What are "casual" and "hardcore" in GW2?

[Rauderi.8706]

@"Gop.8713" said:important part of their identity

Highlighted for a very important chunk of that text. And that's why some folks have no chill when it comes to outcomes.Not enough gold/hr? Froth.A good-enough raid party isn't "good enough"? Froth. Then kick.Fractal CM takes 5 seconds longer to reach the shiny? Quote ArcDPS to abuse whoever's lowest.

There is a severe lack of empathy and overflow of narcissism when a person crosses the threshold of "a game I play" to "my game".

[Astralporing.1957]

@Rauderi.8706 said:

@"Gop.8713" said:important part of their identity

Highlighted for a

very

important chunk of that text. And that's why some folks have no chill when it comes to outcomes.Not enough gold/hr? Froth.A good-enough raid party isn't "good enough"? Froth. Then kick.Fractal CM takes 5 seconds longer to reach the shiny? Quote ArcDPS to abuse whoever's lowest.

There is a severe lack of empathy and overflow of narcissism when a person crosses the threshold of "a game I play" to "my game".Notice, though, that it works both ways. If you are the one player that constantly wipes the group or drags it back, and you're not taking the hint, then you are also trying to enforce your kind of game on everyone else. That is why you should not put players with different goals in one mode, when their goals may end up conflicting - there is no right or wrong in such a case, only a lot of fun ruined for everyone all around.

[Wisty.4135]

Casual vs hardcore has always been "how seriously the game is taken" sort of vibe. For example, I tend to play top tier raid builds and focus on being high DPS/healing in those contexts - pretty serious. In PvP or WvW, I'm gold 3/plat 1 (rank 300 in wvw), but I run around with my trusty mace/shield hammer core warrior... Not serious at all. All other definitions can sorta fall under the same umbrella of "seriousness" I think

[battledrone.8315]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Gop.8713" said:For me, the distinction is sharpest in how players react to failure. A casual, even a dedicated casual, can still see a failed raid as time well spent if they had fun. A hardcore player will not.True, but it's not as clearcut as you might think. A casual is not going to see a failed raid (even a training one) as a time well spent if they

didn't

have fun. A hardcore on the other hand might consider several hours of constantly wiping on boss as a time well spent, because it allowed him to learn the boss mechanic better, and "progress". While considering a single wipe on already "cleared" boss to be a bad experience he'd rather not have.That's because in both cases the

source

of fun is different.

A casual might feel other players are behaving badly when they won't just let them have fun playing the game, while for the hardcore an important part of their identity is that there exist other players who are less skilled.More like, for the hardcore, the less skilled players, by making mistakes or not being efficient enough, seem to be actively ruin

their

fun. Not all hardcores need to be better than others. Some just want to be better than "yesterday's themselves", or good enough to "overcome the challenge presented by the game".

It's easy to see how that could create conflict but in neither case is it really about the other players, it's just that the attitudes of players from the two groups don't mesh well . . .This. Like i said in the post Daddicus quoted at the beginning of the thread, the difference between casual and hardcore is in attitude - in the mentality and the way you look at the game. And those attitudes very often directly clash with each other.

In the end, it's often not a good idea for those people to be placed together in an environment where both sides' definitions of fun might go against each other.

and that is why wow worked so well for many years, casuals could level new races/classes, and the hardcores could raid.see how well wow is doing without new low level content now.

[maxwelgm.4315]

My take on the casual vs hardcore debate is that, at least to some extent, we should stop tearing at each other and take a look at how Anet's own design choices promote a "hard to trespass" gap among the player base.

GW2 has a very low skill floor, which means that you can enjoy a "full" game experience by quite literally going up to everything and auto-attacking it. You will not be doing several pieces of content, but you will be able to do most living world stuff and main stories of expansions with a mere pressing of extra keys here and there. This is neither a good nor bad thing, it's just an explicit design choice on behalf of the developers - "our game will be very gameplay friendly so that it can be immediately accessed by practically anyone" is the idea here.

