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So everyone is getting their mobility CD's nerfed


Anput.4620

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What has been put into measure so Thieves can't just laugh in shortbow 5 spam?

Also what about Warclaw movement speed? Chasing you down with 3 poeple while you are in combat, how do you escape that now with the 6000 second cds on every leap? Or rejoining you when taking a camp because killing one of them takes ages?

Nerf Warclaw speed and shortbow 5 plox ty.

EDIT: So it is just Ranger Swoops and nothing Thief, Warrior or Mesmer? Ok then.

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@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

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@Anput.4620 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Because all classes have different skill, dynamics and playstyles? Just cuz swoop got a cd increase doesn't mean another class with similar skill should aquire the same cd, each has to be determined on a individual basses. Yes ranger is up there mobility wise with mesmer and thief but doesn't mean it can't be on the lower end of the higher mobility classes does it?

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@Anput.4620 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

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@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

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@Anput.4620 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

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@Anput.4620 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Double swoop is 2400 range. Whirlwind attack+rush is 1650 range. Double swoop is more mobility per CD than WWA+Rush.

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@Anput.4620 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

The same amount isn't all that much and they're still left with the exact same options after they've blown that initiative. Except after the patch, turning and unloading a burst won't be an option. Shortbow mobility isn't what's wrong with thief.

Soulbeast lasted the longest out of any class with a killer tool kit at their disposal. Cutting their mobility and sustain, especially relative to all the other class changes, on paper, doesn't seem bad imo. Looking at it with blinders on before you can even play it is just unnecessary stress.

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@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.you are comparing oranges with apples

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@"Anput.4620" said:What has been put into measure so Thieves can't just laugh in shortbow 5 spam?

Also what about Warclaw movement speed? Chasing you down with 3 poeple while you are in combat, how do you escape that now with the 6000 second cds on every leap? Or rejoining you when taking a camp because killing one of them takes ages?

Nerf Warclaw speed and shortbow 5 plox ty.

EDIT: So it is just Ranger Swoops and nothing Thief, Warrior or Mesmer? Ok then.

After the changes, any amount of time I'm not damaging you will work against me even more than this current build where I make sure not to "spam" any resource. Why would I "spam" sb 5 all of two, maybe three times, that Initiative allows and not have anything left to attack with?

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@RedShark.9548 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.you are comparing oranges with apples

Very much this^This post is a good example of why simply comparing one classes skill to ur own and thinking cuz their similar they should follow the same parameters is never a good way to try and argue a nerf or for a buff.

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@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Double swoop is 2400 range. Whirlwind attack+rush is 1650 range. Double swoop is more mobility per CD than WWA+Rush.

Swoop is 2200 range, Warriors still have another weapon set in Dagger for spellbreaker to have a small dash too, Warrior was also never considered a mobility class and has other things, like stupid damage in core.

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

The same amount isn't all that much and they're still left with the exact same options after they've blown that initiative. Except after the patch, turning and unloading a burst won't be an option. Shortbow mobility isn't what's wrong with thief.

Soulbeast lasted the longest out of any class with a killer tool kit at their disposal. Cutting their mobility and sustain, especially relative to all the other class changes, on paper, doesn't seem bad imo. Looking at it with blinders on before you can even play it is just unnecessary stress.

Im just imagining ganking groups on cats running me down and i have no mobility to not get chased and corpse jumped on. If Warclaw had swiftness speed i wouldn't mind as much, 18 seconds on just a dash is insane though, 15 would be more fair.

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.you are comparing oranges with apples

Except core warrior is way more broken atm.

Stealth is also very limited, i don't use either smokescale or longbow.

And what about thieves and mesmers?

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.you are comparing oranges with apples

Very much this^This post is a good example of why simply comparing one classes skill to ur own and thinking cuz their similar they should follow the same parameters is never a good way to try and argue a nerf or for a buff.

Core war is infinitely better. And what about thieves and mesmers?

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@Anput.4620 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Double swoop is 2400 range. Whirlwind attack+rush is 1650 range. Double swoop is more mobility per CD than WWA+Rush.

