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Does it make sense for every skill with a CC to have a multiplier of .01?


mrauls.6519

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For example, dragonhunter's Deflecting Shot will deal damage with a multiplier of .01. Deflecting Shot's damage is currently a decent chunk of DH's DPS. The DPS loss wasn't re-added anywhere. What happens if DH struggles to kill enemies because multiple skills had their multipliers brought down to .01, just because they provide a CC? It does make sense for some skills with CC's to do little to no damage, but some are actually important to the overall rotation. For example, I don't mind Spear of Justice having a .01 multiplier. It provides great functionality.

What do you guys think?

Edit: A great example I continuously see brought up is Warrior's hammer. 3/5 skills will have a multiplier of .01!Edit #2: A better choice would have been to reduce those skills' damage by 50%.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:I think thats good but they need to give sometrade off, lowef cast or cd

Yeah, I wouldn't mind a lower CD or added functionality! I realize how important certain skills are for their damage. DPS is already being brought down by ~33% profession wide. Removing an entire skill's damage component can be killer. The current Deflecting Shot can knock off ~15% of a player's HP if it crits. If I lose that damage, I need something to help my other skills pump out enough DPS to compensate for it

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@"choovanski.5462" said:it's a good change. will have to use CC to set up dmg, not just kill someone with bull charge

6k deflecting shot killing people is funny, but it's not healthy for the game tbh

I agree, CC skills shouldn't "1 shot" someone, but for it to do close to 0 damage? If they had buffed True Shot's damage, maybe

Edit: I've never seen a 6k deflecting shot in my life. The DH would have to be super glass to achieve that

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@"mrauls.6519" said:

@"choovanski.5462" said:it's a good change. will have to use CC to set up dmg, not just kill someone with bull charge

6k deflecting shot killing people is funny, but it's not healthy for the game tbh

I agree, CC skills shouldn't "1 shot" someone, but for it to do close to 0 damage? If they had buffed True Shot's damage, maybe

everyone is getting damage reductions, and healing reductions. compared to the multipliers on most skills after patch, true shot still hits really hard. so does the auto, and so do the traps

considering you can insta kill with traps still, I think DH can suffer the loss of 6k deflecting shots. I know I'll still play a bit of meditrapper w my warrior post patch, I think it's gonna still be very strong tbh

cc skills having big crits has never been a good thing about gw2. skills like hammer 5 on scrapper having any dmg at all has always been stupid

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I'm just going to repost what what I said in the main balance thread. But generally speaking if it has a proper large wind up and a cooldown I don't think a big hit that also CC's is remotely a problem in the game mode.

I do want to say that I understand the logic in nerfing CC skills heavily in the damage department, I think a lot of this is going too far with it to the point of ruining things like class identity.

For example: Prime Light Beam. Prime Light Beam is one of my favorite utility skills to have to play against. It's really cool, it fits with Holosmith really well thematically and gameplay wise. If I dodge it, I always feel like I gained a huge advantage in the fight. If I get tagged with it, there's always a wave of panic.

If I had any one complaint about the skill, the only thing I disliked was that it could be cast from stealth and since it has no projectile from stealth it is genuinely unavoidable. I really only wanted to see self revealed applied to the holosmith when they begin casting the skill so if they try to cast it from stealth I get to see the tell anyway.

I was fine with the damage. I was fine with the CC. I was fine with the flavor. This applies to other elites like Dragon Maw, Head Butt, ect. ect. Even nonelites like Wild Blow and Big Ol Bomb.

I think full on the point of balance patches is a massive increase in build diversity. We want to see MATs and one side might have a Greatsword/Dagger+Shield Spellbreaker on one side, and something that seems impossible with the current balance like a Hammer Berserker running Wild Blow. Hammer on warrior is all about having below average damage, little mobility, no defensive options but making up for it with heavy CC. If you do something like gut all the damage out of all the hammer skills that weapon kit will never be seen in game again. Like all the damage on the kit is gone I straight up think it will be outright impossible to score a single kill on any build ever if you have a weapon kit that literally just does not do damage the way you've done with warrior hammer now.

Warrior hammer, especially considering how it's;

  1. Melee only
  2. No movement skills outside of the modestly ranged burst
  3. Has very little range outside of the cripple shockwave
  4. Has mediocre DPS
  5. Relies on it's high damage CC skills to actually do a reasonable amount of damage

Goes to show how not entirely well thought out the idea of gutting all damage from CC skills is. You'd have to balance it around doing like 6-7k damage auto attacks for it to have any chance of killing any players.

