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  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Is it possible for the balance team to consider adding Spirited Arrival (Nature magic) to the list of traits triggered when merging/unmerging? Spirited Arrival is similarly tied to swaping pet while in combat. It's strange that it isn't listed.

    Edit: Death Carapace (instead of Armored Shroud) giving vitality or DR instead of toughness would be great for the flexibility of the traitline in PvE. I'd even root for Deadly Strength to replace the vitality from Death Carapace by power instead of adding power to the buff.

    I think it will. As they've stated in their other post, merging/unmerging will be counting as pet swap when the patch hits, so having one pet won't change anything in terms of running runes/traits that require a pet swap.

    Well I've linked what they say on the other post and they clearly specify 2 of the 3 traits which is either the simple truth or misleading. There is no reason to specify 2/3rd of the traits if they can just sum it up to: "merging/unmerging will be counting as a pet swap". Afterall, they have to link through coding the different F4 traits to F5 I doubt there is somewhere a line of code saying: "Any trait that would be triggered by F4 will now be triggered by F5".

    Or it's neither, and they may have forgotten to include that trait, or simply didn't think of that trait. But the fact they state "merging/unmerging will now count as a pet swap" should tell the whole tale in itself.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Mogwai.4015Mogwai.4015 Member ✭✭✭

    Admittedly as somebody who really likes to play support builds, the nerfs to the healing modifiers do seem a bit harsh, particularly on builds that offer little more than healing. I fear that it will generally making healing power investment feel much less "worth it" than it has been. Speaking from my own personal perspective, I think it would be nice to see another stat type introduced: benevolence. I am pretty sure that benevolence in its prior existence was simply a different name for healing power, but I think it would be cool for the stat to function specifically for outgoing healing effectiveness, just like the outgoing healing modifier traits. That way, it doesn't enable any bunker specs, particularly because it would also be taking away from taking another stat, like toughness or vitality. IMO, stat spreads like Minstrel's are very unhealthy for the game simply because they create supertank specs that still offer incredible support. With the nerfs to coefficients, introducing a new stat like benevolence could help create a further disparity in support effectiveness between tank-support and pure support specs. Adjustments could be made in PvE and sPvP to help accommodate this.

    Additionally, I would further suggest reducing Minstrel's stat spread to just 3 stats: healing power++, concentration+, vitality+. The tank-support set should be Nomad's; even with the nerfs, Minstrel's will still offer too much for its investment.

  • @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Well I've linked what they say on the other post and they clearly specify 2 of the 3 traits which is either the simple truth or misleading. There is no reason to specify 2/3rd of the traits if they can just sum it up to: "merging/unmerging will be counting as a pet swap". Afterall, they have to link through coding the different F4 traits to F5 I doubt there is somewhere a line of code saying: "Any trait that would be triggered by F4 will now be triggered by F5".

    Or it's neither, and they may have forgotten to include that trait, or simply didn't think of that trait. But the fact they state "merging/unmerging will now count as a pet swap" should tell the whole tale in itself.

    Spirited Arrival is included and will work with merge/unmerge, but it won't have text on the trait itself listing this until a bit later.

    Irenio 'Kui'
    GW2 Systems

  • @Dreggon.6598 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    • Weaver's Elemental Polyphany will grant vitality instead of toughness while attuned to earth.
    • Firebrand's Imbued Haste will grant vitality instead of toughness while you have quickness.

    Feedback on this bit: a good change that toughness is coming off, but vitality feels like a bit of a shaky choice here. Is it possible to change the toughness component to armor instead? That would make it functionally identical but solve the raid boss aggro problem.

    We can't roll it into armor directly, unfortunately.

    Irenio 'Kui'
    GW2 Systems

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Well I've linked what they say on the other post and they clearly specify 2 of the 3 traits which is either the simple truth or misleading. There is no reason to specify 2/3rd of the traits if they can just sum it up to: "merging/unmerging will be counting as a pet swap". Afterall, they have to link through coding the different F4 traits to F5 I doubt there is somewhere a line of code saying: "Any trait that would be triggered by F4 will now be triggered by F5".

    Or it's neither, and they may have forgotten to include that trait, or simply didn't think of that trait. But the fact they state "merging/unmerging will now count as a pet swap" should tell the whole tale in itself.

    Spirited Arrival is included and will work with merge/unmerge, but it won't have text on the trait itself listing this until a bit later.

    @Dadnir.5038 Here is your answer.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 Any chance Flamethrower skill 2 on Engineer is becoming an explosion?

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2020

    @Mogwai.4015 said:
    Admittedly as somebody who really likes to play support builds, the nerfs to the healing modifiers do seem a bit harsh, particularly on builds that offer little more than healing. I fear that it will generally making healing power investment feel much less "worth it" than it has been. Speaking from my own personal perspective, I think it would be nice to see another stat type introduced: benevolence. I am pretty sure that benevolence in its prior existence was simply a different name for healing power, but I think it would be cool for the stat to function specifically for outgoing healing effectiveness, just like the outgoing healing modifier traits. That way, it doesn't enable any bunker specs, particularly because it would also be taking away from taking another stat, like toughness or vitality. IMO, stat spreads like Minstrel's are very unhealthy for the game simply because they create supertank specs that still offer incredible support. With the nerfs to coefficients, introducing a new stat like benevolence could help create a further disparity in support effectiveness between tank-support and pure support specs. Adjustments could be made in PvE and sPvP to help accommodate this.

    Additionally, I would further suggest reducing Minstrel's stat spread to just 3 stats: healing power++, concentration+, vitality+. The tank-support set should be Nomad's; even with the nerfs, Minstrel's will still offer too much for its investment.

    Did you mean to post that in the WvW section ? There's no heal changes for PVE.


    @ Irenio thanks for clarifying the vitality on the firebrand trait even if health bars jumping around is still clunky and more load on the server infrastructure. I still think the minor trait is strong enough without it however.

  • @MoXAriApph.3650 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:
    Is there anyone on the balance team who can explain why Soulbeast can't swap pets mid-fight in this next update? We're this late into the game and this is an inane change. If you're looking to add drawbacks, there already is one by swapping pets, there's a LARGE cooldown upon unmerging/swapping/merging back, and it doesn't make sense in a PvE perspective. There's nothing innately broken about Soulbeast in general when it comes to swapping pets, it's a direct nerf to Condi Soulbeasts already VERY lacking CC, and a very annoying change to anyone who plays the Power Variant.
    This change seems like an absolute joke.

    Auto-ignoring anyone responding with the same gibberish "nerf meta' attitude, genuinely looking for an answer from the devs on this one.

    Kinda late response but the I believe the reasoning for this is because the devs are trying to align the elite specs back into the vision they originally had when HoT was released, but missed the mark. The devs originally wanted elite specs to simply be an “alternative play style” compared to what the base class offered, but ended up simply being a massive gain over anything the base class offered. Either you took your elite spec or you were fundamentally weaker without it.

    More recently as seen with the other elite spec changes, such as Daredevil swipe range being reduced, Druid pet damage nerf, Scrapper health reduction, berserker allowing standard burst abilities, etc, Anet is wanting to continue this trend into other elite specs.

    Soulbeast was notorious for being a 100% improvement over base ranger. If there is a base ranger build, there’s no reason not to through in the soulbeast line. While yes, there’s long cooldowns for swapping pets and re-merging, that’s not necessarily a trade off because it’s simply how the class works. The only really trade offs possible would have been to either be permanently merged with pets at all times but can still swap, or only have one pet at a time. With this changes you now need to make a choice of whether losing one of your pets is worth taking the soulbeast line. More than likely it will be, players will just need to find ways to compensate it such as using something like warthog for condi which has a headbutt ability when merged.

    While I do agree that it is unfortunate such substantial nerfs and changes are coming to elite specs, I can agree with the devs that reducing the power creep brought with elite specs is a good direction.

    So instead of buffing the core classes up, we're going to actually remove some classes identity in the name of equality? This is horrible design. At this point why even give the option for Soulbeasts to have two pets? It's backwards design and actually ends up being worse in the long run.
    Druid, sure, give it a lore reason so nobody can complain and slap a 10% nerf onto the pet damage, but seriously removing an entire pet from Soulbeast...?
    Literally just kitten nerf anything else we have, as this one makes next to 0 sense.

    I think one issue that can arise from buffing the core classes is that whenever a base class is buffed, so is the elite spec by extension. We can say “okay increase all Druid pet damage by 50%”, but then soulbeasts will also get this buff. I believe the devs are wanting to take a different approach where they bring down the ceiling by nerfing elite specs instead of raising the floor by buffing the base classes.

    This could be separated though by doing something like “if you have 3 base specs you equipped you get X bonus”, but that might go against the inference I listed above of not raising the floor where the devs want to reign in elite specs to be closer to the level that base classes play at opposed your the other way around.

    Removing a pet from soulbeast to focus more on the merging with a pet aspect is how they’re choosing to refocus that specs identity. While ranger itself may be focused on their pets, soulbeast will change that focus to instead be some “strong bond between the ranger and a single pet” kind of thing. The focus on ranger pets are still there, but now it’s a little different.

    While you did mention before that there is nothing innately broken about soulbeast compared to other classes, when comparing it to base ranger it is 100% better in any aspect.

  • Doutrinador.6285Doutrinador.6285 Member ✭✭
    edited February 13, 2020

    [...] we don't want to do so large a takedown that something becomes unused entirely.

    cries on turrets

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    From what I've seen so far grasping all of these changes its just going to be condi spam and heal bots all over again because they never took the time to ask themselves so whand how did damage get so high in the first place and just little things like that. Then also a lot of the feedback that is to troll people mostly are people i've seen in wvw and pve that do not even wear armor just a weapon to tag with and are saying things like deadeye and soulbeast are way too strong. If I wanted to condi spam or heal bot in this game I would be super exicted for the changes but sense I am not one of those kinds of players I pretty much will just write pve off too and just go find some other game and not bother ever coming back to this one.

