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Thief permastealth is nerfed in this upcoming patch


flyingplanet.6912

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ydVHJVS.jpg

There are many posts about the permastealth, but I just want to let you know that the most popular way of getting permastealth is heavily nerfed in this upcoming patch.In case you didn't know the way to get easy permastealth :

  1. Pick "Hidden thief" in shadow art that gives 20% cd reduction on deception skills.
  2. Pick "smoke screen" which is a deception skill. (its cd went from 25 sec to 20 sec)
  3. Use heartseeker in the smoke screen until it goes away

then the duration of stealth should be approximately equal to the remaining cd of smoke screen.And in this upcoming patch, the smoke screen cooldown increased from 25 sec to 35 sec as well as shadow meld stealth duration decrease from 3 sec to 2 sec.So you don't even need deadeye trait to maintain permastealth and now it is getting nerfed.I am posting this because it looked like people were requesting thief permastealth nerf without suggesting specific methods.If you have any other opinions, feel free to write reply

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The issue with Shadowmeld is that it has '-Reveal'...It's a counter-to-the-counter, which I just believe shouldn't exist. If they truly want to go back to basics and address this power creep, they also need to address these micro "counter-to-counters" type of skills.

It's like if they made a '-Cleanse' counter which negates all condi cleanses on someone for a certain amount of time, but instead the best healer in the game has an elite skill that's literally just a 'Cleanse' and straight-up says it ignores all '-Cleanse' debuffs. It's also has a 2 count use.

Like, what's the point of adding in the counter, to begin with, if you're going exclusively give counters-to-the-counter to some and not others?

I honestly think Thief should remain as a high-skill, high-reward type of class, but '-Reveal' should be completely removed from the game. I honestly never had an issue with the overall stealthing of a Thief, it's just that if your going to create a specific counter that's literally intended to be used at specific times to punish a specific type of class, there shouldn't exist a simple 1-button, double-use COUNTER TO THAT.

end of rant

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@"flyingplanet.6912" said:ydVHJVS.jpg

There are many posts about the permastealth, but I just want to let you know that the most popular way of getting permastealth is heavily nerfed in this upcoming patch.In case you didn't know the way to get easy permastealth :

  1. Pick "Hidden thief" in shadow art that gives 20% cd reduction on deception skills.
  2. Pick "smoke screen" which is a deception skill. (its cd went from 25 sec to 20 sec)
  3. Use heartseeker in the smoke screen until it goes away

then the duration of stealth should be approximately equal to the remaining cd of smoke screen.And in this upcoming patch, the smoke screen cooldown increased from 25 sec to 35 sec as well as shadow meld stealth duration decrease from 3 sec to 2 sec.So you don't even need deadeye trait to maintain permastealth and now it is getting nerfed.I am posting this because it looked like people were requesting thief permastealth nerf without suggesting specific methods.If you have any other opinions, feel free to write reply

You're saying this with 4 other sources of stealth on your bar..........

This doesn't kill perm stealth.

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Honestly, the ideal class design would be that the stealth classes had not the biggest burst damages, and the classes who you could see coming from far away where the ones with the big hammer. It doesn't make sense to give enormous hits to classes that can do it from stealth and disappear right after.

Just last night i was hit for 18k insta death from someone in stealth i never even saw him in the middle of 5 other guys i was standing.

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@Tinnel.4369 said:

@"flyingplanet.6912" said:
ydVHJVS.jpg

There are many posts about the permastealth, but I just want to let you know that the most popular way of getting permastealth is heavily nerfed in this upcoming patch.In case you didn't know the way to get easy permastealth :
  1. Pick "Hidden thief" in shadow art that gives 20% cd reduction on deception skills.
  2. Pick "smoke screen" which is a deception skill. (its cd went from 25 sec to 20 sec)
  3. Use heartseeker in the smoke screen until it goes away

then the duration of stealth should be approximately equal to the remaining cd of smoke screen.And in this upcoming patch, the smoke screen cooldown increased from 25 sec to 35 sec as well as shadow meld stealth duration decrease from 3 sec to 2 sec.So you don't even need deadeye trait to maintain permastealth and now it is getting nerfed.I am posting this because it looked like people were requesting thief permastealth nerf without suggesting specific methods.If you have any other opinions, feel free to write reply

You're saying this with 4 other sources of stealth on your bar..........

This doesn't kill perm stealth.

Ikr? You can get "perma" stealth with smoke field, shadows trait +1 seconds to stealth, and hitting a heal for the stealth proc. Of course, fill in any gaps with black powder and the heart seeker that you would already have anyway. Don't even need to be Deadeye or even spec for the deception cooldown. I don't personally care for shadow refuge but that also doesn't require Deadeye either.

