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In your opinion, is GW2 too hard?


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@"Crackmonster.2790" said:95% of the game, the whole game's bread and butter is easy/relaxing and good content, but raids and top fractals are too disproportionally hard.There are serious mmo's for difficult raiding, i don't think gw2 should strive for filling this niche. It should strive for a balance more similar to rest of game

Don't you see a contradiction here? You: "Almost everything in the game is easy", then "but raids are too hard, we need to achieve balance in difficulty between modes".You understand how averages work, right? To have a balance in the case you described, 95% of the game needs to be made much harder first (what I certainly don't mind at all). Then you can make raids easier.

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I decided to vote too easy because so much of the game is pretty much a joke, even though I've definitely had pretty difficult areas as well. The Eater of Souls in the Domain of the Lost comes to mind. The final fight with Balthazar was a bit challenging too, but partly because I didn't immediately get the mechanics. I've also had difficulties in the final Mordremoth battle but that was because I couldn't freaking figure out how to escape the attack where the whole ground damages you. IMO the game sometimes does a sub-optimal job communicating to you what you're expected to do. Also took me way too long to figure out the mechanics of some Ley Energy Infused mobs, like the stop or go mechanic.

Anyhow, 90% of the content is way too easy.

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I need more Liadri the Concealing Dark/Turai Ossa tier content tucked away in the corners of the maps so I can get my mastery fix please.

I understand some people think certain things are too hard, and that the story needs to be beatable by that group of individuals.

I would definitely not complain if I had to complete a jumping puzzle to get to a really hard fight for a shiny/title/AP though.

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@MoriMoriMori.5349 said:

@"Crackmonster.2790" said:95% of the game, the whole game's bread and butter is easy/relaxing and good content, but raids and top fractals are too disproportionally hard.There are serious mmo's for difficult raiding, i don't think gw2 should strive for filling this niche. It should strive for a balance more similar to rest of game

Don't you see a contradiction here? You: "Almost everything in the game is easy", then "but raids are too hard, we need to achieve balance in difficulty between modes".You understand how averages work, right? To have a balance in the case you described, 95% of the game needs to be made much harder first (what I certainly don't mind at all). Then you can make raids easier.

There is no logical link in what you are saying, whatsoever.

Your assumption(x needs be done first), is wrong.

Why? If the reverse situation was true, the 95% of game was so hard almost no one could handle it, the forums would be flooded in complaints. This is because while we may want and wish for more if things are too easy, they become directly unbearable if they are too hard. This is an extrapolated situation to highlight that your comment defies logic and psychology. Not that i would mind if core tyria was improved to hot levels but that will never happen because it is in the integral monster skill design.

Additionally you can't "average" difficulty, each content faced can be broken invididually from everything else by the balance it is given. Whatever you are trying to say with that.

Nearly all of gw2 is casual/average friendly, the entire up to first couple of hundred hours of the game, but raids/top fractals are harsh and very difficult, requiring both heavy practice, adaption to the best builds as well as serious teamplay, with very little room for error. It is no coincidence that they cannot make people play raids/top fractals, because it has become the home of elitism in gw2 and attracts a crowd that is neither socially openminded nor forthcoming, not an environment most gw2 players feel at home in. There are a few very nice people who help others, but not enough to change that it gives people bad feelings in their hearts to engage with this part of the game, myself included.

If they really wanted to make their core audience expand into raids, while also conserving the challenging content for those who would get bored out of their mind if there was no challenge, what they need to do is split raids into 2 modes. Casual and harder. This is the only way to ever have both audiences. And it may be the only way to secure the interest from the majority that will afford expanded raid content, which could be exactly what the elitists want more of. So it might ultimately be a win win scenario. If raids were easy enough that you could form lfg groups for it and not die too much unless you got a really shitty group, i guarantee you people would farm them, including myself. Rewards could be half of what current raids awards are, but i implore them to not change the rewards to weaker ones and make a mistake like wow did, just make it slower to get things in casual raids, and give titles and other rewards for those doing the real hard raids, but without a split they will never engage their core gw2 audience in the elitism infested endgame. They cannot cater to both audiences at the same time, and the whole game is engineering to attract relaxed/casual/friendly people so they will never get a large elitist community. Fashion wars 2.

Facts.

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GW2 is a mess. The combat is silly and if it weren't for Downed State it'd get called out for it's mistakes.Masses of people getting dropped without any chance to react is silly, multiple attacks without sufficient available dodges is again silly. I could go on and on. The flaws are being papered over by Downed State, where other players are able to undo the event balancing errors.