On the other hand, the nature of combat and how the overall setting is action-oriented and relies on the environment makes it so that the skill ceiling is absurdly high. The differences in average auto-attacking and random spamming damage of a class to what it can do through optimized activation orders, positioning and traits are immense at more than 25k DPS in most cases, which is quite a lot when you consider this is the entire average HP of the classes with the highest HP. So Anet has actually gone through some length (perhaps unintentionally) to please both crowds of what are perceived as players who do not mind much about optimization ("casuals") and players who strive to crunch numbers away and hit performance quotas set by themselves ("hardcore"). This, of course, might end up displeasing and has displeased everyone since there are unique rewards (and this is not wrong to exist either, just putting it here as fact) for content that actually requires some effort, even if a very small one, towards the optimization route, and also because both kinds of players are being pitted into the same content at most times (playing ranked sPvP, for example, is much better for rewards even if you're bound to get your kitten kicked 60% of the time and drag down people who actually wanted to make the climb).

While there is no easy solution to this we should acknowledge it is not only a player-based issue and also stems from design choices that promote large gaps in between skills floor and ceiling. Whether or not the gaps should be that large is up to debate but not whether or not they are explicitly decided by Anet.

[Endless Soul.5178]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Endless Soul.5178" said:This describes me perfectly. However, I have spent 6,547 hours in the game since March, 2015 when I first switched over from Guild Wars 1. So, am I a casual or hardcore?For me, playing time doesn't decide that.

So, maybe you just have a lot of free time, or nothing better to do instead, or both. Who knows? Those things do not mean someone is suddenly hardcore (or even dedicated).

As an extreme example, i wouldn't call a couch potato a "hardcore tv viewer".

That's a good point because I spent a lot of those hours relaxing and roleplaying in various spots across Tyria, instead of doing content or whatever else.

EDIT: Deleted repeated word.

[JackassTheX.6351]

I think you can be both in different areas of the game, as people have mentioned before (especially the lady with 11 legendaries who did nothing but gather).

If I look at myself, I've gone from casual to hardcore and back a few times. I started out casual back in 2012 and I gave up on the game less than a year in because I wanted to play hard content but there was nothing to really be hardcore on. I came back in 2018 and first, I was a hardcore grinder, doing nothing but farming Elder Wood with the idea of getting gold for creating a meta DPS character so I could finally run T4 Fractals. I then moved to "hardcore" fractal leveling and getting to 100 and getting 150AR. I did NOTHING but dailies and fractals for days, weeks, months even. Fast forward 1 year and I have 5 fully ascended characters with min/maxed meta builds for different roles. Then, when I was able to clear T4s on a daily basis, I didn't feel like going the extra mile for CMs because they seemed too elitist and toxic. So I moved on to farming gold in various ways for a Legendary weapon. I was 100% goal focused and it seemed like "work" in a sense, but it was fun watching the numbers go up and feeling like I'm slowly chipping away at something. Pressing F and zerging around Palawadan isn't really skillful, but the intensity and determination with which I approached it is what I'd call the "hardcore" component of this behaviour. I got two Legendaries that way and now I just play story and do the occasional meta.

Another example: getting XP in GW is probably the most easy and skilless thing I can think of since you get XP for pretty much anything and everything you do, gathering, events, kills, etc. Yet, when I decided to max my HoT mastery levels, I did all the HoT adventures on Gold daily and I did at least one HoT meta per day. Adventures are sorta hard, but not something I'd call content for "hardcore" players. Metas aren't really hard either. So that's both and nothing at the same time. But again, I'd consider this "hardcore" playing because I dedicated a sizeable portion of my free time to it.

So TL;DR you can play easy content with a hardcore mentality, or you can play hard content with a casual mentality. Just my 2 cents.

[Trise.2865]

@ugrakarma.9416 said:hardcore = thousands of skins and using all shiniest stuff to bright like a living sun.

You're thinking of Fortnite.

[Vision.7265]

I always go back to core GW2 before the existence of Raids which made this game like every other mmo out there.