D:

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@Tinnel.4369 said:

@"flyingplanet.6912" said:
ydVHJVS.jpg

There are many posts about the permastealth, but I just want to let you know that the most popular way of getting permastealth is heavily nerfed in this upcoming patch.In case you didn't know the way to get easy permastealth :
  1. Pick "Hidden thief" in shadow art that gives 20% cd reduction on deception skills.
  2. Pick "smoke screen" which is a deception skill. (its cd went from 25 sec to 20 sec)
  3. Use heartseeker in the smoke screen until it goes away

then the duration of stealth should be approximately equal to the remaining cd of smoke screen.And in this upcoming patch, the smoke screen cooldown increased from 25 sec to 35 sec as well as shadow meld stealth duration decrease from 3 sec to 2 sec.So you don't even need deadeye trait to maintain permastealth and now it is getting nerfed.I am posting this because it looked like people were requesting thief permastealth nerf without suggesting specific methods.If you have any other opinions, feel free to write reply

You're saying this with 4 other sources of stealth on your bar..........

This doesn't kill perm stealth.

I don't think you get why perma stealth became problem in the first place. It was problematic because thieves can do high burst damage + escape utility skills + perma stealth. You will not be able to win fights by filling the entire skill set with stealth skills. (especially against classes that have reveal skill.)

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@Dawdler.8521 said:Doesnt thief have other combo fields and stealth than this?

I mean if they have 150% perma-stealth now and it gets heavily nerfed to 100% perma-stealth its not that much difference.

The only other Smoke Field thief has is Black Powder, which costs 6 initiative. Youre not going to be able to make up for the increased cooldown with it. And no, thats literally all utility skills that give Stealth. Im not sure how you expect thief to get more stealth given that you can only have 5 of them in the first place.

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@"Loffels.5934" said:The issue with Shadowmeld is that it has '-Reveal'...It's a counter-to-the-counter, which I just believe shouldn't exist. If they truly want to go back to basics and address this power creep, they also need to address these micro "counter-to-counters" type of skills.

It's like if they made a '-Cleanse' counter which negates all condi cleanses on someone for a certain amount of time, but instead the best healer in the game has an elite skill that's literally just a 'Cleanse' and straight-up says it ignores all '-Cleanse' debuffs. It's also has a 2 count use.

Like, what's the point of adding in the counter, to begin with, if you're going exclusively give counters-to-the-counter to some and not others?

I honestly think Thief should remain as a high-skill, high-reward type of class, but '-Reveal' should be completely removed from the game. I honestly never had an issue with the overall stealthing of a Thief, it's just that if your going to create a specific counter that's literally intended to be used at specific times to punish a specific type of class, there shouldn't exist a simple 1-button, double-use COUNTER TO THAT.

end of rant

You mean, like how Resistance can be corrupted or boonripped by condi attacks, blocks can be ignored by unblockable attacks and even evades can be ignored but unevadable attacks (that exist for some godforsaken reason)? Meld is hardly the first skill like this.

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@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@"flyingplanet.6912" said:
ydVHJVS.jpg

There are many posts about the permastealth, but I just want to let you know that the most popular way of getting permastealth is heavily nerfed in this upcoming patch.In case you didn't know the way to get easy permastealth :
  1. Pick "Hidden thief" in shadow art that gives 20% cd reduction on deception skills.
  2. Pick "smoke screen" which is a deception skill. (its cd went from 25 sec to 20 sec)
  3. Use heartseeker in the smoke screen until it goes away

then the duration of stealth should be approximately equal to the remaining cd of smoke screen.And in this upcoming patch, the smoke screen cooldown increased from 25 sec to 35 sec as well as shadow meld stealth duration decrease from 3 sec to 2 sec.So you don't even need deadeye trait to maintain permastealth and now it is getting nerfed.I am posting this because it looked like people were requesting thief permastealth nerf without suggesting specific methods.If you have any other opinions, feel free to write reply

You're saying this with 4 other sources of stealth on your bar..........

This doesn't kill perm stealth.

Ikr? You can get "perma" stealth with smoke field, shadows trait +1 seconds to stealth, and hitting a heal for the stealth proc. Of course, fill in any gaps with black powder and the heart seeker that you would already have anyway. Don't even need to be Deadeye or even spec for the deception cooldown. I don't personally care for shadow refuge but that also doesn't require Deadeye either.