I don't know how PvP players cope with some classes lacking dodges, others having long cooldowns and the like, but without the ability to do what you want when you want it... well, let's just say I'm not a fan. Why are some relatively weak abilities on one-minute or more cooldowns? They just aren't chosen by ANYBODY! This sort of neglect has gone on for the lifetime of the game and it's a crying shame that these abilities NEVER got their time in the sun (i.e. low enough cooldowns for people to actually want).

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For the most part, the encounters seem to fall on one side or the other of "hard"/"easy", and few are just right.
Drakkar is the most recent example, with its constant melee-hate, poor telegraphs, and pushing/fear happening far too frequently.

Going as far back as HoT, some of the enemies are good. Ish. Frequently, they lack appropriate counter play and operate on rules far different from PCs. Most of the conditions don't work properly on them: Weakness, Cripple, and ohgods Confusion... And that's before the inconsistent application of Defiance.

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@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Westenev.5289 said:I don't think GW2 is easy or hard - but I do think it's somewhat unfair. Attacks require reactions to avoid, yet the NPC's have few tells and damage just sort of happens.

What NPCs have no tells with attacks you
have to
avoid?

Awakened canids come to mind. being CC locked by them is so fun. but the number of mobs that do that are few and far between.

@White Kitsunee.4620 said:The open world is waaaaay too easy.And that's without mentioning that it hasent kept up with power creep.

But this is more so due to how little consequence death Caries now.

-always-

Death never had consequences in this game, aside from the armor repair cost, which was minimal.

@Hannelore.8153 said:I'm not sure if this thread is a joke, but I have my Ele in mostly glass gear (Marshal's w/ Celestial trinkets), and I only barely struggle in most content, even the latest stories and meta events, and that's the weakest class defense wise and a glassy support gear combination.

I can't imagine this game being even a slight challenge for someone on a meta class & build for example.

id be surprised if most players ran meta builds + gear.

And even if they did, i doubt theyd understand how to use it. Given how large the disparity of DPS is between average players and good players.

You're basically saying here that the average player is a moron

Not me. Anet has given the qoute on the massive DPS disparity. Im sure alot of can be put down to no reason to try*(not how i feel about it) in open world, but hey say what you want on that.

Probably because the open world doesn't resist at all and falls down to spamming autos. But still, you doubt they would be able to understand a build? that's low

I do yes. Ive set up builds for my parents and they cant figure out how to use them properly, or they outright refuse to use the weapons attached to the build(super frustrating.). Im sure thats not the majority of players, but im sure they exist elsewhere.

I don't get it. They cant or cant be bothered to? What's the point of playing a RPG if you don't understand your build?

For my parents, one cant(terrible hand eye coordination, really slow reflexes, cant keep up in faster paced combat areas), the other doesnt bother to(hates melee weapons so refuses to use them). They have fun regardless, playing the way they want to, the way thats comfortable for them. Even when they are running around taking forever to kill a mob i can kill in two hits they still have fun.

The point of any game is to have fun, not be top of the food-chain all the time when it comes to skill level. Not everyone enjoys that, i know i dont not now that i have a job that drains me by the time im home, if you would have asked me 10 years ago when i was still in school and not working i probably would have had the same mindset as you, actually i -did- have the same mindset just with World of Tanks instead of GW2.

Edited for clarification.

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I get laughed at and mocked every time I mention that GW2 might be a bit difficult in places for the majority of players. Then I remember how almost everything in LW2 and HoT wrecked me. Then how Caudecus ravaged me for days. The lack of empathy for the average player comes from everywhere.

Difficulty is all about how you spec your character and there is too many noob traps that hurts the average player's builds. I know people who completely ignore the specs and I'm finding that it really isn't their fault that core game lets them do it.

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+1

The game balance is ridiculously Trash; Aoe spamming everywhere, +1 shotting everywhere, reflects everywhere, pullings everywhere, unkillable everywhere, stealth everywhere, evading everywhere, Bad Design mechanics spamming everywhere, Toxic +1 shotting in downstate, Toxic design Thief Profession having a circus fiesta everywhere, anytime.......endless Toxic Damage Manifesto everywhere, the lists is endless...

Seriously, how much harders does Toxicity gets? Absolutely None!

-leave too hard for healthy competitive games who won't put up with Toxicity being a good thing for their game-

Yes in this game, Toxicity is good and the patch wont fix it without the game being completely reworked-1 big patch is impossible to fix 9 years of piles of intentional damages made to the game-

As usual, i left with 6 players in disgust before replying here

(by the way, i don't prevent any new players from 'checking the game out' for themselves, but if they are always the ones to tell me to leave....they have my full support)

--have a good day--

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@Amaranthe.3578 said:

If a MMORPG attracts a lot of players who cant be bothered to comprehend how their build works something is really wrong.

