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How do you beat warrior as a thief?


NorthernRedStar.3054

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@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:Unless you're running a dedicated boon steal build.

I find high power backstabs while avoiding their damage or cc followed by a second burst backstab has been the main way I've been successful. Or condi burst and disengage and repeat till dead, takes a while cuz shake it off and brawlers recovery if their running it

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:Unless you're running a dedicated boon steal build.

I find high power backstabs while avoiding their damage or cc followed by a second burst backstab has been the main way I've been successful. Or condi burst and disengage and repeat till dead, takes a while cuz shake it off and brawlers recovery if their running it

Yeah, I can hazzle and irritate a warrior from capping a point 'till the end of the world, but find a consistent damage output to actually put them down to be nigh' impossible against any competent player.

Been trying out some condi builds again, which seem surprisingly good as long as you're not against a double FB comp or alike.

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I use SA/TR/CS with valkyrie amulet as it gives 900 forocity and 20k hp. No precision but hidden thief takes care of that. Scholar runes with the power/ferocity is good seeing as u should be stealth'd 80% of the time anyway. Couple backstabs from stealth and few autos should down the warrior. Issue is a good warrior will tine his cc and evades well and if u get cc'd u gotta shadowstep outa there fast or ur dead in 3 hits of 100 blades followed by evisceration. With frenzy popped combo is fast.

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@Antipode.7830 said:Play like it's Monster Hunter. Don't trade blows, don't stand in front of them if you can help it, remember to back up after you get your hits in, and respect the monster.

Against a warrior, throw out blinds if you can, dodge/evade where possible, stealth -> backstab when you can, shadowstep away when each of these options is on CD. If you run Daggerstorm then pop it in their face once their blocks/invulns are blown. Be mindful of Rush, Bull's Charge, Volley, and Kill Shot as if they begin casting before you go into stealth these skills will track you and still connect.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Antipode.7830 said:Play like it's Monster Hunter. Don't trade blows, don't stand in front of them if you can help it, remember to back up after you get your hits in, and
respect the monster.

Against a warrior, throw out blinds if you can, dodge/evade where possible, stealth -> backstab when you can, shadowstep away when each of these options is on CD. If you run Daggerstorm then pop it in their face once their blocks/invulns are blown. Be mindful of Rush, Bull's Charge, Volley, and Kill Shot as if they begin casting before you go into stealth these skills will track you and still connect.

I love the summary! I like that you included rifle, because that was actually on my mind with regard to the upcoming patch. Do you see the rifle changes making that a better match-up for the warrior? Being able to use Volley multiple times, and especially with potential 3 charges back-to-back if they get the recharge on Rifle Butt... that is a terrifying amount of ranged pressure to have to deal with, that tracks through stealth, follows shadowsteps, and needs to be avoided at all cost.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Antipode.7830 said:Play like it's Monster Hunter. Don't trade blows, don't stand in front of them if you can help it, remember to back up after you get your hits in, and
respect the monster.

Against a warrior, throw out blinds if you can, dodge/evade where possible, stealth -> backstab when you can, shadowstep away when each of these options is on CD. If you run Daggerstorm then pop it in their face once their blocks/invulns are blown. Be mindful of Rush, Bull's Charge, Volley, and Kill Shot as if they begin casting before you go into stealth these skills will track you and still connect.

The thing is, thief's utilities have lengthy cooldowns, and warrior's dodge roll alone is worth 3-5k damage on average. The only way you really can initiate a prolonged duel is via IS (Infiltrator's) and Bountiful Theft's vigor. Contrary, warrior actually has fairly low cooldowns on a lot of their weapon skills, which from thief's POV are 'must-avoid'.

So unless you're condi thief, it doesn't seem worth it to me, like, 90% of the time.

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@Antipode.7830 said:

@Antipode.7830 said:Play like it's Monster Hunter. Don't trade blows, don't stand in front of them if you can help it, remember to back up after you get your hits in, and
respect the monster.

Against a warrior, throw out blinds if you can, dodge/evade where possible, stealth -> backstab when you can, shadowstep away when each of these options is on CD. If you run Daggerstorm then pop it in their face once their blocks/invulns are blown. Be mindful of Rush, Bull's Charge, Volley, and Kill Shot as if they begin casting before you go into stealth these skills will track you and still connect.

