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Babytater.6803
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New WvW Meta?
Babytater.6803
Member ✭✭
in WvW
Q: With the largest balance patch ever coming out the next few weeks, I wanted to see what the WvW forum community had to think about the meta. Do you think it will change significantly? If so, how do you see zerg composition/classes changing?
Thank you for your thoughts and have a great day!
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30 thiefs and 5 Mesmers.
Thank You for the {MEME}
Lots of dead wurms, harpies and wargs followed by 5 mins of afk spawn pippin'
meta hasn't changed since 2012. just stack on x and y servers. when you lose, ask for a gvg. when no one accepts or can agree to the rules. declare yourself the champion.
Spectre [VII] - Wood League Champion. Making "fight guilds" stack on higher tiers since 2013.
Michelin rated WvW guild since 2015. The gold standard. Never transferred, never reformed, adapting and reloading with or without Anet.
I'm guessing nothing notable changes. Some groups might try condi but in the end it will still be the same Firebrand/Scourge comps. I'll even bet groups will still bring Hammer Herald.
[KnT] Knights of the Temple
Back to double guardian.
Or, everyone wishing that many people would be their stabo bots.. But not them, somebody else.
[HUNT] the predatory instinct
Toxic Recycle Meta is the correct name for it
'So, I decided to take a look at condi deadeye.
And oh my lord, why is this even a thing? All gear is level 80 exotics.
This build is so hilariously disgusting I can only advise every not to play it, because wow.'
'Really nobody should be playing this, it's unacceptably [Toxic]'
Why mesmers?
^ Another derailing post - Anet
Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther
Ports. 😜
Thank You for the {MEME}
i wouldn't be surprised at double fbs, especially if that stand your ground nerf goes thru. horrible change imo.
A lot of Firebrands and a lot of scourges. Not much room for anything else. Any other class will either be a crutch or cannon fodder. Probably see a lot of 3FB & 2 Scourge parties or vice versa. Might see the odd Rev in there for resistance.
I expect there to be a lot of answers to this, and it would be hard to pin anything definitive, but here are some things I feel comfortable saying.
Thank you all for your responses! Even the memes lol
Interesting ideas... seems like you guys don't think the meta will be shaken very much with all the power nerfs.
Read whatever people tell you to do, and do the opposite.
So. I feel like that is the wrong way to look at it. Anets goal with this patch isn't really to 'shake up' the meta so to speak. At least when discussing classes. Their purpose is to shake up how fights feel and play out. The general consensus for quite a while is that fights are to short, very 'blasty', and determined quickly. This leads to what people call the 'pirateship' even though at this juncture the fights (in NA at least) don't really fit the classic definition of such. The group that gets the good hit off first wins. People want to change it so a simple mistake isn't the end for a group. This makes it more friendly for commanders who are learning, and makes fights in general feel more class inclusive because when fights take longer other forms of utility besides 'big blast' and 'big heal' have a chance to shine.
If you were to ask me if I expect there to be a drastic shift in your typical party comps, I'd say no. You still need a FB for stab, you will still need a secondary healer to cover for the gaps in the FB heals, you will still need some additional form of offensive boon support/spike, some form of strip to remove the enemies boons, and then the ability to zone an area with damage to cleave downs and the enemy tail. A mass reduction in all forms is unlikely to change that, though I'd be willing to bet with the big patch people will try out some of the fringe classes that were almost peeking their head out after the recent scourge nerfs. What I DO expect to happen is how fights play out will be handled differently, and how groups overall approach comping (at least non pug groups) may see a shift. If there is more time to fight because 10+ people no longer instantly die on a spike, pick teams have a chance to shine. Likewise with the overall reduction in damage people may try to stuff more damage into a party, but that leaves you vulnerable to melee. Now a form of rock paper scissors opens up with ranged > pick > melee > ranged.
The giant potential wrench ANET may have to deal with is that if fights take to much longer than they do right now, we will quickly get to a point where fights simply do not end because warclaws drastically reduced the time it takes to get back to a fight. We survived waypoints every 3 minutes so I'm not entirely convinced that's a terrible thing, but it is something they'll need to watch carefully.
@God.2708 You are right that Anet's goal isn't to shake up the meta but instead to bring everything back in line. However, as a side effect, this patch is going to shake things up. My general idea of a part and its support and damage will remain the same but my question is more in line with each classes role. The nerfs across the board will challenge the main meta classes in their respective roles and I think we will see roles taken by different classes. Who knows though!
Zerg playstyle as you said will be pretty different. I really expect a lot of new classes/roles being tried out and affecting how zergs move, use boons, use conditions, use fields/auras, and time their skills out. It's an exciting time!
30 thieves can port themselves...
^ Another derailing post - Anet
Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther
FB is still must have.
