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Balance Update Update - WvW


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@DeLys.5380 said:

@"Frax.4562" said:Winds of Disenchantment still needs a look at, it's a welcome change that it's only 5 targets now, but it's one of the most obnoxious skill in the game with the trait enchantment collapse especially when a group has a lot of spellbreakers. A tweak to it's duration or boon removal interval would be good, with enchantment collapse trait getting a higher than 1s icd.

It's close to impossible to do anything when the enemies just rush you with more bubbles when they are bigger, and then when the duration goes down, they come with another set of bubbles and keep repeating it (effectively chaining bubbles) until you are dead and there's not much to do about it at that point. It hurts the smaller groups.

This is so true! It's ridiculous that one spell can take out an entire opposing squad without anyone else on the attacking squad doing much of anything. Just waves of bubbles and everyone is dead. How is that considered WvW fighting?

That said, I have to admit, I'm disgusted by all this "balancing" in WvW. Seriously, if you guys spent half your time on new content for us that you spend on "balancing" we'd be thrilled. Every effort you begin fizzles and dies a quick death and the last "
" posting didn't mention ANYTHING for WvW. I guess we are getting the message loud and clear that you want us to find a new realm vs. realm game?

Lol so u think wings skill is the problem and not the insane boon and currupt/condi spam via fb and scourge?

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@Anput.4620 said:Why does the balance patch list the PvP CD's and not the WvW ones? Dolyak says it will be increased from 40 to 60 but it is 30 in WvW, same with a few other skills.

I still think 18 seconds on meld swoop for SB is too long compared to other abilities, 15 would be more fair.

You also seem to be nerfing Deadeye when the concern is actual builds to be too good for Thief, like condi DD or sword DD, not cheese builds which will now be gutted to unviability when the backstab build folded to any tanky target. My concern being that balancing is done from the bottom up instead of from the top down.

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@Anput.4620 said:Why does the balance patch list the PvP CD's and not the WvW ones? Dolyak says it will be increased from 40 to 60 but it is 30 in WvW, same with a few other skills.

Because the devs can't tell the difference and blanket nerf wvw and pvp alike? Why not copy paste their 'thank you for your feedback' message as well? shrug

what are you even talking about ? before you spout nonsense and hate anet for no reason check the facts.dolyak signet on warrior has 40 sec cd in wvw and pvp. not 30sec.

and soulbeast getting a cut in mobility is WELL deserved, a class with such a good long range option shouldnt also have such good mobility option on top.

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@Anput.4620 said:

You also seem to be nerfing Deadeye when the concern is actual builds to be too good for Thief, like condi DD or sword DD, not cheese builds which will now be gutted to unviability when the backstab build folded to any tanky target. My concern being that balancing is done from the bottom up instead of from the top down.

I mean, you said it right there "cheese builds". Anything that is truly awful to fight because it can't be beaten by player skill on any class. My personal thoughts would be like Perma stealth Deadeye. Yes it can be beaten, but you have to somehow be a god tier player (or just very lucky) to catch them imo. I'm an average player and I can't beat it. However I am also playing the wrong class to be able to compete with them (mesmer). My understanding is necros have a really good chance to take em out, but even then it's not a guarantee.

permastealth is bleh imo just in general, no matter the class.

Mesmer is about the best class against power rifle deadeye because they have zero AoE and can't outrun a Mesmer, just drop a crapton of condi's on them and see what happens. Holo's also do fine as they can jump on them, use the reveal and burst them before they shadow meld.

Cheese doesn't mean strong, it just means that it kills unskilled players/bad builds easilly.

I dunno. On my main mes, I avoid thieves like the plaque cause they can steal plasma and bam they get insta boons.

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I don't know but the correction of the skillsystem is in my eyes just one small step of a much longer way that must be walked. There are several problems in wvw (and not just since some days or weeks) that did not just belong to the skillsystem. I know it is neccessary, too but in my personal opinion the whole wvw-mechanic has to get an turnaround so that the mode will be playable again - and actually it is not, especially for roaming or smallscale.