You answered your own question. I think the bolded part should essentially destroy your weird confusion about whether players (1) can't or (2) choose not to understand and properly use meta/useful builds.

The can't part is simple - as you guessed, I agree that there are probably very, very few players who actually lack the brain power a human being requires for understanding and executing a good build.

The choose not to part is also pretty simple, but you just aren't seeing or admitting the obvious. You assume that these people who just can't be bothered to learn are experiencing failure pretty consistently, and you can't understand why anyone would play a game they lose all the time.

However, GW2 just doesn't punish bad gameplay very much, at least outside of very specific situations. You can not bother to actually understand this game's combat... and do pretty well for yourself. The vast majority of dungeons and a good number of the fractals can be reasonably soloed, so you can just get carried all over the place. As for world bosses and meta events, if you happen to be in a squad for those, just take a peek at arcdps. There's very often a huge disparity in performance, and an event can succeed even if just a handful of people are doing so much of the work. The game simply allows you to succeed in so many places even when you have no grasp of the fundamentals of combat. All these people can then continue to not understand how ineffective they are, yet experience a lot of satisfaction and rewards from the game at the same time.

The other thing is that this same type of player who just doesn't bother to git gud probably does experience failure at a much higher rate, but just doesn't realize that such failure is easily avoidable. A player like you or me might consider it a failure to even get touched by a certain attack from an open world mob, but a player who routinely experiences full deaths from veteran mobs in the field might think that's fine.

As for whether or not GW2 should become more punishing, I think being non-punishing is too central to the game's historic and current identity to move away from. PvE is so low stress precisely because the stakes are so low - I can choose whether or not I want to get really worked about about something, rather than being constantly required to maintain a higher level of attention and stress. If I wanted that garbage, I'd go back to BDO and dueling toxic randoms for the right to grind mobs in a particular spot. In GW2 I can just take it easy when I want to in so much of the game world, and if I want a specific challenge or reward I know exactly where to find it (and it's not hard to get to).

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gw2 is the only mmo i have played in 20 years that has rotations consisting of 30+ steps that have to perfectly executed in order to be good. most mmos have far simpler rotations thus the skill gap between average and pro is much much much smaller in those than here. with this sort of combat system, it's no wonder most opt to simply just AA.

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@Burnfall.9573 said:+1

The game balance is ridiculously Trash; Aoe spamming everywhere, +1 shotting everywhere, reflects everywhere, pullings everywhere, unkillable everywhere, stealth everywhere, evading everywhere, Bad Design mechanics spamming everywhere, Toxic +1 shotting in downstate, Toxic design Thief Profession having a circus fiesta everywhere, anytime.......endless Toxic Damage Manifesto everywhere, the lists is endless...

Seriously, how much harders does Toxicity gets? Absolutely None!

-leave too hard for healthy competitive games who won't put up with Toxicity being a good thing for their game-

Yes in this game, Toxicity is good and the patch wont fix it without the game being completely reworked-1 big patch is impossible to fix 9 years of piles of intentional damages made to the game-

As usual, i left with 6 players in disgust before replying here

(by the way, i don't prevent any new players from 'checking the game out' for themselves, but if they are always the ones to tell me to leave....they have my full support)

--have a good day--

Why still play if u leave in disgust everytime u play, it's never changing lol. So many better games out there so play em.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Why still play if u leave in disgust everytime u play

Without pointing fingers: If you watch the usernames for long enough you'll pick up that there are certain players who are very obviously losing fights in PvP/WvW on the regular and then running off to the forums and reddit to rant about toxic / OP builds, and how they're uninstalling because the game is crap, and the devs are incompetent, and the players are lazy morons, and, and, and, and, annnnnnd... we'll see them again making the same post in a few weeks.

Asking this is like asking your cat why it unrolled the toilet paper.

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The whole game focuses on making your life easier the more you stick to it. I'm answering the opposite direction to play devil's advocate. When you first start out, no profs, no account bonuses, no mf, the rate at which you acquire gold is very slow. Also the cheapest ascended gear to craft is envoy's but it requires a ton of collections first. The game has a lot of other "activation energy" bonuses i'm sure i'm missing, but if you find the game too easy i suggest starting a completely new account. The game becoming easy for vets is an intended mechanic.

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@"Firebeard.1746" said:The whole game focuses on making your life easier the more you stick to it. I'm answering the opposite direction to play devil's advocate. When you first start out, no profs, no account bonuses, no mf, the rate at which you acquire gold is very slow. Also the cheapest ascended gear to craft is envoy's but it requires a ton of collections first. The game has a lot of other "activation energy" bonuses i'm sure i'm missing, but if you find the game too easy i suggest starting a completely new account. The game becoming easy for vets is an intended mechanic.

