Was/is there a problem with matchmaking? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Was/is there a problem with matchmaking?

I've started playing GW2 again after a couple of years, mostly enjoying PVP. I started out in Gold Tier at 1250 Rating. There I spent a couple of weeks, until last week, matches suddenly became really brutal, and I dropped down to Silver within a single day (down to about 1050 Rating).
I've had big troubles climbing up again all week long, staying between 1050 and 1100. Most matches were complete onesided slaughters - interestingly, with me being on the winning and losing side about 50% of the time. If I lost, my team was getting ripped apart, not even reaching 200 points. And when my team won - I could have just rolled my face over the keyboard, it would not have mattered.
Then suddenly out of nowhere, today I had a 10 game winning streak, and now I'm up from Silver 2 in Gold again.
I really want to point out that I'm not complaining about my rating or class balance or anything. The problem seems that something weird was/is going on with matchmaking. The onesided slaughters are really no fun, not even on the winning side.

Comments

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    It depends on the time of day. I faced platinum players last night in a ranked game, ( I'm low silver. )
    Matches have never been particularly even, but they are better at prime time, afternoons , PST.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Ryan.9387Ryan.9387 Member ✭✭✭

    If the algorithm on the wiki is accurate, matchmaking is broken.

  • I think it is because low pop times. That is when the bots are particularly thick because there are fewer players. Bots seem to really throw off the balance. If the bot account is high rank, but the bot is bad, the team is off. If the account is low rank, but the bot is good, similar results. Also depends if the botters has an ulterior motive than farming gold and can determine bot play

    Had three bot on two of my teams last night. One literally would run up to mid over and over and just stand there waiting to die. She didn't even use skills. She wouldn't even stand on point, just off to the side. Another you uncle, but run away before recapping for our side.

    I won't lie, some of those bots reck me, and they are like terminators, you can't shake them, just have to try to confuse their ai if you can. Flat maps aren't good for that. Some of them even seem to be able to ignore some mechanics, like invisible and fear, so you can't at least get a sec to regroup and respond.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    they should toss the algorithm out the window at this point. it really doesn't work a lot of the time, plus which a ton of ppl are abusing it. it would be interesting to put teams together based on pvp rank (dragon, rabbit whatnot) like they do in some fps games.

    Te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    at night it gets so bad that I lost a game while going 37/1
    that 1 death ment we got 3capped and perma farmed. During peak hours its less bad but its still an issue alot of the time, its very rare to get proper close games where you win/lose by 1-2 wrong rotations.

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    All the problems stem from low population. With low population u get unfair matches that lead to land slide games. The match maker tries to keep everyone in a 50-50 win ratio it seems from all the posters and evidence brought around matchmaking. so one game u might have 1 high plat on ur team (because he has been waiting for 3-6+ min his que has been expanded drastically to include gold's and silvers) that can litteraly 1v3 and farm low tier players, then u get games against those players because they've been in que for a long time so they get thrown into a game against you.

    The currents match maker will always put people into a game eventually regardless of rank. And this is the problem imo. If no one is on that is in your tier to play, well....don't be in that teir. A high ranking plat player should never ever be against a gold or silver ever. I don't care if the high plat que person has to wait 30 min for a game. Anyone who plays against that player and is a full teir at least below shouldn't ever see each other.

  • Metagaming and DuoQing during the low population hours are usually why the matchmaking breaks down.

    If you get longer queue times; typically the matchmaking is going to be worse, because the longer you're in queue, the more desperately the matchmaker tries to find you a match regardless of who with. So if you are repeatedly losing games that you wait a long time for, it might be better to avoid Ranked for a short while.

    There is no shame in queue-dodging so long as the queue styles are merged, especially if you SoloQ.

    Ranked DuoQ 😡👉🚪
    Patch-culture is awful
    Nerfs should be reserved for extreme cases and only done in creative ways that make the game more interesting to play and watch.

  • There is no problem with match making.

    The problem is NA population of active PvPers is too low.

    The difference between somebody hovering at 1450 and say 1550 is much much larger than the numbers would suggest.

    Tbh maybe the powers that be should stop marketing this game as a PvE game.

    That’s why they keep spinning the wheels for new players to just come and go.

    The end game is PvP and the nature of that is endless replayability.