Swoop is 2200 range, Warriors still have another weapon set in Dagger for spellbreaker to have a small dash too, Warrior was also never considered a mobility class and has other things, like stupid damage in core.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

The same amount isn't all that much and they're still left with the exact same options after they've blown that initiative. Except after the patch, turning and unloading a burst won't be an option. Shortbow mobility isn't what's wrong with thief.

Soulbeast lasted the longest out of any class with a killer tool kit at their disposal. Cutting their mobility and sustain, especially relative to all the other class changes, on paper, doesn't seem bad imo. Looking at it with blinders on before you can even play it is just unnecessary stress.

Im just imagining ganking groups on cats running me down and i have no mobility to not get chased and corpse jumped on. If Warclaw had swiftness speed i wouldn't mind as much, 18 seconds on just a dash is insane though, 15 would be more fair.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.you are comparing oranges with apples

Except core warrior is way more broken atm.

Stealth is also very limited, i don't use either smokescale or longbow.

And what about thieves and mesmers?

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.you are comparing oranges with apples

Very much this^This post is a good example of why simply comparing one classes skill to ur own and thinking cuz their similar they should follow the same parameters is never a good way to try and argue a nerf or for a buff.

Core war is infinitely better. And what about thieves and mesmers?

Core warrior is heavily hampered or even shutdown by blind, weakness, and kiting. Kiting is one of the things Ranger is best at. The only other class that is as easily shutdown is Necro with their paltry amount of stab. Perhaps you should take @RedShark.9548 's words to heart and stop comparing apples to oranges.

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@Anput.4620 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Double swoop is 2400 range. Whirlwind attack+rush is 1650 range. Double swoop is more mobility per CD than WWA+Rush.

Swoop is 2200 range, Warriors still have another weapon set in Dagger for spellbreaker to have a small dash too, Warrior was also never considered a mobility class and has other things, like stupid damage in core.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

The same amount isn't all that much and they're still left with the exact same options after they've blown that initiative. Except after the patch, turning and unloading a burst won't be an option. Shortbow mobility isn't what's wrong with thief.

Soulbeast lasted the longest out of any class with a killer tool kit at their disposal. Cutting their mobility and sustain, especially relative to all the other class changes, on paper, doesn't seem bad imo. Looking at it with blinders on before you can even play it is just unnecessary stress.

Im just imagining ganking groups on cats running me down and i have no mobility to not get chased and corpse jumped on. If Warclaw had swiftness speed i wouldn't mind as much, 18 seconds on just a dash is insane though, 15 would be more fair.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.you are comparing oranges with apples

Except core warrior is way more broken atm.

Stealth is also very limited, i don't use either smokescale or longbow.

And what about thieves and mesmers?

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.you are comparing oranges with apples

Very much this^This post is a good example of why simply comparing one classes skill to ur own and thinking cuz their similar they should follow the same parameters is never a good way to try and argue a nerf or for a buff.

Core war is infinitely better. And what about thieves and mesmers?

Anput, man, you gotta stop. Just stop.

Soulbeast mobilty is being brought in line because its been excessive for a good long while. GS Swoop is a 12 second CD, 9 seconds traited. That is short for a 1200 range movement skill with an evade on top of the fact that Ranger has some of the strongest ranged options in the game built in with the crazy mobility that swoop provides.

Yes Thieves have a lot of shadowsteps, but Shortbow 5 saw an initiative increase which cuts its use down to 2 times per full initiative bar, and 2 and a half times if they have Trickery. Mesmers have been hit in other areas, specifically Mirage, that have affected how much more important their chained teleports are. Mirage actually got hit pretty hard in that regard, but we'll see how that plays out.

Point is, Soulbeast mobility was a lot...it was too much, and the CD increases are going to bring them more in line and not have them be completely ridiculous.