  • Mogwai.4015Mogwai.4015 Member ✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:

    @Mogwai.4015 said:
    Admittedly as somebody who really likes to play support builds, the nerfs to the healing modifiers do seem a bit harsh, particularly on builds that offer little more than healing. I fear that it will generally making healing power investment feel much less "worth it" than it has been. Speaking from my own personal perspective, I think it would be nice to see another stat type introduced: benevolence. I am pretty sure that benevolence in its prior existence was simply a different name for healing power, but I think it would be cool for the stat to function specifically for outgoing healing effectiveness, just like the outgoing healing modifier traits. That way, it doesn't enable any bunker specs, particularly because it would also be taking away from taking another stat, like toughness or vitality. IMO, stat spreads like Minstrel's are very unhealthy for the game simply because they create supertank specs that still offer incredible support. With the nerfs to coefficients, introducing a new stat like benevolence could help create a further disparity in support effectiveness between tank-support and pure support specs. Adjustments could be made in PvE and sPvP to help accommodate this.

    Additionally, I would further suggest reducing Minstrel's stat spread to just 3 stats: healing power++, concentration+, vitality+. The tank-support set should be Nomad's; even with the nerfs, Minstrel's will still offer too much for its investment.

    Did you mean to post that in the WvW section ? There's no heal changes for PVE.


    @ Irenio thanks for clarifying the vitality on the firebrand trait even if health bars jumping around is still clunky and more load on the server infrastructure. I still think the minor trait is strong enough without it however.

    Oopsies, yes I did. At work on phone, thanks for letting me know.

  • MoXAriApph.3650MoXAriApph.3650 Member ✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:
    Is there anyone on the balance team who can explain why Soulbeast can't swap pets mid-fight in this next update? We're this late into the game and this is an inane change. If you're looking to add drawbacks, there already is one by swapping pets, there's a LARGE cooldown upon unmerging/swapping/merging back, and it doesn't make sense in a PvE perspective. There's nothing innately broken about Soulbeast in general when it comes to swapping pets, it's a direct nerf to Condi Soulbeasts already VERY lacking CC, and a very annoying change to anyone who plays the Power Variant.
    This change seems like an absolute joke.

    Auto-ignoring anyone responding with the same gibberish "nerf meta' attitude, genuinely looking for an answer from the devs on this one.

    Kinda late response but the I believe the reasoning for this is because the devs are trying to align the elite specs back into the vision they originally had when HoT was released, but missed the mark. The devs originally wanted elite specs to simply be an “alternative play style” compared to what the base class offered, but ended up simply being a massive gain over anything the base class offered. Either you took your elite spec or you were fundamentally weaker without it.

    More recently as seen with the other elite spec changes, such as Daredevil swipe range being reduced, Druid pet damage nerf, Scrapper health reduction, berserker allowing standard burst abilities, etc, Anet is wanting to continue this trend into other elite specs.

    Soulbeast was notorious for being a 100% improvement over base ranger. If there is a base ranger build, there’s no reason not to through in the soulbeast line. While yes, there’s long cooldowns for swapping pets and re-merging, that’s not necessarily a trade off because it’s simply how the class works. The only really trade offs possible would have been to either be permanently merged with pets at all times but can still swap, or only have one pet at a time. With this changes you now need to make a choice of whether losing one of your pets is worth taking the soulbeast line. More than likely it will be, players will just need to find ways to compensate it such as using something like warthog for condi which has a headbutt ability when merged.

    While I do agree that it is unfortunate such substantial nerfs and changes are coming to elite specs, I can agree with the devs that reducing the power creep brought with elite specs is a good direction.

    So instead of buffing the core classes up, we're going to actually remove some classes identity in the name of equality? This is horrible design. At this point why even give the option for Soulbeasts to have two pets? It's backwards design and actually ends up being worse in the long run.
    Druid, sure, give it a lore reason so nobody can complain and slap a 10% nerf onto the pet damage, but seriously removing an entire pet from Soulbeast...?
    Literally just kitten nerf anything else we have, as this one makes next to 0 sense.

    I think one issue that can arise from buffing the core classes is that whenever a base class is buffed, so is the elite spec by extension. We can say “okay increase all Druid pet damage by 50%”, but then soulbeasts will also get this buff. I believe the devs are wanting to take a different approach where they bring down the ceiling by nerfing elite specs instead of raising the floor by buffing the base classes.

    This could be separated though by doing something like “if you have 3 base specs you equipped you get X bonus”, but that might go against the inference I listed above of not raising the floor where the devs want to reign in elite specs to be closer to the level that base classes play at opposed your the other way around.

    Removing a pet from soulbeast to focus more on the merging with a pet aspect is how they’re choosing to refocus that specs identity. While ranger itself may be focused on their pets, soulbeast will change that focus to instead be some “strong bond between the ranger and a single pet” kind of thing. The focus on ranger pets are still there, but now it’s a little different.

    While you did mention before that there is nothing innately broken about soulbeast compared to other classes, when comparing it to base ranger it is 100% better in any aspect.

    By that exact same logic, lets get rid of Ascended cooking. It's better than base cooking and nobody uses regular cooking anymore, it offers nothing Unique.
    Lets get rid of Masteries, it's better than playing the base game and is by the same logic, supposed to have "drawbacks" no?

    Base classes in literally any game have never been designed to be top tier, that was the whole point to bringing out Elite Specs, to be a different take on the same class, to mix it up and create something Unique.
    Rather than make a Base class compete with it's own Elite Specs, we're adding half-thought "drawbacks".
    Every Elite Spec offers something Unique.

    Why not make Core Specs Unique?
    They had the right idea by adding to Core Revenant, but haven't buffed or changed that idea since, and it hasn't been a viable option in the majority of cases because it hasn't been pushed up, whether this is due to the Elite Specs being "better" or not doesn't matter, the attempt was never even fully finished.

    Changing Soulbeast + Druid to bring them down offers nothing on the scale of the entire class hierarchy, you're bringing down a class that's already low, you're kicking a dead horse.

    This change looks like it was made by somebody who has never played the class/Spec or even payed attention to how it works, the "drawback" is already there, you not only have to wait on swapping pets, you have to wait on your merge timer as well, it's been there from the start, you have the 100% free option instead to just punish constant swapping, do something fun, not boring, make it a longer and longer cooldown the more you swap in combat, do something that makes sense.
    Go and make something Unique for base Ranger, let it do something wild, give it access to more pets in combat, buff it when you have the 3 base traitlines, let it tame an elder dragon or something, idk, it shouldn't be my job, anything, it's fairly quick to design and would come out infinitely better.

    Let's say we add these "drawbacks" yeah? Guess what, Elite Specs will still entirely still be better than base, the "drawback"s fail and they become literally nothing more than annoyances to everyone.
    The only option from there is to start nerfing again, and then buffing, and it'll repeat until base classes take over for a while or the Elite Specs take over.
    Anyone who invested in their Elite Spec stops playing due to the constant changes and the class not being what they came for, then there's no point to Elite Specs.
    It's the beginning of a cycle that's so predictable it shouldn't happen.

    Otherwise this is all literally pointless and you'll keep having the same issues, it won't end.

  • Substance E.4852Substance E.4852 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:
    Soulbeast was notorious for being a 100% improvement over base ranger.

    Yes, because the Guild Wars 2 pets system is absolute garbage and it took them literally giving us a way to fuse with the pet to actually make the class good

    Reminder that pre-HoT, the only pets anyone used were spiders and canines because other types couldn't even hit a moving target with their attacks

    No one's going to play base ranger after this change because it still sucks and druid is still totally nerfed out of player vs player content and will only be worse after this update

    They will just play a handicapped soul beast like before and nothing will change. Pretty much everyone has already decided they'll just keep maining smokescale.

    Anet could have just removed Owl and Siamoth from the pvp pet selection menu and solved the "boonbeast problem" without doing some silly double edged sword nonsense

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:
    Is there anyone on the balance team who can explain why Soulbeast can't swap pets mid-fight in this next update? We're this late into the game and this is an inane change. If you're looking to add drawbacks, there already is one by swapping pets, there's a LARGE cooldown upon unmerging/swapping/merging back, and it doesn't make sense in a PvE perspective. There's nothing innately broken about Soulbeast in general when it comes to swapping pets, it's a direct nerf to Condi Soulbeasts already VERY lacking CC, and a very annoying change to anyone who plays the Power Variant.
    This change seems like an absolute joke.

    Auto-ignoring anyone responding with the same gibberish "nerf meta' attitude, genuinely looking for an answer from the devs on this one.

    Kinda late response but the I believe the reasoning for this is because the devs are trying to align the elite specs back into the vision they originally had when HoT was released, but missed the mark. The devs originally wanted elite specs to simply be an “alternative play style” compared to what the base class offered, but ended up simply being a massive gain over anything the base class offered. Either you took your elite spec or you were fundamentally weaker without it.

    More recently as seen with the other elite spec changes, such as Daredevil swipe range being reduced, Druid pet damage nerf, Scrapper health reduction, berserker allowing standard burst abilities, etc, Anet is wanting to continue this trend into other elite specs.

    Soulbeast was notorious for being a 100% improvement over base ranger. If there is a base ranger build, there’s no reason not to through in the soulbeast line. While yes, there’s long cooldowns for swapping pets and re-merging, that’s not necessarily a trade off because it’s simply how the class works. The only really trade offs possible would have been to either be permanently merged with pets at all times but can still swap, or only have one pet at a time. With this changes you now need to make a choice of whether losing one of your pets is worth taking the soulbeast line. More than likely it will be, players will just need to find ways to compensate it such as using something like warthog for condi which has a headbutt ability when merged.

    While I do agree that it is unfortunate such substantial nerfs and changes are coming to elite specs, I can agree with the devs that reducing the power creep brought with elite specs is a good direction.

    So instead of buffing the core classes up, we're going to actually remove some classes identity in the name of equality? This is horrible design. At this point why even give the option for Soulbeasts to have two pets? It's backwards design and actually ends up being worse in the long run.
    Druid, sure, give it a lore reason so nobody can complain and slap a 10% nerf onto the pet damage, but seriously removing an entire pet from Soulbeast...?
    Literally just kitten nerf anything else we have, as this one makes next to 0 sense.