D:

Fun fact: Meld with Shadows does not work on combo finishers. So dropping a Smokefield and spamming Heartseeker will give you the same amount of Stealth, whether you run Shadow Arts, or dont run Shadow Arts. Its uh, nowhere near enough for permastealth.

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@flyingplanet.6912 said:

ydVHJVS.jpg

There are many posts about the permastealth, but I just want to let you know that the most popular way of getting permastealth is heavily nerfed in this upcoming patch.In case you didn't know the way to get easy permastealth :
  1. Pick "Hidden thief" in shadow art that gives 20% cd reduction on deception skills.
  2. Pick "smoke screen" which is a deception skill. (its cd went from 25 sec to 20 sec)
  3. Use heartseeker in the smoke screen until it goes away

then the duration of stealth should be approximately equal to the remaining cd of smoke screen.And in this upcoming patch, the smoke screen cooldown increased from 25 sec to 35 sec as well as shadow meld stealth duration decrease from 3 sec to 2 sec.So you don't even need deadeye trait to maintain permastealth and now it is getting nerfed.I am posting this because it looked like people were requesting thief permastealth nerf without suggesting specific methods.If you have any other opinions, feel free to write reply

You're saying this with 4 other sources of stealth on your bar..........

This doesn't kill perm stealth.

I don't think you get why perma stealth became problem in the first place. It was problematic because thieves can do high burst damage + escape utility skills + perma stealth. You will not be able to win fights by filling the entire skill set with stealth skills. (especially against classes that have reveal skill.)

Okay, so what about permastealth thiefs with portals in objectives? Especially on Desert Border where the keeps are huge.

Most complaints about perma stealth thief in WvW are not centered around 1v1, which is a niche game mode within a niche game mode. Most complaints are centered around the unhealthy interaction which is giving a portal to a class which can easily permastealth in objectives. I fail to see how this is getting addressed.

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@flyingplanet.6912 said:

ydVHJVS.jpg

There are many posts about the permastealth, but I just want to let you know that the most popular way of getting permastealth is heavily nerfed in this upcoming patch.In case you didn't know the way to get easy permastealth :
  1. Pick "Hidden thief" in shadow art that gives 20% cd reduction on deception skills.
  2. Pick "smoke screen" which is a deception skill. (its cd went from 25 sec to 20 sec)
  3. Use heartseeker in the smoke screen until it goes away

then the duration of stealth should be approximately equal to the remaining cd of smoke screen.And in this upcoming patch, the smoke screen cooldown increased from 25 sec to 35 sec as well as shadow meld stealth duration decrease from 3 sec to 2 sec.So you don't even need deadeye trait to maintain permastealth and now it is getting nerfed.I am posting this because it looked like people were requesting thief permastealth nerf without suggesting specific methods.If you have any other opinions, feel free to write reply

You're saying this with 4 other sources of stealth on your bar..........

This doesn't kill perm stealth.

I don't think you get why perma stealth became problem in the first place. It was problematic because thieves can do high burst damage + escape utility skills + perma stealth. You will not be able to win fights by filling the entire skill set with stealth skills. (especially against classes that have reveal skill.)

You don't have to fill the utility bar, you just have to take Shadow Arts and manage cooldowns.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"flyingplanet.6912" said:
ydVHJVS.jpg

There are many posts about the permastealth, but I just want to let you know that the most popular way of getting permastealth is heavily nerfed in this upcoming patch.In case you didn't know the way to get easy permastealth :
  1. Pick "Hidden thief" in shadow art that gives 20% cd reduction on deception skills.
  2. Pick "smoke screen" which is a deception skill. (its cd went from 25 sec to 20 sec)
  3. Use heartseeker in the smoke screen until it goes away

then the duration of stealth should be approximately equal to the remaining cd of smoke screen.And in this upcoming patch, the smoke screen cooldown increased from 25 sec to 35 sec as well as shadow meld stealth duration decrease from 3 sec to 2 sec.So you don't even need deadeye trait to maintain permastealth and now it is getting nerfed.I am posting this because it looked like people were requesting thief permastealth nerf without suggesting specific methods.If you have any other opinions, feel free to write reply

You're saying this with 4 other sources of stealth on your bar..........

This doesn't kill perm stealth.

Ikr? You can get "perma" stealth with smoke field, shadows trait +1 seconds to stealth, and hitting a heal for the stealth proc. Of course, fill in any gaps with black powder and the heart seeker that you would already have anyway. Don't even need to be Deadeye or even spec for the deception cooldown. I don't personally care for shadow refuge but that also doesn't require Deadeye either.

