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Smokescreen might be the single most broken ability in the game


Zenix.6198

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@Shao.7236 said:@Leonidrex.5649 I get a predictable 2 seconds of Resistance every 5 seconds, I'm not really concerned by the loss if I can stop the stealth to just toss a Thief around in a chain of CC and AoE damage.

good for you, what about 98% of playarbase that doesnt get pulsing resistance?waht about any projectal class? should the just leave the game, whoopsie thief using smoke, time to do the laundry see you next?

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Shao.7236 said:@Leonidrex.5649Yeah I guess anytime I win everyone is bad, got it.

There's absolutely no reason why me with Resistance and an AoE larger than their Smoke Screen should not miss. I mean yes that field is huge at 240 radius, but my CC is 360 radius.

I win, they bad.

its funny that you have to pop resistance/ 360 aoe CC to counter 1 utility thats so broken it can be used for 3+ different things.most of what it does is cherry on a cake.look at feedback and you will realise how lacking that skill is compared to smoke.most skills do 1-2 things and thats it, smoke does too many things and increasing cooldown doesnt change the fact that it compleatly kitten on projectiles.while kitten on melee slow hiting classes, while also being super stealth field.

When a thief drops this god like skill it basically screame's cleave in this area as the pulsing blind is not 100% dependable on damage avoidance and as squishy as a thief is can be killed by a few cleaves. I've killed so many thieves gs3 thru their smoke field and have got salty msges via chat after just standing their cleaving thin air within the field only to find the thief downed once their stealth duration ends lol. I'm sry but maybe u should actually try employing counterplay measures instead of running to the forums constantly trying to have ur nemesis class nerfed to the ground. Ud fair off better in the end no?.Smoke screen cd was to low at 25 and 35 woulda been just fine for what it is. Almost doubling the current cd is to much imo.Anyway it's been nerfed enough now at 45 sec so move on so u can decide what else about thief u can claim is broken and need nerfs to so u can spam the threads with those :)

I can say the same thing when I 1shot you from stealth.just random dodge my combo.I dont have problem with kitten thiefs that play like bots and die like bots. I have problem with thiefs that use their skills properly, becouse smoke screen used properly has no counters, and those that "semi work" are kitten.Oh GJ you hit gs3 in large pulsing aoe blind field, what stopped the thief from dodging it? and running you down? or mb ignoring you.SF gives you immunity to propably 70% things in the game, kitten thief will get dumped by that 30% and people like you are content with it, meanwhile normal nonretarded thief will just dodge OBV gs3. simple example. Skill is bloated.its better at proj hate then feedbackits better at stealthing then veilits better pulsing field then well of darkness

Um what? One shotting someone outa stealth on a cheese mesmer burst is the same as a thief dropping a easily identifiable area that they can be pretty easily cleaved in? If those two things are remotely the same to u than I don't kno what to tell ya lol.A stealth'd up thief completing a backstab out of nowhere would be the similar scanaro.

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to all of you defending this skill with niche.every single thing can be defended like that.DONT nerf mirage. just use perma reflect.dont nerf 1shot mes, just use autoevade thief !dont nerf firebrand, just dont fight them! outrotate!dont nerf corrupt boons, just dont get stability !dont nerf power damage, just use build with perma prot and 3k toughtnessdont nerf condi, just cleanse every 3sdont nerf mobility just play more mobile builddont nerf teleports Just play warrior and hit tetherdont nerf might generation 25 might is fine, just removed it! my build removes might and im fine with perma 25might builds, and I dont care that everyone else doesnt. MY builds is fine so its fine.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Shao.7236 said:@Leonidrex.5649Yeah I guess anytime I win everyone is bad, got it.

There's absolutely no reason why me with Resistance and an AoE larger than their Smoke Screen should not miss. I mean yes that field is huge at 240 radius, but my CC is 360 radius.

I win, they bad.

its funny that you have to pop resistance/ 360 aoe CC to counter 1 utility thats so broken it can be used for 3+ different things.most of what it does is cherry on a cake.look at feedback and you will realise how lacking that skill is compared to smoke.most skills do 1-2 things and thats it, smoke does too many things and increasing cooldown doesnt change the fact that it compleatly kitten on projectiles.while kitten on melee slow hiting classes, while also being super stealth field.

