Can We Nerf The Functionality Of Riposting Shadows Instead Of The Energy Cost?

[Xca.9721]

There is a reason we barely use the Shiro Elite, it has high energy cost (50). With the upcoming increase of energy cost for Riposting Shadows from 30 to 40 I am worried that Shiro becomes a 3-skill-legend, which contradicts the "focus on gameplay being more active". Keep in mind that weapon skills also cost energy.

I am fine with removing Empty Vessel (Stunbreak on Legend Swap), but could we at least not nerf the energy cost of Riposting Shadow and instead nerf the Functionality?Give it an internal cooldown so we can´t spam it, remove the endurance gain, i don´t care, as long as I have a reliable stunbreak that doesn´t cost me all my energy.

[Tycura.1982]

But you already can't spam it if it costs all your energy silly

[Tayga.3192]

They can't nerf its functionality, hopefully they won't forget to discuss it with "skills team" after the patch.

A good nerf would be 35 energy and some vigor instead of endurance so it wouldn't be evade into more evade.

[Yasai.3549]

I feel like they can nerf Riposting Shadow but this shouldn't be ALL they do.

They need to add RELIABLE Stunbreaks to other Legends too.Ventari relies totally on Empty Vessel for Stunbreaking.Jalis has a Stunbreak but it takes all his energy and has a cast time (Stunbreak with Cast time. Just wow)

If these two Legends are given reliable Stunbreaks, Empty Vessel's removal will be smoother.

Once this is done, we can tone down Riposting Shadows, and let other Legends finally see more usage because they aren't being held back due to lacking the mechanical superiority of the entire Shiro Legend set.

[shadowpass.4236]

You can use the stunbreak and still be able to cast the rest of your weapon skills with the 10 you have left + energy regen.

[Yasai.3549]

@shadowpass.4236 said:You can use the stunbreak and still be able to cast the rest of your weapon skills with the 10 you have left + energy regen

Not the point.

Point is that this whole nerf pattern is spelling doom for the future of Rev balancing because Utilities are gonna get to the point that they are just so expensive that using one totally locks a Rev out of doing anything.

What's gonna be next?

Rev still feel strong - slap on 10 more Energy cost.

Rev still feel strong!!!??? - here have another 10 energy cost

Whaaaat this skill stillll stronggg??? Fine we rework it and make it cost alot of Energy ( this happened to Call to Anguish)

[Math.5123]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:You can use the stunbreak and still be able to cast the rest of your weapon skills with the 10 you have left + energy regen

Not the point.

Point is that this whole nerf pattern is spelling doom for the future of Rev balancing because Utilities are gonna get to the point that they are just so expensive that using one totally locks a Rev out of doing anything.

What's gonna be next?

Rev still feel strong - slap on 10 more Energy cost.

Rev still feel strong!!!??? - here have another 10 energy cost

Whaaaat this skill stillll stronggg??? Fine we rework it and make it cost alot of Energy ( this happened to Call to Anguish)

All other classes ate cooldown increases on a lot of their abilities.

[Yasai.3549]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

All other classes ate cooldown increases on a lot of their abilities.

They don't have the same Ammo system like Rev does governing both Utilities and Weapon skills.

Every other class can stunbreak and proceed to counter attack immediately with weapon skills or other utilities.Rev hits Stunbreak once through Riposting Shadows and all their energy is gone, locking them out of weapon skills and other utilities for at least 2 - 4 seconds.

Glint has it easier because Facets function similarly to traditional cooldowns upon flipskill activation, which is pretty balanced.Mallyx costs 30 energy which is already a hefty chunk and the same cost as Shiro's Riposting Shadows right now, granted not as overloaded because it only gives a small Resistance boon and a little bonus for each Condi absorbed from allies.

And if the trend continues, it's gonna get worse.Anet has to address this now, and not when Rev utilities start costing 50 Energy each.

Nerf Riposting Shadows, reduce the utility overload, keep the Energy cost low.

[Shao.7236]

@shadowpass.4236 said:You can use the stunbreak and still be able to cast the rest of your weapon skills with the 10 you have left + energy regen.

Yeah it's shocking how the majority miss the point with the new invocation rework. It's called /Riposting/ Shadow for a reason but never was used that way.

The moment legend swap occurs and people have to press the stunbreak, they will already be at 15%+ and choose to have stability if they want to.

I love this patch so much. It puts everything about Revenant into value much more than the game could before. Everything was bloated back then and now I will be able to enjoy myself even more since evade spamming won't be the thing I see everywhere.

@"Yasai.3549" No, it's the beginning of the high skill ceiling era for Revenant. Gone are the days of the least Revenant way to play the profession with the "MuSt RuSh EvErYtHiNg" mentality which is Herald/Shiro, it's been 2 years I stopped using that build and I never looked back because of my greater success at the profession.

