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Would you want Henchmen/Mercs for Private Instances?


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@GW Noob.6038 said:

@GW Noob.6038 said:Mercs? Yes please! One of the worse things about this game is being forced to wait around (sometimes for days) for people to do content with...meta events being the obvious exception. That is unacceptable...I should be able to do group events, dungeons, and fractals the very moment that I decide to do them.

Yes because having dead weight around you is gonna be a lot better. Why exactly do you fail at soloing group events, dungeons and fractals?

Why? Because I have large hands/fingers, plus I'm not very dexterous, so executing rapid keystrokes is very difficult for me.

I guess the better question would've been why do you think having an NPC helper would allow you to finish group events, dungeons and fractals.Hint: they aren't going to be better than any kind of player

I'm not saying that AI mercs would be better than other players, from a tactical point of view, I'm saying that for me and my playstyle AI mercs are superior because I can employ them right there, on the spot. Like I said before: I don't want to have to wait around for people to come and help me with events, dungeons, or fractals...more often than not, I could have the content completed long before any players show up.

And what you don't understand is that the reason a player cannot beat the content solo is the same why an AI "merc" won't be any helpful either. Just take a look at the NPC allies, remove their health (because players do not have lots of health, NPC allies do) and see how useful they are going to be in actual combat. And that's only for regular combat, good group events require a good amount of splitting up, something the AI won't be able to perform in any capacity. An AI ally will be as useful in combat (especially if they are using player skills like the suggestion) as having a newborn baby playing the same character (hint: not very useful)

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I'd much rather have the AI already there FIXED than introduce more AI that completely ignores me when I get in a downed state or die. I hate redoing some of the living season episodes because of it. Oh thanks Marjory, I'll try and fight this by myself while you twiddle your thumbs off on the side and not engage in the fight at all.

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@GW Noob.6038 said:

@GW Noob.6038 said:Mercs? Yes please! One of the worse things about this game is being forced to wait around (sometimes for days) for people to do content with...meta events being the obvious exception. That is unacceptable...I should be able to do group events, dungeons, and fractals the very moment that I decide to do them.

Unacceptable? It's the definition of what an MMO is. Join a guild if you need others to help with content. That's kinda the reason they're there.

I'm here for the persistent world...I don't care about anything else. I'll take AI mercs over other players any day of the week.

Perhaps MMOs are the style of game that you prefer? This isn't a "leave!" comment; rather, just pointing out that you appear to be advocating for things that go against the genre/style of GW2

So, you're saying that all activities outside of guild activities are not valid parts of an MMO? For example: doing meta events has nothing to do with being in a guild...I've done hundreds of meta events without guilds being present as an organizing factor. Also, being in a guild doesn't guaranty that I'll be able to accomplish my objective on the spot, like I want to...with AI mercs I can do that; indeed, with AI mercs I can, more often than not, have my objective completed before my guildmates ever show up.

Like I said: I'll take solo-play and AI mercs over regular players any day of the week.

ps...most people don't belong to actual guilds, they are soloing their guild.

No, I'm saying that activities in general in an MMO usually require other players to complete. If they didn't, then the game really wouldn't qualify as an MMO. GW2 offers several ways to complete content: LFG, guilds and PUGs. True, you can attempt content solo, but I don't believe that this is the intent of GW2 due to its design. This is also why I don't believe adding AI mercs/henchmen would work or even be necessary.

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  • 1 year later...

no because the game is an mmorpg. if it was a singleplayer/2~4player co-op game, sure why not.

besides the games that do have AI followers like SW:TOR or GW1 -- you can't really make them do group mechanics and mostly the AI is just set to blindly follow you and attack your targets. i wouldn't expect arenanet to provide more functionality for micro managing them such as hold-position, move-to-location, interact-with-object, attack-target-queue, etc. (imagine doing a dungeon/fractal/instance with multiple mechanics requiring 2 people to constantly position/interact with things and also having to deal with a boss/trash mobs... it would be a nightmare to micro-manage all of that + dps in the fight)

maybe when we're down to <500 players per server region, sure add AI followers for content. but otherwise no -- people just need to find a good guild, a good community or meet someone ingame to duo/trio/etc. with

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I've and my significant other wanted this from day one in story instances, dungeons, fractals, raids, etc. Not everyone is on a schedule to rally a group or want to join a part of people who have already done the content. I enjoy the discovery of the content. Being pushed through content without having the chance to take it in at my own pace isn't fun. I like stopping to appreciate the work of the developers. I think being able to use your own characters as heroes, being able to build them and set their roles would be challenging fun.

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@SoulGuardian.6203 said:Can one manage to find enough players for triple trouble?

yes, they are still being done and reliably being cleared (you still get that bad run once in a while -- but that's mostly just because people don't listen-to/read the instructions of the people leading the fight)

there are guilds dedicated to organising and clearing TT. you need to look out for people shouting in maps like LA (and having multiple squad LFGs/taxi up for each lane) when they are organising a run and they run a fixed schedule for it. if you don't play at the time they regularly schedule their clears, ofcourse you wouldn't see them and think no one's doing TT and succeeding

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While i do like the idea of Heroes, and i liked having them in GW1, for reasons others already mentioned i just don't see them working in GW2. They'd have to be massively overpowered to be of any use. Either that, or they would have to be well scripted for each possible instance where we could use them. That's an absolutely massive amount of work for the devs. That's simply not going to happen.