When a thief drops this god like skill it basically screame's cleave in this area as the pulsing blind is not 100% dependable on damage avoidance and as squishy as a thief is can be killed by a few cleaves. I've killed so many thieves gs3 thru their smoke field and have got salty msges via chat after just standing their cleaving thin air within the field only to find the thief downed once their stealth duration ends lol. I'm sry but maybe u should actually try employing counterplay measures instead of running to the forums constantly trying to have ur nemesis class nerfed to the ground. Ud fair off better in the end no?.Smoke screen cd was to low at 25 and 35 woulda been just fine for what it is. Almost doubling the current cd is to much imo.Anyway it's been nerfed enough now at 45 sec so move on so u can decide what else about thief u can claim is broken and need nerfs to so u can spam the threads with those :)

I can say the same thing when I 1shot you from stealth.just random dodge my combo.I dont have problem with kitten thiefs that play like bots and die like bots. I have problem with thiefs that use their skills properly, becouse smoke screen used properly has no counters, and those that "semi work" are kitten.Oh GJ you hit gs3 in large pulsing aoe blind field, what stopped the thief from dodging it? and running you down? or mb ignoring you.SF gives you immunity to propably 70% things in the game, kitten thief will get dumped by that 30% and people like you are content with it, meanwhile normal nonretarded thief will just dodge OBV gs3. simple example. Skill is bloated.its better at proj hate then feedbackits better at stealthing then veilits better pulsing field then well of darkness

Um what? One shotting someone outa stealth on a cheese mesmer burst is the same as a thief dropping a easily identifiable area that they can be pretty easily cleaved in? If those two things are remotely the same to u than I don't kno what to tell ya lol

if you are quick you can dodge mesmer burst.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Shao.7236 said:@Leonidrex.5649Yeah I guess anytime I win everyone is bad, got it.

There's absolutely no reason why me with Resistance and an AoE larger than their Smoke Screen should not miss. I mean yes that field is huge at 240 radius, but my CC is 360 radius.

I win, they bad.

its funny that you have to pop resistance/ 360 aoe CC to counter 1 utility thats so broken it can be used for 3+ different things.most of what it does is cherry on a cake.look at feedback and you will realise how lacking that skill is compared to smoke.most skills do 1-2 things and thats it, smoke does too many things and increasing cooldown doesnt change the fact that it compleatly kitten on projectiles.while kitten on melee slow hiting classes, while also being super stealth field.

When a thief drops this god like skill it basically screame's cleave in this area as the pulsing blind is not 100% dependable on damage avoidance and as squishy as a thief is can be killed by a few cleaves. I've killed so many thieves gs3 thru their smoke field and have got salty msges via chat after just standing their cleaving thin air within the field only to find the thief downed once their stealth duration ends lol. I'm sry but maybe u should actually try employing counterplay measures instead of running to the forums constantly trying to have ur nemesis class nerfed to the ground. Ud fair off better in the end no?.Smoke screen cd was to low at 25 and 35 woulda been just fine for what it is. Almost doubling the current cd is to much imo.Anyway it's been nerfed enough now at 45 sec so move on so u can decide what else about thief u can claim is broken and need nerfs to so u can spam the threads with those :)

I can say the same thing when I 1shot you from stealth.just random dodge my combo.I dont have problem with kitten thiefs that play like bots and die like bots. I have problem with thiefs that use their skills properly, becouse smoke screen used properly has no counters, and those that "semi work" are kitten.Oh GJ you hit gs3 in large pulsing aoe blind field, what stopped the thief from dodging it? and running you down? or mb ignoring you.SF gives you immunity to propably 70% things in the game, kitten thief will get dumped by that 30% and people like you are content with it, meanwhile normal nonretarded thief will just dodge OBV gs3. simple example. Skill is bloated.its better at proj hate then feedbackits better at stealthing then veilits better pulsing field then well of darkness

Um what? One shotting someone outa stealth on a cheese mesmer burst is the same as a thief dropping a easily identifiable area that they can be pretty easily cleaved in? If those two things are remotely the same to u than I don't kno what to tell ya lol

if you are quick you can dodge mesmer burst.

Ah that makes sense to compare to a thief using smokescreen and being in a easily identifiable cleave zone. Donno how I missed the connection.Are we not talking about the skill itself anymore? Or are we talking about the possible actions a thief can do after using the skill for long duration stealth, I'm confused.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Shao.7236 said:@Leonidrex.5649 I get a predictable 2 seconds of Resistance every 5 seconds, I'm not really concerned by the loss if I can stop the stealth to just toss a Thief around in a chain of CC and AoE damage.

good for you, what about 98% of playarbase that doesnt get pulsing resistance?waht about any projectal class? should the just leave the game, whoopsie thief using smoke, time to do the laundry see you next?