  • Squads should only be a maximum of 20 members, so it is not just singleblobbing the whole time and smaller groups won't be flamed from map
  • it should not be possible to enter a building in downstate (ele for example)
  • player with 5 or more buffs should not be able to go invisible
  • the range of siege should be decreased (a lot)
  • delete stonemist and build an arena or anything like that or delete it to be able to go T3
  • connected server should get automatic the status of the fuller server so winning team transfers are not possible
  • player should get more rewards/loot/reward track like 10% each week when they finished platimum the week before until a max of 50% (and just if they still were on the same server all the weeks before)
  • I know NOT A SINGLE MMO where it is possible to kill another player with just one skill - delete this possibility everytime you find this in the game. This is ppure poison
  • Player on outnumbered maps probably could get an option of a special buff like more siegedamage or to call an NPC or anything like that
  • In an taken garrison it it should not be possible to build up an waypoint. Another option could be that a fraction could only build up 2 waypoints max on a single map (plus spawn) which could be a tactical increasement

I think there are hundred ideas more that could bring gameplay and fun back to wvw, but I also feel resignation because everytime some chance will be at the horizon the most urgent things are out of view....

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Very glad to see the update on the patch. The revisions on stability was a good choice. We never want to go back to how it was in pre hots and early hot days when they messed with Stab. Also didnt see anything about CC and damaging abilities. I really think it will hurt the game play a lot for certain classes/ weapon types if the cc and damage split stays. Anyways keep up the work and stay in contact with the community ^_^

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What about the nerfs to reaper? Mostly I meant the stability nerfs which already is very low on reaper and cutting it even lower will make the class even more unplayable. Since it already is already almost never seen class in WvW and more than nerfs it needs buffs so it might be a viable alternative to scourge at least in some cases.

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@RedShark.9548 said:

what are you even talking about ? before you spout nonsense and hate anet for no reason check the facts.dolyak signet on warrior has 40 sec cd in wvw and pvp. not 30sec.

What are YOU talking about?.. he is obviously talking about dolyak stance on soulbeast given the CD references.

Maybe you should spend some time off the puter and chill out. Then youd look less like an angry muppet lol.

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Hi all, Arenanet.As a Weaver, i really can´t understand the reasons to take a step back if it comes to Dolyak Stance for Soulbeast.

Can someone, maybe even someone from Arenanet, explain me why its more important for a class with 900 to 1800+ range, to keep a better access to stability, than lets say, a staff Weaver with Twist of Fate and, maybe, Unravel?

Before whriting this, i did take a look on Dolyak Stance again, and wow...removing all movement impairing conditions, - 33% damage taken by BOTH power and condition damage (no way to corrupt it), 6 stacks of of stability for 6 sec. base (opposed to 1 stack for 4 sec on stance use by Weaver), and a stunbreak on top.

Staying with staff Weaver as example, what will we get? 1 stack of stability, on Lahar.... the most useless skill in the hole arsenal of a power based staff Weaver (and maybe the most useless weapon skill in the entire game), between earth/water . Its not fire/air, or at least fire/earth... no, its between earth and water.

But maybe i am wrong. While waiting for Meteors Showers cd, i can switch to earth/water, my skills in these attunement(s) doesnt matter anyway in large scale combat, so maybe i should be happy with my one stack of stability on Lahar, while doing....waiting?

I am pretty curious what the barrier gain on using stances will look like. Considering that barrier gain for weaver with this upcoming patch will already be tuned down (like instead of 600 barrier with 1400 healpower, it will be like...??) Will it be several thousands of barrier like scourges for pressing an F-button with no stat investment at all?I doubt it.

And because there may be someone talking about Soulbeast are "not asked for" if it comes to large scale wvw... Weavers are not, too. Every commander will happily switch any weaver for another Firebrand, Scourge, or Revenant.