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@Anput.4620 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

Staff on mes saw an increased CD on Phase Retreat, increased CD on Blink, Mirage loses a dodge and as such doubles the CD of sword leap. For Thief, Death's Retreat saw a initiative cost increase, Withdraw saw a CD increase, along with other things and other initiative cost increases that effect all skill use on thief.

So I will ask again, did you read the patch notes for any of the other classes?

Warclaw was already talked about in the balance threads, they agree it is to powerful, and that a dodge will probably end up getting removed, and run speed will be the same across all areas with a possible over all reduction, people were asking for swiftness speed only. If that happens, then you would still be able to out run them. You also should not just be guaranteed escape because you are on soulbeast.

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@Anput.4620 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Double swoop is 2400 range. Whirlwind attack+rush is 1650 range. Double swoop is more mobility per CD than WWA+Rush.

Swoop is 2200 range, Warriors still have another weapon set in Dagger for spellbreaker to have a small dash too, Warrior was also never considered a mobility class and has other things, like stupid damage in core.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

The same amount isn't all that much and they're still left with the exact same options after they've blown that initiative. Except after the patch, turning and unloading a burst won't be an option. Shortbow mobility isn't what's wrong with thief.

Soulbeast lasted the longest out of any class with a killer tool kit at their disposal. Cutting their mobility and sustain, especially relative to all the other class changes, on paper, doesn't seem bad imo. Looking at it with blinders on before you can even play it is just unnecessary stress.

Im just imagining ganking groups on cats running me down and i have no mobility to not get chased and corpse jumped on. If Warclaw had swiftness speed i wouldn't mind as much, 18 seconds on just a dash is insane though, 15 would be more fair.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.you are comparing oranges with apples

Except core warrior is way more broken atm.

Stealth is also very limited, i don't use either smokescale or longbow.

And what about thieves and mesmers?

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.you are comparing oranges with apples

Very much this^This post is a good example of why simply comparing one classes skill to ur own and thinking cuz their similar they should follow the same parameters is never a good way to try and argue a nerf or for a buff.

Core war is infinitely better. And what about thieves and mesmers?

In what regard is core war infinitely better than soulbeast? Ranger cant kite warriors so hard and have more or same amount of sustain atm.

Its not my fault you dont play the strong stuff, longbow and smokescale are definately very very viable and just because YOU dont play those doesnt mean your mobility should get buffed, lol.

Use the tools the game gives you. And if you dont use them, dont cry for buffs, seriously. Anet wont buff mobility, just because you dont like your stealth options.Imagine someone dares to like longbow AND smallscale and gets mobility buffs ontop, just because you need that with your special snowflake build. Oof. Nightmares.

I was just answering about warrior, because i know warrior best and i do agree that thief, mesmer and warclaw mobility need to be toned down as they are right now.

You are telling me that right now in the game you can outrun a warclaw? Well there you have your answer, mobility nerf WELL deserved, cant do that on warrior.

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@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

Staff on mes saw an increased CD on Phase Retreat, increased CD on Blink, Mirage loses a dodge and as such doubles the CD of sword leap. For Thief, Death's Retreat saw a initiative cost increase, Withdraw saw a CD increase, along with other things and other initiative cost increases that effect all skill use on thief.

So I will ask again, did you read the patch notes for any of the other classes?

Warclaw was already talked about in the balance threads, they agree it is to powerful, and that a dodge will probably end up getting removed, and run speed will be the same across all areas with a possible over all reduction, people were asking for swiftness speed only. If that happens, then you would still be able to out run them. You also should not just be guaranteed escape because you are on soulbeast.

Mirage loses a dodge which is true, but most i see don't use staff, the oneshot builds or condi builds, the Thiefs abilities can still be spammed to run away, the initiative increases only hurt when you actually want to use the mobility while fighting, if you play defensive for a bit you can still shortbow out of there right after, i say this as someone that plays staff Thief and doesn't get the vault nerf because i literally see no other staff thiefs, the rifle nerf only affects DE and i am more worried about shortbow.