I told everyone CtA was fine at 35 which is comparable to Phase Traversal but no, people still had to whine about it so I'll take it lmao, here I am pulling people off their safe spot with ease while others believed that the old AoE that nobody stands in was better when now you're the AoE and can tank regardless.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

So now revs wont always have a stun break whenever they need it? Then they are just like other classes. Revs will have to pay more attention to energy and only use skills that are necessary for the moment. I only see this as a positive change. The energy cap is 100, maybe try staying in combat to get above 50, and stop assuming you should be able to instantly jump on an enemy and keep constant pressure on them while being able to instantly recover from any pressure yourself.

[Yasai.3549]

@Shao.7236 said:

@"Yasai.3549" No, it's the beginning of the high skill ceiling era for Revenant. Gone are the days of the least Revenant way to play the profession with the "MuSt RuSh EvErYtHiNg" mentality which is Herald/Shiro, it's been 2 years I stopped using that build and I never looked back because of my greater success at the profession.

Wrong.

It's gonna be Charged Mists era until that gets nerfed too.

As someone who plays only Core Rev, I can still deal with the Energy costs going up because Ancient Echo has got my back.

I just don't like it that Rev utilities are so overloaded to the point that it needs constant adjustment checks to make sure the Rev "Can't use it"

I much much rather have weakened utilities which cost less.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Shao.7236 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:You can use the stunbreak and still be able to cast the rest of your weapon skills with the 10 you have left + energy regen.

Yeah it's shocking how the majority miss the point with the new invocation rework. It's called /Riposting/ Shadow for a reason but never was used that way.

The moment legend swap occurs and people have to press the stunbreak, they will already be at 15%+ and choose to have stability if they want to.

I love this patch so much. It puts everything about Revenant into value much more than the game could before. Everything was bloated back then and now I will be able to enjoy myself even more since evade spamming won't be the thing I see everywhere.

@"Yasai.3549" No, it's the beginning of the high skill ceiling era for Revenant. Gone are the days of the least Revenant way to play the profession with the "MuSt RuSh EvErYtHiNg" mentality which is Herald/Shiro, it's been 2 years I stopped using that build and I never looked back because of my greater success at the profession.

I told everyone CtA was fine at 35 which is comparable to Phase Traversal but no, people still had to whine about it so I'll take it lmao, here I am pulling people off their safe spot with ease while others believed that the old AoE that nobody stands in was better when now you're the AoE and can tank regardless.

Revenant has always been a high ceiling spec, it turned into a rush down build after the sword rework that made it super bursty and after its sustain was nerfed. And if you really think CtA is comparable to PT, you're out of your mind. Condi rev is much more "MUST RUSH EVERYTHING" because it has to be built super tanky to counter its massive CC weakness, so you just spam skills mindlessly and face roll people until you run into a decent player who slaps that trash spec.

[Shao.7236]

@Yasai.3549And you think I don't? It's more than fine and I don't see why they should change it. Been playing Core Revenant way before Ancient Echo was a thing and that was when Charged Mists was necessary to have a chance.

High cost skills exist BECAUSE it helps having Charged Mists more easily. Not the latter.

[Shao.7236]

@"CutesySylveon.8290" said:Revenant has always been a high ceiling spec, it turned into a rush down build after the sword rework that made it super bursty and after its sustain was nerfed. And if you really think CtA is comparable to PT, you're out of your mind. Condi rev is much more "MUST RUSH EVERYTHING" because it has to be built super tanky to counter its massive CC weakness, so you just spam skills mindlessly and face roll people until you run into a decent player who slaps that trash spec.

How do you rush with damage overtime? You're funny. Tank? Even funnier. Ran Core Viper's for months, till Deadshot back to Wizards post patch. Built so TANKY when I pick the only option that prevents me from being controlled whether I'd be Power or Condi, absolutely no Shiro user who decide to play power themselves would go for Jalis. They would be Ventari! Or even better, Mallyx! Even though they are clearly just wanting to do Power and not Hybrid. Rofl. Nah they'd be Herald because of 1 skill that carries the whole build and proceed to evade spam around just like everything else that existed till the next balance drops, it will be glorious and I don't care if the player base drops because of it, at least I'll be playing with people who cares about this game.

FYI CtA doesn't care about invalid paths, hf blinking to someone who's doing his lil' edgy pvp jumping puzzles.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Shao.7236 said:

@"CutesySylveon.8290" said:Revenant has always been a high ceiling spec, it turned into a rush down build after the sword rework that made it super bursty and after its sustain was nerfed. And if you really think CtA is comparable to PT, you're out of your mind. Condi rev is much more "MUST RUSH EVERYTHING" because it has to be built super tanky to counter its massive CC weakness, so you just spam skills mindlessly and face roll people until you run into a decent player who slaps that trash spec.