Open world metas and world bosses will and always will be the bread and butter of this game. TT World boss requires both 'hardcore' leaders to organize the event and the many many casuals who zerg. This world boss requires commanders, blockers, and optional condi if the blockers let husks out along with people who can keep the blockers pocket clear of added vets. Zerg do the mechanics of each wurm to activate the wurm's burn phase.

My point is: well-developed world bosses and metas require both communities in cooperation to run these things. Any open world content that brings everyone together has always been the heart and soul of the game. Closed content is not and cannot bring these communities together in the sheer volume that open world does and will always do.

This type of content makes the experienced, 'hardcore' type more approachable when they help the casuals learn in specialized, training before and during the boss run. Additionally, the best runs don't fail even when training new people at TT.

By contrast, the cost in time is high when training for the small, closed-instance content in game. If people aren't getting a decent return on their time investment, why do it? Does it matter if you're casual or hardcore if you're not getting back something of value in return for your time?

Of course not. The RPer always gets value from every moment they're in character. The small, gymkhana guild gets value from hitting their ramps and drift bowls throughout the open world. Bear in mind there are no achievement points to incentivize their respective playstyles or shinies for that matter. What they do and who they are has intrinsic value which is beyond any shiny or achievement point you can have in-game.

Are they hardcore? For some, Yes. Just not in the traditional mmo sense of min-maxers who see their closed-runs as a speedrun opportunity and throw their own under the bus if they don't reach optimal clear times.

GW2 started as a game that allows you to play how you want to play and should stay that way. If you're hardcore in something in-game, find people who are like-minded and leave other people alone. Same goes if you're casual.

I could never agree with the mentality that there is only one way to enjoy something and that others should be forced into it. Do the things you like and you'll find people who share those interests.

[Tsakhi.8124]

I'm very casual; I explore every map, find things to do and I don't follow meta. That being said, I will follow a meta if it is required. I don't want to rush through this game and feel burnt out. I came close a few times, but that was me needing to get away from the internet. XD

[Teratus.2859]

How do you define Hardcore in Gw2.. could be one of many ways.More time invested?More money invested?Loyalty?Highest DPS?

Tbh I think the terms Casual and Hardcore are pretty vague in Gw2's case.There's plenty of people who would be defined as Casual who've put far more time and money into the game than some of the more "hardcore" playersThey just spent that time doing more casual things.. RPing, chilling out in towns chatting, helping people, running tons of alts through the game, Unlocking as many skins as they feel like doing etc rather than making the whole game about how high their damage numbers can get and how fast they can beat certain content.

Thinking about it I don't feel these two terms really work for this game in the same way they do with others which is fine considering Gw2 is kind of unique as MMO's go anyway.

Say your a true highest DPS super man of your class with the best meta build and perfect rotation and you see johnny casual with a custom PvE build over there try to solo a legendary bounty.You jump in with your awesome god tier meta DPS build and end up getting downed 5-10 times during the fight while johnny casual doesn't die once and spends a chunk of his time reviving you.Are you really going to be so convinced in that scenario that you are the hardcore player and johnny is the casual?Sure you may have done more damage and helped kill the boss faster.. but johnny could have done it all by himself and didn't need your help at all.. and likewise he was the only reason you even survived the fight as well.

This is part of what I love about Gw2, There are just so many different ways to play the game as you want to play it.. regardless of your class preference.For me that makes terms like casual and hardcore kinda vague.You maybe hardcore in raids or WvW, but you could be little more than a revive icon to most people in PvE.. same goes in reverse too.

[Fueki.4753]

@"Teratus.2859" said:How do you define Hardcore in Gw2.. could be one of many ways.More time invested?More money invested?Loyalty?Highest DPS?

Tbh I think the terms Casual and Hardcore are pretty vague in Gw2's case.There's plenty of people who would be defined as Casual who've put far more time and money into the game than some of the more "hardcore" playersThey just spent that time doing more casual things.. RPing, chilling out in towns chatting, helping people, running tons of alts through the game, Unlocking as many skins as they feel like doing etc rather than making the whole game about how high their damage numbers can get and how fast they can beat certain content.

Thinking about it I don't feel these two terms really work for this game in the same way they do with others which is fine considering Gw2 is kind of unique as MMO's go anyway.