I love the summary! I like that you included rifle, because that was actually on my mind with regard to the upcoming patch. Do you see the rifle changes making that a better match-up for the warrior? Being able to use Volley multiple times, and especially with potential 3 charges back-to-back if they get the recharge on Rifle Butt... that is a terrifying amount of ranged pressure to have to deal with, that tracks through stealth, follows shadowsteps, and needs to be avoided at all cost.

Depending on our build enough blinds can turn over quickly into to stealth attacks to not leave too much down time between mitigating their sweeps, bursting them down with a good rate, and control to keep them from recovering quickly enough. I feel like that fight has to be tight because I have to keep it lopsided in my favor or they can hurt me more than I can recover and then explode me down.

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@kash.9213 said:

I love the summary! I like that you included rifle, because that was actually on my mind with regard to the upcoming patch. Do you see the rifle changes making that a better match-up for the warrior? Being able to use Volley multiple times, and especially with potential 3 charges back-to-back if they get the recharge on Rifle Butt... that is a terrifying amount of ranged pressure to have to deal with, that tracks through stealth, follows shadowsteps, and needs to be avoided at all cost.

Depending on our build enough blinds can turn over quickly into to stealth attacks to not leave too much down time between mitigating their sweeps, bursting them down with a good rate, and control to keep them from recovering quickly enough. I feel like that fight has to be tight because I have to keep it lopsided in my favor or they can hurt me more than I can recover and then explode me down.

So your take is that we need to be oppressive in that situation. Go in with smoke screen or something, and just dominate?

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@Antipode.7830 said:

I love the summary! I like that you included rifle, because that was actually on my mind with regard to the upcoming patch. Do you see the rifle changes making that a better match-up for the warrior? Being able to use Volley multiple times, and especially with potential 3 charges back-to-back if they get the recharge on Rifle Butt... that is a terrifying amount of ranged pressure to have to deal with, that tracks through stealth, follows shadowsteps, and needs to be avoided at all cost.

Depending on our build enough blinds can turn over quickly into to stealth attacks to not leave too much down time between mitigating their sweeps, bursting them down with a good rate, and control to keep them from recovering quickly enough. I feel like that fight has to be tight because I have to keep it lopsided in my favor or they can hurt me more than I can recover and then explode me down.

So your take is that we need to be oppressive in that situation. Go in with smoke screen or something, and just dominate?

Nothing complicated, I guess in short I'm trying to say, I don't want to mess up once and I need to keep them from doing most of their stuff. Maybe it's been our servers matchups lately but a lot of core warriors at least seem like they have their timing down and can manage 1v? knowing when to ease away or when to rush 1 or 2 of people. I'm a casual player but I'm not about to make it easy for them and let them line me up in one of their lanes or cones at least though.

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@kash.9213 said:

I love the summary! I like that you included rifle, because that was actually on my mind with regard to the upcoming patch. Do you see the rifle changes making that a better match-up for the warrior? Being able to use Volley multiple times, and especially with potential 3 charges back-to-back if they get the recharge on Rifle Butt... that is a terrifying amount of ranged pressure to have to deal with, that tracks through stealth, follows shadowsteps, and needs to be avoided at all cost.

Depending on our build enough blinds can turn over quickly into to stealth attacks to not leave too much down time between mitigating their sweeps, bursting them down with a good rate, and control to keep them from recovering quickly enough. I feel like that fight has to be tight because I have to keep it lopsided in my favor or they can hurt me more than I can recover and then explode me down.

So your take is that we need to be oppressive in that situation. Go in with smoke screen or something, and just dominate?

Nothing complicated, I guess in short I'm trying to say, I don't want to mess up once and I need to keep them from doing most of their stuff. Maybe it's been our servers matchups lately but a lot of core warriors at least seem like they have their timing down and can manage 1v? knowing when to ease away or when to rush 1 or 2 of people. I'm a casual player but I'm not about to make it easy for them and let them line me up in one of their lanes or cones at least though.

To be fair, Bull's Rush has this weird hit window, where the animation and the actual hitbox aren't well matched. And that's not the sole warrior skill; a lot of their stuff seems to hit you within evade frames, from time to time.