How do you rush with damage overtime? You're funny. Tank? Even funnier. Ran Core Viper's for months, till Deadshot back to Wizards post patch. Built so TANKY when I pick the only option that prevents me from being controlled whether I'd be Power or Condi, absolutely no Shiro user who decide to play power themselves would go for Jalis. They would be Ventari! Or even better, Mallyx! Even though they are clearly just wanting to do Power and not Hybrid. Rofl. Nah they'd be Herald because of 1 skill that carries the whole build and proceed to evade spam around just like everything else that existed till the next balance drops, it will be glorious and I don't care if the player base drops because of it, at least I'll be playing with people who cares about this game.

FYI CtA doesn't care about invalid paths, hf blinking to someone who's doing his lil' edgy pvp jumping puzzles.

Last I checked, offhand sword is a power weapon so no DoT.Run Mallyx without Shiro and watch just how fast you will be CC locked, people running Shiro on condi builds do so because they know he's your best bet for not becoming a punching bag like Mallyx and a slightly more durable punching bag like Jalis.Herald is run for a number of reasons; boon and damage output, unblockable boon rip on Shiro, Glint's heal, stunbreak, elite, Elemental Blast. That's a lot more than 1 skill.

Condi rev was never even thought of until its torment output got buffed like crazy and it got traits to make it super tanky, otherwise it would still be left behind where it was because it was so easily countered. Seriously, have two people chain CC you as condi rev and watch how fast you drop without Shiro or Glint. Stun break in Mallyx? Here's another CC for you because you're going to eat it.

[Shao.7236]

@CutesySylveon.8290You don't know what you're talking about. Never say anything again.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Shao.7236 said:@CutesySylveon.8290You don't know what you're talking about. Never say anything again.

Coming from the person talking about DoT on a power weapon. Apply your own advice and keep quiet.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

No! Because in this teams eyes it's better to nerf the over all amount u can use any and all of your skills vs nerfing the amount that u can use each individual skill and or as u said by nerfing the individual skill in a manner not effecting others.Makes sense no?

[Za Shaloc.3908]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Yasai.3549 No, it's the beginning of the high skill ceiling era for Revenant. Gone are the days of the least Revenant way to play the profession with the "MuSt RuSh EvErYtHiNg" mentality which is Herald/Shiro, it's been 2 years I stopped using that build and I never looked back because of my greater success at the profession.

Wrong.

It's gonna be Charged Mists era until that gets nerfed too.

As someone who plays only Core Rev, I can still deal with the Energy costs going up because Ancient Echo has got my back.

I just don't like it that Rev utilities are so overloaded to the point that it needs constant adjustment checks to make sure the Rev "Can't use it"

I much much rather have weakened utilities which cost less.

I think you bring up a very good point. The further energy costs are increased, the more it pushes Charged Mists as a necessity. Increased energy costs is more tolerable for core Revenant players like you and me because we have a higher potential energy flow to be selecting from and therefore more adaptability, but these changes do undoubtedly change the meaning of energy costs and regen. Charged Mists is meant to be an option, but I do see it becoming the standard and slowly redefining the minimum baseline. If CM becomes a staple for all builds because of energy cost increases, then it will just be another one of those required traits in a traitline that has long been seen as essential, and will unnecessarily push certain builds out of viability. We don't really want another Empty Vessel situation. It is not to that point yet, but still important to consider.

[Yasai.3549]

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

I think you bring up a very good point. The further energy costs are increased, the more it pushes Charged Mists as a necessity. Increased energy costs is more tolerable for core Revenant players like you and me because we have a higher potential energy flow to be selecting from and therefore more adaptability, but these changes do undoubtedly change the meaning of energy costs and regen. Charged Mists is meant to be an option, but I do see it becoming the standard and slowly redefining the minimum baseline. If CM becomes a staple for all builds because of energy cost increases, then it will just be another one of those required traits in a traitline that has long been seen as essential, and will unnecessarily push certain builds out of viability. We don't really want another Empty Vessel situation. It is not to that point yet, but still important to consider.

Bruh I feel like it's gonna be Rev's Illusionary Persona 2 years down the road.

[Shao.7236]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Shao.7236 said:@CutesySylveon.8290You don't know what you're talking about. Never say anything again.

Coming from the person talking about DoT on a power weapon. Apply your own advice and keep quiet.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/96600/ready-for-some-core-revenant-gameplay-i-got-some-here#latest

Clueless, you are clueless.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Shao.7236 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Shao.7236 said:@CutesySylveon.8290You don't know what you're talking about. Never say anything again.