I don't play Mesmer so my knowledge on skill names is limmited but as someone that also plays Thief a lot the only nerfs that hurt a lot is vault to 6 and some cd increases like roll, nothing as bad as Swoop almost getting double the CD, heck, make it 15s, but 18 is just way too much on something that is just a dash.

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Double swoop is 2400 range. Whirlwind attack+rush is 1650 range. Double swoop is more mobility per CD than WWA+Rush.

Swoop is 2200 range, Warriors still have another weapon set in Dagger for spellbreaker to have a small dash too, Warrior was also never considered a mobility class and has other things, like stupid damage in core.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

The same amount isn't all that much and they're still left with the exact same options after they've blown that initiative. Except after the patch, turning and unloading a burst won't be an option. Shortbow mobility isn't what's wrong with thief.

Soulbeast lasted the longest out of any class with a killer tool kit at their disposal. Cutting their mobility and sustain, especially relative to all the other class changes, on paper, doesn't seem bad imo. Looking at it with blinders on before you can even play it is just unnecessary stress.

Im just imagining ganking groups on cats running me down and i have no mobility to not get chased and corpse jumped on. If Warclaw had swiftness speed i wouldn't mind as much, 18 seconds on just a dash is insane though, 15 would be more fair.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.you are comparing oranges with apples

Except core warrior is way more broken atm.

Stealth is also very limited, i don't use either smokescale or longbow.

And what about thieves and mesmers?

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.you are comparing oranges with apples

Very much this^This post is a good example of why simply comparing one classes skill to ur own and thinking cuz their similar they should follow the same parameters is never a good way to try and argue a nerf or for a buff.

Core war is infinitely better. And what about thieves and mesmers?

In what regard is core war infinitely better than soulbeast? Ranger cant kite warriors so hard and have more or same amount of sustain atm.

Its not my fault you dont play the strong stuff, longbow and smokescale are definately very very viable and just because YOU dont play those doesnt mean your mobility should get buffed, lol.

Use the tools the game gives you. And if you dont use them, dont cry for buffs, seriously. Anet wont buff mobility, just because you dont like your stealth options.Imagine someone dares to like longbow AND smallscale and gets mobility buffs ontop, just because you need that with your special snowflake build. Oof. Nightmares.

I was just answering about warrior, because i know warrior best and i do agree that thief, mesmer and warclaw mobility need to be toned down as they are right now.

You are telling me that right now in the game you can outrun a warclaw? Well there you have your answer, mobility nerf WELL deserved, cant do that on warrior.

Core warriors have way more sustain while being able to use Zerker gear and spike for stupid amounts of damage.

I play Boonbeast with a greatsword axe and warhorn, how is that a bad build by any means? Not everyone plays glass damage builds. I easilly beat most glass rangers with this build as this build excells against glass builds, but any build that also has simillar sustain but way more damage, like core warrior, just wrecks it, all i can do is be on the defensive, kite, and not die as i don't get a chance to do enough damage.

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@Anput.4620 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

Staff on mes saw an increased CD on Phase Retreat, increased CD on Blink, Mirage loses a dodge and as such doubles the CD of sword leap. For Thief, Death's Retreat saw a initiative cost increase, Withdraw saw a CD increase, along with other things and other initiative cost increases that effect all skill use on thief.

So I will ask again, did you read the patch notes for any of the other classes?

Warclaw was already talked about in the balance threads, they agree it is to powerful, and that a dodge will probably end up getting removed, and run speed will be the same across all areas with a possible over all reduction, people were asking for swiftness speed only. If that happens, then you would still be able to out run them. You also should not just be guaranteed escape because you are on soulbeast.

Mirage loses a dodge which is true, but most i see don't use staff, the oneshot builds or condi builds, the Thiefs abilities can still be spammed to run away, the initiative increases only hurt when you actually want to use the mobility while fighting, if you play defensive for a bit you can still shortbow out of there right after, i say this as someone that plays staff Thief and doesn't get the vault nerf because i literally see no other staff thiefs, the rifle nerf only affects DE and i am more worried about shortbow.