    I think one issue that can arise from buffing the core classes is that whenever a base class is buffed, so is the elite spec by extension. We can say “okay increase all Druid pet damage by 50%”, but then soulbeasts will also get this buff. I believe the devs are wanting to take a different approach where they bring down the ceiling by nerfing elite specs instead of raising the floor by buffing the base classes.

    This could be separated though by doing something like “if you have 3 base specs you equipped you get X bonus”, but that might go against the inference I listed above of not raising the floor where the devs want to reign in elite specs to be closer to the level that base classes play at opposed your the other way around.

    Removing a pet from soulbeast to focus more on the merging with a pet aspect is how they’re choosing to refocus that specs identity. While ranger itself may be focused on their pets, soulbeast will change that focus to instead be some “strong bond between the ranger and a single pet” kind of thing. The focus on ranger pets are still there, but now it’s a little different.

    While you did mention before that there is nothing innately broken about soulbeast compared to other classes, when comparing it to base ranger it is 100% better in any aspect.

    By that exact same logic, lets get rid of Ascended cooking. It's better than base cooking and nobody uses regular cooking anymore, it offers nothing Unique.
    Lets get rid of Masteries, it's better than playing the base game and is by the same logic, supposed to have "drawbacks" no?

    Base classes in literally any game have never been designed to be top tier, that was the whole point to bringing out Elite Specs, to be a different take on the same class, to mix it up and create something Unique.
    Rather than make a Base class compete with it's own Elite Specs, we're adding half-thought "drawbacks".
    Every Elite Spec offers something Unique.

    Why not make Core Specs Unique?
    They had the right idea by adding to Core Revenant, but haven't buffed or changed that idea since, and it hasn't been a viable option in the majority of cases because it hasn't been pushed up, whether this is due to the Elite Specs being "better" or not doesn't matter, the attempt was never even fully finished.

    Changing Soulbeast + Druid to bring them down offers nothing on the scale of the entire class hierarchy, you're bringing down a class that's already low, you're kicking a dead horse.

    This change looks like it was made by somebody who has never played the class/Spec or even payed attention to how it works, the "drawback" is already there, you not only have to wait on swapping pets, you have to wait on your merge timer as well, it's been there from the start, you have the 100% free option instead to just punish constant swapping, do something fun, not boring, make it a longer and longer cooldown the more you swap in combat, do something that makes sense.
    Go and make something Unique for base Ranger, let it do something wild, give it access to more pets in combat, buff it when you have the 3 base traitlines, let it tame an elder dragon or something, idk, it shouldn't be my job, anything, it's fairly quick to design and would come out infinitely better.

    Let's say we add these "drawbacks" yeah? Guess what, Elite Specs will still entirely still be better than base, the "drawback"s fail and they become literally nothing more than annoyances to everyone.
    The only option from there is to start nerfing again, and then buffing, and it'll repeat until base classes take over for a while or the Elite Specs take over.
    Anyone who invested in their Elite Spec stops playing due to the constant changes and the class not being what they came for, then there's no point to Elite Specs.
    It's the beginning of a cycle that's so predictable it shouldn't happen.

    Otherwise this is all literally pointless and you'll keep having the same issues, it won't end.

    Elite specs were never meant to be better than the core classes, they were, and are, meant to be specialized in one area(for example, spellbreaker ripping alot of boons and denying them).
    This was made very clear by anet several times.

    Just because core classes are not top tier in other games, does NOT mean gw2 has to be the same, why should it?

    They do indeed mix up how you play your class and give it something unique, that doesnt change with that soulbeast nerf.

    And having 2 pets to quickly choose from when out of combat does make sense, makes for more decision making. In pvp for example, you have to choose which pet suits you better to fight the warrior (or whoever sits there) on your close point, while in a team skirmish on mid you might take something different before you engage.

    Your "buff everything else" mentality is what brought us this insane level of powercreep.
    Have you played dungeons pre hot and post pof? Its ridiculous, you can ignore whole boss mechanics because you can burst/heal right through them.

    And your cooking and mastery analogy are not working here, because their purpose was indeed to be better than previous things, unlike especs.

  • MoXAriApph.3650MoXAriApph.3650 Member ✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:
    Is there anyone on the balance team who can explain why Soulbeast can't swap pets mid-fight in this next update? We're this late into the game and this is an inane change. If you're looking to add drawbacks, there already is one by swapping pets, there's a LARGE cooldown upon unmerging/swapping/merging back, and it doesn't make sense in a PvE perspective. There's nothing innately broken about Soulbeast in general when it comes to swapping pets, it's a direct nerf to Condi Soulbeasts already VERY lacking CC, and a very annoying change to anyone who plays the Power Variant.
    This change seems like an absolute joke.

    Auto-ignoring anyone responding with the same gibberish "nerf meta' attitude, genuinely looking for an answer from the devs on this one.

    Kinda late response but the I believe the reasoning for this is because the devs are trying to align the elite specs back into the vision they originally had when HoT was released, but missed the mark. The devs originally wanted elite specs to simply be an “alternative play style” compared to what the base class offered, but ended up simply being a massive gain over anything the base class offered. Either you took your elite spec or you were fundamentally weaker without it.

    More recently as seen with the other elite spec changes, such as Daredevil swipe range being reduced, Druid pet damage nerf, Scrapper health reduction, berserker allowing standard burst abilities, etc, Anet is wanting to continue this trend into other elite specs.

    Soulbeast was notorious for being a 100% improvement over base ranger. If there is a base ranger build, there’s no reason not to through in the soulbeast line. While yes, there’s long cooldowns for swapping pets and re-merging, that’s not necessarily a trade off because it’s simply how the class works. The only really trade offs possible would have been to either be permanently merged with pets at all times but can still swap, or only have one pet at a time. With this changes you now need to make a choice of whether losing one of your pets is worth taking the soulbeast line. More than likely it will be, players will just need to find ways to compensate it such as using something like warthog for condi which has a headbutt ability when merged.

    While I do agree that it is unfortunate such substantial nerfs and changes are coming to elite specs, I can agree with the devs that reducing the power creep brought with elite specs is a good direction.

    So instead of buffing the core classes up, we're going to actually remove some classes identity in the name of equality? This is horrible design. At this point why even give the option for Soulbeasts to have two pets? It's backwards design and actually ends up being worse in the long run.
    Druid, sure, give it a lore reason so nobody can complain and slap a 10% nerf onto the pet damage, but seriously removing an entire pet from Soulbeast...?
    Literally just kitten nerf anything else we have, as this one makes next to 0 sense.

    I think one issue that can arise from buffing the core classes is that whenever a base class is buffed, so is the elite spec by extension. We can say “okay increase all Druid pet damage by 50%”, but then soulbeasts will also get this buff. I believe the devs are wanting to take a different approach where they bring down the ceiling by nerfing elite specs instead of raising the floor by buffing the base classes.

    This could be separated though by doing something like “if you have 3 base specs you equipped you get X bonus”, but that might go against the inference I listed above of not raising the floor where the devs want to reign in elite specs to be closer to the level that base classes play at opposed your the other way around.

    Removing a pet from soulbeast to focus more on the merging with a pet aspect is how they’re choosing to refocus that specs identity. While ranger itself may be focused on their pets, soulbeast will change that focus to instead be some “strong bond between the ranger and a single pet” kind of thing. The focus on ranger pets are still there, but now it’s a little different.

    While you did mention before that there is nothing innately broken about soulbeast compared to other classes, when comparing it to base ranger it is 100% better in any aspect.

    By that exact same logic, lets get rid of Ascended cooking. It's better than base cooking and nobody uses regular cooking anymore, it offers nothing Unique.
    Lets get rid of Masteries, it's better than playing the base game and is by the same logic, supposed to have "drawbacks" no?

    Base classes in literally any game have never been designed to be top tier, that was the whole point to bringing out Elite Specs, to be a different take on the same class, to mix it up and create something Unique.
    Rather than make a Base class compete with it's own Elite Specs, we're adding half-thought "drawbacks".
    Every Elite Spec offers something Unique.

    Why not make Core Specs Unique?
    They had the right idea by adding to Core Revenant, but haven't buffed or changed that idea since, and it hasn't been a viable option in the majority of cases because it hasn't been pushed up, whether this is due to the Elite Specs being "better" or not doesn't matter, the attempt was never even fully finished.

    Changing Soulbeast + Druid to bring them down offers nothing on the scale of the entire class hierarchy, you're bringing down a class that's already low, you're kicking a dead horse.

    This change looks like it was made by somebody who has never played the class/Spec or even payed attention to how it works, the "drawback" is already there, you not only have to wait on swapping pets, you have to wait on your merge timer as well, it's been there from the start, you have the 100% free option instead to just punish constant swapping, do something fun, not boring, make it a longer and longer cooldown the more you swap in combat, do something that makes sense.
    Go and make something Unique for base Ranger, let it do something wild, give it access to more pets in combat, buff it when you have the 3 base traitlines, let it tame an elder dragon or something, idk, it shouldn't be my job, anything, it's fairly quick to design and would come out infinitely better.

    Let's say we add these "drawbacks" yeah? Guess what, Elite Specs will still entirely still be better than base, the "drawback"s fail and they become literally nothing more than annoyances to everyone.
    The only option from there is to start nerfing again, and then buffing, and it'll repeat until base classes take over for a while or the Elite Specs take over.
    Anyone who invested in their Elite Spec stops playing due to the constant changes and the class not being what they came for, then there's no point to Elite Specs.
    It's the beginning of a cycle that's so predictable it shouldn't happen.

    Otherwise this is all literally pointless and you'll keep having the same issues, it won't end.

    Elite specs were never meant to be better than the core classes, they were, and are, meant to be specialized in one area(for example, spellbreaker ripping alot of boons and denying them).
    This was made very clear by anet several times.

    Just because core classes are not top tier in other games, does NOT mean gw2 has to be the same, why should it?

