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Herald Needs Serious Teleportation Nerf


Trevor Boyer.6524

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@RUNICBLACK.7630Guard has the lowest health pool because they have a strongest utility set out of the three heavies that isn't put into a timely playstyle with either i-frames, instant access and AoE dominance. With that many Aegis that can often force or prevent anything from players, it entirely justifies why they went that way, as you should look also from either Elite specs point of view for Thief and Elementalist as well, imagine how awful it would be to deal with higher base health of these professions if it was a thing, to have them require some vitality balances that out.

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@Shao.7236 said:@"RUNICBLACK.7630"Guard has the lowest health pool because they have a strongest utility set out of the three heavies that isn't put into a timely playstyle with either i-frames, instant access and AoE dominance. With that many Aegis that can often force or prevent anything from players, it entirely justifies why they went that way, as you should look also from either Elite specs point of view for Thief and Elementalist as well, imagine how awful it would be to deal with higher base health of these professions if it was a thing, to have them require some vitality balances that out.

Hmm I'm not entirely certain why you are bothering here with your argument because I was just going with sarcasm and I wasn't arguing for or against any class's viability . To be blunt I have played every class(including their Elites) in most of the different game modes (PvE , PvP , and WvW) to varing degrees(To be honest with varying degrees of success) and every class has their strengths and weakness and every class has gone through their up and downs due various changes to mechanics and balance patches so for myself when so many players go with these blanket statements that class XYZ is over powered and its been always been buffed while "their" class is always getting nerfed I just find that laughable and have make fun of it (yes I have my bias but I try to be honest with myself on it.)Hopefully that is a little clearer where I was coming from.

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@Halikus.1406 said:Alright, can you give a rest already? Do you know how to ask anything but nerfs to other classes that's not yours? How about you learn to play properly and COUNTER instead of coming to the forums everytime class X or Y do something to you...Everyone is getting nerfs on the next patch, including revs mobility obviously, you would know that if you had read something else than ranger's notes :)

This is how a response looks by someone whos getting way too many advantages, and trying to weasel their way into pretending it aint so.

This is exactly what us mirages backed up in the corner said, but you know what, the nerfs were still coming because they don't want anyone to have freely so much power to just overrule itemization such as speed runes etc making no sense when classes also thief got chain teleports for days.

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Revs fine after the changes and needs love in some of the areas of renegade and certainty doesn't need nerfs to its tele's as that's part of shire's identity. Done the line if damage on them needs adjustments so be it but stop trying to have all classes ruined just cuz ur pissy about ur classes changes, most of them were justifiable.

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@Shao.7236 said:@ZDragon.3046@Master Ketsu.4569

The thing about Revenant is that after using a skill, energy still comes back unless there's upkeep in use. By doing that for Riposting Shadows after stunbreak there's at least minimum 15% as the stunbreak completes that will be available, that's plenty to kite with staff or retaliate with anything, Stability also can be included. For example, I would do something like Legend Swap + Quickness from SotM and more if getting hits + Riposting Shadows Stunbreak = Fast (Quickness), Accurate (Fury) and CC Immune (Stability) Unrelenting Assault, at the end of it there's more energy to spare because of the evade uptime.

The problem in regards to RS at 40 is that it's a huge overnerf compared to what other classes got. I've already explained before why Jade winds and ROTGD rarely are cast due to the energy cost being too close to 50. Rev gets most energy from swaps. Sure, you could run out of combat and be useless for a while to gain up 100 energy, but this is usually not the best play. A Rev that does nothing but cast Jade winds and wait is not a very good credit to the team, other abilities are capable of doing much more in far less time. Higher energy costs exponentially make a skill harder to justify, not linearly.

Increasing an energy cost from 30 to 40 is not the same as say increasing another classes cooldown on a 30s stunbreak to 40s ( which is what most other skills are getting ).

Increasing an energy cost from 30 to 40 is more like increasing a 30s stunbreak to a 120s stunbreak. It's an absolutely insane overnerf. They could make the skill return you 50 endurance instead of 25, and it would still be an overnerf. It's pure pandering to players who don't know how to fight Revs.

The worst part is it's not even the problem with Revs at all. The entire reason you are seeing the playstyle of Shiro/Glint where revs play defensively and then suddenly do an insane burst with 3-5 skills at once is 100% the fault of QUICKNESS. Quickness is broken as hell in PvP as it allows you to just run away and then go ham on someone with a ridiculous combo that changes skills that could previously be twitch-dodged into skills that hit people before latency catches up, leading to outcomes such as skills hitting before their animation even plays.