I don't play Mesmer so my knowledge on skill names is limmited but as someone that also plays Thief a lot the only nerfs that hurt a lot is vault to 6 and some cd increases like roll, nothing as bad as Swoop almost getting double the CD, heck, make it 15s, but 18 is just way too much on something that is just a dash.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Double swoop is 2400 range. Whirlwind attack+rush is 1650 range. Double swoop is more mobility per CD than WWA+Rush.

Swoop is 2200 range, Warriors still have another weapon set in Dagger for spellbreaker to have a small dash too, Warrior was also never considered a mobility class and has other things, like stupid damage in core.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

The same amount isn't all that much and they're still left with the exact same options after they've blown that initiative. Except after the patch, turning and unloading a burst won't be an option. Shortbow mobility isn't what's wrong with thief.

Soulbeast lasted the longest out of any class with a killer tool kit at their disposal. Cutting their mobility and sustain, especially relative to all the other class changes, on paper, doesn't seem bad imo. Looking at it with blinders on before you can even play it is just unnecessary stress.

Im just imagining ganking groups on cats running me down and i have no mobility to not get chased and corpse jumped on. If Warclaw had swiftness speed i wouldn't mind as much, 18 seconds on just a dash is insane though, 15 would be more fair.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.you are comparing oranges with apples

Except core warrior is way more broken atm.

Stealth is also very limited, i don't use either smokescale or longbow.

And what about thieves and mesmers?

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.you are comparing oranges with apples

Very much this^This post is a good example of why simply comparing one classes skill to ur own and thinking cuz their similar they should follow the same parameters is never a good way to try and argue a nerf or for a buff.

Core war is infinitely better. And what about thieves and mesmers?

In what regard is core war infinitely better than soulbeast? Ranger cant kite warriors so hard and have more or same amount of sustain atm.

Its not my fault you dont play the strong stuff, longbow and smokescale are definately very very viable and just because YOU dont play those doesnt mean your mobility should get buffed, lol.

Use the tools the game gives you. And if you dont use them, dont cry for buffs, seriously. Anet wont buff mobility, just because you dont like your stealth options.Imagine someone dares to like longbow AND smallscale and gets mobility buffs ontop, just because you need that with your special snowflake build. Oof. Nightmares.

I was just answering about warrior, because i know warrior best and i do agree that thief, mesmer and warclaw mobility need to be toned down as they are right now.

You are telling me that right now in the game you can outrun a warclaw? Well there you have your answer, mobility nerf WELL deserved, cant do that on warrior.

Core warriors have way more sustain while being able to use Zerker gear and spike for stupid amounts of damage.

I play Boonbeast with a greatsword axe and warhorn, how is that a bad build by any means? Not everyone plays glass damage builds. I easilly beat most glass rangers with this build as this build excells against glass builds, but any build that also has simillar sustain but way more damage, like core warrior, just wrecks it, all i can do is be on the defensive, kite, and not die as i don't get a chance to do enough damage.

All that sustain is contingent on actually hitting a foe, you would know this if you used your even better mobility and a Longbow to create a gap and spike the warrior down with Rapid Fire, hit him with Hunter's Shot, close in, weapon swap, and Maul him. GG Dead Warrior.

Concerned about double EP plus double LS? Stay in LB and pew pew at 1800 range the first 10 seconds of the fight. Rapid Shot -> Hunter's Shot -> swap and close -> Maul. Dead Warrior.

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@"Anput.4620" said:Mirage loses a dodge which is true, but most i see don't use staff, the oneshot builds or condi builds, the Thiefs abilities can still be spammed to run away, the initiative increases only hurt when you actually want to use the mobility while fighting, if you play defensive for a bit you can still shortbow out of there right after, i say this as someone that plays staff Thief and doesn't get the vault nerf because i literally see no other staff thiefs, the rifle nerf only affects DE and i am more worried about shortbow.

I don't play Mesmer so my knowledge on skill names is limmited but as someone that also plays Thief a lot the only nerfs that hurt a lot is vault to 6 and some cd increases like roll, nothing as bad as Swoop almost getting double the CD, heck, make it 15s, but 18 is just way too much on something that is just a dash.