    They do indeed mix up how you play your class and give it something unique, that doesnt change with that soulbeast nerf.

    And having 2 pets to quickly choose from when out of combat does make sense, makes for more decision making. In pvp for example, you have to choose which pet suits you better to fight the warrior (or whoever sits there) on your close point, while in a team skirmish on mid you might take something different before you engage.

    Your "buff everything else" mentality is what brought us this insane level of powercreep.
    Have you played dungeons pre hot and post pof? Its ridiculous, you can ignore whole boss mechanics because you can burst/heal right through them.

    And your cooking and mastery analogy are not working here, because their purpose was indeed to be better than previous things, unlike especs.

    Are you still living in the Dungeon meta? We've progressed, time is fowards.
    The rewards for dungeons and the scaling are a joke, they made content like Raids and Fractals (however much you like it or not) to counteract the "power creep".
    Not to mention the "power creep" is the first argument players go to when they themselves do not know what they're talking about.
    The 10x damage difference (this number can be higher or lower, it'll never matter) between Veterans and New players is very established and will always be because Veterans have played long enough to make better decisions (not to say new players make bad decisions but wisdom and progression), in this case, Elite specs, whether you nerf them or not your imaginary "power creep" will always be there.
    Keeping the scale where it is and scaling content up is a massively more logical solution, people need to eventually learn the game, we've done everything except get people to learn how to play in the name of casual gameplay, it's why the veterans are leaving and content isn't challenging.
    Strikes are going to full on be hit or miss and time will tell but Raiders have to either see it as a replacement to Raids or a replacement to Raid training, neither of which *************currently************* are being achieved. This very much contributes to the issues with elite specs and balance.

    The thing you probably didn't notice is back when dungeons were meta, is everyone was on equal footing because the skill cap was fairly low, this isn't the case anymore.
    I'm not saying Core classes can't be top tier, I'm saying they shouldn't be bringing everything down to the core class power.
    Don't bring people down, teach the game and make it fair across the board by catching everyone up to where the veterans are at, because once we went up amazing things happened, PoF specs while hated by many for "power creep" redefined the meta and allowed them to bring down the "chrono druid meta garbage" (other peoples words not mine here) and introduced a vast amount of variety in gameplay.
    You're seeing specs and classes outside of a select few and it's largely due to how special the elite specs were designed, all beyond unique and so far comparable to HoT Elite Specs.

    The game is absolutely fantastic and the majority of people don't even realize how far it goes, it's a fantastic combat system plagued by the blissfully ignorant.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    if you're going to make obsidian flesh a time waster then pls decrease cd or make it a group buff

    Te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Where's the trade off for elementalist?

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    we don't like that a minor trait gives you toughness and can make you a target in some of our content when that's not the goal of your build.

    Other traits with this behavior that we'll be looking at along these lines are:

    • Armored Shroud

    Its going to be very interesting to see how you solve this one considering the fact that changing that trait changes how the entire line works now that carapace was forced into it rather than just making something flat that works all the time like the other lines on other professions have.

    I doubt it will be as easy as just swapping it to vitality allowing scaling vitality in combat which seems like a massive balance issue considering how many traits and things vitality is tied to with the necromancer not to mention it already has a vitality trait in another line. I mean the idea of slapping some one with a curse and in theory leeching some vitality off them (without reducing theirs) is pretty cool and all but boy does that seem like balance nightmare.

    It's much less of an issue because death magic generally isn't run unless it's openworld.

    Reapers usually run soul reaping + spite ; scourges usually do curses+soul reaping or blood magic+soul reaping.

  • This is a suggestion, but wouldn't it work great is we swapped the shout "feel my wrath" and "stand your ground" in places so syg now is an elite spell, it wouldn't change anything in open world for solo playing, but in instanced areas(raids) this would mean that if you don't take any quickness support you will get less dps individually , but still it would be an increase in teams dps. and if you would go with a quickbrand it would lower his dps so no more silly 26k dps support, and also it would justify the strength of stand your ground

  • Skill.6741Skill.6741 Member
    edited February 14, 2020

    Spiked Armor : Remove Retaliation, add Reflect missile
    Thick Skin : Remove Health Threshold and 180 toughness, add Increase 45 vitality and 45 toughness

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    It's much less of an issue because death magic generally isn't run unless it's openworld.

    Well it's used a bit more in sPvP/WvW nowadays. I do hope thought that they will do "more" to DM's issue than just modifying the Death Carapace's toughness by vitality. Personally, I'd be glad if they kept the toughness on death carapace but made use of the major at the master level to modify (or not) the stat bonus from death carapace. (For example: Deadly strength could be a trait that replace toughness by power instead of slapping power on top of the toughness.)

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:
    Is there anyone on the balance team who can explain why Soulbeast can't swap pets mid-fight in this next update? We're this late into the game and this is an inane change. If you're looking to add drawbacks, there already is one by swapping pets, there's a LARGE cooldown upon unmerging/swapping/merging back, and it doesn't make sense in a PvE perspective. There's nothing innately broken about Soulbeast in general when it comes to swapping pets, it's a direct nerf to Condi Soulbeasts already VERY lacking CC, and a very annoying change to anyone who plays the Power Variant.
    This change seems like an absolute joke.

    Auto-ignoring anyone responding with the same gibberish "nerf meta' attitude, genuinely looking for an answer from the devs on this one.

    Kinda late response but the I believe the reasoning for this is because the devs are trying to align the elite specs back into the vision they originally had when HoT was released, but missed the mark. The devs originally wanted elite specs to simply be an “alternative play style” compared to what the base class offered, but ended up simply being a massive gain over anything the base class offered. Either you took your elite spec or you were fundamentally weaker without it.

    More recently as seen with the other elite spec changes, such as Daredevil swipe range being reduced, Druid pet damage nerf, Scrapper health reduction, berserker allowing standard burst abilities, etc, Anet is wanting to continue this trend into other elite specs.

    Soulbeast was notorious for being a 100% improvement over base ranger. If there is a base ranger build, there’s no reason not to through in the soulbeast line. While yes, there’s long cooldowns for swapping pets and re-merging, that’s not necessarily a trade off because it’s simply how the class works. The only really trade offs possible would have been to either be permanently merged with pets at all times but can still swap, or only have one pet at a time. With this changes you now need to make a choice of whether losing one of your pets is worth taking the soulbeast line. More than likely it will be, players will just need to find ways to compensate it such as using something like warthog for condi which has a headbutt ability when merged.

    While I do agree that it is unfortunate such substantial nerfs and changes are coming to elite specs, I can agree with the devs that reducing the power creep brought with elite specs is a good direction.

    So instead of buffing the core classes up, we're going to actually remove some classes identity in the name of equality? This is horrible design. At this point why even give the option for Soulbeasts to have two pets? It's backwards design and actually ends up being worse in the long run.
    Druid, sure, give it a lore reason so nobody can complain and slap a 10% nerf onto the pet damage, but seriously removing an entire pet from Soulbeast...?
    Literally just kitten nerf anything else we have, as this one makes next to 0 sense.

    I think one issue that can arise from buffing the core classes is that whenever a base class is buffed, so is the elite spec by extension. We can say “okay increase all Druid pet damage by 50%”, but then soulbeasts will also get this buff. I believe the devs are wanting to take a different approach where they bring down the ceiling by nerfing elite specs instead of raising the floor by buffing the base classes.

    This could be separated though by doing something like “if you have 3 base specs you equipped you get X bonus”, but that might go against the inference I listed above of not raising the floor where the devs want to reign in elite specs to be closer to the level that base classes play at opposed your the other way around.

    Removing a pet from soulbeast to focus more on the merging with a pet aspect is how they’re choosing to refocus that specs identity. While ranger itself may be focused on their pets, soulbeast will change that focus to instead be some “strong bond between the ranger and a single pet” kind of thing. The focus on ranger pets are still there, but now it’s a little different.

    While you did mention before that there is nothing innately broken about soulbeast compared to other classes, when comparing it to base ranger it is 100% better in any aspect.

    By that exact same logic, lets get rid of Ascended cooking. It's better than base cooking and nobody uses regular cooking anymore, it offers nothing Unique.
    Lets get rid of Masteries, it's better than playing the base game and is by the same logic, supposed to have "drawbacks" no?

    Base classes in literally any game have never been designed to be top tier, that was the whole point to bringing out Elite Specs, to be a different take on the same class, to mix it up and create something Unique.
    Rather than make a Base class compete with it's own Elite Specs, we're adding half-thought "drawbacks".
    Every Elite Spec offers something Unique.

    Why not make Core Specs Unique?
    They had the right idea by adding to Core Revenant, but haven't buffed or changed that idea since, and it hasn't been a viable option in the majority of cases because it hasn't been pushed up, whether this is due to the Elite Specs being "better" or not doesn't matter, the attempt was never even fully finished.

    Changing Soulbeast + Druid to bring them down offers nothing on the scale of the entire class hierarchy, you're bringing down a class that's already low, you're kicking a dead horse.

    This change looks like it was made by somebody who has never played the class/Spec or even payed attention to how it works, the "drawback" is already there, you not only have to wait on swapping pets, you have to wait on your merge timer as well, it's been there from the start, you have the 100% free option instead to just punish constant swapping, do something fun, not boring, make it a longer and longer cooldown the more you swap in combat, do something that makes sense.
    Go and make something Unique for base Ranger, let it do something wild, give it access to more pets in combat, buff it when you have the 3 base traitlines, let it tame an elder dragon or something, idk, it shouldn't be my job, anything, it's fairly quick to design and would come out infinitely better.

    Let's say we add these "drawbacks" yeah? Guess what, Elite Specs will still entirely still be better than base, the "drawback"s fail and they become literally nothing more than annoyances to everyone.
    The only option from there is to start nerfing again, and then buffing, and it'll repeat until base classes take over for a while or the Elite Specs take over.
    Anyone who invested in their Elite Spec stops playing due to the constant changes and the class not being what they came for, then there's no point to Elite Specs.
    It's the beginning of a cycle that's so predictable it shouldn't happen.