You can toss him out with GS5, track with GS4, dab with GS3, even GS2 is unblockable and GS1 doesn't care about barriers??

Seriously, that's just GS alone and even Chronomancer could laugh with /any/ AoE it has. What about ANYTHING that's AoE anyway??

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I'm looking at smokescreen from a warrior point of view and if I'm not mistaken sha from rev and it's not really a huge problem skills as u leo make it out to be, I think that it belonging to thief is the bigger offender here for u. As a mesmer player ur gs blast right thru it lol are thief's really a issue for u in part due to this skill?

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Shao.7236 said:@Leonidrex.5649Yeah I guess anytime I win everyone is bad, got it.

There's absolutely no reason why me with Resistance and an AoE larger than their Smoke Screen should not miss. I mean yes that field is huge at 240 radius, but my CC is 360 radius.

I win, they bad.

its funny that you have to pop resistance/ 360 aoe CC to counter 1 utility thats so broken it can be used for 3+ different things.most of what it does is cherry on a cake.look at feedback and you will realise how lacking that skill is compared to smoke.most skills do 1-2 things and thats it, smoke does too many things and increasing cooldown doesnt change the fact that it compleatly kitten on projectiles.while kitten on melee slow hiting classes, while also being super stealth field.

When a thief drops this god like skill it basically screame's cleave in this area as the pulsing blind is not 100% dependable on damage avoidance and as squishy as a thief is can be killed by a few cleaves. I've killed so many thieves gs3 thru their smoke field and have got salty msges via chat after just standing their cleaving thin air within the field only to find the thief downed once their stealth duration ends lol. I'm sry but maybe u should actually try employing counterplay measures instead of running to the forums constantly trying to have ur nemesis class nerfed to the ground. Ud fair off better in the end no?.Smoke screen cd was to low at 25 and 35 woulda been just fine for what it is. Almost doubling the current cd is to much imo.Anyway it's been nerfed enough now at 45 sec so move on so u can decide what else about thief u can claim is broken and need nerfs to so u can spam the threads with those :)

I can say the same thing when I 1shot you from stealth.just random dodge my combo.I dont have problem with kitten thiefs that play like bots and die like bots. I have problem with thiefs that use their skills properly, becouse smoke screen used properly has no counters, and those that "semi work" are kitten.Oh GJ you hit gs3 in large pulsing aoe blind field, what stopped the thief from dodging it? and running you down? or mb ignoring you.SF gives you immunity to propably 70% things in the game, kitten thief will get dumped by that 30% and people like you are content with it, meanwhile normal nonretarded thief will just dodge OBV gs3. simple example. Skill is bloated.its better at proj hate then feedbackits better at stealthing then veilits better pulsing field then well of darkness

Um what? One shotting someone outa stealth on a cheese mesmer burst is the same as a thief dropping a easily identifiable area that they can be pretty easily cleaved in? If those two things are remotely the same to u than I don't kno what to tell ya lol

if you are quick you can dodge mesmer burst.

Ah that makes sense to compare to a thief using smokescreen and being in a easily identifiable cleave zone. Donno how I missed the connection.Are we not talking about the skill itself anymore? Or are we talking about the possible actions a thief can do after using the skill for long duration stealth, I'm confused.

there is a skill, then there is a counter, then there is a counter to counter.its like thiefs shadow meld, you might reveal deadeye, but he can show you middle finger and stealth anyways.there shouldnt be skills that are good at everything, while also being ultimate counter to something.thats why feedback is fine, you wanna hard counter proj, you take feedback. you dont get to also pulse blind and stealth at will from the same skill.

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@Shao.7236 said:

@Shao.7236 said:@Leonidrex.5649 I get a predictable 2 seconds of Resistance every 5 seconds, I'm not really concerned by the loss if I can stop the stealth to just toss a Thief around in a chain of CC and AoE damage.

good for you, what about 98% of playarbase that doesnt get pulsing resistance?waht about any projectal class? should the just leave the game, whoopsie thief using smoke, time to do the laundry see you next?

You can toss him out with GS5, track with GS4, dab with GS3, even GS2 is unblockable and GS1 doesn't care about barriers??

Seriously, that's just GS alone and even Chronomancer could laugh with /any/ AoE it has. What about ANYTHING that's AoE anyway??