So, your reasoning goes from "show me the mobility nerfs on Thief and Mes" to after being shown the mobility nerfs on those two classes the goal post moves to "Ok, sure, but they still have mobility period". That about sum it up?

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

All that sustain is contingent on actually hitting a foe, you would know this if you used your even better mobility and a Longbow to create a gap and spike the warrior down with Rapid Fire, hit him with Hunter's Shot, close in, weapon swap, and Maul him. GG Dead Warrior.

Concerned about double EP plus double LS? Stay in LB and pew pew at 1800 range the first 10 seconds of the fight. Rapid Shot -> Hunter's Shot -> swap and close -> Maul. Dead Warrior.

I think they forget that Warrior is full melee, not really any other options for builds outside of not very useful troll builds. Yes, core is very strong right now, however they look right past all the hard CC nerfs, as well as sustain and passives that were a HUGE part of those builds. I also love that he plays boonbeast and is crying about this, it's amazing lol. He plays boonbeast and runs into a core warrior he can't beat and wants to use that as the reason the class as a whole should be able to keep it's broken mobility even AFTER huge nerfs to warrior and mobility nerfs to just about everything else as well.

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No offense about but maybe rangers just not for you. If u main it and have been playing it for a decent amount of time and think its weak than maybe it's time to self realise cuz soulbeast is very very strong when played right and will remain so post patch competitively to other classes. Ur acting like ranger was only class to get hard nerfed which is obviously not the case. U class lost some mobility but still has great mobility after the change and on top gets to have the highest effective range to support its builds. Poor poor anput.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

Staff on mes saw an increased CD on Phase Retreat, increased CD on Blink, Mirage loses a dodge and as such doubles the CD of sword leap. For Thief, Death's Retreat saw a initiative cost increase, Withdraw saw a CD increase, along with other things and other initiative cost increases that effect all skill use on thief.

So I will ask again, did you read the patch notes for any of the other classes?

Warclaw was already talked about in the balance threads, they agree it is to powerful, and that a dodge will probably end up getting removed, and run speed will be the same across all areas with a possible over all reduction, people were asking for swiftness speed only. If that happens, then you would still be able to out run them. You also should not just be guaranteed escape because you are on soulbeast.

Mirage loses a dodge which is true, but most i see don't use staff, the oneshot builds or condi builds, the Thiefs abilities can still be spammed to run away, the initiative increases only hurt when you actually want to use the mobility while fighting, if you play defensive for a bit you can still shortbow out of there right after, i say this as someone that plays staff Thief and doesn't get the vault nerf because i literally see no other staff thiefs, the rifle nerf only affects DE and i am more worried about shortbow.

I don't play Mesmer so my knowledge on skill names is limmited but as someone that also plays Thief a lot the only nerfs that hurt a lot is vault to 6 and some cd increases like roll, nothing as bad as Swoop almost getting double the CD, heck, make it 15s, but 18 is just way too much on something that is just a dash.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Warrior is often full melee class, outside of troll killshot builds, they need mobility to stay with a target. This is a bit OP right now because of warrior sustain and hard CC still hitting like a truck, however after the patch those hard CCs will be doing more or less 0 dmg and sustain will be going down as well. Soulbeast isn't hurting for mobility, they have some of the highest in the game for a class that can kite at 1,800 range, warrior can't do that. Mobility across the board was nerfed, guard GS LoF which is only 600 range, not 1,000 like soulbeast GS, is also seeing a CD increase to 15s.

You might want to read the patch notes about OTHER classes as well. Soulbeast does indeed right now have to much mobility, after the patch with nerfs to hard CC, mobility and kiting are going to be just that much more powerful. And looking at everything else, the nerfs look inline with most others, we will have to wait for live to see how it all plays out in the game.

How are the nerfs inline with Thieves and Mesmers which are the other mobile classes? I don't see any nerfs for them except 5 more seconds on Mes blink.