    Otherwise this is all literally pointless and you'll keep having the same issues, it won't end.

    Frankly what they need to do is lock the core profession mechanic traitline behind core. So no Berserkers or Spellbreakers with Discipline. No Soulbeasts or Druids with Beastmastery (that instantly removes half the cheese of Soulbeast btw). No Scourges or Reapers with Soul Reaping Etc.

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048
    So much of the current cheese can be boiled down to the E-Specs changing the class mechanics, yet still taking the trailine that enhances the mechanic anyway.
    I suggest locking these behind the Core specs, and then undoing some of the 'drawbacks' you all have been rolling out. Give Scrappers back their vitality, give stats back to the Druid pet, give Berserker's their toughness back (I'm okay with losing the F1 entirely at this point as that is the alteration of the core mechanic). I think you'll find that balance will be a lot better with those changes, and if that had been done, then this massive patch probably would not have had to happen in the first place.

    Edit to clarify: I don't think Core specs should be forced to take their mechanic traitline, but only Core can access them. So a Necro could do Death Magic, Blood Magic, and Spite for example.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:
    Is there anyone on the balance team who can explain why Soulbeast can't swap pets mid-fight in this next update? We're this late into the game and this is an inane change. If you're looking to add drawbacks, there already is one by swapping pets, there's a LARGE cooldown upon unmerging/swapping/merging back, and it doesn't make sense in a PvE perspective. There's nothing innately broken about Soulbeast in general when it comes to swapping pets, it's a direct nerf to Condi Soulbeasts already VERY lacking CC, and a very annoying change to anyone who plays the Power Variant.
    This change seems like an absolute joke.

    Auto-ignoring anyone responding with the same gibberish "nerf meta' attitude, genuinely looking for an answer from the devs on this one.

    Kinda late response but the I believe the reasoning for this is because the devs are trying to align the elite specs back into the vision they originally had when HoT was released, but missed the mark. The devs originally wanted elite specs to simply be an “alternative play style” compared to what the base class offered, but ended up simply being a massive gain over anything the base class offered. Either you took your elite spec or you were fundamentally weaker without it.

    More recently as seen with the other elite spec changes, such as Daredevil swipe range being reduced, Druid pet damage nerf, Scrapper health reduction, berserker allowing standard burst abilities, etc, Anet is wanting to continue this trend into other elite specs.

    Soulbeast was notorious for being a 100% improvement over base ranger. If there is a base ranger build, there’s no reason not to through in the soulbeast line. While yes, there’s long cooldowns for swapping pets and re-merging, that’s not necessarily a trade off because it’s simply how the class works. The only really trade offs possible would have been to either be permanently merged with pets at all times but can still swap, or only have one pet at a time. With this changes you now need to make a choice of whether losing one of your pets is worth taking the soulbeast line. More than likely it will be, players will just need to find ways to compensate it such as using something like warthog for condi which has a headbutt ability when merged.

    While I do agree that it is unfortunate such substantial nerfs and changes are coming to elite specs, I can agree with the devs that reducing the power creep brought with elite specs is a good direction.

    So instead of buffing the core classes up, we're going to actually remove some classes identity in the name of equality? This is horrible design. At this point why even give the option for Soulbeasts to have two pets? It's backwards design and actually ends up being worse in the long run.
    Druid, sure, give it a lore reason so nobody can complain and slap a 10% nerf onto the pet damage, but seriously removing an entire pet from Soulbeast...?
    Literally just kitten nerf anything else we have, as this one makes next to 0 sense.

    I think one issue that can arise from buffing the core classes is that whenever a base class is buffed, so is the elite spec by extension. We can say “okay increase all Druid pet damage by 50%”, but then soulbeasts will also get this buff. I believe the devs are wanting to take a different approach where they bring down the ceiling by nerfing elite specs instead of raising the floor by buffing the base classes.

    This could be separated though by doing something like “if you have 3 base specs you equipped you get X bonus”, but that might go against the inference I listed above of not raising the floor where the devs want to reign in elite specs to be closer to the level that base classes play at opposed your the other way around.

    Removing a pet from soulbeast to focus more on the merging with a pet aspect is how they’re choosing to refocus that specs identity. While ranger itself may be focused on their pets, soulbeast will change that focus to instead be some “strong bond between the ranger and a single pet” kind of thing. The focus on ranger pets are still there, but now it’s a little different.

    While you did mention before that there is nothing innately broken about soulbeast compared to other classes, when comparing it to base ranger it is 100% better in any aspect.

    By that exact same logic, lets get rid of Ascended cooking. It's better than base cooking and nobody uses regular cooking anymore, it offers nothing Unique.
    Lets get rid of Masteries, it's better than playing the base game and is by the same logic, supposed to have "drawbacks" no?

    Base classes in literally any game have never been designed to be top tier, that was the whole point to bringing out Elite Specs, to be a different take on the same class, to mix it up and create something Unique.
    Rather than make a Base class compete with it's own Elite Specs, we're adding half-thought "drawbacks".
    Every Elite Spec offers something Unique.

    Why not make Core Specs Unique?
    They had the right idea by adding to Core Revenant, but haven't buffed or changed that idea since, and it hasn't been a viable option in the majority of cases because it hasn't been pushed up, whether this is due to the Elite Specs being "better" or not doesn't matter, the attempt was never even fully finished.

    Changing Soulbeast + Druid to bring them down offers nothing on the scale of the entire class hierarchy, you're bringing down a class that's already low, you're kicking a dead horse.

    This change looks like it was made by somebody who has never played the class/Spec or even payed attention to how it works, the "drawback" is already there, you not only have to wait on swapping pets, you have to wait on your merge timer as well, it's been there from the start, you have the 100% free option instead to just punish constant swapping, do something fun, not boring, make it a longer and longer cooldown the more you swap in combat, do something that makes sense.
    Go and make something Unique for base Ranger, let it do something wild, give it access to more pets in combat, buff it when you have the 3 base traitlines, let it tame an elder dragon or something, idk, it shouldn't be my job, anything, it's fairly quick to design and would come out infinitely better.

    Let's say we add these "drawbacks" yeah? Guess what, Elite Specs will still entirely still be better than base, the "drawback"s fail and they become literally nothing more than annoyances to everyone.
    The only option from there is to start nerfing again, and then buffing, and it'll repeat until base classes take over for a while or the Elite Specs take over.
    Anyone who invested in their Elite Spec stops playing due to the constant changes and the class not being what they came for, then there's no point to Elite Specs.
    It's the beginning of a cycle that's so predictable it shouldn't happen.

    Otherwise this is all literally pointless and you'll keep having the same issues, it won't end.

    Elite specs were never meant to be better than the core classes, they were, and are, meant to be specialized in one area(for example, spellbreaker ripping alot of boons and denying them).
    This was made very clear by anet several times.

    Just because core classes are not top tier in other games, does NOT mean gw2 has to be the same, why should it?

    They do indeed mix up how you play your class and give it something unique, that doesnt change with that soulbeast nerf.

    And having 2 pets to quickly choose from when out of combat does make sense, makes for more decision making. In pvp for example, you have to choose which pet suits you better to fight the warrior (or whoever sits there) on your close point, while in a team skirmish on mid you might take something different before you engage.

    Your "buff everything else" mentality is what brought us this insane level of powercreep.
    Have you played dungeons pre hot and post pof? Its ridiculous, you can ignore whole boss mechanics because you can burst/heal right through them.

    And your cooking and mastery analogy are not working here, because their purpose was indeed to be better than previous things, unlike especs.

    Are you still living in the Dungeon meta? We've progressed, time is fowards.
    The rewards for dungeons and the scaling are a joke, they made content like Raids and Fractals (however much you like it or not) to counteract the "power creep".
    Not to mention the "power creep" is the first argument players go to when they themselves do not know what they're talking about.
    The 10x damage difference (this number can be higher or lower, it'll never matter) between Veterans and New players is very established and will always be because Veterans have played long enough to make better decisions (not to say new players make bad decisions but wisdom and progression), in this case, Elite specs, whether you nerf them or not your imaginary "power creep" will always be there.
    Keeping the scale where it is and scaling content up is a massively more logical solution, people need to eventually learn the game, we've done everything except get people to learn how to play in the name of casual gameplay, it's why the veterans are leaving and content isn't challenging.
    Strikes are going to full on be hit or miss and time will tell but Raiders have to either see it as a replacement to Raids or a replacement to Raid training, neither of which *************currently************* are being achieved. This very much contributes to the issues with elite specs and balance.

    The thing you probably didn't notice is back when dungeons were meta, is everyone was on equal footing because the skill cap was fairly low, this isn't the case anymore.
    I'm not saying Core classes can't be top tier, I'm saying they shouldn't be bringing everything down to the core class power.
    Don't bring people down, teach the game and make it fair across the board by catching everyone up to where the veterans are at, because once we went up amazing things happened, PoF specs while hated by many for "power creep" redefined the meta and allowed them to bring down the "chrono druid meta garbage" (other peoples words not mine here) and introduced a vast amount of variety in gameplay.
    You're seeing specs and classes outside of a select few and it's largely due to how special the elite specs were designed, all beyond unique and so far comparable to HoT Elite Specs.

    The game is absolutely fantastic and the majority of people don't even realize how far it goes, it's a fantastic combat system plagued by the blissfully ignorant.

    Lol, are you actually denying that powercreep exists in the game? If you think dungeons just got easier because ppl learned the game then you are plain wrong.

    Its a FACT that dps increased over various patches. I, as a pve noob, have done many dungeons with 3 ppl instead of 5 since pof release (because often we couldnt find ppl to do them, and we only did them to get dungeon runes/sigils for wvw).
    And we are not using special tactics, we just run the dungeon casually, often just killing all the mobs on the way, because we have the dmg and are too kitten to know were we can skip enemies, or fail to skip them.