GS 4 is pro so it dissapears, and berserke would get blinded in the field to miss.gs 2 lands true. gs 1 lands true.gs 3 lands, gs5 doesnt land, it has shorter range then the field 480 vs 450.even using wells ( assuming anyone would take chrono ) you can leave the field, its still blocking projectiles :Dyou can walk away from the smoke and still blast for stealth next to it.thats what I ment that those are counters for bad thiefs, If I were to play chrono and If I were to drop the well to damage stealthed thief, they can just stand 10 pixels next to it, take no damage and continue stealthing.If im proj based class, and drop pulsing field on top of it, thief moves to the other end I still cant touch him, it still blocks projectiles.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Shao.7236 said:@Leonidrex.5649 I get a predictable 2 seconds of Resistance every 5 seconds, I'm not really concerned by the loss if I can stop the stealth to just toss a Thief around in a chain of CC and AoE damage.

good for you, what about 98% of playarbase that doesnt get pulsing resistance?waht about any projectal class? should the just leave the game, whoopsie thief using smoke, time to do the laundry see you next?

You can toss him out with GS5, track with GS4, dab with GS3, even GS2 is unblockable and GS1 doesn't care about barriers??

Seriously, that's just GS alone and even Chronomancer could laugh with /any/ AoE it has. What about ANYTHING that's AoE anyway??

GS 4 is pro so it dissapears, and berserke would get blinded in the field to miss.gs 2 lands true. gs 1 lands true.gs 3 lands, gs5 doesnt land, it has shorter range then the field 480 vs 450.even using wells ( assuming anyone would take chrono ) you can leave the field, its still blocking projectiles :Dyou can walk away from the smoke and still blast for stealth next to it.thats what I ment that those are counters for bad thiefs, If I were to play chrono and If I were to drop the well to damage stealthed thief, they can just stand 10 pixels next to it, take no damage and continue stealthing.If im proj based class, and drop pulsing field on top of it, thief moves to the other end I still cant touch him, it still blocks projectiles.

Your berserkers are multi-hits. They will only get blinded once as they shred through, as for GS5 is more likely to hit than not, you've stated the odds and numbers yourself, they are leaping for stealth or blasting, one is more likely to hit than the other but the latter remains they cannot always be evading when you aren't seeing them.

Don't deny your tools, the cooldown feels somewhat bloated yes but the skill itself is nothing short of what it always was until it just became a circle, like always they are stalling cooldowns and you want to prevent that so, you do you.

Clear a Mind Wrack to see if they are around and within the second pop Diversion for an halt, I mean even F4 can do it if you care to risk and go for the kill knowing they are on CD and try to avoid you.

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@Shao.7236 said:

@Shao.7236 said:@Leonidrex.5649 I get a predictable 2 seconds of Resistance every 5 seconds, I'm not really concerned by the loss if I can stop the stealth to just toss a Thief around in a chain of CC and AoE damage.

good for you, what about 98% of playarbase that doesnt get pulsing resistance?waht about any projectal class? should the just leave the game, whoopsie thief using smoke, time to do the laundry see you next?

You can toss him out with GS5, track with GS4, dab with GS3, even GS2 is unblockable and GS1 doesn't care about barriers??

Seriously, that's just GS alone and even Chronomancer could laugh with /any/ AoE it has. What about ANYTHING that's AoE anyway??

GS 4 is pro so it dissapears, and berserke would get blinded in the field to miss.gs 2 lands true. gs 1 lands true.gs 3 lands, gs5 doesnt land, it has shorter range then the field 480 vs 450.even using wells ( assuming anyone would take chrono ) you can leave the field, its still blocking projectiles :Dyou can walk away from the smoke and still blast for stealth next to it.thats what I ment that those are counters for bad thiefs, If I were to play chrono and If I were to drop the well to damage stealthed thief, they can just stand 10 pixels next to it, take no damage and continue stealthing.If im proj based class, and drop pulsing field on top of it, thief moves to the other end I still cant touch him, it still blocks projectiles.

Your berserkers are multi-hits. They will only get blinded once as they shred through, as for GS5 is more likely to hit than not, you've stated the odds and numbers yourself, they are leaping for stealth or blasting, one is more likely to hit than the other but the latter remains they cannot always be evading when you aren't seeing them.

Don't deny your tools, the cooldown feels somewhat bloated yes but the skill itself is nothing short of what it always was until it just became a circle.