The problem is that the Warclaw still has the same speed, going OOC when you see 3 poeple on cats going towards you while fighting a mob will be that much harder and this only helps ganking groups.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Double swoop is 2400 range. Whirlwind attack+rush is 1650 range. Double swoop is more mobility per CD than WWA+Rush.

Swoop is 2200 range, Warriors still have another weapon set in Dagger for spellbreaker to have a small dash too, Warrior was also never considered a mobility class and has other things, like stupid damage in core.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

Because double swoop is a thing, both of which are on relatively short CDs. Also, Bull's Charge is a leap with a 30s CD, but then it is also a hard CC so it has a higher CD. Rush, the skill you are referring to is 20s CD untraited. So what is happening is Ranger (Soulbeast really) is getting their OP mobility brought more in line with others. Now if only thieves got more of their mobility nerfed...

How is that more in line at all? Rush is 20s because the weapon has 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon. Whirlwind attack has a whopping 10s cd which is the same as old meld Swoop.

Both swoops will now have an 15 and 18s cd respectively which is way longer than any other mobility profession, Thief can still spam SB5, Mesmer got 5 more seconds on Blink, nothing else, so can still teleport 4k range away in 3 seconds.

Thief, Mesmer and Ranger are known as the mobility professions, and only one of them got their mobility CD's gutted, i don't care about all the other changes which other classes got too with the lower damage etc, i do not like the higher CD's though, but just hitting Swoops and no one elses?

Whats double Swoop going to do when you are in combat with a Thief and their 2 ganking buddies on Warclaws charge at you in the distance? We need to drastically reduce Warclaw speed so you can still escape those ganking groups.

Where are these thieves with unlimited initiative you speak of?

I am saying that they can still spam the same amount so their relative mobility goes up.

The same amount isn't all that much and they're still left with the exact same options after they've blown that initiative. Except after the patch, turning and unloading a burst won't be an option. Shortbow mobility isn't what's wrong with thief.

Soulbeast lasted the longest out of any class with a killer tool kit at their disposal. Cutting their mobility and sustain, especially relative to all the other class changes, on paper, doesn't seem bad imo. Looking at it with blinders on before you can even play it is just unnecessary stress.

Im just imagining ganking groups on cats running me down and i have no mobility to not get chased and corpse jumped on. If Warclaw had swiftness speed i wouldn't mind as much, 18 seconds on just a dash is insane though, 15 would be more fair.

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.you are comparing oranges with apples

Except core warrior is way more broken atm.

Stealth is also very limited, i don't use either smokescale or longbow.

And what about thieves and mesmers?

@Anput.4620 said:Reading again, why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

because ranger has very good ranged options, has access to stealth, and overall good mobility.while warrior is mostly full melee, has no way to stealth without others and has to be able to stick to their target, because thats the only way to apply pressure.you are comparing oranges with apples

Very much this^This post is a good example of why simply comparing one classes skill to ur own and thinking cuz their similar they should follow the same parameters is never a good way to try and argue a nerf or for a buff.

Core war is infinitely better. And what about thieves and mesmers?

In what regard is core war infinitely better than soulbeast? Ranger cant kite warriors so hard and have more or same amount of sustain atm.

Its not my fault you dont play the strong stuff, longbow and smokescale are definately very very viable and just because YOU dont play those doesnt mean your mobility should get buffed, lol.

Use the tools the game gives you. And if you dont use them, dont cry for buffs, seriously. Anet wont buff mobility, just because you dont like your stealth options.Imagine someone dares to like longbow AND smallscale and gets mobility buffs ontop, just because you need that with your special snowflake build. Oof. Nightmares.

I was just answering about warrior, because i know warrior best and i do agree that thief, mesmer and warclaw mobility need to be toned down as they are right now.

You are telling me that right now in the game you can outrun a warclaw? Well there you have your answer, mobility nerf WELL deserved, cant do that on warrior.

Core warriors have way more sustain while being able to use Zerker gear and spike for stupid amounts of damage.