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easy, land ur backstab(actually from the back) and spam blind and hes deadwhenever he's blind, he can't use any burst skill, bullcharge and greatsword 5, dagger 3, basically anything that's important, since its all single hit

btw u aren't supposed to 1v1 a warrior for more then 10 seconds, his kit is made to cap point and 1v1, while u are supposed to roam and gank..kk, unless u have to.if u didnt land a good backstab crit to initiate i suggest u rotate else where, as u not only lost ur valuable CD for the actual fight, u waste time for loosing the cap to the warrior, and u arent likely to win because u wasted ur backstab combo in the beginning.if thief can reliably 1v1 a war in a reasonable frame without warrior capping the point, why would u need a war again? yea, that would be no balance.

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@Antipode.7830 said:

@Antipode.7830 said:Play like it's Monster Hunter. Don't trade blows, don't stand in front of them if you can help it, remember to back up after you get your hits in, and
respect the monster.

Against a warrior, throw out blinds if you can, dodge/evade where possible, stealth -> backstab when you can, shadowstep away when each of these options is on CD. If you run Daggerstorm then pop it in their face once their blocks/invulns are blown. Be mindful of Rush, Bull's Charge, Volley, and Kill Shot as if they begin casting before you go into stealth these skills will track you and still connect.

I love the summary! I like that you included rifle, because that was actually on my mind with regard to the upcoming patch. Do you see the rifle changes making that a better match-up for the warrior? Being able to use Volley multiple times, and especially with potential 3 charges back-to-back if they get the recharge on Rifle Butt... that is a terrifying amount of ranged pressure to have to deal with, that tracks through stealth, follows shadowsteps, and needs to be avoided at all cost.

I'm actually excited for the new changes. The new Volley should be 4s between charges while traited. Rifle Butt is actually easy to avoid, just walk into it... It has a small cone in front of the warrior that connects, any where that would be considered flanking will miss you. But Bull's Charge -> Rifle Butt will be a nice combo. Warrior has needed a source of ranged pressure for a while to be honest, and I think these changes will help.

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

I love the summary! I like that you included rifle, because that was actually on my mind with regard to the upcoming patch. Do you see the rifle changes making that a better match-up for the warrior? Being able to use Volley multiple times, and especially with potential 3 charges back-to-back if they get the recharge on Rifle Butt... that is a terrifying amount of ranged pressure to have to deal with, that tracks through stealth, follows shadowsteps, and needs to be avoided at all cost.

Depending on our build enough blinds can turn over quickly into to stealth attacks to not leave too much down time between mitigating their sweeps, bursting them down with a good rate, and control to keep them from recovering quickly enough. I feel like that fight has to be tight because I have to keep it lopsided in my favor or they can hurt me more than I can recover and then explode me down.

So your take is that we need to be oppressive in that situation. Go in with smoke screen or something, and just dominate?

Nothing complicated, I guess in short I'm trying to say, I don't want to mess up once and I need to keep them from doing most of their stuff. Maybe it's been our servers matchups lately but a lot of core warriors at least seem like they have their timing down and can manage 1v? knowing when to ease away or when to rush 1 or 2 of people. I'm a casual player but I'm not about to make it easy for them and let them line me up in one of their lanes or cones at least though.

To be fair, Bull's Rush has this weird hit window, where the animation and the actual hitbox aren't well matched. And that's not the sole warrior skill; a lot of their stuff seems to hit you within evade frames, from time to time.

That is more of a server side issue. I swore I was outside of the range of Chilled to the Bone! yesterday and got hit by it regardless. Happens with lots of skills on lots of classes. Sometimes Rush and Bulls Charge go the complete opposite direction of your target :wink:

@Antipode.7830 said:

I love the summary! I like that you included rifle, because that was actually on my mind with regard to the upcoming patch. Do you see the rifle changes making that a better match-up for the warrior? Being able to use Volley multiple times, and especially with potential 3 charges back-to-back if they get the recharge on Rifle Butt... that is a terrifying amount of ranged pressure to have to deal with, that tracks through stealth, follows shadowsteps, and needs to be avoided at all cost.

Depending on our build enough blinds can turn over quickly into to stealth attacks to not leave too much down time between mitigating their sweeps, bursting them down with a good rate, and control to keep them from recovering quickly enough. I feel like that fight has to be tight because I have to keep it lopsided in my favor or they can hurt me more than I can recover and then explode me down.

So your take is that we need to be oppressive in that situation. Go in with smoke screen or something, and just dominate?