Say your a true highest DPS super man of your class with the best meta build and perfect rotation and you see johnny casual with a custom PvE build over there try to solo a legendary bounty.You jump in with your awesome god tier meta DPS build and end up getting downed 5-10 times during the fight while johnny casual doesn't die once and spends a chunk of his time reviving you.Are you really going to be so convinced in that scenario that you are the hardcore player and johnny is the casual?Sure you may have done more damage and helped kill the boss faster.. but johnny could have done it all by himself and didn't need your help at all.. and likewise he was the only reason you even survived the fight as well.

This is part of what I love about Gw2, There are just so many different ways to play the game as you want to play it.. regardless of your class preference.For me that makes terms like casual and hardcore kinda vague.You maybe hardcore in raids or WvW, but you could be little more than a revive icon to most people in PvE.. same goes in reverse too.

If Johnny truly was a casual, why would he even try to solo a legendary by himself?

[Svarty.8019]

IMHO: Casuals play 0-4 hours per day, Hardcore play more. Done.

(but really, Maddoctor is right, you can also beHardcore in attitude, and casual in time-commitmentorHardcore time-commitment and casual in attitude).

[Teratus.2859]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@"Teratus.2859" said:How do you define Hardcore in Gw2.. could be one of many ways.More time invested?More money invested?Loyalty?Highest DPS?

Tbh I think the terms Casual and Hardcore are pretty vague in Gw2's case.There's plenty of people who would be defined as Casual who've put far more time and money into the game than some of the more "hardcore" playersThey just spent that time doing more casual things.. RPing, chilling out in towns chatting, helping people, running tons of alts through the game, Unlocking as many skins as they feel like doing etc rather than making the whole game about how high their damage numbers can get and how fast they can beat certain content.

Thinking about it I don't feel these two terms really work for this game in the same way they do with others which is fine considering Gw2 is kind of unique as MMO's go anyway.

Say your a true highest DPS super man of your class with the best meta build and perfect rotation and you see johnny casual with a custom PvE build over there try to solo a legendary bounty.You jump in with your awesome god tier meta DPS build and end up getting downed 5-10 times during the fight while johnny casual doesn't die once and spends a chunk of his time reviving you.Are you really going to be so convinced in that scenario that you are the hardcore player and johnny is the casual?Sure you may have done more damage and helped kill the boss faster.. but johnny could have done it all by himself and didn't need your help at all.. and likewise he was the only reason you even survived the fight as well.

This is part of what I love about Gw2, There are just so many different ways to play the game as you want to play it.. regardless of your class preference.For me that makes terms like casual and hardcore kinda vague.You maybe hardcore in raids or WvW, but you could be little more than a revive icon to most people in PvE.. same goes in reverse too.

If Johnny truly was a casual, why would he even try to solo a legendary by himself?

For fun, a number of players enjoy challenging the strongest enemies alone just for the fun of it, or to test out a build or just to prove they can beat it.

The reference to johnny casual was more to do with how some players have looked at other players in the past.Using the "wrong weapons, rotations or skills".. basically judging people as casuals or inexperienced by what weapons or skills they're using.Hell even entire classes at one point were a point of condemnation.I used to get a lot of flak several years ago for taking a LB Ranger into dungeons.. because it wasn't the highest DPS weapon and rangers sucked apaprently lolNot to mention in the early days of Gw1, lots of flak for choosing a Necromancer.. because Necros had kitten damage and also they sucked apparently XD.I believe some people to this day still judge like that although it's not as common now as it used to be, or at the very least people are not as vocal about it as they used to be.

There's just so many different ways to play this game that concepts like hardcore and casual don't really have that much of a place in it really.A Hardcore PVP player could be a total Casual in PvE.A Hardcore Raider could be a total Casual in WvW.A Hardcore PvE player could be a total Causal in Raids.

Do you need to be Hardcore in every gamemode to truly deserve to identify yourself as a Hardcore player?.. I'd say no personally but that's just me.But that does lead to conflicting opinions on what defines a Hardcore and a Casual between those of different preferred game modes and playstyles.