Rev still gives boons to 10 targets.
Support warrior with bubble still very good.
Scourge still does its job.
Scrapper still has stealth gyro.
I could see tempest seeing more play because it still has 10 target auras.
Staff Thief still has insane 5 target dmg on vault.
What will change the most are the stats people run.
FBs will likely use more condition dmg for example.
i guess we'll have to wait to watch how it developes; theorycrafting is one thing, but some plans sound better on paper than in field.
How is this built?
This is what I run when im bored:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PahAQVlFwUYbsDmJO2OrvSA-z1IU8oi/cQFnjIIThQHSgQUACLQF2HHV3A-w
Your toon is set up differently so im intrigued.
Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
twitch.tv/TRMC
Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}
It isn’t Burns toon. Stabitha has a page where they state it’s Dire and Rabid, thorn runes, and the channel has no other info as per their reply ‘it’s too cancer’
Anything thief is deletable per burn.
Thank You for the {MEME}
Dang, mine is cancer (saw someone use it vs me and I got rekt so I wanted to learn how to counter), however the one in the vid seems stronger. Ill have to do come research now
Edit: Theres 1 aspect of their build I am unsure of, however i believe ive gotten the rest down
Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
twitch.tv/TRMC
Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}
OH kitten WHATTDA WEW DO. Oh I'll just get a Rev and spam Pain Absorption till the gods come home, the dragons are defeated, and the servers shut down.
Seriously give me those condi stacks cause seriously I'll stand in those poison AoEs. Cause the next time I see you Phase Traversal Permeating Pestilence I'll probably just give them right back. Getton back to power weapons where thieves BELONG.
/edge
Sarcasm of course you're just bring boon rips or wait till I swap out of demon.
No but seriously if we're talking about Revs and the Meta. Rev stability might become more commonly used if Guardian uptime really gets gutted like they probably want it to be. The increase in range from 600 to 900 has been a big boon (ha) to the skill both in terms of damage and usability because if you look at the upcoming notes Dwarf practically avoided nerfs completely.
Jalis
Forced Engagement: Reduced power coefficient from 0.5 to 0.01
Yep that's it. I can also point out that True Nature - Dwarf (F2 Herald w/ Dwarf ) applies 2 (3 traited) stacks of stability. Revs might be running Diviners instead of Berserker's soon enough... (That's not even getting into Increasing boon uptime to counteract the patch, Demon resistance spam share (Maybe base rev even?), Combo-ing well with Renagade for Alacrity to recover skills due to increased CDs. Tons and tons of reasons for Rev still after the patch.)
Rev is not going ANYWHERE. PERIOD. (Condi or Power Damage is still up in the air. Gotta see how the new Sword 2 vs Nerfed Mace works out.)
Next Meta: Rev/Her/Ren/Scr/Scr
Might have gone overboard with the revs and scrappers but those are the ones to watch right now for me.
I don't think the composition will change much. I also doubt that the used stats will change much.
Perhaps guards go less towards concentration and more healers try cleric instead of minstrel...
We noticed that the number of conditions increased, but at the moment, incoming damage is 80% power damage. The main problem for years was always movement impeding conditions, not damaging ones. Since the cleanse amount is mostly untouched by the patch, the relative amount of condi-dmg goes up, but the absolute stays the same. Especially with the shift from stacks to duration on many skills, there will be little trouble.
A group with power-scrappers, dmg-spellbreaker, and tempest-supporter will have little trouble against condi builds.
Regarding Build-Changes, I only know in detail about engineers, but heal- and power-scrappers are mostly untouched (except explosive line).
The largest impact might actually come from the details.
Big-hit skills with CC that were nerfed from 3.0 to 0.01 coefficient (e.g. prime-light-beam).
Other strong skills that are not listed and unchanged (like shredder-gyro or bomb-1).
In my opinion, these details will have the largest impact on composition and equipment.
That being said, I think this patch is actually great and will lead to more build diversity, especially at roaming, but also for zergs.
I say Hybrid builds and Condi builds will be the meta.
Necomancer Minionmacer Builds
The latter will be viable for a few weeks until people realize "oh right we still have condi cleanses" and stack up on supports once again while the former will be continously phased over the coming months out as zerg commanders yell "where the kitten is my kitten kittens kitten damage you kitten kittens learn to kitten bomb!" and refuse to command.
Ha, no. Alchemy nerfed, tools nerfed, healing nerfed (medkit 1 nerfed, elixir gun 5 nerfed, MDF nerfed, boon conversion duration nerfed). Condi heavily nerfed as well, both pistols (no more 4 burst) and firearms (~50% less durations and damage), but that doesnt affect power and heal scrappers. Hammer nerfed though.
Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.
Sorry, I didn't express myself correctly. While the traits and skills are nerfed the builds stay mostly the same. You still run purity of purpose, despite the shorter boons.