Coming from the person talking about DoT on a power weapon. Apply your own advice and keep quiet.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/96600/ready-for-some-core-revenant-gameplay-i-got-some-here#latest

Clueless, you are clueless.

Watching you roll over people who are as clueless as stone or on builds you counter isn't impressive in the slightest. Keep quiet.

[Shao.7236]

@"Pterikdactyl.7630"You damn well know I don't use Charged Mists to do anything and it still goes quite fine.. SotM is favoring something to be instant rather having to do anything, it doesn't have the benefit of being whatever you want to do, but it's still something to use in combination with everything without the requirement of CM.

Can say that Charged Mists is great for:

• Ventari because more healing, but then you have to remember that SotM is healing anyway.
• Jalis because IR with RotG but SotM applies Weakness and Barrier, Stability can be earned via Spirit Boon or the new incoming Stunbreak, we all know Weakness and RotG together is the main aspect of the legend.
• Mallyx for another BE? Stunbreak or just plain multiple leaps? SotM does have Slow that can be useful for cover conditions instead and combined for as much as 10 seconds of slow.
• Shiro for more energy to do.. What exactly? Phase Traversal for Quickness and unblockables to something like Jade Winds when you have F2 with SotM Quickness that increases per target, applies vulnerability and grants energy anyway that you're gonna have enough to do the same? Like the only issue I see here is not being able to use Riposting Shadows twice which is exactly what the balance team wants to take out.
• Herald.. Well actually not really since barely anyone ever upkeeps anything so, have fun trying to reach 10%. Doing the math is really fun though, Facet of Chaos has to be the best for it too since it puts it all to an halt.
• Renegade is absolutely recommended if you want the means to dominate an area.

It doesn't feel mandatory to me, but sometimes it can be better and I don't see that changing anytime soon. It's not a good point, this is what the devs want. This version of the game you play right now will be nothing like it is right now.

@Yasai.3549

This patch is not complicated, it tones down everything and energy is all the team can tamper with, the results you see is what is intended, not because it's the final view but because everything else in the game took the same hit regardless. You shouldn't be feeling vulnerable.

[Shao.7236]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Shao.7236 said:@CutesySylveon.8290You don't know what you're talking about. Never say anything again.

Coming from the person talking about DoT on a power weapon. Apply your own advice and keep quiet.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/96600/ready-for-some-core-revenant-gameplay-i-got-some-here#latest

Clueless, you are clueless.

Watching you roll over people who are as clueless as stone or on builds you counter isn't impressive in the slightest. Keep quiet.

Best of the best, God of PvP all be complaining at how easy and broken condition rev is. "Banish Enchantment spam rip my boons is broken af." Says a symbolbrand spam. "Transfers are OP. It's so easy too." Says a Fireweaver. "Play meta you trashcan, see how long you live." Says the Herald/Shiro unable to +1 cuz he /MuSt RuSh EvErYtHiNg/ but gets CC anytime he PT.

Means I counter everything I fight if I win 90% of my 1v1's.

Clueless as stone isn't my fault if the meta is braindead and so predictable when I have all the utility to do what I want but blink around. I'm in plat and gonna stay in plat, I don't manipulate the matchmaking.

And you were the one saying Jalis isn't tanky compared Mallyx, you have to be trolling. There's no way you're that ignorant although you did think Shiro would prevent a CC lock compared Jalis, that's quite something to claim when one is evade spam and the other is stability spam.

You can beat around the bush as much as you want with predictability, Riposting Shadows is nothing fancy to just re-CC anyone after, I do it all the time to anyone. Only have to hope you got stability from a random firebrand faceroll in the teamfight.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

PvP rank means about as much as a fart in a fan factory, no one has taken that seriously in ages.I never said Jalis wasn't tanky compared to Mallyx, of course he is when you have damage reduction on him. I flat out said he's a more durable punching bag than Mallyx but that he's still a punching bag because Avoiding Damage>Damage Reduction.

Neither can avoid damage and are easily CC spammed, yes even Jalis because it's not hard to bait you off the road or just kite. When that happens and you do get stunned, good luck breaking that stun with Jalis because that cast time is gonna just get you stunned again and waste 40 energy or just swap. This isn't even considering boon rips, especially a necro dropping Well of Corruption to chain corrupt that stab into fear.

Condi rev will likely be the meta following the big patch, and in some ways not just because everything else is getting nerfed. Stab on stun breaking is a godsend to condi rev and Mallyx/Jalis in particular. I already see nerfs coming, but the meta will likely go condi.