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Balance Patch Preview - WvW


Cal Cohen.2358

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@Lhiash.4910 said:No nerfs to perma stealth DE? They still can port people after easily hiding in keeps, really adding portal to thief was the worst design decision you guys made.Dude, perma stealth is not a Deadeye thing, it's been there since core, even before the Shadow Arts rework, which I don't think will be nerfed since the devs have been pushing thieves towards it for the last three patches. Daredevil has easier access to stealth—what made Deadeye good for stealthing is Shadow Meld's ability to remove revealed, which can't really do much vs a target painter, anyhow. Additionally, there's not much Thief will be able to do in terms of team play in WvW post patch other than being an infiltrator, so I'm not particularly bothered by this, especially since it will be especially useful in evening odds between stacked and weak servers.

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Hammer

Autoattack Chain:    Positive Bash: Reduced power coefficient from 0.7 to 0.533. Reduced might duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds    Negative Bash: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.666. Reduced vulnerability duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds    Equalizing blow: Reduced power coefficient from 1.4 to 0.933. Reduced might and vulnerability durations from 8 seconds to 6 secondsElectro-Whirl: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 1.2 to 0.68. Increased cooldown from 6 seconds to 8 secondsRocket Charge: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 1.1 to 0.74. Increased cooldown from 12 seconds to 18 secondsShock Shield: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.25 to 0.1Thunderclap: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.8 to 0.45. Reduced vulnerability duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds

I dont really agree with the CD changes on Hammer. Engi already having only 1 weapon should allow for shorter CDs and i know Engis have access to kits but most kits dont have the power most main weapons do. I feel on scrapper i will be running around trying to hit someone with my extremley slow Auto attack alot of the time

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@BoostedFC.6812 said:Hammer

Autoattack Chain:    Positive Bash: Reduced power coefficient from 0.7 to 0.533. Reduced might duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds    Negative Bash: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.666. Reduced vulnerability duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds    Equalizing blow: Reduced power coefficient from 1.4 to 0.933. Reduced might and vulnerability durations from 8 seconds to 6 secondsElectro-Whirl: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 1.2 to 0.68. Increased cooldown from 6 seconds to 8 secondsRocket Charge: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 1.1 to 0.74. Increased cooldown from 12 seconds to 18 secondsShock Shield: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.25 to 0.1Thunderclap: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.8 to 0.45. Reduced vulnerability duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds

I dont really agree with the CD changes on Hammer. Engi already having only 1 weapon should allow for shorter CDs and i know Engis have access to kits but most kits dont have the power most main weapons do. I feel on scrapper i will be running around trying to hit someone with my extremley slow Auto attack alot of the time

I think a lot of classes are now going to be seeing more auto-attacks. I am hoping they are considering this. We don't want to be just about keeping characters in range of each other being the game difficulty level.

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@TheGrimm.5624 said:Re-reading the intent portion of the thread, higher damage abilities should have longer cooldowns, that makes sense. But for the most part it looks like the higher damage abilities received the higher cooldowns but also still took about a 30% hit.

Ye i read that. My only issue with the Damage and Cd nerf in wvw is the fact that minstrel ,dire,commander,etc. gear is in wvw so it could take a very long time to kill something.

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I think a lot of classes are now going to be seeing more auto-attacks. I am hoping they are considering this. We don't want to be just about keeping characters in range of each other being the game difficulty level.

this is also my concern. i don't think increasing the % of damage done by auto-attacks makes the game necesssarily more skilful, arguably it's less so.

but more importantly, i'm concerned it will make the game feel less dynamic to play, and ultimately less fun.

i'm not convinced all CC abilities should do zero damage either - damage should just be an integral part of the overall balance for any particular skill, since certain classes/specs/weapons have multiple CCs, others have 1, others have zero, and across-the-board nerfing to 0.01 for all CCs is probably going to make e.g. warrior hammer feel really bad.

i'm all for increasing TTK and balancing more often but i keep coming back to why you would go down this route compared to just increasing everyone's base HP by X%. This way seems like WAAYYY more work to achieve much the same result.

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This patch is Ele discrimination, Ele's heals, they are not bad, they are trash comparing to other classes, and you still nerf it.Meanwhile Ranger's heals only got 5s cd increase.

Glad I've left the game before this happened.After seeing the patch notes, It makes me not wanna come back.

Bye.

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So you are increasing all mobility cooldown while Thief still has current shortbow 5? Guess no one can catch a Thief again ever, i don't like the longer cooldown approach, always liked shorter cds.

I guess every ganking group on warclaws can also chase any non-Thief down now while they are in combat.

