Song of the Mists and Draconic Echo suggestions.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Hi guys (hope devs are reading this). Happy herald support here but I got issues with these two traits.One feels gimped vs bosses, other incosistent in it's behaviour.

Song of the Mists - for the skills that are based on amount of mobs hit (Shiro, Jalis) I would propose it also considers the type of mobs it hits (champs vs normal). If i'm fighting a champion or above I feel Song of the mists should activate at full power (as in hitting 5 normal mobs). I feel that would make it more versatile and in line with other two Invocation grandmaster choices which are great regardless if mobbing or bossing.

Draconic Echoes - I'm not sure if after consuming a facet the 6 second face passive from trait doesn't go back to normal version (only 5 ppl affected). This can be a huge let down in terms of Herald raid viability. Without a unique boon to bring to a table as Herald (nor superior damage) my selling point is keeping full squad buffed with standard boons 24/7. If this falls off back to 5 the moment i consume a skill, then that's an issue.

As for an issue I am certain of - True Nature is not affected at all, and that feels wrong.3 out of 5 True Nature versions are support casts for your allies (True Nature Dragon, Centaur, Dwarf). If 10 allies were supported by my traited Facet of Nature, then also 10 should receive the effect of my True Nature cast - consistency.

[Yasai.3549]

Yea I think SotM could use something like this.

Maybe not full effect, maybe the effect of 3 targets.

Full effect will make it abit too strong when compared to the other two traits.

[Shao.7236]

SotM is in a good spot aside the Renegade one that should inflict Cripple with the rest, target based swaps while I agree being niche at 5 targets are already strong from the start still so it's hard to ask for a change.

Draconic Echo always made facets to be 10 targets worth no matter the situation, if they aren't that's a bug in need of a fix. Regardless, this trait (Like the entirety of the profession) is meant to encourage players to synergize legends together and it does well at it.

In PvE, Fury/Swiftness/Might without boon duration can be kept up permanently because of that trait, that's if the flow is kept properly. Also to disagree, all Facets of Nature are provides a form of support, only different uses.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

@"Shao.7236" said:Also to disagree, all Facets of Nature are provides a form of support, only different uses.

I think you missed the point there. When I said "3 outta 5 provide support" i meant True Nature - the follow up cast on F2 (Facet of Nature). Unlike Facet itself it is not affected by Draconic Echoes 10 man target improvement and that hurts.

[Rodrick.1942]

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@"Shao.7236" said:Also to disagree, all Facets of Nature are provides a form of support, only different uses.

I think you missed the point there. When I said "3 outta 5 provide support" i meant True Nature - the follow up cast on F2 (Facet of Nature). Unlike Facet itself it is not affected by Draconic Echoes 10 man target improvement and that hurts.

Yes you want the follow up cast on F2(True nature) can affect 10 people with that trait too, but it looks like Anet just want Facet's passive effect can apply to 10 people, not including the active skill.

if they tweak the trait to let it to hit 10 target on both passive and active skill, that will be great but also a bit over powered. Other class will also ask to have a skill that allow them to hit 10 target, not just 5.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

@Rodrick.1942 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@"Shao.7236" said:Also to disagree, all Facets of Nature are provides a form of support, only different uses.

I think you missed the point there. When I said "3 outta 5 provide support" i meant True Nature - the follow up cast on F2 (Facet of Nature). Unlike Facet itself it is not affected by Draconic Echoes 10 man target improvement and that hurts.

Yes you want the follow up cast on F2(True nature) can affect 10 people with that trait too, but it looks like Anet just want Facet's passive effect can apply to 10 people, not including the active skill.

if they tweak the trait to let it to hit 10 target on both passive and active skill, that will be great but also a bit over powered. Other class will also ask to have a skill that allow them to hit 10 target, not just 5.

I would disagree about being overpowered. It's a trade off. Herald has no access to the most in-demand boons (quickness, alacrity), nor is his damage off the charts compared to others. Contrary to Renegade who has both. So instead of all that, Herald thrives by being a "Support's support", providing whole raid with standard boon coverage and extending their boon duration.

Now as far as True Nature and why it should be 10 man if traited with Draconic Echoes, by each legend:

Dwarf - casts stab. Totally in line with Herald's role - boon support with 10 man capability.Centaur - casts a condi cleanse that heals - nothing broken. The passive heals every few secs and can affect 10 ppl.Demon - transfers 2-3 condies to enemies. That can can stay as is, it's personal tool.Assassin - strips boon from nearby enemies - can stay as is, though 10 men wouldn't be disastrous either - it does not do any damage.Dragon - extends boons present on allies by 3s. Core of Herald's support style and should be 10 men as well if traited.

[Infusion.7149]

Is this post for PvE or WvW? If it's for WvW, draconic echo is taken because 10 person fury is more useful than anything else you can do short of switching to dwarf legend and casting Inspiring Reinforcement across a chokepoint for pulsing stability or Rite of the Great Dwarf for 50% damage reduction.In a post-patch situation if conditions become strong, Mallyx still isn't as strong as Scrapper condi cleanses. Also the burning on mace will be hit per the patch preview notes, so unless someone stands in the fields the effectiveness isn't going to be massive.

Because CoR has an invuln duration when multiple players hit with it , the CoR "value" is lower than Phase Smash which is circular AoE with chill. This will still hold true after the patch.

For PvE, since people usually stay in a singular position for boss fights, there's more might+fury generation so the herald is not as wanted compared to renegade which can provide alacrity in a large area without much effort.

[Rodrick.1942]

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@Rodrick.1942 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@"Shao.7236" said:Also to disagree, all Facets of Nature are provides a form of support, only different uses.

I think you missed the point there. When I said "3 outta 5 provide support" i meant True Nature - the follow up cast on F2 (Facet of Nature). Unlike Facet itself it is not affected by Draconic Echoes 10 man target improvement and that hurts.

Yes you want the follow up cast on F2(True nature) can affect 10 people with that trait too, but it looks like Anet just want Facet's passive effect can apply to 10 people, not including the active skill.

if they tweak the trait to let it to hit 10 target on both passive and active skill, that will be great but also a bit over powered. Other class will also ask to have a skill that allow them to hit 10 target, not just 5.

I would disagree about being overpowered. It's a trade off. Herald has no access to the most in-demand boons (quickness, alacrity), nor is his damage off the charts compared to others. Contrary to Renegade who has both. So instead of all that, Herald thrives by being a "Support's support", providing whole raid with standard boon coverage and extending their boon duration.

Now as far as True Nature and why it should be 10 man if traited with Draconic Echoes, by each legend:

Dwarf - casts stab. Totally in line with Herald's role - boon support with 10 man capability.Centaur - casts a condi cleanse that heals - nothing broken. The passive heals every few secs and can affect 10 ppl.Demon - transfers 2-3 condies to enemies. That can can stay as is, it's personal tool.Assassin - strips boon from nearby enemies - can stay as is, though 10 men wouldn't be disastrous either - it does not do any damage.Dragon - extends boons present on allies by 3s. Core of Herald's support style and should be 10 men as well if traited.

Sadly the F2 follow up skill on shiro and mallyx are also a damage skills too, shiro will be able to deal 1.5 k base damage to 10 people plus boon rip, mallyx will transfer 3 Condi you have to nearby 10 enemies as well. I think they're the reason why is this not a good idea ( it'll break the balance in wvw )

My concern is A net might following up a rule they made before like " damage skills can only hit 5 target, support can hit 5~10 depend on situation. True Nature has 2 out of 5 damage skills so it can't happen although the rest are support-oriented skills