    Rather than make new map reskins, add PvP skin unlocks and auras, and focus on balancing and releasing new skills and classes; they choose to constantly release this one and done PvE kitten.

  • https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

    if i'm reading this correctly then you want to manually re q before 3min.

    Te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • Ryan.9387Ryan.9387 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

    if i'm reading this correctly then you want to manually re q before 3min.

    You want to not use config.rating.distance for games played.

  • Koal.8029Koal.8029 Member
    edited February 15, 2020

    Thanks for all your responses. I can see how low population can explain some of these problems, but I'm still not entirely convinced.
    First, I always lose/win about 12-14 rating points - shouldn't those be inflated/deflated if the odds are stacked towards one side? And in the few odd games my team does manage a come-from-behind victory, I have not noticed a real difference either.
    Second, I had a pretty stable rating for weeks at around 1250. Then I fell by 200 rating points in a single day, stayed down there for dozens of games, and then suddenly got swept up again. 200 ratings is HUGE, if it's even remotely similar to ELO.
    Finally, my rating is only average. The matchmaking algorithm should not run into population problems in that bracket constantly, I'd imagine. Edit: Also, if you just put a platinum player on both sides, that should at least kinda even things out, shouldn't it?

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2020

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    they should toss the algorithm out the window at this point. it really doesn't work a lot of the time, plus which a ton of ppl are abusing it. it would be interesting to put teams together based on pvp rank (dragon, rabbit whatnot) like they do in some fps games.

    Then use what? RNG when people are the same rank?

    Some people have more ranks than I do at 500+ yet are much lower in rating. That wouldn't do anything better.

    The algorithm is fine, the people trying to dodge Q or playing at "Prime" time is the reason why everything feels so chaotic, there is no such thing as prime time. People should just play to play, not hop on an alt account to avoid rating loss when they feel the need to play the game and play on their main when decay starts to kick it, this is something that can be avoided but as I was told, people don't care about rated yet waste their efforts with all those shenanigans.

    Anet needs to increase decay and game requirements on more of a dedication basis rather than just numbers if you want real players to climb.

    1 game is 15 minutes, it's not like playing CS:GO or league for an hour straight.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • @Koal.8029 said:
    Thanks for all your responses. I can see how low population can explain some of these problems, but I'm still not entirely convinced.
    First, I always lose/win about 12-14 rating points - shouldn't those be inflated/deflated if the odds are stacked towards one side? And in the few odd games my team does manage a come-from-behind victory, I have not noticed a real difference either.
    Second, I had a pretty stable rating for weeks at around 1250. Then I fell by 200 rating points in a single day, stayed down there for dozens of games, and then suddenly got swept up again. 200 ratings is HUGE, if it's even remotely similar to ELO.
    Finally, my rating is only average. The matchmaking algorithm should not run into population problems in that bracket constantly, I'd imagine. Edit: Also, if you just put a platinum player on both sides, that should at least kinda even things out, shouldn't it?

    Do you know how the system awards points? I don't. But it's pretty easy to conceive of a plausible explanation for what you observe. For example...

    Blue Team: 5 players, all 1200 rating.

    Red Team: 4 players with 1100 rating and 1 player with 1600 rating.

    If the system uses a simple average of the team's rating, then these teams are perfectly equal. But a 100 rating difference could be negligible while a 400 rating difference almost certainly isn't.

    The system shouldn't be pulling that 1600 rating player into the match with 1100-1200 rating players, but if the pool of available players is small enough, that's what you sometimes end up with.

  • @Ryan.9387 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

    if i'm reading this correctly then you want to manually re q before 3min.

    You want to not use config.rating.distance for games played.

    huh? i'm using filter/ potentials.

    Te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • @Shao.7236 said:
    snips

    yes rng. why not? it will have the same effect as the current match maker who places plat2's against gold 2's, except it might do so evenly for both teams (instead of 1700s and 1500s against 1600s). how is rank even indicative of skill in the first place, when ppl can be carried by builds/ duo/ off hours q'ing or plain luck like getting good placements and ending up at plat1 where the mm forces a 50% win rate on you? or getting massive losing streaks whenever you reach plat? the sad thing is, even if the mm is working fine, the overriding perception is that it is not, which means low pop forever. balance is only one side of the coin. whatever anet does next I think they should consider that. more modes would probably make people forget this for the most part, too bad they are an ancient alien technology that is yet to be discovered if at all.