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@Anput.4620 said:So you are increasing all mobility cooldown while Thief still has current shortbow 5? Guess no one can catch a Thief again ever, i don't like the longer cooldown approach, always liked shorter cds.

I guess every ganking group on warclaws can also chase any non-Thief down now while they are in combat.

+1

that what make the 'balance' patch a joke because it still promotes Toxicity

In other word, this patch is repackaging Toxicity into something good by intentionally leaving Toxic elements like Stealth, Stealth Stacking, +1 shot, evade, down state, visual effects, condition, Teleport including shortbow mobility untouched

All It Is; is....Rebranding Toxicity nicely

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Near 12 pages of nerf them, mines' fine.I don't know how anyone could offer valid input on such a massive shift..But here's mine: Dwarf Stance, Barrier, Firebrand tomes offering 8x the support of the original guardian. Can we really go back to the original damage output but leave contemporary mitigation in place without the blob becoming immortal?

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@LetoII.3782 said:Near 12 pages of nerf them, mines' fine.I don't know how anyone could offer valid input on such a massive shift..But here's mine: Dwarf Stance, Barrier, Firebrand tomes offering 8x the support of the original guardian. Can we really go back to the original damage output but leave contemporary mitigation in place without the blob becoming immortal?

jes people will still die, because there are things called cooldowns. And Fiebrand tomes have very high cooldowns.Right now people die in a second before beeing able to even push a button. Having the time to react to use some cooldowns is what this patch tries to achieve.

Its stealth bomb or beeing stealthbombed right now. Wich is fun to some degree, but not the reason for playing gw2 wvw.

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@Kontrolle.3514 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:Near 12 pages of nerf them, mines' fine.I don't know how anyone could offer valid input on such a massive shift..But here's mine: Dwarf Stance, Barrier, Firebrand tomes offering 8x the support of the original guardian. Can we really go back to the original damage output but leave contemporary mitigation in place without the blob becoming immortal?

jes people will still die, because there are things called cooldowns. And Fiebrand tomes have very high cooldowns.Right now people die in a second before beeing able to even push a button. Having the time to react to use some cooldowns is what this patch tries to achieve.

Its stealth bomb or beeing stealthbombed right now. Wich is fun to some degree, but not the reason for playing gw2 wvw.

But you talk fight where both sides have lame blob and they do that boring follow commander thing.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

because double swoop?

Tripple shortbow with Shadowstep? Mesmer moving 4k range in 2/3 seconds? Warrior having 2 dashes on the same weapon?

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About engineer 3 things seem a bit strange to me:

  • prime light beam I always used for the damage. Will the dmg-ticks and burn of the >50% heat laser also be touched? I would like it more if the CC is removed and the damage is nerved to something like 1.5-2.0.
  • Bandage self (4900+100%) and vital burst (940+103%) are not changed despite their large heal coefficient
  • bomb-kit 1 (bomb) has a 1.2 coefficient and 0.5s (effective 0.86s) CD. It's an explosion and has 5 targets. Shouldn't that be nerfed, too? I thought it was already the strongest auto-attack.
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@scerevisiae.1972 said:

i'm not convinced all CC abilities should do zero damage either - damage should just be an integral part of the overall balance for any particular skill, since certain classes/specs/weapons have multiple CCs, others have 1, others have zero, and across-the-board nerfing to 0.01 for all CCs is probably going to make e.g. warrior hammer feel really bad.

Agree. I am hoping they are taking this approach to flatline everything and then adjust back up some.

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@Onewing Clan.6294 said:

@"Lhiash.4910" said:No nerfs to perma stealth DE? They still can port people after easily hiding in keeps, really adding portal to thief was the worst design decision you guys made.Dude, perma stealth is not a
Deadeye
thing, it's been there since core, even before the
Shadow Arts
rework, which I don't think will be nerfed since the devs have been pushing thieves towards it for the last three patches. Daredevil has easier access to stealth—what made Deadeye good for stealthing is
Shadow Meld's
ability to remove revealed, which can't really do much vs a
target painter
, anyhow. Additionally, there's not much Thief will be able to do in terms of team play in WvW post patch other than being an infiltrator, so I'm not particularly bothered by this, especially since it will be especially useful in evening odds between stacked and weak servers.

You are partly right in what you say: Stealth uptime has always been a topic of debate when it comes to the Thief (DP-leap resets, channeled utilities, mobility+stealth reset combinations etc.) and Shadow meld certainly adds it own points of interest. However, I presume what people consider "perma" in the current discourse is the stealth that comes from Silent scope and that is a Deadeye thing.