I dont want the skill to become once a year use fuck to everyone button. dagger storm is for that.they could much lower the duration for example, 7s is a bloody long time to deny projectilesand Im not denying counters. Im being relistic. and realistically, I will knock bad thief out of the field with gs5, but the good one will be at the edge, our even out of the field while blasting, and I wont do a thing to him, thats the point.gs4 is a multihit indeed, but half of its damage is the projectile ( blade ) and other half phantasm, realistically never hits 4 ticks. its 2-3 so even if 1 tick of daamge gets blinded its propably about 75% damage blocked.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Shao.7236 said:@Leonidrex.5649Yeah I guess anytime I win everyone is bad, got it.

There's absolutely no reason why me with Resistance and an AoE larger than their Smoke Screen should not miss. I mean yes that field is huge at 240 radius, but my CC is 360 radius.

I win, they bad.

its funny that you have to pop resistance/ 360 aoe CC to counter 1 utility thats so broken it can be used for 3+ different things.most of what it does is cherry on a cake.look at feedback and you will realise how lacking that skill is compared to smoke.most skills do 1-2 things and thats it, smoke does too many things and increasing cooldown doesnt change the fact that it compleatly kitten on projectiles.while kitten on melee slow hiting classes, while also being super stealth field.

When a thief drops this god like skill it basically screame's cleave in this area as the pulsing blind is not 100% dependable on damage avoidance and as squishy as a thief is can be killed by a few cleaves. I've killed so many thieves gs3 thru their smoke field and have got salty msges via chat after just standing their cleaving thin air within the field only to find the thief downed once their stealth duration ends lol. I'm sry but maybe u should actually try employing counterplay measures instead of running to the forums constantly trying to have ur nemesis class nerfed to the ground. Ud fair off better in the end no?.Smoke screen cd was to low at 25 and 35 woulda been just fine for what it is. Almost doubling the current cd is to much imo.Anyway it's been nerfed enough now at 45 sec so move on so u can decide what else about thief u can claim is broken and need nerfs to so u can spam the threads with those :)

I can say the same thing when I 1shot you from stealth.just random dodge my combo.I dont have problem with kitten thiefs that play like bots and die like bots. I have problem with thiefs that use their skills properly, becouse smoke screen used properly has no counters, and those that "semi work" are kitten.Oh GJ you hit gs3 in large pulsing aoe blind field, what stopped the thief from dodging it? and running you down? or mb ignoring you.SF gives you immunity to propably 70% things in the game, kitten thief will get dumped by that 30% and people like you are content with it, meanwhile normal nonretarded thief will just dodge OBV gs3. simple example. Skill is bloated.its better at proj hate then feedbackits better at stealthing then veilits better pulsing field then well of darkness

Um what? One shotting someone outa stealth on a cheese mesmer burst is the same as a thief dropping a easily identifiable area that they can be pretty easily cleaved in? If those two things are remotely the same to u than I don't kno what to tell ya lol

if you are quick you can dodge mesmer burst.

Ah that makes sense to compare to a thief using smokescreen and being in a easily identifiable cleave zone. Donno how I missed the connection.Are we not talking about the skill itself anymore? Or are we talking about the possible actions a thief can do after using the skill for long duration stealth, I'm confused.

there is a skill, then there is a counter, then there is a counter to counter.its like thiefs shadow meld, you might reveal deadeye, but he can show you middle finger and stealth anyways.there shouldnt be skills that are good at everything, while also being ultimate counter to something.thats why feedback is fine, you wanna hard counter proj, you take feedback. you dont get to also pulse blind and stealth at will from the same skill.

The DE being able to counter reveal has always been considered a stupid mechanic even by most thiefs and ur right that is example of a counter to a counter which this game has to much of and should never have made it into the game but that has little to do with smoke screen which is a skill that does have simple counters. I also wouldn't categorize it in with or as a counter skill of a counter skill either.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Shao.7236 said:@Leonidrex.5649 I get a predictable 2 seconds of Resistance every 5 seconds, I'm not really concerned by the loss if I can stop the stealth to just toss a Thief around in a chain of CC and AoE damage.

good for you, what about 98% of playarbase that doesnt get pulsing resistance?waht about any projectal class? should the just leave the game, whoopsie thief using smoke, time to do the laundry see you next?

You can toss him out with GS5, track with GS4, dab with GS3, even GS2 is unblockable and GS1 doesn't care about barriers??

Seriously, that's just GS alone and even Chronomancer could laugh with /any/ AoE it has. What about ANYTHING that's AoE anyway??