I am going to partially agree with you on that. Having recently started a new account after a 3 year hiatus I can understand how someone who has never seen the game before could easily be overwhelm by it all and finding the most efficient way to progress to end game gear can be daunting. There is a lot of information thrown at you and if you don;t know where to look for information or all the little trick on what not to wasted you time, money, and mats on it can really hinder your progression. GW2 community is friendly, there is always someone ready to help new people.

That being said, I leveled my main to 80 within 2 weeks, leveled crafting to 400 (not 500 yet) and had my first complete build in exotics within a month. Exotics are enough to get you through all the content except fractals, so no rush on ascended. That was in September, fast forward 5 months, I got 3 toons in full ascended, 500 gold in the bank, and a 80% complete gen 2 legendary. Once you get past the learning curve the game isn't very hard for the most part.

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When I do smiting Monster Hunter World, the weapons stats and attributes makes me go oooh, if I get this, I won't get one shot by that monster.Now Monster Hunter builds are a much simpler thing in that game.... but.

When I open the abilities/traits menu in GW2 I go, hmmm, then I just say Fuck it, and go do some zerg rush stuff instead.

I think mastering, and, leveraging the hero panel (skills, traits, stats, runes, sigils) to work well in gameplay is hard.Most of the gameplay is easy, because it is tuned for having a pretty bad setup in the hero panel.Or I could copy a build off the internet. But I really wish that I could do something in-game that works well enough, but doesn't take a lot of research or grinding to achieve.

Since using the hero panel is a part of playing the game, I can't say the game is hard or easy.

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@Bassdeff.1895 said:

@"Firebeard.1746" said:The whole game focuses on making your life easier the more you stick to it. I'm answering the opposite direction to play devil's advocate. When you first start out, no profs, no account bonuses, no mf, the rate at which you acquire gold is very slow. Also the cheapest ascended gear to craft is envoy's but it requires a ton of collections first. The game has a lot of other "activation energy" bonuses i'm sure i'm missing, but if you find the game too easy i suggest starting a completely new account. The game becoming easy for vets is an intended mechanic.

I am going to partially agree with you on that. Having recently started a new account after a 3 year hiatus I can understand how someone who has never seen the game before could easily be overwhelm by it all and finding the most efficient way to progress to end game gear can be daunting. There is a lot of information thrown at you and if you don;t know where to look for information or all the little trick on what not to wasted you time, money, and mats on it can really hinder your progression. GW2 community is friendly, there is always someone ready to help new people.

That being said, I leveled my main to 80 within 2 weeks, leveled crafting to 400 (not 500 yet) and had my first complete build in exotics within a month. Exotics are enough to get you through all the content except fractals, so no rush on ascended. That was in September, fast forward 5 months, I got 3 toons in full ascended, 500 gold in the bank, and a 80% complete gen 2 legendary. Once you get past the learning curve the game isn't very hard for the most part.

And i've been playing much longer than you since feb 2019 and am not that far ; ). Some of it is knowing stuff, and i'm learning methods, some of it is also what you actually enjoy doing. The most efficient things are not always the funnest.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

+1

The game balance is ridiculously Trash; Aoe spamming everywhere, +1 shotting everywhere, reflects everywhere, pullings everywhere, unkillable everywhere, stealth everywhere, evading everywhere, Bad Design mechanics spamming everywhere, Toxic +1 shotting in downstate, Toxic design Thief Profession having a circus fiesta everywhere, anytime.......endless Toxic Damage Manifesto everywhere, the lists is endless...

Seriously, how much harders does Toxicity gets? Absolutely None!

-leave too hard for healthy competitive games who won't put up with Toxicity being a good thing for their game-

Yes in this game, Toxicity is good and the patch wont fix it without the game being completely reworked-1 big patch is impossible to fix 9 years of piles of intentional damages made to the game-

As usual, i left with 6 players in disgust before replying here

(by the way, i don't prevent any new players from 'checking the game out' for themselves, but if they are always the ones to tell me to leave....they have my full support)

--have a good day--

Why still play if u leave in disgust everytime u play, it's never changing lol. So many better games out there so play em.

+1

It's the new players; i can't stop them for being nosy lol. Seriously, I am enjoying many healthy competitive games out there with former guild wars 2 players and at the same time, helping those who want to try guild wars 2 out....not long before they start running out of the door much quicker than i ever did lol I wish i knew better than sooner l

so yeah!

It's nice here and relaxing. The best feeling on the other side of the fence is feeling valued and that concerns matters and most importantly, that Toxicity is actually bad

Psycoprophet, as always...is a pleasure of speaking with you :)

-one thing we have in common-we both want change

  for different results, of course lol
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