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I certainly agree with where Cohen is going with this, making the skills more focused on its primary ability

but rather nerf every CC skills' coefficients down to 0.1, i would like to see the base strength of the CC be accounted forthe stronger the CC the lower the coefficient, the weaker the CC the higher the coefficient is

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I don't see how they will recompense all the cc skills with out power creeping them in another way; i.e. increased functionality, lowered cast times, or lowered cds. seems like we will trade one type of broke for another. honestly 1 min stun break cds is kind of ridiculous when strong ccs are 1/2 or even 1/3 that, so maybe they don't change the cc skills at all. dunno man, dunno.

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@"mrauls.6519" said:For example, dragonhunter's Deflecting Shot will deal damage with a multiplier of .01. Deflecting Shot's damage is currently a decent chunk of DH's DPS. The DPS loss wasn't re-added anywhere. What happens if DH struggles to kill enemies because multiple skills had their multipliers brought down to .01, just because they provide a CC? It does make sense for some skills with CC's to do little to no damage, but some are actually important to the overall rotation. For example, I don't mind Spear of Justice having a .01 multiplier. It provides great functionality.

What do you guys think?

I think that starting their new baseline balance point with hard CCs dealing 50% of the damage they deal now, would be a lot better than nuking all hard CCs into no damage.

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100% with you on the Hammer build. It's also weird that they emphasize that Hammer 5 -> 2 combo by also allowing the 5 to refresh the 2 with the upcoming changes, while everything, including the Hammer 2, just lost all of the damage on it.

I propose: GIve it a finisher! We need more of those. Finish downstates instantly, single target. Fits the theme too. I'll never stop saying this, but more big hit finishers that don't involve pressing F, but actual gameplay and choice of either using a skill during a fight or finishing it to literally finish somebody off needs to become more of a thing while we are at it.

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@Quadox.7834 said:But does hammer need so many CCs? Cant we change hanmer 4 to a spin that does damage (similar to scrapper hammer 2) and gives protection for successful hit? Or something.

Warrior hammer does have a ton of CC's. Still, I think it's crazy for 3/5 of the weapon skills to have a multiplier of .01. I wouldn't even want to use that weapon in PvP

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I'm totally fine with this. Considering what bulls charge is capable of(massive damage, long cc, gap closer, leap combo) it doesn't need the damage or the leap combo imo. And nearly all hard cc moves do massive damage. Cc moves should be a set up for bigger combos not the finisher or as a damage contributor, but a setup/utilities.As far as hammer goes it already had no play time in PvP so nothing will change there.

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Talking about DS, the skill already requires aiming and setup. It’s damage was buffed recently by 80% cuz the risk and the reward of the skill we’re completely out of whack. To an extent it is still a bit under powered.

Now Anet removes the damage and adds and additional 0.5 sec cast time. I gurantee you whoever made the change to this skill (as they majority of the balance changes) had no idea what the skill is or does. You would be an absolute moron if you ever even attempt to use this skill in sPvP.

This goes to many of these weapon changes. Like warrior hammer and mace.

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When it comes to PvP, I consider crowd control the most delicate subject. This is because many people love to disable enemies, and hate to be disabled then demolished. Removing all damage from crowd control is the greatest and most awesome modification Anet made to PvP in the last 7 years (since release). If a player just comes to match to apply crowd controls in chains, then that player should deal no damage, and instead his partners should do that for him, creating coordination. This is actually great tactic; now if we only had teams.

Thank you Arenanet for keeping crowd controls under surveillance, and for removing damage from CC abilities.

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@otto.5684 said:Talking about DS, the skill already requires aiming and setup. It’s damage was buffed recently by 80% cuz the risk and the reward of the skill we’re completely out of whack. To an extent it is still a bit under powered.

Now Anet removes the damage and adds and additional 0.5 sec cast time. I gurantee you whoever made the change to this skill (as they majority of the balance changes) had no idea what the skill is or does. You would be an absolute moron if you ever even attempt to use this skill in sPvP.

This goes to many of these weapon changes. Like warrior hammer and mace.

Agreed. While the reasoning behind their attempted changes are 'cute', the skill itself will be completely out of competitive viability until it's reverted or changed further in the unforeseeable future. DH's bow damage is low as it stands, and their missile speed is, correct me if I'm wrong, lower than ranger's longbow. With all of their skills more telegraphed than any of warrior's, how on earth are they supposed to deal damage outside trap cheese? None of the traits will be able to save this clunky mess.

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