In the end, you will pick the same traits, skills, and equipment (except those that went for blast-gyro) after the patch. And since most nerfs are average compared to other classes, the composition will also not likely change... tools are also not really nerfed in our case since we run lense+steamlined+gadgeteer(mines).
Cleanses stayed mostly the same interestingly... also shredder-gyro, Bandage-self, and vital-burst was not touched...
i'll concentrate on the guardian changes, because they are the ones i can say most about.
Several things got gutted. Damage scaling on most of the weapons. The staffs healing and might application. Healing in general and boon application. I would roughly estimate that Guardian loses about 50 % of its healing.
Now it completely depends on how engeneer and Elemental are treated healingwise. they also got a bit tuned down but may still be stronger healwise.
One thing will happen for sure: The skill ceiling of guarding will rise. it will rise to pre pof levels, and even above. If your guard is bad, your whole group will suffer badly. I think a lot of people underestimate how forgiving guardian is right now and how effectiv you still are, even if you suck. The gap between good and bad will widen by a huge margin.
Healing will lose some overall effectiveness in comparison too other tools. Guardian is not that much affected by that because litereally all his other stats got gutted as well.
But it is quite possible, that healing power wont be main stat anymore.
But neither will power due to reduced scalings but rather precision. I expect something pretty wild mixes, probably celestial making a big comeback.
Staff will be dropped as a weapon.
Mace and shield will stay because they literelly kept all their healing. probably Greatsword again for some spiking.
Ult Mantra will stay, as will stand your ground. and the cleansing mantra, Merciful intervention will be dropped. Purging will make a comeback, not touched at all.
Contemplation of purity will be of more interest as well.
But we will see.
double cele radiance fb's gogogo
There's so many better ways to gear fb than Cele man....
k.
30 thiefs means 150 ports if needed.. and all 150 ports will come out in stealth so i guess these mesmers are quite useless
The "1 thing" you are missing is they 2v1 every fight. There is a second deadeye playing anything, cause you should win every 2v1.
Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.
Shhhh... Don’t ruin my image of death being rained from all around...
Thank You for the {MEME}
Lol, you have ran with Cookie
Don't Worry, My Dutch is OK
No. 25 thieves, 5 mesmers and 5 rangers.
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62658/alliance-design-that-stops-the-qq
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62555/putting-fun-back-into-designs-and-balancing
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9804/idea-wvw-only-movement-skills
The meta is not going to change because ANET didnt really shake up the main culprits. FBs will still be boonspam, scourge will still be Condi Bombs, Scrapper will still be condi cleanse, SBs will still do Bubbles...
This only reduces one shot builds, which I hate to say provides outsider profs some kind of usefulness in team fights outside of roaming.
please show me a video of a scourge using a 'condi bomb' since dhuumfire was nerfed?
Think they mean condition corruption bombs not condition damage bombs like burn guards...
^ Another derailing post - Anet
Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther
Nice meme
Could also become:
1support guard
2 burn guards
1condi cleanser
1to put up cover conditions, also being able to strip boons (most likely scourge) or rev (depends on how rev changes play out)
Why this setup:
Burn guard doesn't see any significant nerfs, if I saw that right and it can already be one of the best damage dealers in zergfights.
Firebrand support is a no-brainer as well as an additional Condi cleanser, as condis will get more popular again.
For scourge I think it'll be a hybrid meta (either cele or grieving with a bit of cele) cause Wells didn't get nerfed that hard.
I see alot of guards going for condi dmg, burn applications are almost untouched. Burn guards are on the rise.
Dmg spellbreaker, what a meme.
Most of those were carried by auto endure pain and auto balanced stance, thats on 5min cd, im already seeing them drop like flies, dmg hasnt beed reduced that much, that they cant be reduced from 100 to 0 in a second.
And other classes do way more Dmg more reliably from safer positions or with better defenses.
Agreed
The temptation is always there to diversify, but it doesn't scale 1:1. When you try to get a little bit better with a secondary role you end up A LOT worse in your main role.
[HUNT] the predatory instinct
What is it using to do this, please?
Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
Hashtag BlameMcLain
They'd do so good vs a group of fb,scourges, revs etc lol
Shhhh. Everything should be cele with stars sigil and runes. Dye armor in rainbow formation, and wiggle your arms in combat all the while shrieking with a high pitch. This display will strike fear into the heart of most enemies.
Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.
Wait... are you on TC?
Thank You for the {MEME}
I can only confirm that at least 2 people in this quote chain have ever graced the Holy Lands of the Tarnished Coast.
Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.
Make it three...
Thank You for the {MEME}
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Draconic_Echo
Uhm... not sure that does what you think it does.
Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
Hashtag BlameMcLain