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I'm disappointed that you are caving to the crying of the masses. Players in any game mode have the tendency to want to preserve or gain play that enables them to gain the largest amount of reward with the smallest of effort, it's just human nature.

Which is why it is YOUR job to balance and decide what is needed, not ours.

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I didnt know that Armor of Earth removes all movement impairing conditions while giving you a 6 sec long, non corruptable, - 33% power and condi damage effect for all its duration , and on 30sec. cooldown too.I also try my my best to not know, that Soulhbeast can right now not enhance its 6 stacks of stability by 66% for pressing yust another utility button, while weavers for a 20% duration gain, have to run an certain elite skill

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Well 2020 the end of thief, the end of roaming or what is left of it as we know it, etc. I mean the heavy nerfs to thief alone will unbalance the game mode to the point that it will just breed unkillable heal bot tanks. So they are going to realize how much caving in causes so many uninstalls its going to be more dead than ever.

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@Sandzibar.5134 said:

@"RedShark.9548" said:

what are you even talking about ? before you spout nonsense and hate anet for no reason check the facts.dolyak signet on warrior has 40 sec cd in wvw and pvp. not 30sec.

What are YOU talking about?.. he is obviously talking about dolyak stance on soulbeast given the CD references.

Maybe you should spend some time off the puter and chill out. Then youd look less like an angry muppet lol.

"obvious" to you, who seems to be a ranger main, im maining warrior and warrior has dolyak signet, which is existed way before dolyak stance.Coincidentely its cd is 40 and is about to be raised to 60 aswell. So for me it was "obvious" that he was talking about the signet.

So yea, i admit its my fault for not realizing he was talking about the ranger skill, oops.

Still, you are the one who sounds angry about anet and apparently me, maybe you should follow your own advise. Im chilling out 4 out of 7 days, every single week, dont worry about me lol.

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@Frax.4562 said:Winds of Disenchantment still needs a look at, it's a welcome change that it's only 5 targets now, but it's one of the most obnoxious skill in the game with the trait enchantment collapse especially when a group has a lot of spellbreakers. A tweak to it's duration or boon removal interval would be good, with enchantment collapse trait getting a higher than 1s icd.

I can see why this is annoying, but isn't this the very purpose of the spec? To prevent/strip boons?

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the only stab that shouldn't be nerfed imo is stand your ground. I get that you guys are increasing stun break cds but only zerg builds use this, its not used in pvp or by solo roaming. it only comes into play with 5 or more people. it could maybe get a 10 sec increase, but anything past that is gray area for me. imo buff group stab sources from other classes or it will be back to 2 guards per party. you have which is awesome but theres still some way to go, namely with radius increases and secondly with adding a stack or two. I get that stab is guards thing, but no one class should have a stranglehold on such a game changing boon.

mes mantra could use an increase I guess, but again no one really uses it. maybe double current cd? pls don't overkill it. i'm not someone who actively uses it on all my builds but it kills me to think that you guys are removing what usable skills there are in this game. also pls buff radius to 360 if you guys are going to nerf it hard...

lastly, winds of disenchantment. this skill needs a buff. a big one. it looks strong, but considering you have to blow 2 cds to even think about using it, is wrong. it says its a 5 sec channel, its actually a 10 sec channel. lets fix this. this is what I imagine: 60 sec cd, 5 target, 5 sec duration, 5 sec block. yes that's right, add a block. there are plenty of unblockables out there that will counter this, and it might actually see some use in pvp or even roaming.

editinstead of a block maybe -50% damage reduction.

editok, ok. one last thing, honest. pls don't do 250% cd increases to some skills that have big animations. it makes those weapons useless, since ppl are more likely to dodge those attacks completely and thus the entire attack, then faster animations with channels or whatnot. you're pretty much guaranteed to get damage on those. don't kill diversity anet.