GS 4 is pro so it dissapears, and berserke would get blinded in the field to miss.gs 2 lands true. gs 1 lands true.gs 3 lands, gs5 doesnt land, it has shorter range then the field 480 vs 450.even using wells ( assuming anyone would take chrono ) you can leave the field, its still blocking projectiles :Dyou can walk away from the smoke and still blast for stealth next to it.thats what I ment that those are counters for bad thiefs, If I were to play chrono and If I were to drop the well to damage stealthed thief, they can just stand 10 pixels next to it, take no damage and continue stealthing.If im proj based class, and drop pulsing field on top of it, thief moves to the other end I still cant touch him, it still blocks projectiles.

Your berserkers are multi-hits. They will only get blinded once as they shred through, as for GS5 is more likely to hit than not, you've stated the odds and numbers yourself, they are leaping for stealth or blasting, one is more likely to hit than the other but the latter remains they cannot always be evading when you aren't seeing them.

Don't deny your tools, the cooldown feels somewhat bloated yes but the skill itself is nothing short of what it always was until it just became a circle.

I dont want the skill to become once a year use kitten to everyone button. dagger storm is for that.they could much lower the duration for example, 7s is a bloody long time to deny projectilesand Im not denying counters. Im being relistic. and realistically, I will knock bad thief out of the field with gs5, but the good one will be at the edge, our even out of the field while blasting, and I wont do a thing to him, thats the point.gs4 is a multihit indeed, but half of its damage is the projectile ( blade ) and other half phantasm, realistically never hits 4 ticks. its 2-3 so even if 1 tick of daamge gets blinded its propably about 75% damage blocked.

Ur words "a good thief will" so a good thief shouldn't be able to avoid ur counters? Sounds like if hes good and employing said tactics then its deserved as if it didn't matter than what would the difference be between good and bad thieves be? That applies to all classes or should no? Being good at the class should and will result in players doing things that not good players would not to ensure more potential success

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@Zenix.6198 said:words

Tired Charr noisesI agree, a thief being able to stand in place for 7 seconds is the most broken ability in the game, even with the cooldown increase. More nerfs please.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:If u ever beat a thief in a engagements it means that they screwed up not that u were the better player

100%

@Shao.7236 said:Yeah it's a mistake to commit a fight, he should just be disengaging running around the FFA or map until I finally do a mistake myself.

100%

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To everybody saying "just cleave the field LUL" ....may I remind you, that a single heartseeker in that field turns that masterful "just cleave 4Head" strategy into a double edged sword, cause apparently everyone seems to either forget or actively ignore the fact that one of this skills functions is to stealth you.

Chaos storm it; Well it; MS it (staff lul); etc etc. And all the while the thief has the option to just stealth once and move out of your massive Cleave-Nuke.Also....can we please not pretend that a mesmer Mind-stab or a SB#4 from another thief is the big punish?!

This skill enables a defensive loop for a SA thief that shrinks down any window of opportunity for counterplay to a minimum.It has a 25CD for 7s duration....so an effective downtime of 18 seconds.If you stealth up for 6-9 seconds (which is hilariously easy)....you are down to a ~10s downtime.Throw in some shadowsteps, withdraws (that obviously also stealths), Shortbow evades/ports, Daggerstorms and what else have you, and this build becomes almost impossible to punish.

Now, I am willing to reserve further judgement until I see how the CD increase to 45s actually plays out....but this definitely has to be kept an eye on.Counterplay windows to this build is are basically non-existent for some specs, and abysmally slim for almost anybody else.

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@"Zenix.6198" said:To everybody saying "just cleave the field LUL" ....may I remind you, that a single heartseeker in that field turns that masterful "just cleave 4Head" strategy into a double edged sword, cause apparently everyone seems to either forget or actively ignore the fact that one of this skills functions is to stealth you.

Chaos storm it; Well it; MS it (staff lul); etc etc. And all the while the thief has the option to just stealth once and move out of your massive Cleave-Nuke.Also....can we please not pretend that a mesmer Mind-stab or a SB#4 from another thief is the big punish?!

This skill enables a defensive loop for a SA thief that shrinks down any window of opportunity for counterplay to a minimum.It has a 25CD for 7s duration....so an effective downtime of 18 seconds.If you stealth up for 6-9 seconds (which is hilariously easy)....you are down to a ~10s downtime.Throw in some shadowsteps, withdraws (that obviously also stealths), Shortbow evades/ports, Daggerstorms and what else have you, and this build becomes almost impossible to punish.

Now, I am willing to reserve further judgement until I see how the CD increase to 45s actually plays out....but this definitely has to be kept an eye on.Counterplay windows to this build is are basically non-existent for some specs, and abysmally slim for almost anybody else.