I play Boonbeast with a greatsword axe and warhorn, how is that a bad build by any means? Not everyone plays glass damage builds. I easilly beat most glass rangers with this build as this build excells against glass builds, but any build that also has simillar sustain but way more damage, like core warrior, just wrecks it, all i can do is be on the defensive, kite, and not die as i don't get a chance to do enough damage.

All that sustain is contingent on actually hitting a foe, you would know this if you used your even better mobility and a Longbow to create a gap and spike the warrior down with Rapid Fire, hit him with Hunter's Shot, close in, weapon swap, and Maul him. GG Dead Warrior.

Concerned about double EP plus double LS? Stay in LB and pew pew at 1800 range the first 10 seconds of the fight. Rapid Shot -> Hunter's Shot -> swap and close -> Maul. Dead Warrior.

Like i said, i play Boonbeast, not glassbeast.

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Mirage loses a dodge which is true, but most i see don't use staff, the oneshot builds or condi builds, the Thiefs abilities can still be spammed to run away, the initiative increases only hurt when you actually want to use the mobility while fighting, if you play defensive for a bit you can still shortbow out of there right after, i say this as someone that plays staff Thief and doesn't get the vault nerf because i literally see no other staff thiefs, the rifle nerf only affects DE and i am more worried about shortbow.

I don't play Mesmer so my knowledge on skill names is limmited but as someone that also plays Thief a lot the only nerfs that hurt a lot is vault to 6 and some cd increases like roll, nothing as bad as Swoop almost getting double the CD, heck, make it 15s, but 18 is just way too much on something that is just a dash.

So, your reasoning goes from "show me the mobility nerfs on Thief and Mes" to after being shown the mobility nerfs on those two classes the goal post moves to "Ok, sure, but they still have mobility period". That about sum it up?

All that sustain is contingent on actually hitting a foe, you would know this if you used your even better mobility and a Longbow to create a gap and spike the warrior down with Rapid Fire, hit him with Hunter's Shot, close in, weapon swap, and Maul him. GG Dead Warrior.

Concerned about double EP plus double LS? Stay in LB and pew pew at 1800 range the first 10 seconds of the fight. Rapid Shot -> Hunter's Shot -> swap and close -> Maul. Dead Warrior.

I think they forget that Warrior is full melee, not really any other options for builds outside of not very useful troll builds. Yes, core is very strong right now, however they look right past all the hard CC nerfs, as well as sustain and passives that were a HUGE part of those builds. I also love that he plays boonbeast and is crying about this, it's amazing lol. He plays boonbeast and runs into a core warrior he can't beat and wants to use that as the reason the class as a whole should be able to keep it's broken mobility even AFTER huge nerfs to warrior and mobility nerfs to just about everything else as well.

I am saying that the mobility nerfs on Thiefs are far from the ones on Ranger, Warrior also didn't get a 5s increase on their GS3, we are talking from 10 to 18, that is almost double the CD, what other skill got almost double the CD?

Warrior has gunflame builds and i play melee Ranger too right now so? How is Ranger mobility "broken", we have 2 dashes, a Mesmer wins the range on pure gap closer with CD's up any time, a Mesmer can move about 4k range in 2,5 seconds.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:No offense about but maybe rangers just not for you. If u main it and have been playing it for a decent amount of time and think its weak than maybe it's time to self realise cuz soulbeast is very very strong when played right and will remain so post patch competitively to other classes. Ur acting like ranger was only class to get hard nerfed which is obviously not the case. U class lost some mobility but still has great mobility after the change and on top gets to have the highest effective range to support its builds. Poor poor anput.

I never said it was weak, i just think 18 seconds for a dash ability is over the top and beyond any other non-utility CD besides Rush which is only that CD because there are 2 mobility skills on 1 weapon, 15s would be more fair but 18s is ridiculous. All i care about is parties on Warclaws ruining my day by keeping me in combat infinitely with this nerf, just Swoop, i haven't complained about any of the other nerfs.

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