    Why do you think that build variety will be reduced with less dmg in the game? Heal and boons were reduced aswell, to counteract a tank meta.
    The especs still have their different playstyle, this patch doesnt change that at all, no idea were you get that from.
    If anything, if they keep balancing after the big patch hits (it obviously wont be perfect straight up after patch hits) build variety could greatly increase.

    Right now we basically have a full dmg meta, were everybody just tries to oneshot the enemies as quickly as possible. Forcing certain skills and traits to be used to ensure not getting oneshot.

    Were are veterans "brought down"?
    They still should have a much better understanding of the game than new players and be able to come up with new builds and playstyles to adapt to the patch.

    Me and my friends are having a blast already, thinking about wvw builds that could work after the patch. And we greatly appreciate the dmg reduction across the board, we have been talking about that for years now, that we have less fun in wvw because everything was just way too much. Its not fun randomly getting hit by 10-20k from a SINGLE enemy skill in a blob of 50 ppl, those dmg numbers were definately not a thing pre expansions and i have played against good players like redguard or TA, it had nothing to do with a lack of skill or game knowledge.

    "Imaginary powercreep" lol, anet has all the data they need and agree that powercreep exists, how can you ever deny that. Its like talking to someone that denys climate change, big Oof.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:
    Is there anyone on the balance team who can explain why Soulbeast can't swap pets mid-fight in this next update? We're this late into the game and this is an inane change. If you're looking to add drawbacks, there already is one by swapping pets, there's a LARGE cooldown upon unmerging/swapping/merging back, and it doesn't make sense in a PvE perspective. There's nothing innately broken about Soulbeast in general when it comes to swapping pets, it's a direct nerf to Condi Soulbeasts already VERY lacking CC, and a very annoying change to anyone who plays the Power Variant.
    This change seems like an absolute joke.

    Auto-ignoring anyone responding with the same gibberish "nerf meta' attitude, genuinely looking for an answer from the devs on this one.

    Kinda late response but the I believe the reasoning for this is because the devs are trying to align the elite specs back into the vision they originally had when HoT was released, but missed the mark. The devs originally wanted elite specs to simply be an “alternative play style” compared to what the base class offered, but ended up simply being a massive gain over anything the base class offered. Either you took your elite spec or you were fundamentally weaker without it.

    More recently as seen with the other elite spec changes, such as Daredevil swipe range being reduced, Druid pet damage nerf, Scrapper health reduction, berserker allowing standard burst abilities, etc, Anet is wanting to continue this trend into other elite specs.

    Soulbeast was notorious for being a 100% improvement over base ranger. If there is a base ranger build, there’s no reason not to through in the soulbeast line. While yes, there’s long cooldowns for swapping pets and re-merging, that’s not necessarily a trade off because it’s simply how the class works. The only really trade offs possible would have been to either be permanently merged with pets at all times but can still swap, or only have one pet at a time. With this changes you now need to make a choice of whether losing one of your pets is worth taking the soulbeast line. More than likely it will be, players will just need to find ways to compensate it such as using something like warthog for condi which has a headbutt ability when merged.

    While I do agree that it is unfortunate such substantial nerfs and changes are coming to elite specs, I can agree with the devs that reducing the power creep brought with elite specs is a good direction.

    So instead of buffing the core classes up, we're going to actually remove some classes identity in the name of equality? This is horrible design. At this point why even give the option for Soulbeasts to have two pets? It's backwards design and actually ends up being worse in the long run.
    Druid, sure, give it a lore reason so nobody can complain and slap a 10% nerf onto the pet damage, but seriously removing an entire pet from Soulbeast...?
    Literally just kitten nerf anything else we have, as this one makes next to 0 sense.

    I think one issue that can arise from buffing the core classes is that whenever a base class is buffed, so is the elite spec by extension. We can say “okay increase all Druid pet damage by 50%”, but then soulbeasts will also get this buff. I believe the devs are wanting to take a different approach where they bring down the ceiling by nerfing elite specs instead of raising the floor by buffing the base classes.

    This could be separated though by doing something like “if you have 3 base specs you equipped you get X bonus”, but that might go against the inference I listed above of not raising the floor where the devs want to reign in elite specs to be closer to the level that base classes play at opposed your the other way around.

    Removing a pet from soulbeast to focus more on the merging with a pet aspect is how they’re choosing to refocus that specs identity. While ranger itself may be focused on their pets, soulbeast will change that focus to instead be some “strong bond between the ranger and a single pet” kind of thing. The focus on ranger pets are still there, but now it’s a little different.

    While you did mention before that there is nothing innately broken about soulbeast compared to other classes, when comparing it to base ranger it is 100% better in any aspect.

    By that exact same logic, lets get rid of Ascended cooking. It's better than base cooking and nobody uses regular cooking anymore, it offers nothing Unique.
    Lets get rid of Masteries, it's better than playing the base game and is by the same logic, supposed to have "drawbacks" no?

    Base classes in literally any game have never been designed to be top tier, that was the whole point to bringing out Elite Specs, to be a different take on the same class, to mix it up and create something Unique.
    Rather than make a Base class compete with it's own Elite Specs, we're adding half-thought "drawbacks".
    Every Elite Spec offers something Unique.

    Why not make Core Specs Unique?
    They had the right idea by adding to Core Revenant, but haven't buffed or changed that idea since, and it hasn't been a viable option in the majority of cases because it hasn't been pushed up, whether this is due to the Elite Specs being "better" or not doesn't matter, the attempt was never even fully finished.

    Changing Soulbeast + Druid to bring them down offers nothing on the scale of the entire class hierarchy, you're bringing down a class that's already low, you're kicking a dead horse.

    This change looks like it was made by somebody who has never played the class/Spec or even payed attention to how it works, the "drawback" is already there, you not only have to wait on swapping pets, you have to wait on your merge timer as well, it's been there from the start, you have the 100% free option instead to just punish constant swapping, do something fun, not boring, make it a longer and longer cooldown the more you swap in combat, do something that makes sense.
    Go and make something Unique for base Ranger, let it do something wild, give it access to more pets in combat, buff it when you have the 3 base traitlines, let it tame an elder dragon or something, idk, it shouldn't be my job, anything, it's fairly quick to design and would come out infinitely better.

    Let's say we add these "drawbacks" yeah? Guess what, Elite Specs will still entirely still be better than base, the "drawback"s fail and they become literally nothing more than annoyances to everyone.
    The only option from there is to start nerfing again, and then buffing, and it'll repeat until base classes take over for a while or the Elite Specs take over.
    Anyone who invested in their Elite Spec stops playing due to the constant changes and the class not being what they came for, then there's no point to Elite Specs.
    It's the beginning of a cycle that's so predictable it shouldn't happen.

    Otherwise this is all literally pointless and you'll keep having the same issues, it won't end.

    Frankly what they need to do is lock the core profession mechanic traitline behind core. So no Berserkers or Spellbreakers with Discipline. No Soulbeasts or Druids with Beastmastery (that instantly removes half the cheese of Soulbeast btw). No Scourges or Reapers with Soul Reaping Etc.

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048
    So much of the current cheese can be boiled down to the E-Specs changing the class mechanics, yet still taking the trailine that enhances the mechanic anyway.
    I suggest locking these behind the Core specs, and then undoing some of the 'drawbacks' you all have been rolling out. Give Scrappers back their vitality, give stats back to the Druid pet, give Berserker's their toughness back (I'm okay with losing the F1 entirely at this point as that is the alteration of the core mechanic). I think you'll find that balance will be a lot better with those changes, and if that had been done, then this massive patch probably would not have had to happen in the first place.

    Edit to clarify: I don't think Core specs should be forced to take their mechanic traitline, but only Core can access them. So a Necro could do Death Magic, Blood Magic, and Spite for example.

    What defines what the core mechanic traitline is? Imo thats an awful change that i would never want.
    I want to have as many choices as i can.
    If they go on on the way they do, with specializations being specialized in something and not just upgrades from core than thats a good way of doing it.

  • CroTiger.7819CroTiger.7819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Well I've linked what they say on the other post and they clearly specify 2 of the 3 traits which is either the simple truth or misleading. There is no reason to specify 2/3rd of the traits if they can just sum it up to: "merging/unmerging will be counting as a pet swap". Afterall, they have to link through coding the different F4 traits to F5 I doubt there is somewhere a line of code saying: "Any trait that would be triggered by F4 will now be triggered by F5".

    Give us new Eternal Bond which makes ranger take pet location upon merging so we can pair with mobility meta since our range means nothing because of too much gap closers (warior, revs, thiefs). This would make better use off pet ai and we will need to build more tactics around pet which results in more active gameplay with pet. That would help us keep range if well played vs too many gap closers currently in game. Sry for writing it like this great job so far.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CroTiger.7819 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Well I've linked what they say on the other post and they clearly specify 2 of the 3 traits which is either the simple truth or misleading. There is no reason to specify 2/3rd of the traits if they can just sum it up to: "merging/unmerging will be counting as a pet swap". Afterall, they have to link through coding the different F4 traits to F5 I doubt there is somewhere a line of code saying: "Any trait that would be triggered by F4 will now be triggered by F5".

    Give us new Eternal Bond which makes ranger take pet location upon merging so we can pair with mobility meta since our range means nothing because of too much gap closers (warior, revs, thiefs). This would make better use off pet ai and we will need to build more tactics around pet which results in more active gameplay with pet. That would help us keep range if well played vs too many gap closers currently in game. Sry for writing it like this great job so far.

    I dont understand why players that play a class that has the most effective dps at range and that range being also the longest range of all classes thinks they needs more gap closers when it's got 2x long range swoops, smokescale tele etc at its disposal already. Shouldn't having access to good damage at that range be lack of gap closers? I mean as is they already have good gap closing.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If we're going to have a conversation about Death Magic I'd like to step into that. For me personally, I really want to support on Necromancer and not just on Scourge either but with core necromancer in its own unique way. Death magic seemed like a good line for support yet its remained selfish after the update. And the minion traits honestly should be 1 trait with a few of their features rolled into the core minions.