    Te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2020

    @Stand The Wall.6987

    Because factually speaking whether people that are in high rating or not are good, the way they do it still show if they have generally more knowledge than those who aren't.

    Probably not the same skill compared those who no matter where they end up will carry themselves back up in the rating, hence why good players that end up in like gold 2-3 will pull themselves back up and those who don't deserve plat 1 will go back down into gold 2-3.

    Yes, some people get carried by their build, but some people that know the game even more will reach further heights than those who don't know what they are doing with the same ez builds, meta is cancer for a reason and those who come up with solutions against it with more challenging means are the reason why things don't become so stale.

    Having a system in place is still better than not having one and there is yet to be any other to implement that could be better because the system is technically fine, it's the human factor that keeps breaking it. Going RNG is going to cause even more chaos.

    May the playerbase be fixed so that everything can get back in order, because I remember how legendary was easily accessible, that was 3 years ago before PoF dropped and made people rage with those broken unkillable builds.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • @Shao.7236 said:
    snips

    dood its already rng. at least a mm that uses pvp rank is transparent and won't cause ppl to question the system itself. sometimes the perception of fairness is more powerful then the actual reality. probably will get more or less the same types of matches as we do currently. I can count the number of good close games I've had on one hand (not really just making a point). anyway i'm not fully serious about this, just disillusioned.

    Te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

    if i'm reading this correctly then you want to manually re q before 3min.

    This is good advice. I tried leaving the queue and re-queueing after 2 minutes. It seems to ensure a more even match.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    snips

    even if the mm is working fine, the overriding perception is that it is not, which means low pop forever. balance is only one side of the coin.

    Quoted for truth. The emphasis is mine

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Smith.3472Smith.3472 Member
    edited February 16, 2020

    Match making is horrible and you're basically at the whim of four strangers in that they will also play coordinated, or just do as what someone else did...

    "I'm going to keep queuing for dailies!" but proceeds to run around, feed, not play objectives ,etc. Basically ruining the experience for others.

    When told "Hey, could you que unranked in that case?" People pitch a fit and get mad and say it's not my place to say what and what not they play - which sure, is true. But why are you going to be 'that' person. Who just doesn't care about their team.

    At this point. Rank is meaningless in my eyes. It's very clearly poorly designed or innately geared towards casuals. I placed mid-gold, had solid matches. Next two or three days. Almost every 8 out of 10 games I'd lose because of...

    1.) Legitimate bots. (Or so I think) 'Players' who'd run into walls, run in random directions, idle, and do nothing.
    2.) Don't understand their class.
    3.) Don't understand the maps & the objectives.
    4.) Don't understand running in 1v3(4, 5) is guaranteeing death most of the time, and feeding.

    Let's not forget the best kind of player. The one who is super toxic and -also- is one or multiple of the above points.

    It's frustrating. I -want- to play the PvP and enjoy it, but at this point I have to play with my competitiveness in reserve and just treat it like a casual match because again - about 8 out of every 10 matches, I'm basically queued with people who don't care, don't know how to play, or are legitimate bots (or acting like ones).

    Call it abuse but at this point I just report people who do any kind of this stuff. I don't know what else to do. There's no information online on how to deal with this, there is no in-game way to report people properly for some of these things, it's just a mess.

    Lets not forget how MMR works. You lose a game, you lose like double or nearly triple the points you'd get winning. This kind of system is stupid. You should be rewarded with more points for wins - and less for losses. That way when you do manage to carry, or you do manage to get a solid team; you should get that extra boost up in rank. I'm honestly convinced I'm going to drop rank so much just because of the bad queues.

    And if someone says "Well it depends on when you're queueing." I'm queueing at prime times when people would be on during my time EST.

    Also-also, what is with the constant matches where I'm having nothing but spanish players in my game? People lagging, speaking a different language, etc. Not hating on them as a people or their language - but do you know how frustrating it is to have a team who you legitimately can't even speak to, or fighting a team that just lags around.

    /rantover

  • Alin.2468Alin.2468 Member ✭✭✭

    Nope. There is no problem. This game is perfect, actually more than perfect, considering you can play alone (in a group).