Against warriors blinds are your best friend. Any skill with evades built into it or blinds built into it will work wonders. Weakness as well. Just don't expect them to stand in the smoke field for you. So long as you use your various teleports to get breathing room and stealth skills to initiate a backstab once or twice you should win. Post patch there should not be any Defy Pain or Last Stand to worry about either, so if said warrior isn't sitting with a twitchy finger on their Endure Pain hotkey you'll be able to setup a spike and most likely down them like everyone else with a well placed stab. Heartseeker post stab if needed (honestly just follow up with it anyway).

The best thieves I've encountered, regardless of spec, play hit and run with their ports/steps and minimize the time out of stealth that puts them in range of me.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Antipode.7830 said:Play like it's Monster Hunter. Don't trade blows, don't stand in front of them if you can help it, remember to back up after you get your hits in, and
respect the monster.

Against a warrior, throw out blinds if you can, dodge/evade where possible, stealth -> backstab when you can, shadowstep away when each of these options is on CD. If you run Daggerstorm then pop it in their face once their blocks/invulns are blown. Be mindful of Rush, Bull's Charge, Volley, and Kill Shot as if they begin casting before you go into stealth these skills will track you and still connect.

I love the summary! I like that you included rifle, because that was actually on my mind with regard to the upcoming patch. Do you see the rifle changes making that a better match-up for the warrior? Being able to use Volley multiple times, and especially with potential 3 charges back-to-back if they get the recharge on Rifle Butt... that is a terrifying amount of ranged pressure to have to deal with, that tracks through stealth, follows shadowsteps, and needs to be avoided at all cost.

I'm actually excited for the new changes. The new Volley should be 4s between charges while traited. Rifle Butt is actually easy to avoid, just walk into it... It has a small cone in front of the warrior that connects, any where that would be considered flanking will miss you. But Bull's Charge -> Rifle Butt will be a nice combo. Warrior has needed a source of ranged pressure for a while to be honest, and I think these changes will help.

I love the summary! I like that you included rifle, because that was actually on my mind with regard to the upcoming patch. Do you see the rifle changes making that a better match-up for the warrior? Being able to use Volley multiple times, and especially with potential 3 charges back-to-back if they get the recharge on Rifle Butt... that is a terrifying amount of ranged pressure to have to deal with, that tracks through stealth, follows shadowsteps, and needs to be avoided at all cost.

Depending on our build enough blinds can turn over quickly into to stealth attacks to not leave too much down time between mitigating their sweeps, bursting them down with a good rate, and control to keep them from recovering quickly enough. I feel like that fight has to be tight because I have to keep it lopsided in my favor or they can hurt me more than I can recover and then explode me down.

So your take is that we need to be oppressive in that situation. Go in with smoke screen or something, and just dominate?

Nothing complicated, I guess in short I'm trying to say, I don't want to mess up once and I need to keep them from doing most of their stuff. Maybe it's been our servers matchups lately but a lot of core warriors at least seem like they have their timing down and can manage 1v? knowing when to ease away or when to rush 1 or 2 of people. I'm a casual player but I'm not about to make it easy for them and let them line me up in one of their lanes or cones at least though.

To be fair, Bull's Rush has this weird hit window, where the animation and the actual hitbox aren't well matched. And that's not the sole warrior skill; a lot of their stuff seems to hit you within evade frames, from time to time.

That is more of a server side issue. I swore I was outside of the range of Chilled to the Bone! yesterday and got hit by it regardless. Happens with lots of skills on lots of classes. Sometimes Rush and Bulls Charge go the complete opposite direction of your target :wink:

I love the summary! I like that you included rifle, because that was actually on my mind with regard to the upcoming patch. Do you see the rifle changes making that a better match-up for the warrior? Being able to use Volley multiple times, and especially with potential 3 charges back-to-back if they get the recharge on Rifle Butt... that is a terrifying amount of ranged pressure to have to deal with, that tracks through stealth, follows shadowsteps, and needs to be avoided at all cost.

Depending on our build enough blinds can turn over quickly into to stealth attacks to not leave too much down time between mitigating their sweeps, bursting them down with a good rate, and control to keep them from recovering quickly enough. I feel like that fight has to be tight because I have to keep it lopsided in my favor or they can hurt me more than I can recover and then explode me down.

So your take is that we need to be oppressive in that situation. Go in with smoke screen or something, and just dominate?