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A system like this could work but how do you rebalance the game around this? I dislike this type of mechanic (NPC Helpers) as the game then needs to be balanced around another set of variables.

NPCs will (never say) never be able to match the ability to replicate human decision making in an MMO like GW2. If we look at things like Necro Minions, Ranger Pets, Elementalist Summons etc we can see what I would expect the quality of NPC Helper AI to be. Now give every player 1+ NPC Helper with tuned AI for the role, and decide how much should this Helper NPC actually Help?

How do you avoid power creep while giving players Helper NPC's? Let's avoid Open World and look specifically at instanced content, Fractals. If a party of 3 players and 2 Helper NPC's are in Fractals, how far should they reasonably be able to go? T1 and T2 seem reasonable to suggest, but T3? T4? CM?

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Depends, I dont need to perform much or even well, but I'd like a sort of additional commentary in some areas. Like a familiar character from the story background that serves as a de-facto sidekick. I dont think that fits in exactly with what you have in mind. It might also add more dialogue fees than required. But it is something I miss from story instances.

Reeva the Cleava foreva

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Nope. Heavy reliance on NPCs was one of the reasons why I did not enjoy GW1. They make my character feel weak and useless. If I want to solo something then my character should be able to do it alone, without the help of NPCs. And if something is not soloable I'd rather group up with real people.

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In an effort to throw ideas against a wall with regards to more playable races, I once suggested adding customizable henchmen that could be any race you like. From Tengu to Centaur, even Skritt and Krait. They wouldn't be playable but maybe you can somewhat adjust their look and abilities.

Lol of course the forums are the forum and the game isn't allowed to have fun things if the devs have to lift a finger.

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@GW Noob.6038 said:Mercs? Yes please! One of the worse things about this game is being forced to wait around (sometimes for days) for people to do content with...meta events being the obvious exception. That is unacceptable...I should be able to do group events, dungeons, and fractals the very moment that I decide to do them.

Unacceptable? It's the definition of what an MMO is. Join a guild if you need others to help with content. That's kinda the reason they're there.

I'm here for the persistent world...I don't care about anything else. I'll take AI mercs over other players any day of the week.

Perhaps MMOs are the style of game that you prefer? This isn't a "leave!" comment; rather, just pointing out that you appear to be advocating for things that go against the genre/style of GW2

So, you're saying that all activities outside of guild activities are not valid parts of an MMO? For example: doing meta events has nothing to do with being in a guild...I've done hundreds of meta events without guilds being present as an organizing factor. Also, being in a guild doesn't guaranty that I'll be able to accomplish my objective on the spot, like I want to...with AI mercs I can do that; indeed, with AI mercs I can, more often than not, have my objective completed before my guildmates ever show up.

Like I said: I'll take solo-play and AI mercs over regular players any day of the week.

ps...most people don't belong to actual guilds, they are soloing their guild.

No, I'm saying that activities in general in an MMO usually require other players to complete. If they didn't, then the game really wouldn't qualify as an MMO.

As long as you had the OPTION to do it in a group, i don't see why anyone would complain. Except, of course, the fact that then most, if not everyone would do it solo. Gee, i wonder why...

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Since this thread was revived by the OP, I will repeat the same I said earlier: GW2 requires proactive play, which is really hard to do/code in an AI. This isn't like GW1, which requires reactive play, something very easy to code.

Someone posted something about using these abominations in instances, like dungeons/fractals, and even Raids. For those that want henchmen/heroes/mercs/whatever, can you imagine for a second, how would such a team do the laser jumping in Crucible of Eternity? Or Old Tom in uncategorized fractal? Or how exactly are these AI controlled allies gonna help with Vale Guardian.

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@Yggranya.5201 said:As long as you had the OPTION to do it in a group, i don't see why anyone would complain. Except, of course, the fact that then most, if not everyone would do it solo. Gee, i wonder why...

And you have this info from where? From my experience, people like to group up in this game and the design (personal loot, no kill stealing) heavily supports that.

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I do not really think they are needed. Most stuff can easily be soloed. And the stuff that can't easily be soloed is meant to be harder. So ... in one case (easy to solo stuff) you would not need them. And in the other case (harder to solo stuff) they probably would need to remove eligibility (for certain optional solo story achievements) to not make it too easy.

Fractals, etc. obviously are meant to be played with other player.s Story solo is no problem - except for some harder (they area meant to be hard!) optional achievements.

It could be fun if you were able to equip (and change builds) some extra professions ... and if there were special (future, optional) maps/instances added for this. That were only balanced for this (where no other players could join but it would be belanced around using such NPC henchmen).

For the current content: No.

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GW1 is a game where >90% of it's content is designed to be multiplayer, story and all, and a system like that was needed for play at off-peak hours and into maintenance mode.GW2 is a game where >90% of it's content is designed to be singleplayer, and already one of the biggest issues the game faces is lack of social/MMO elements and game teaching moments.Considering a Ranger pet can already solo the Core game, I don't think there would be much of a game left if people had a full group of AI clearing everything for them.

As I see it, Henchmen for GW2, currently, would "fix" a symptom by making the actual problem worse.

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