    One man trash another man treasure.

  • I played on a new alt account recently. I was placed silver 2 and climbed to gold 3 which is my usual rating. I did not climbed that fast as I would have expected. I got maybe a 60% winning rate and surprisingly I did not get many matches with throwers or AFK (which I started to encounter around gold 2). But what really makes me question the MMS is that out of the 40% matches I lost, most of them were 100s / 500 while my team did try their best.

    What i want to point out here is that I was playing on an alt with a much lower rank that my true rank meaning that these matches we lost 100 / 500 were lost from the start no matter what the team could have done as extra efforts or coordination. In my opinion, the MMS is not suitable for the current population and is feeding the game with impossible to win / lose matches to favor queue time over quality game.

    I'd rather wait a little longer for quality matches rather than waste 10 minutes playing a complete unfair match. While this balance patch is a good sign of some attention being brought into PVP, the main issue of PVP today is the matchmaking which exacerbates balance issue perception and with the slower pace of PVP gameplay incoming, it is going to be even more frustrating.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    snips

    dood its already rng. at least a mm that uses pvp rank is transparent and won't cause ppl to question the system itself. sometimes the perception of fairness is more powerful then the actual reality. probably will get more or less the same types of matches as we do currently. I can count the number of good close games I've had on one hand (not really just making a point). anyway i'm not fully serious about this, just disillusioned.

    Controlled RNG is better than Pure RNG. Implying removing the chances of fair odds is better than none.

    Y'all stuck in the illusion that anything would be better than what you already have, begging for change when in reality it will and only get worst.

    The claims that pure RNG would be healthier for a game where people want things to be fair, it's a self contradicting statement.

    People gobble that up even if you're disillusioned. Full context is never a thing.

    @Ivarian.9018

    There is still no better system, people better start playing and getting good or it'll be the end of it. Also alt accounts are another issue of it's own for the match manipulators on top. Playing on an alt account itself is match manipulating because you're falsifying the ratings of the main account involved.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • @Shao.7236 said:
    Controlled RNG is better than Pure RNG. Implying removing the chances of fair odds is better than none.

    Y'all stuck in the illusion that anything would be better than what you already have, begging for change when in reality it will and only get worst.

    The claims that pure RNG would be healthier for a game where people want things to be fair, it's a self contradicting statement.

    People gobble that up even if you're disillusioned. Full context is never a thing.

    lol. making matches based on pvp rank isn't pure rng. that's false. its also false to assume that glicko2 can realistically calculate a persons skill with the amount of factors in gw2s pvp. I wouldn't be saying that if pvp was 100% teams but its not. whats not fair is the current system, so hopefully they don't just leave it as is and hope for the best since that sort of attitude doesn't fix anything.

    Te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • @Ivarian.9018 said:
    I'd rather wait a little longer for quality matches rather than waste 10 minutes playing a complete unfair match. While this balance patch is a good sign of some attention being brought into PVP, the main issue of PVP today is the matchmaking which exacerbates balance issue perception and with the slower pace of PVP gameplay incoming, it is going to be even more frustrating.

    ^^^^ You just won the game.

    Everyone hating eachother over balance when the Ranked/competitive is an actual nightmare to play due to metagaming and one-sided matchmaking.

    Would much rather a PvP-content patch that gets rid of the metagaming, changes how rating is awarded slightly, introduces stricter punishments for idle-players, and adds actual reasonable new content like a separate Solo/Team ladder and maybe some new maps/modes to go along with it.

    This 'big balance patch' is just going to be more of the same. Just go around the PvP section of the forum or look in the PvP-lobby and you'll see that it's just lead to a bunch of arguing and people threatening to quit just like every other balance patch ever, and none of it will matter in like 4-6 weeks anyways when it changes.

    A change that benefits everyone on a bigger scope and more long-term would be great.

    Ranked DuoQ 😡👉🚪
    Patch-culture is awful
    Nerfs should be reserved for extreme cases and only done in creative ways that make the game more interesting to play and watch.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Controlled RNG is better than Pure RNG. Implying removing the chances of fair odds is better than none.

    Y'all stuck in the illusion that anything would be better than what you already have, begging for change when in reality it will and only get worst.