Against warriors blinds are your best friend. Any skill with evades built into it or blinds built into it will work wonders. Weakness as well. Just don't expect them to stand in the smoke field for you. So long as you use your various teleports to get breathing room and stealth skills to initiate a backstab once or twice you should win. Post patch there should not be any Defy Pain or Last Stand to worry about either, so if said warrior isn't sitting with a twitchy finger on their Endure Pain hotkey you'll be able to setup a spike and most likely down them like everyone else with a well placed stab. Heartseeker post stab if needed (honestly just follow up with it anyway).

The best thieves I've encountered, regardless of spec, play hit and run with their ports/steps and minimize the time out of stealth that puts them in range of me.

What do you meaaaan? The servers are AMAZONG.

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Warriors are overtuned in this game. They are the only profession that can one shot me with a crit. The only time they beat me is when I make a mistake, not because they are more skillful. This is why I love the changes to SA, it forces the Warrior to be skillful rather than button smashing their skills. You can only dodge so much, but stealth and breaking target lock is the best protection.

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@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Warriors are overtuned in this game. They are the only profession that can one shot me with a crit. The only time they beat me is when I make a mistake, not because they are more skillful. This is why I love the changes to SA, it forces the Warrior to be skillful rather than button smashing their skills. You can only dodge so much, but stealth and breaking target lock is the best protection.

Warrior indeed feels like they're the best 1v1 class by a mile.

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@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Warriors are overtuned in this game. They are the only profession that can one shot me with a crit. The only time they beat me is when I make a mistake, not because they are more skillful. This is why I love the changes to SA, it forces the Warrior to be skillful rather than button smashing their skills. You can only dodge so much, but stealth and breaking target lock is the best protection.

Warrior indeed feels like they're the best 1v1 class by a mile.

As they should be

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@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Warriors are overtuned in this game. They are the only profession that can one shot me with a crit. The only time they beat me is when I make a mistake, not because they are more skillful. This is why I love the changes to SA, it forces the Warrior to be skillful rather than button smashing their skills. You can only dodge so much, but stealth and breaking target lock is the best protection.

Warrior overturned but only time they beat u is if u make a mistake lol u realize how backward that sounds? Just saying.

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Warriors are extremely weak to consistent Poisoning because they rely upon HoT for sustain, favouring their Stances to absorb bursts.

The first thing to do against a Warrior is to force them to use their Stances without actually dying, something which is extremely difficult against a skilled Warrior, but it is still possible.

Once that is down, Poison application while weaving in chips of damage will wear them down for a burst when their defensive skills like Full Counter or Shield Block are just used or not available.

How to inflict poison?

Well, the easiest way is the stupid Sword 2 traited with Panic Strike. It has always trolled Warriors since forever.

Second way is to utilize Stealth with Leeching Venoms for the Poison on hit.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Warriors are overtuned in this game. They are the only profession that can one shot me with a crit. The only time they beat me is when I make a mistake, not because they are more skillful. This is why I love the changes to SA, it forces the Warrior to be skillful rather than button smashing their skills. You can only dodge so much, but stealth and breaking target lock is the best protection.

Warrior overturned but only time they beat u is if u make a mistake lol u realize how backward that sounds? Just saying.

How so? Fighting a warrior is like them throwing 100 daggers at you and hoping that one of them will hit. And when the hit is a crit, game over. That's what I meant by overtuned. No skill necessary. Just faceroll on the keyboard.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Warriors are overtuned in this game. They are the only profession that can one shot me with a crit. The only time they beat me is when I make a mistake, not because they are more skillful. This is why I love the changes to SA, it forces the Warrior to be skillful rather than button smashing their skills. You can only dodge so much, but stealth and breaking target lock is the best protection.

Warrior overturned but only time they beat u is if u make a mistake lol u realize how backward that sounds? Just saying.

Well, it can be taken as 'no setup required, just press buttons and see what sticks'. I see this a lot: warriors ram buttons and hope something hits their enemy. And when it does, BAM - crit for 1/2 to 2/3 your HP.

Timing isn't of the essence when you have numerous hard-hitting skills ready to be chained in rapid succession. Personally, I prefer the classes that focus more on timing.

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@babazhook.6805 said:While poison is big against warrior so too is weakness. This singular hits they rely on are not all that reliable if the thief can keep weakness on a foe. Daredevil line with the revamped weakening strikes can keep a warrior in check. Combined with poison and blinds and you can mitigate their advantages.

The more I think of it, the more post-patch makes me feel like the game's gonna turn it rock-paper-scissors (not implying it wasn't already, to an extent).

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