    I don't just say this about minions because they're under-powered as a unite, which they most certainly are, but also for future proofing the specialization. If necromancer was to get an elite specialization centered around minions(No I'm not giving up on future elite specs) or if the devs decide to add further skills to the core classes and minions are included in some of them we could begin to see some real issues with the minion traits. In my opinion the best method of creating a minion spec is without a shroud mechanic but more control over the minions like the scourge has over the shades using life force. Now lets make the assumption that other traits influence these minions in some way. Burning from Dhuumfire and suddenly a 25% damage boost. Imagine if Reaper's shroud or Scourge shades got a passive 25% damage boost just for taking a master tier trait? As for the condition transfer we don't have to imagine how overpowered that was, we lived it with the Minion master reaper build back near HoT launch.

    The only thing holding these traits back from breaking minions wide open is how poorly the minions function as a unite now. Some of these modifiers they give should be rolled into the existing minions to make room for something else. My suggestion is something more supportive to allies and something Minions, Shades, or any other future summon the necromancer might conjure forth could use.

    Perhaps this is asking a bit much right now. And I'll accept that. However these traits have been grinding at me for some time now.... Also please fix the necromancer female's auto axe animation on Sylvari, norn and human...

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    we don't like that a minor trait gives you toughness and can make you a target in some of our content when that's not the goal of your build.

    Other traits with this behavior that we'll be looking at along these lines are:

    • Armored Shroud

    Its going to be very interesting to see how you solve this one considering the fact that changing that trait changes how the entire line works now that carapace was forced into it rather than just making something flat that works all the time like the other lines on other professions have.

    I doubt it will be as easy as just swapping it to vitality allowing scaling vitality in combat which seems like a massive balance issue considering how many traits and things vitality is tied to with the necromancer not to mention it already has a vitality trait in another line. I mean the idea of slapping some one with a curse and in theory leeching some vitality off them (without reducing theirs) is pretty cool and all but boy does that seem like balance nightmare.

    It's much less of an issue because death magic generally isn't run unless it's openworld.

    It could be for some bosses actually even more so as a core tank possibly the issue though is that unlike other professions anet refuses to give necromancer blocks or evades necro does not even have access to the one boon that blocks attacks so that makes it hard to fit into the tank role where some attacks need to be blocked or evaded without moving to keep things easy for the rest of the group. I think there is actually a decent condi reaper build that can also use death magic for the boosted poison damage and it can reach numbers over 25k dps for a damage role (takes much more effort than a power build though) which is not super good but not bad either. The problem is though the stacking toughness which you cannot turn off should your tank be running a lower toughness value this trait could play with that. Death magic has potential its just so situational that most people dont bother to use it. Regardless if its pve or pvp. In pvp death magic has started to see a tiny bit more use and probably will see alot of use going into the new patch where people think necro will be one of the most resilient tanks along side weavers still.

    In pvp though stacking vitality options while in combat might be problematic which is why i called it out so they just dont do a default swap without considering how much stuff that messes with.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935
    A support necro would be fun but i really dont see how they could make it without also making it where people would just use the supportive tools with selfish intent leading to improper balance and other things being nerfed which then leaves them in a state in unviability. Curious if they would also have to break their own personal concept to make this work by giving the necro boons it could share etc. Scourge was already the offensive support so i dont think they need to do that same concept over again unless its literally reworking scourge.

    Imo Anet first needs to rework how support skills function globally so that people wont take them under the idea of selfish intent. (at least in pvp this is more of a noticeable problem.)

    That said you know me im not for losing core shroud but i mean if they want to rework scourge into this i would be down for it. OR if it came as a new elite it would not bother me as an option to play every now and again.

    I still wish scourge shade was more like the Warlock's Thrall in Blade & Soul. You just get one big strong minion that does things from zone control to buffing allies in the area or inflicting cc etc. IT does not move but can be commanded to jump to a target or back to your position i think it even had a stun break that let you swap positions with it. Something like that I would love to see. Shades as anet made them are just too underwhelming for me personally though xD

    @Lily.1935 said:
    Perhaps this is asking a bit much right now. And I'll accept that. However these traits have been grinding at me for some time now.... Also please fix the necromancer female's auto axe animation on Sylvari, norn and human...

    ALL THE OLD AUTO AXE ANIMATIONS WHERE BETTER! FACTS! :astonished:
    Too bad there was an exploit that turned axe 1 into a machine gun that made it hit like an unlimited axe 2 cast. Which is why I'm almost 100% sure the reason they changed it.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    It's much less of an issue because death magic generally isn't run unless it's openworld.

    Well it's used a bit more in sPvP/WvW nowadays. I do hope thought that they will do "more" to DM's issue than just modifying the Death Carapace's toughness by vitality. Personally, I'd be glad if they kept the toughness on death carapace but made use of the major at the master level to modify (or not) the stat bonus from death carapace. (For example: Deadly strength could be a trait that replace toughness by power instead of slapping power on top of the toughness.)

    This is actually a good idea i would love to be able to modify the entire bonus of Carapace instead of just adding ontop of it :+1:

  • CroTiger.7819CroTiger.7819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    I dont understand why players that play a class that has the most effective dps at range and that range being also the longest range of all classes thinks they needs more gap closers when it's got 2x long range swoops, smokescale tele etc at its disposal already. Shouldn't having access to good damage at that range be lack of gap closers? I mean as is they already have good gap closing.

    Man you are playing revenant and crying about range dmg which in 80% scenarios means nothing. All you need as rev to close that range is 1 utility and yet you are talking about range advantage :) Range in this game means nothing because classes like thieves revenants exist and even warior which have no teleports have 3 gap closers which 2 of them are evades. Now tell me about 18 sec recharge swoop which won t be played in 99% scenarios because of 1 pet in combat and smokescale smoke assault which you have as proffesion and its never been op to have it on revenant. You are trying to make something out of range advantage while it sucks in pvp. Its strong only in wvw which i hope we don t talk about. Even ranger run greatsword as second set and its overtuned aswell since if ranger is bad in malee than its genarally bad because there is no range in reality of pvp 80% of time. But yes there are teleports and extreme mobility which are meta since they exist while i can t say same for range dmg in pvp.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:

    @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:
    Is there anyone on the balance team who can explain why Soulbeast can't swap pets mid-fight in this next update? We're this late into the game and this is an inane change. If you're looking to add drawbacks, there already is one by swapping pets, there's a LARGE cooldown upon unmerging/swapping/merging back, and it doesn't make sense in a PvE perspective. There's nothing innately broken about Soulbeast in general when it comes to swapping pets, it's a direct nerf to Condi Soulbeasts already VERY lacking CC, and a very annoying change to anyone who plays the Power Variant.
    This change seems like an absolute joke.

    Auto-ignoring anyone responding with the same gibberish "nerf meta' attitude, genuinely looking for an answer from the devs on this one.

    Kinda late response but the I believe the reasoning for this is because the devs are trying to align the elite specs back into the vision they originally had when HoT was released, but missed the mark. The devs originally wanted elite specs to simply be an “alternative play style” compared to what the base class offered, but ended up simply being a massive gain over anything the base class offered. Either you took your elite spec or you were fundamentally weaker without it.

    More recently as seen with the other elite spec changes, such as Daredevil swipe range being reduced, Druid pet damage nerf, Scrapper health reduction, berserker allowing standard burst abilities, etc, Anet is wanting to continue this trend into other elite specs.

    Soulbeast was notorious for being a 100% improvement over base ranger. If there is a base ranger build, there’s no reason not to through in the soulbeast line. While yes, there’s long cooldowns for swapping pets and re-merging, that’s not necessarily a trade off because it’s simply how the class works. The only really trade offs possible would have been to either be permanently merged with pets at all times but can still swap, or only have one pet at a time. With this changes you now need to make a choice of whether losing one of your pets is worth taking the soulbeast line. More than likely it will be, players will just need to find ways to compensate it such as using something like warthog for condi which has a headbutt ability when merged.

    While I do agree that it is unfortunate such substantial nerfs and changes are coming to elite specs, I can agree with the devs that reducing the power creep brought with elite specs is a good direction.

    So instead of buffing the core classes up, we're going to actually remove some classes identity in the name of equality? This is horrible design. At this point why even give the option for Soulbeasts to have two pets? It's backwards design and actually ends up being worse in the long run.
    Druid, sure, give it a lore reason so nobody can complain and slap a 10% nerf onto the pet damage, but seriously removing an entire pet from Soulbeast...?
    Literally just kitten nerf anything else we have, as this one makes next to 0 sense.

    I think one issue that can arise from buffing the core classes is that whenever a base class is buffed, so is the elite spec by extension. We can say “okay increase all Druid pet damage by 50%”, but then soulbeasts will also get this buff. I believe the devs are wanting to take a different approach where they bring down the ceiling by nerfing elite specs instead of raising the floor by buffing the base classes.

    This could be separated though by doing something like “if you have 3 base specs you equipped you get X bonus”, but that might go against the inference I listed above of not raising the floor where the devs want to reign in elite specs to be closer to the level that base classes play at opposed your the other way around.

    Removing a pet from soulbeast to focus more on the merging with a pet aspect is how they’re choosing to refocus that specs identity. While ranger itself may be focused on their pets, soulbeast will change that focus to instead be some “strong bond between the ranger and a single pet” kind of thing. The focus on ranger pets are still there, but now it’s a little different.

    While you did mention before that there is nothing innately broken about soulbeast compared to other classes, when comparing it to base ranger it is 100% better in any aspect.

    By that exact same logic, lets get rid of Ascended cooking. It's better than base cooking and nobody uses regular cooking anymore, it offers nothing Unique.
    Lets get rid of Masteries, it's better than playing the base game and is by the same logic, supposed to have "drawbacks" no?

    Base classes in literally any game have never been designed to be top tier, that was the whole point to bringing out Elite Specs, to be a different take on the same class, to mix it up and create something Unique.
    Rather than make a Base class compete with it's own Elite Specs, we're adding half-thought "drawbacks".
    Every Elite Spec offers something Unique.