    The claims that pure RNG would be healthier for a game where people want things to be fair, it's a self contradicting statement.

    People gobble that up even if you're disillusioned. Full context is never a thing.

    lol. making matches based on pvp rank isn't pure rng. that's false. its also false to assume that glicko2 can realistically calculate a persons skill with the amount of factors in gw2s pvp. I wouldn't be saying that if pvp was 100% teams but its not. whats not fair is the current system, so hopefully they don't just leave it as is and hope for the best since that sort of attitude doesn't fix anything.

    I could be playing for years and have the highest pvp rank and still be a baddie. Why should I be paired permanently with those that have been playing just as long but are a thousand times better than I, that's why the system you're suggesting fails over the current one.

    The current system already does it better than anything else, again the human factor in it is at it's fault. The balance means nothing to it, it's irrelevant to bring balance in the system when the player itself should already know what they are doing over the other.

    You're not willing to accept that you, I and everyone else are the mistakes here. Deal with it.

    You know what people play and do, play around it. You can say you don't want to be meta but nothing stops you from playing around that meta, that's where the playerbase fails to make it go full circle. Just whining on the forums about how unfair one thing is when they have all the freedom and power to boasts against it.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

    @Ivarian.9018 said:
    I'd rather wait a little longer for quality matches rather than waste 10 minutes playing a complete unfair match. While this balance patch is a good sign of some attention being brought into PVP, the main issue of PVP today is the matchmaking which exacerbates balance issue perception and with the slower pace of PVP gameplay incoming, it is going to be even more frustrating.

    ^^^^ You just won the game.

    Everyone hating eachother over balance when the Ranked/competitive is an actual nightmare to play due to metagaming and one-sided matchmaking.

    Would much rather a PvP-content patch that gets rid of the metagaming, changes how rating is awarded slightly, introduces stricter punishments for idle-players, and adds actual reasonable new content like a separate Solo/Team ladder and maybe some new maps/modes to go along with it.

    This 'big balance patch' is just going to be more of the same. Just go around the PvP section of the forum or look in the PvP-lobby and you'll see that it's just lead to a bunch of arguing and people threatening to quit just like every other balance patch ever, and none of it will matter in like 4-6 weeks anyways when it changes.

    A change that benefits everyone on a bigger scope and more long-term would be great.

    These two understand what's up. Honestly. I could look past the unbalanced nature of PvP, -IF- it meant I was going to play with people who also want to try; against other players who want to try. Just had a guy throw one of my game (Just AFK'd in spawn and began to be toxic) Then guess what? Next game he was on the other team. Lo' and behold guess who stopped showing up to fights and my team won flawlessly.

    All it takes is -one- person to mess your game up. Pretty absurd.

  • @Shao.7236 said:
    snips

    do you think the current mm should be changed?

    Te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • kratan.4619kratan.4619 Member ✭✭✭

    @Alin.2468 said:
    Nope. There is no problem. This game is perfect, actually more than perfect, considering you can play alone (in a group).

    Agree with this, people who do not want to "get friends" do not get punished by having to pug against full organized groups.

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ranked matches have better quality than unranked, unless you playing in the morning, when you find the high plat duos climbing the leaderboards, even tho if felt they broke the game too much you can just add them to friends and set their name duo, you prolly won't have more than 2 duos at once.

    what i think is really annoying is get matched against 4-5 man stacks in unranked with no chance of winning, most of them have at least one plat player that honestly could carry the game by himself even if his team were all pugs

    I also have all this ppl set as premade in my friendlist and I hate the fact I have to dodge them to play my meme builds to maybe have some fun.

  • choovanski.5462choovanski.5462 Member ✭✭✭✭

    huh?
    still against teams in ranked?
    still complaining about the quality of your teammates in ranked?
    you guys been doing this for years and you're all still unable to get it

    It's coming for me through the trees
    Help me someone
    Help me please
    Take my shoes off and throw them in the lake

  • I'm pretty sure population is at an all time low. Even when I queue during prime time lately it's taking noticeably longer than usual. And as already mentioned, queue duration seems to correlate with match quality.

    After playing daily for the last several seasons, I'm on the verge of calling it quits myself. The mostly lopsided matches, the crushing loss streaks, the occasional toxic players, and the never-ending cheese meta have taken their toll. :(