Heartseeker isn’t an evade. So you can generally use the time to AoE the field and kill them while they stack stealth. Or if you are seeing blast finishers you can just stand in the field to let them hit with one cluster bomb (reveals) then pressure them with cleave (as mentioned the pulsing blind doesn’t stop multi-hit abilities well). If you AoE enough that you force them off the Smoke field you cut down their stealth uptime.

The “impossible to punish” narrative is ironic when the Smoke Screen has a clearly visible area. Like Shadow Refuge, you can see where it is. Unlike Shadow Refuge it doesn’t heal and requires additional resources (combos) to actually provide stealth. If they can spend 10+ seconds stacking stealth they are literally only stacking stealth.

Is stealth a problem? Bring AoE reveal!

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@Zenix.6198 said:Now, I am willing to reserve further judgement until I see how the CD increase to 45s actually plays out....but this definitely has to be kept an eye on.Counterplay windows to this build is are basically non-existent for some specs, and abysmally slim for almost anybody else.

Let's say thieves still use smokescreen after this. What's next on the block?

@"saerni.2584" said:The “impossible to punish” narrative is ironic when the Smoke Screen has a clearly visible area. Like Shadow Refuge, you can see where it is. Unlike Shadow Refuge it doesn’t heal and requires additional resources (combos) to actually provide stealth. If they can spend 10+ seconds stacking stealth they are literally only stacking stealth.

Don't point that out. I want to see people go "Thief uncounterable, they should only be relegated to decap duty because shortbow" while also going "Thief only stacking stealth and not fighting me, I can't punish them." The latter is basically the Staff/Staff argument except the thief is losing point contest the whole time they do it.

@Zenix.6198 said:To everybody saying "just cleave the field LUL" ....may I remind you, that a single heartseeker in that field turns that masterful "just cleave 4Head" strategy into a double edged sword, cause apparently everyone seems to either forget or actively ignore the fact that one of this skills functions is to stealth you.

ITT someone who has never stood in black powder to force thief to reveal or shave their stealth dura

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@"Zenix.6198" said:To everybody saying "just cleave the field LUL" ....may I remind you, that a single heartseeker in that field turns that masterful "just cleave 4Head" strategy into a double edged sword, cause apparently everyone seems to either forget or actively ignore the fact that one of this skills functions is to stealth you.

Chaos storm it; Well it; MS it (staff lul); etc etc. And all the while the thief has the option to just stealth once and move out of your massive Cleave-Nuke.Also....can we please not pretend that a mesmer Mind-stab or a SB#4 from another thief is the big punish?!

This skill enables a defensive loop for a SA thief that shrinks down any window of opportunity for counterplay to a minimum.It has a 25CD for 7s duration....so an effective downtime of 18 seconds.If you stealth up for 6-9 seconds (which is hilariously easy)....you are down to a ~10s downtime.Throw in some shadowsteps, withdraws (that obviously also stealths), Shortbow evades/ports, Daggerstorms and what else have you, and this build becomes almost impossible to punish.

Now, I am willing to reserve further judgement until I see how the CD increase to 45s actually plays out....but this definitely has to be kept an eye on.Counterplay windows to this build is are basically non-existent for some specs, and abysmally slim for almost anybody else.

Ummm what? Lol yeah of course their gonna be HS'ing and u can still cleave them while their invisible stacking stealth and if they hit u reveals them lol win win.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Ummm what? Lol yeah of course their gonna be HS'ing and u can still cleave them while their invisible stacking stealth and if they hit u reveals them lol win win.

@saerni.2584 said:The “impossible to punish” narrative is ironic when the Smoke Screen has a clearly visible area. Like Shadow Refuge, you can see where it is. Unlike Shadow Refuge it doesn’t heal and requires additional resources (combos) to actually provide stealth. If they can spend 10+ seconds stacking stealth they are literally only stacking stealth.

Is stealth a problem? Bring AoE reveal!

S-Sure....that doesnt change the fact, they dont actually have to stay in the area, like they do with SR. SR actively reveals you when you exit it, before it ends. Smokescreen doesnt. If I (as the thief player here) see that my freaking smokefield is getting blasted by cleave....I, well, just get out. If I got 1 heartseeker out of it....thats already fair enough.Why are you people pretending that the thief has to commit to stack stealth for a good 5 seconds in the field and just ignore the incoming nukes?

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@Zenix.6198 said:

Ummm what? Lol yeah of course their gonna be HS'ing and u can still cleave them while their invisible stacking stealth and if they hit u reveals them lol win win.