    Why not make Core Specs Unique?
    They had the right idea by adding to Core Revenant, but haven't buffed or changed that idea since, and it hasn't been a viable option in the majority of cases because it hasn't been pushed up, whether this is due to the Elite Specs being "better" or not doesn't matter, the attempt was never even fully finished.

    Changing Soulbeast + Druid to bring them down offers nothing on the scale of the entire class hierarchy, you're bringing down a class that's already low, you're kicking a dead horse.

    This change looks like it was made by somebody who has never played the class/Spec or even payed attention to how it works, the "drawback" is already there, you not only have to wait on swapping pets, you have to wait on your merge timer as well, it's been there from the start, you have the 100% free option instead to just punish constant swapping, do something fun, not boring, make it a longer and longer cooldown the more you swap in combat, do something that makes sense.
    Go and make something Unique for base Ranger, let it do something wild, give it access to more pets in combat, buff it when you have the 3 base traitlines, let it tame an elder dragon or something, idk, it shouldn't be my job, anything, it's fairly quick to design and would come out infinitely better.

    Let's say we add these "drawbacks" yeah? Guess what, Elite Specs will still entirely still be better than base, the "drawback"s fail and they become literally nothing more than annoyances to everyone.
    The only option from there is to start nerfing again, and then buffing, and it'll repeat until base classes take over for a while or the Elite Specs take over.
    Anyone who invested in their Elite Spec stops playing due to the constant changes and the class not being what they came for, then there's no point to Elite Specs.
    It's the beginning of a cycle that's so predictable it shouldn't happen.

    Otherwise this is all literally pointless and you'll keep having the same issues, it won't end.

    Frankly what they need to do is lock the core profession mechanic traitline behind core. So no Berserkers or Spellbreakers with Discipline. No Soulbeasts or Druids with Beastmastery (that instantly removes half the cheese of Soulbeast btw). No Scourges or Reapers with Soul Reaping Etc.

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048
    So much of the current cheese can be boiled down to the E-Specs changing the class mechanics, yet still taking the trailine that enhances the mechanic anyway.
    I suggest locking these behind the Core specs, and then undoing some of the 'drawbacks' you all have been rolling out. Give Scrappers back their vitality, give stats back to the Druid pet, give Berserker's their toughness back (I'm okay with losing the F1 entirely at this point as that is the alteration of the core mechanic). I think you'll find that balance will be a lot better with those changes, and if that had been done, then this massive patch probably would not have had to happen in the first place.

    Edit to clarify: I don't think Core specs should be forced to take their mechanic traitline, but only Core can access them. So a Necro could do Death Magic, Blood Magic, and Spite for example.

    What defines what the core mechanic traitline is? Imo thats an awful change that i would never want.
    I want to have as many choices as i can.
    If they go on on the way they do, with specializations being specialized in something and not just upgrades from core than thats a good way of doing it.

    Its Discipline for Warriors, Soul Reaping for Necros, etc. Back when the trait lines adjusted stats these reduced the CD of the Core Mechanic per point spent, and even now each of them reduce the CD of the Core mechanic and augment them greatly.

    The justification is that the E-Specs modify the core mechanic, so then why then should they able to also access the traitlines that modify the core mechanic? I am not without sympathy for want of a plethora of choices, but the way the Core mechanic traitlines interact with the E-Spec traitlines is part of where the Power Creep has come from. Take Warrior for instance, many people feel Discipline is mandatory (I know you and I do not share that idea with other warriors), and for these people locking them OUT of Discipline while in Berserker or Spellbreaker will force them into new traitlines while keeping multiple options available to Core specs. Its more of forcing more diversity by limiting access to a popular, and often felt to be mandatory, choices.

  • Regading the change to Weaver's Elemental Polyphony:

    Changing this to vitality feels a bit out of touch with the way the earth skills work. Changing the value from toughness to condition damage would feel like a much more natural decision, given that most skills in earth deal condition damage.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    @Lily.1935
    A support necro would be fun but i really dont see how they could make it without also making it where people would just use the supportive tools with selfish intent leading to improper balance and other things being nerfed which then leaves them in a state in unviability. Curious if they would also have to break their own personal concept to make this work by giving the necro boons it could share etc. Scourge was already the offensive support so i dont think they need to do that same concept over again unless its literally reworking scourge.

    Imo Anet first needs to rework how support skills function globally so that people wont take them under the idea of selfish intent. (at least in pvp this is more of a

    Not actually always true. There could be a method where if they give boons they can only give boons but couldn't give themselves boons which would work. There was also the idea that the necromancer could sacrifice stacks of carapace for party support. There are plenty of options that they could take. I'd like it if it also promoted active play from the necromancer rather than the passive play that much of death seems to promote.

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Regarding FMW changes - we're going to see how things land after this set of changes and adjust further, if needed. We're not trying to take FMW out entirely - it should still be a decent source of group quickness, but it shouldn't be leading to stuff as dominant as it currently is.
    With some of the other changes coming in this patch, including a bugfix to Zealous Blades still granting 10% damage when it wasn't supposed to, there are enough moving pieces that we don't want to do so large a takedown that something becomes unused entirely.

    Why not take it out? The Guardian is a dominant class, meta in all game modes, with a lot of strong variants in PvE. Diversity shouldn't be a bad thing.

  • Please don´t forget to adjust the cooldown on Rune of the Firebrand T6 bonus. It currently matches up with "Feel My Wrath" and it would be a real shame if it didnt anymore.

  • Smoosh.2718Smoosh.2718 Member ✭✭✭

    With the changes to the CC damage system, are there plans to change the function of 100 Blades for the Warrior Greatsword skill 2?
    Some of the CC skills ( Bulls Rush ) played a big role in dealing damage equal to that of Rush skill 5, would making this skill mobile be something to consider at this time?

  • Hadi.6025Hadi.6025 Member ✭✭✭

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 please stop asking for player feedback when you don't make any changes that players mention and then put in stealth updates when the patch hits further nerfing things no one asked for.

    Not the Leader of " I will make you [QQ] ", just some how a mascot who everyone loves to hate.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    @Lily.1935
    A support necro would be fun but i really dont see how they could make it without also making it where people would just use the supportive tools with selfish intent leading to improper balance and other things being nerfed which then leaves them in a state in unviability. Curious if they would also have to break their own personal concept to make this work by giving the necro boons it could share etc. Scourge was already the offensive support so i dont think they need to do that same concept over again unless its literally reworking scourge.

    Imo Anet first needs to rework how support skills function globally so that people wont take them under the idea of selfish intent. (at least in pvp this is more of a

    Not actually always true. There could be a method where if they give boons they can only give boons but couldn't give themselves boons which would work. There was also the idea that the necromancer could sacrifice stacks of carapace for party support. There are plenty of options that they could take. I'd like it if it also promoted active play from the necromancer rather than the passive play that much of death seems to promote.

    You have a point but generally maybe all support aspects need to be reworked with your concept in mind here it would help things alot and get people off of using support things for self-sustain which is not how they are exactly intended to be used.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    @Lily.1935
    A support necro would be fun but i really dont see how they could make it without also making it where people would just use the supportive tools with selfish intent leading to improper balance and other things being nerfed which then leaves them in a state in unviability. Curious if they would also have to break their own personal concept to make this work by giving the necro boons it could share etc. Scourge was already the offensive support so i dont think they need to do that same concept over again unless its literally reworking scourge.

    Imo Anet first needs to rework how support skills function globally so that people wont take them under the idea of selfish intent. (at least in pvp this is more of a

    Not actually always true. There could be a method where if they give boons they can only give boons but couldn't give themselves boons which would work. There was also the idea that the necromancer could sacrifice stacks of carapace for party support. There are plenty of options that they could take. I'd like it if it also promoted active play from the necromancer rather than the passive play that much of death seems to promote.

    You have a point but generally maybe all support aspects need to be reworked with your concept in mind here it would help things alot and get people off of using support things for self-sustain which is not how they are exactly intended to be used.

    I'm game for a system wide change like that.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2020

    @MoXAriApph.3650 said:
    Is there anyone on the balance team who can explain why Soulbeast can't swap pets mid-fight in this next update? We're this late into the game and this is an inane change. If you're looking to add drawbacks, there already is one by swapping pets, there's a LARGE cooldown upon unmerging/swapping/merging back, and it doesn't make sense in a PvE perspective. There's nothing innately broken about Soulbeast in general when it comes to swapping pets, it's a direct nerf to Condi Soulbeasts already VERY lacking CC, and a very annoying change to anyone who plays the Power Variant.
    This change seems like an absolute joke.

    Auto-ignoring anyone responding with the same gibberish "nerf meta' attitude, genuinely looking for an answer from the devs on this one.

    Honestly I think that the drawback that should have been added is that Soulbeast's Pet reduces its stats by 10 every second they spend Unmelded, capping out at a reduction in 300.
    This will be thematically fitting because Soulbeasts are stated to have merged with their pet to survive in the desert and rely on each other's strength to pull through.

    I would go ahead and say that Soulbeast (the ranger) will also suffer some stat loss when unmelded but that would probably make some Soulbeast mains raise pitchforks.

    Removing pet swapping is kinda meh way of adding a drawback and it comes across as lazy more than intuitive, literally just taking utility/options from a build or profession.

    I personally have found Druid's pet nerf to not make any ounce of sense because it just hurts the Druids "just cause" and not because it is a special trade in skills for picking Druid.

    It would make more sense if Druid used their Pet's health as fuel for their CA, and when out of CA, Pets regenerate health rapidly whether in combat or not.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Please undo some "tradeoffs" for chrono. Now we lost self shatter, the new shatters are worse than core and we lost an shatter! Those are 3 tradeoffs! Or give other elites 2 more tradeoffs aswell and call it a day. But I prefer the first one.

  • so for on dodge traits that do damage... can you disable them while stealthed? nothings more lame then revealing yourself cuz of some dumb trait, especially if its embedded into the trait line. its really really lame.

    Te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    I would go ahead and say that Soulbeast (the ranger) will also suffer some stat loss when unmelded but that would probably make some Soulbeast mains raise pitchforks.

    You've got that right!

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.