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@Master Ketsu.4569 said:With Empty Vessel gone, like said it encourages plays in between legends more for effectiveness which is the design on revenant, you know it. People don't use Jade Wind because it's not like they would try to use it and then swap to Glint because they prefer waiting to have an use for that Legend Swap stunbreak to begin with, this is why it's a great thing. Same for RotGD, people don't use it to buff their other legend, just the current which hurts the flow, afterall most of Revenant is extremely long and telegraphed to combine everything together

It can be hard to envision, I can see why you think so but the game is going to be vastly different from what we know, I think that nerf is well placed and doesn't change the flow, only reduces the recovery. Speaking from the well known experience that rarely is a Revenant perma CC'd, at least that never happens to me even when I was Mallyx/Glint.

The new stability on stunbreak does and will play a great role in securing energy spent, with enough energy to counter attack this is a great way to nerf rev without touching anything else that changes the profession altogether.

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@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

The thing about Revenant is that after using a skill, energy still comes back unless there's upkeep in use. By doing that for Riposting Shadows after stunbreak there's at least minimum 15% as the stunbreak completes that will be available, that's plenty to kite with staff or retaliate with anything, Stability also can be included. For example, I would do something like Legend Swap + Quickness from SotM and more if getting hits + Riposting Shadows Stunbreak = Fast (Quickness), Accurate (Fury) and CC Immune (Stability) Unrelenting Assault, at the end of it there's more energy to spare because of the evade uptime.

The problem in regards to RS at 40 is that it's a huge overnerf compared to what other classes got. I've already explained before why Jade winds and ROTGD rarely are cast due to the energy cost being too close to 50. Rev gets most energy from swaps. Sure, you could run out of combat and be useless for a while to gain up 100 energy, but this is usually not the best play. A Rev that does nothing but cast Jade winds and wait is not a very good credit to the team, other abilities are capable of doing much more in far less time. Higher energy costs
exponentially
make a skill harder to justify, not linearly.

Because anet is tired of you breaking every stun for basically free. you now need to learn how to balance and actually manage your energy in other words the skill cap on rev is going from meta minimal to to being some what standard on par with how every other profession has to manage their stun breaks. Gone will be the days of you rolling or walking off every single cc that comes your way. Revs certainly did get hard nerfs i wont argue that with you but its likely within good reason because right now the meta builds cannot be cced. They dont stop because there is always a break stun available via rolling out or legend swapping. Most Revs dont even use the herald break stun as a break stun anymore its just offensive long distance aoe blind because you dont need to save it.

Increasing an energy cost from 30 to 40 is not the same as say increasing another classes cooldown on a 30s stunbreak to 40s ( which is what most other skills are getting ).

Increasing an energy cost from 30 to 40 is more like increasing a 30s stunbreak to a 120s stunbreak. It's an absolutely insane overnerf. They could make the skill return you 50 endurance instead of 25, and it would still be an overnerf. It's pure pandering to players who don't know how to fight Revs.

Its not though the cost went up by 30% roughly that would be increasing a 30s stunbreak into a 40s stunbreak and your stunbreak is up every 10-20 seconds assuming you used it with minimal energy cost, legend swapped (where you will have another stun break option immediately on bar), survived 10 seconds, swapped again and used it immediately. And thats the worst case situation of some one stunning you consistently

You certainly are over exaggerating those numbers when the reality will be that the stunbreak is still a lower cooldown than most in the game which is why it has a energy cost in the first place.

The worst part is it's not even the problem with Revs at all. The entire reason you are seeing the playstyle of Shiro/Glint where revs play defensively and then suddenly do an insane burst with 3-5 skills at once is 100% the fault of QUICKNESS. Quickness is broken as hell in PvP as it allows you to just run away and then go ham on someone with a ridiculous combo that changes skills that could previously be twitch-dodged into skills that hit people before latency catches up, leading to outcomes such as skills hitting before their animation even plays.

Dont agree the quickness is fine whats not fine is you not being vulnerable to well timed cc attacks if cc effects dont stick to a profession the profession becomes super oppressive because there is nothing another player can do to say "STOP! LET ME BREAHT" You can have as much quickness as you want to but your quickness means nothing if cc is a threat to you because you cant attack while cc'ed which completely invalidates the point of quickness.

After the patch and your muscle memory of legend swapping stops breaking stuns you will either re roll to a new profession or learn how to manage you energy better and stop wasting gaze of darkness. Even if we need to drop the energy cost to say 35 for realistic balance purposes you should be preparing for this change.

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@Master Ketsu.4569 said:Again, I'm not talking about empty vessel.

I know you're not, but it still correlates to the fact that RS cost is too low and is abused with it, they don't want people to have 10 re-sustains thus why there's enough energy to kite the same but not enough for another RS, they want people to swap legends and stick to other skills than RS, they want people to mix and combine more than play legends individually.

Coming to me as well Mallyx was untouched because the upkeep has a cast time making charged mists hard and we also don't know if the Stability is at the stunbreak or when the stunbreak skill end, in that case it's the worst skill to use because Jalis can already have pre stability and Shiro has evade frames making it the best.

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