@saerni.2584 said:The “impossible to punish” narrative is ironic when the Smoke Screen has a clearly visible area. Like Shadow Refuge, you can see where it is. Unlike Shadow Refuge it doesn’t heal and requires additional resources (combos) to actually provide stealth. If they can spend 10+ seconds stacking stealth they are literally only stacking stealth.

Is stealth a problem? Bring AoE reveal!

S-Sure....that doesnt change the fact, they dont actually have to stay in the area, like they do with SR. SR actively reveals you when you exit it, before it ends. Smokescreen doesnt. If I (as the thief player here) see that my freaking smokefield is getting blasted by cleave....I, well, just get out. If I got 1 heartseeker out of it....thats already fair enough.Why are you people pretending that the thief has to commit to stack stealth for a good 5 seconds in the field and just ignore the incoming nukes?

One Heartseeker isn’t 5 seconds of stealth.

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@saerni.2584 said:

Ummm what? Lol yeah of course their gonna be HS'ing and u can still cleave them while their invisible stacking stealth and if they hit u reveals them lol win win.

@saerni.2584 said:The “impossible to punish” narrative is ironic when the Smoke Screen has a clearly visible area. Like Shadow Refuge, you can see where it is. Unlike Shadow Refuge it doesn’t heal and requires additional resources (combos) to actually provide stealth. If they can spend 10+ seconds stacking stealth they are literally only stacking stealth.

Is stealth a problem? Bring AoE reveal!

S-Sure....that doesnt change the fact, they dont actually have to stay in the area, like they do with SR. SR actively reveals you when you exit it, before it ends. Smokescreen doesnt. If I (as the thief player here) see that my freaking smokefield is getting blasted by cleave....I, well, just get out. If I got 1 heartseeker out of it....thats already fair enough.Why are you people pretending that the thief has to commit to stack stealth for a good 5 seconds in the field and just ignore the incoming nukes?

One Heartseeker isn’t 5 seconds of stealth.

Can you stop pretending to missunderstand what I am saying?

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@Zenix.6198 said:

Ummm what? Lol yeah of course their gonna be HS'ing and u can still cleave them while their invisible stacking stealth and if they hit u reveals them lol win win.

@saerni.2584 said:The “impossible to punish” narrative is ironic when the Smoke Screen has a clearly visible area. Like Shadow Refuge, you can see where it is. Unlike Shadow Refuge it doesn’t heal and requires additional resources (combos) to actually provide stealth. If they can spend 10+ seconds stacking stealth they are literally only stacking stealth.

Is stealth a problem? Bring AoE reveal!

S-Sure....that doesnt change the fact, they dont actually have to stay in the area, like they do with SR. SR actively reveals you when you exit it, before it ends. Smokescreen doesnt. If I (as the thief player here) see that my freaking smokefield is getting blasted by cleave....I, well, just get out. If I got 1 heartseeker out of it....thats already fair enough.Why are you people pretending that the thief has to commit to stack stealth for a good 5 seconds in the field and just ignore the incoming nukes?

One Heartseeker isn’t 5 seconds of stealth.

Can you stop pretending to missunderstand what I am saying?

Ah, you meant stacking stealth in the field for 5 seconds.

By that time I’ve usually gotten attacked and had to get some range. I’m not sticking around for longer than three seconds if someone pressures the field.

I am using Cluster Bomb to stack in that case, so I can sort of stand outside the field to avoid cleave. But I don’t often get to use it “in combat” to stack stealth because at most I’m likely to need distance after breaking target than more stacks of stealth while being hit with AoE damage.

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@Zenix.6198 said:If I (as the thief player here) see that my freaking smokefield is getting blasted by cleave....I, well, just get out.

And you lose stealth duration. which means you either will pop back up or you will be going back to the stealth field to stack more.Both of those actions are predictable.

Why are you people pretending that the thief has to commit to stack stealth for a good 5 seconds in the field and just ignore the incoming nukes?

You have to commit to stack stealth. You will not auto reveal if you exit the field, yes, but dropping it at least guarantees you will be close by for 7 seconds, whether you are at the edge or not. All damage applied by the aoe will hurt you, and if you do not interact with the field in the next 7 seconds you will waste it.Nobody says that a thief is going to mindlessly stack stealth in the field while you nuke them. The action they will likely take in response to that nuke, though, shaves seconds off their stacking or puts them in a position where you can ruin their stacking entirely.

And even if you dont ruin it theyre losing the point

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