D:

Fun fact: Meld with Shadows does not work on combo finishers. So dropping a Smokefield and spamming Heartseeker will give you the same amount of Stealth, whether you run Shadow Arts, or dont run Shadow Arts. Its uh, nowhere
near
enough for permastealth.

Oh neat they nerfed that back in July of last year. So I have been able to get "perma" stealth with that being true on base thief? So yes you are right the +1 second doesn't work on combo fields, but it still applies to shadow refuge (no need), concealing restoration, and (if you so choose) hide in shadows. Furthermore, you are still gaining the +1 initiative every 3 seconds if you choose the Shadow's Rejuvenation while stealthed (so you can spam heartseeker 1 or 2 times more) in addition to your normal rate of initiative. Although I have never tried the newer updates of those other two shadow traits, as they looked like dookie. Hidden Thief would help further of course, and I don't deny Deadeye makes perma stealth waaaaayeeee easier (for example: rifle smoke field is cheaper than black powder, roll for that tiny stealth, and their elite grants stealth while clearing revealed).

You can maintain "permastealth" with the shadow trait, trickery trait, + w.e trait. Using withdraw (yes, that's not even a stealth skill!) to proc +3 stealth from concealing restoration, smoke screen + heart seeker to get 12 to 14 secs of stealth, or heartseeker + black powder for 6 secs of stealth. I don't know how much more "near" permastealth you want. Again my point was that currently you don't need half of what the OP has for just permastealth, so the balance update will nerf what I presented. If you wanted an order for this short list to test for yourself then do Smoke screen combo (+14) , withdraw (+3), let it tick down to 5ish seconds of stealth to where initiative maxes out then do black powder combo (+6), then at 3-5ish seconds of stealth repeat. If the goal was just permastealth this is the bare minimum. Should you use this for actual engagements? Prolly not. But I'm operating under the goal was just "permastealth." Deadeye's trait allows them to engage back into some form of stealth loop much easier than base thief of course, so they're more practical for combat while having high stealth uptime.

TLDR: I'm assuming the point of the person I was re-quoting was that even after the nerf of cooldowns "permastealth" thieves can still exist with the abilities/traits that the OP presented. I was suggesting it currently existed without half of what the OP had. So in theory the balance update should make "permastealth" harder for non-deadeyes, while still a little harder for Deadeyes. Did this help you understand what I was saying? I have a habit of not explaining enough.

D:

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I think the only way to remove perma stealth is to tie it to a resource that drains overtime like endurance. Make stealth start to consume endurance over time if a player is in stealth for longer than 3 seconds and reveal them once endurance runs out. That way players who use stealth the way it was intended (as a combat mechanic during fights) won't get punished and those that abuse perma stealth to reset fights and get cooldowns and hide in keeps to portal people in will be punished by having their endurance drained. I don't think messing with cooldowns and traits is a good idea to reduce stealth. It may seem like a good idea now but in the future when they introduce new content and add new stealth skills it will just be broken again since there will be extra stealth skills in the rotation.

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@flyingplanet.6912 said:

ydVHJVS.jpg

There are many posts about the permastealth, but I just want to let you know that the most popular way of getting permastealth is heavily nerfed in this upcoming patch.In case you didn't know the way to get easy permastealth :
  1. Pick "Hidden thief" in shadow art that gives 20% cd reduction on deception skills.
  2. Pick "smoke screen" which is a deception skill. (its cd went from 25 sec to 20 sec)
  3. Use heartseeker in the smoke screen until it goes away

then the duration of stealth should be approximately equal to the remaining cd of smoke screen.And in this upcoming patch, the smoke screen cooldown increased from 25 sec to 35 sec as well as shadow meld stealth duration decrease from 3 sec to 2 sec.So you don't even need deadeye trait to maintain permastealth and now it is getting nerfed.I am posting this because it looked like people were requesting thief permastealth nerf without suggesting specific methods.If you have any other opinions, feel free to write reply

You're saying this with 4 other sources of stealth on your bar..........

This doesn't kill perm stealth.

I don't think you get why perma stealth became problem in the first place. It was problematic because thieves can do high burst damage + escape utility skills + perma stealth. You will not be able to win fights by filling the entire skill set with stealth skills. (especially against classes that have reveal skill.)In that picture I see a heal that cleanses damaging conditions, a stunbreak that blinds, a projectile block and a reveal counter right next to the perma stealth utility with increased movement speed and lowered cooldowns. Movement impairing condition ignoring teleports can be found on the weapons. So what on earth are you talking about?

Thief in its current state is 100% cancer.

I mean is this a joke? Look at the picture and think about someone using it to defend the balance patch which changes nothing regarding the problem. Pure comedy.

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