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@Anput.4620 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Why is Soulbeast Swoop getting almost double the cooldown while other classes mobility cooldowns are barely touched? Warrior has no increased cooldowns on GS mobility while Rangers GS swoop also got nerfed.

What leap has 18s cd?!

because double swoop?

Tripple shortbow with Shadowstep?With the changes to initiative, you won’t see that. Of course, with DD there are also three dashes with swiftness..

Mesmer moving 4k range in 2/3 seconds?Will be interesting if the changes impact this.

Warrior having 2 dashes on the same weapon?And added to some other skills can be effective.

Ranger roaming wise will still have some effective disengage ability, between the greatsword and pets, but it appears to be taking a hit.

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@Kontrolle.3514 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:Near 12 pages of nerf them, mines' fine.I don't know how anyone could offer valid input on such a massive shift..But here's mine: Dwarf Stance, Barrier, Firebrand tomes offering 8x the support of the original guardian. Can we really go back to the original damage output but leave contemporary mitigation in place without the blob becoming immortal?

jes people will still die, because there are things called cooldowns. And Fiebrand tomes have very high cooldowns.

Been a long time since you played vanilla guard, eh?

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@"Cal Cohen.2358" said:Hi Everyone,

Today we’re previewing the upcoming balance update. We’re starting with a bit of process and general thoughts, then following up with a pile of patch notes. Note that this post is identical for the PvP and WvW subforums (minus the changes to PvP build items), but duplicated for the purpose of more easily obtaining mode-specific feedback.

Just watched some of the stream and I have a couple comments so far....

On Druid... It's not fun to play Druid. It's really subpar on both the damage and heal fronts. It's easy to shut down in heal mode and "clunky" to play support with. GW2 needs some big QoL upgrades to support role builds and specs that improve on gameplay mechanics.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/39412/eye-on-druid-ideas-yay

On Necromancer... It needs a lot of work, and we need to finally move on from being stuck niggling over Shades. Necro needs mobility, not more AoEs… They have enough and it's overkill. Please?

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/58958/eye-on-necromancer-for-august-2019

“Shade Revamp

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shade

Change Manifest Shade to a ground target movement skill, and remove Shades and AoE damage function from the equation. This would provide the much needed mobility for necro and reduce some of the unhealthy AoE ranged damage spam in wvw. Let’s call this new skill “Shifting Sands”...“Shifting Sands uses some of your life force to move around the battle field... Blah blah blah”

Damage: XCripple: (2s)Number of Targets: 1Radius: 130Range: 900

*All other shroud skills remain the same, sans the now gone Shades.”

I may have more. Going back to watch the stream.

*Honorable mention- Long recharges/cooldowns aren't fun when you have small amounts of skills to choose from. Kills the fast paced nature of the game. And 30+ seconds while in combat can seem like an eternity, especially when in the first 10-15 seconds most players have used their skills. Watching vids of gw2 and we can see lots of skills on cooldown in combat and players trying to #1 skill their way to victory bc players are waiting forever for some skills to return. I say lower all cooldowns while you lower damage and effects of skills.

*Moa should be changed so players can Stun Break out of it.

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I mean look at scourge and renegade one with absolutely apocalyptic abilities over the other which sort of function similarly but the one on the weaker end of the stick has the most draw backs to it. Renegade has all of the same type of skill where as scourge is not forced into that where kalla is concerned. Players just being near those ghostly charr just interrupt and destroy them where as similar abilities that cannot occur when there isn't anything support or damage wise for them to even have such drawbacks. Then shortbow as the special elite spec weapon which everything to do with PoF makes the weapon itself almost useless unless its people standing on the top of the wall begging to die by the most useless possible method possible.

Of course though actually fixing things and reworking things that need reworking cannot possibly be reasonably asked for so the decision is just to nerf everything that is useful while leaving the same core problems untouched and further degrading any future work they plan on doing because they cannot and will not address the problems that make their job harder and harder. When they changed gyros it kind of looked like maybe they had a light bulb go off that possibly being stationary, micromanagement of movable stationary objects, and anything that locks you down to the point that it tells the enemy okay drop everything here so they will instantly die once it ends. Oh wait did you guys say something about counter play?

So my analogy for this nerfing and ludicrous attempt at balancing the game will be about a turd. You admit that the turd is huge its very very huge of a turd but you are going to try to make the turd smaller in size. Although you fail to grasp that this once big turd is only going to end up becoming small kittens that are going to pile up and become bigger than the big kitten that was once. So take this wisdom that if you can't flush a load of crap to begin with trying to change the same load of crap its still a load of crap that you will never flush. So please enough of this load of crap.

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