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@EagleDelta.4726 said:

@Frax.4562 said:Winds of Disenchantment still needs a look at, it's a welcome change that it's only 5 targets now, but it's one of the most obnoxious skill in the game with the trait enchantment collapse especially when a group has a lot of spellbreakers. A tweak to it's duration or boon removal interval would be good, with enchantment collapse trait getting a higher than 1s icd.

I can see why this is annoying, but isn't this the very purpose of the spec? To prevent/strip boons?

The very purpose of Druid is to heal allies and they've never been good in a zerg

@Celsith.2753 said:I'm disappointed that you are caving to the crying of the masses. Players in any game mode have the tendency to want to preserve or gain play that enables them to gain the largest amount of reward with the smallest of effort, it's just human nature.

Which is why it is YOUR job to balance and decide what is needed, not ours.

Yes, bringing back pirate ship because no one can push into a zerg and avoid getting stun locked and eating 5 un-nerfed CoR's to the face is deffinitly what WvW needs

@Jeran.6850 said:I didnt know that Armor of Earth removes all movement impairing conditions while giving you a 6 sec long, non corruptable, - 33% power and condi damage effect for all its duration , and on 30sec. cooldown too.I also try my my best to not know, that Soulhbeast can right now not enhance its 6 stacks of stability by 66% for pressing yust another utility button, while weavers for a 20% duration gain, have to run an certain elite skill

Just go play fire staff meteor spam in a zerg liek every other Ele and let rangers have the one thing they can actually do well in WvW

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@Arctisavange.7261 said:Siege is suppose to be there to delay enemies knocking on your keep til your people show up, not push them away.

Where does it say this? I didn't read that in the manual/in-game tutorial ;)

Seriously, though. ACs don't do anything to a giant zerg, because they have more than 50 people - so they just mitigate the damage (i.e. share it). Frankly there should not be any target cap on siege. This is yet another example of SNOWBALLING, where giant, dominant groups gain even more benefits.

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Lmao, excuse to give thieves perma stealth is cause they can't avoid zergs, maybe get some map awareness in a zone which can hold 100+ enemies, plus the thing called mounts, you think thieves have it tough? what about the classes that don't have stealth and have to avoid those zergs too, what a joke.

Last few roamers, gee I wonder why, could it be the power creep of 5 years that has left stealth and mobility and crazy tank specs the best roamers? and if you're playing a class with limited access to any of those you have no choice but to be in a group to survive crazy one shot skills and combos, and some specs have so much support that even running just one of them turns the tide in fights.

Every class is getting toned down this patch, not just thieves, who will still have a huge stealth and mobility advantage. Too many extremes in damage and support in the game that they've had to constantly one up to the other side of balance to try and fix it but only make it worse.

But yeah, sure, the game was in a good place that you were still enjoying.... oh wait you had already left the game.

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@XenesisII.1540 said:Lmao, excuse to give thieves perma stealth is cause they can't avoid zergs, maybe get some map awareness in a zone which can hold 100+ enemies, plus the thing called mounts, you think thieves have it tough? what about the classes that don't have stealth and have to avoid those zergs too, what a joke.

Last few roamers, gee I wonder why, could it be the power creep of 5 years that has left stealth and mobility and crazy tank specs the best roamers? and if you're playing a class with limited access to any of those you have no choice but to be in a group to survive crazy one shot skills and combos, and some specs have so much support that even running just one of them turns the tide in fights.

Every class is getting toned down this patch, not just thieves, who will still have a huge stealth and mobility advantage. Too many extremes in damage and support in the game that they've had to constantly one up to the other side of balance to try and fix it but only make it worse.

But yeah, sure, the game was in a good place that you were still enjoying.... oh wait you had already left the game.

I have to agree no one can seriously think thief perma stealthing is a thing because they can't avoid zergs,that's just silly.Perma stealth exist on thieves because it's this games stealth rogue class just as it exists on the rogues of other mmo's, that's thieves excuse to why it's a thing :)

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