d like for the dev team to seriously consider looking at improved ways of gearing up and transmutation methods going forward. Examples from this thread...

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/71738/profession-development-path-forward-proposals

Quote...

10- Part of the build fun is experimenting with different gears, so maybe look at reducing/shaving off some of the requirements to crafting gears, obtaining gears through gameplay and for transmuting gears… And look at some overall improvements for players to gear up... Things like...

  • Jeweler 500 with Ascended Trinket crafting.

I understand your concern. Because every time when changes to the professions were announced (and made) the consequence was that a lot of gear lost its effectiveness. I felt several times this consequence and this was the reason I decided to craft legendary gear for all my 9 (one per class) alts. I don't know if this game (or me) will live enough to allow me to complete this project, but this is what I do now.

Still, even with complete legendary gear, the problem of the legendary trinkets remain. You can somehow ... solve this by using 4 pieces from Bloodstone Fen, only the accessories remaining, but even so, having to change the configuration of the gear only to be able to do the exact thing you done before is annoying. Even if it is (almost) free.

In your case, having many alts, with dozens of sets of ascendant gear, the change may be very costly. And YES, I agree that some pieces cannot be changed. You will have to buy them again.

I support your suggestion to have several ways to obtain ascendant gear in an easier way. Many may argue that the way we obtain ascendant is easy even now. Yes, it is easy. For ONE character. And for ONE build. Try to multiply the effort and costs with 20 and you will find that this is not easy anymore.

Unfortunately, I don't think that we will have this too soon (if ever). Look at what happened with the Ice Shards - the cost of the LS4 currency using Ice Shards increased. You can use LS currency to buy (among the other things) trinkets. So, I can say that the trend is not to make ascendant gear easier to get, but even more difficult.

Repeat - I'm with you in this request, but I don't have too great hope. Because more expenses for the players means more income for ANet.

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Apparently logical explanations of the economic repercussions that reducing the "cost" of attaining or transmuting gear has; along with the explanation that progression in this game is defined as horizontal (ie. diversity of things, not scaling of things) make no difference to some of you....All I can say is TOO BAD. The systems are too delicate and forgiving enough already to stick your hand in there and stir that pot without any foresight.

This is the only MMO I know of where gear remains even remotely relevant years after its been out. In other games you have to farm new gear for all your characters every time an expansion or level cap increase goes out. How are we even having this conversation in the most gear-available game in the genre? You make it seem like you're being forced to delete your ascended gear and start over. Let me remind you that gear is not soul bound, that its character transferable AND in a majority of cases stat flippable. "Testing" gear (exotics) is basically instantly attainable. I mean shit, did you feel entitled to free/discounted gear when HoT or PoF came out and the build system changed drastically?

Final 2 cents here, I'm done arguing.

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@"Swagger.1459" said:Sorry, but you won’t see a lot of player opposition if the devs were to say... “We are starting big changes to professions in the game so we want to make gearing up and transmuting a bit easier on the players. We value your time in the game so we want to make transitions smoother on everyone”...

Same if they said "free precursors for everyone!" I would like it. Doesn't mean it's a good idea.

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