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Is WvW Roaming dead with new balance patch?


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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

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@Anput.4620 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

As opposed to before when they'd do the exact same thing, just using mobility skills/invulns instead of a mount

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

There is a pretty good reason that one of the go to things to kitten about when complaining about the warclaw is how it makes it harder to ninja unguarded towers

Is PvDing really something to strive for... Especially when "roaming"

You wouldn't think so but "people arrive before we can cat down the wall" seems to be a common complaint

Those that state that complaint don’t know where to place them.

How does cata placement correlate to the time to take the wall down? I'd love to hear you justify this one. News flash the cata does the same damage regardless of where you put it.

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@Gwaihir.1745 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

There is a pretty good reason that one of the go to things to kitten about when complaining about the warclaw is how it makes it harder to ninja unguarded towers

Is PvDing really something to strive for... Especially when "roaming"

You wouldn't think so but "people arrive before we can cat down the wall" seems to be a common complaint

Those that state that complaint don’t know where to place them.

How does cata placement correlate to the time to take the wall down? I'd love to hear you justify this one. News flash the cata does the same damage regardless of where you put it.

Really? Oh that’s right. You are correct.

And... please state where I said anything about the catas damage? I’ll wait.

But let me send you a news flash as well!

On almost every tower, there are spots outside of Watchtower range. Two catas will do some significant damage before sword pop. Do you need a lesson in this? You can hit me up in game for some training.

But I mean, you can walk up to one of those walls and show yourself for anyone on the map to see. I don’t mind. That certainly will reduce their response time.

Well good luck to you!

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@lodjur.1284 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

As opposed to before when they'd do the exact same thing, just using mobility skills/invulns instead of a mount

Except i also have those things so i can keep up while hitting them forcing an engagement, also allows you to slot in extra mobility to be able to chase poeple, many also play glassy builds and don't bother to swap while traveling.

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@Anput.4620 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

As opposed to before when they'd do the exact same thing, just using mobility skills/invulns instead of a mount

Except i also have those things so i can keep up while hitting them forcing an engagement, also allows you to slot in extra mobility to be able to chase poeple, many also play glassy builds and don't bother to swap while traveling.

You have skill 4 on your warclaw.

If they're "good" enough at running away to dodge it you just know they'd be fast enough to get away on foot, personally I haven't had anyone get away from me cause of mounts yet (that wouldn't also have gotten away earlier)

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@lodjur.1284 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

As opposed to before when they'd do the exact same thing, just using mobility skills/invulns instead of a mount

Except i also have those things so i can keep up while hitting them forcing an engagement, also allows you to slot in extra mobility to be able to chase poeple, many also play glassy builds and don't bother to swap while traveling.

You have skill 4 on your warclaw.

If they're "good" enough at running away to dodge it you just know they'd be fast enough to get away on foot, personally I haven't had anyone get away from me cause of mounts yet (that wouldn't also have gotten away earlier)

Necro players would disagree with you, ive seen many that could dodge a dismount, but getting away on foot vs a thief, ranger? Lel

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@lodjur.1284 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

As opposed to before when they'd do the exact same thing, just using mobility skills/invulns instead of a mount

Except i also have those things so i can keep up while hitting them forcing an engagement, also allows you to slot in extra mobility to be able to chase poeple, many also play glassy builds and don't bother to swap while traveling.

You have skill 4 on your warclaw.

If they're "good" enough at running away to dodge it you just know they'd be fast enough to get away on foot, personally I haven't had anyone get away from me cause of mounts yet (that wouldn't also have gotten away earlier)

I'm sure that necromancer would have been fast enough to run from that mesmer because they dodged a spear.

@"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:Also it's not really an "engagement" if the other person is trying to run away from you instead of fighting back.

Except it is, you either fight or flight, if you try to flee while you literally can't then you are just poor at making decissions, you think ill try to run from the thief on my necro? No im not stupid ill fight back. We are talking open map PvP, an engagement happens when one player attacks another and in any such game normally an engagent happens whenever 2 enemies meet, look at other RvR games, games with world PvP, BR's etc.

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@RedShark.9548 said:Necro players would disagree with you, ive seen many that could dodge a dismount, but getting away on foot vs a thief, ranger? Lel

@Anput.4620 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

As opposed to before when they'd do the exact same thing, just using mobility skills/invulns instead of a mount

Except i also have those things so i can keep up while hitting them forcing an engagement, also allows you to slot in extra mobility to be able to chase poeple, many also play glassy builds and don't bother to swap while traveling.

You have skill 4 on your warclaw.

If they're "good" enough at running away to dodge it you just know they'd be fast enough to get away on foot, personally I haven't had anyone get away from me cause of mounts yet (that wouldn't also have gotten away earlier)

I'm sure that necromancer would have been fast enough to run from that mesmer because they dodged a spear.

So what I am getting here is that the people who hate mounts only play high mobility builds and are a bit salty that they can't gank necros as easily anymore. Great reason to bring back longer travel times and less fights/hour.

@"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:Also it's not really an "engagement" if the other person is trying to run away from you instead of fighting back.

Except it is, you either fight or flight, if you try to flee while you literally can't then you are just poor at making decissions, you think ill try to run from the thief on my necro? No im not stupid ill fight back. We are talking open map PvP, an engagement happens when one player attacks another and in any such game normally an engagent happens whenever 2 enemies meet, look at other RvR games, games with world PvP, BR's etc.

Yet it's rarely an engaging fight, I too kill random solo players on weak builds (for stacks/parti if nothing else), but it's hardly why I play WvW. I play it for the engaging fights, which mounts increase the number of.

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@lodjur.1284 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:Necro players would disagree with you, ive seen many that could dodge a dismount, but getting away on foot vs a thief, ranger? Lel

@lodjur.1284 said:Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

As opposed to before when they'd do the exact same thing, just using mobility skills/invulns instead of a mount

Except i also have those things so i can keep up while hitting them forcing an engagement, also allows you to slot in extra mobility to be able to chase poeple, many also play glassy builds and don't bother to swap while traveling.

You have skill 4 on your warclaw.

If they're "good" enough at running away to dodge it you just know they'd be fast enough to get away on foot, personally I haven't had anyone get away from me cause of mounts yet (that wouldn't also have gotten away earlier)

I'm sure that necromancer would have been fast enough to run from that mesmer because they dodged a spear.

So what I am gathering is that the people who hate mounts only play high mobility builds and are a bit salty that they can't gank necros as easily anymore.

@"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:Also it's not really an "engagement" if the other person is trying to run away from you instead of fighting back.

Except it is, you either fight or flight, if you try to flee while you literally can't then you are just poor at making decissions, you think ill try to run from the thief on my necro? No im not stupid ill fight back. We are talking open map PvP, an engagement happens when one player attacks another and in any such game normally an engagent happens whenever 2 enemies meet, look at other RvR games, games with world PvP, BR's etc.

Yet it's rarely an engaging fight, I too kill random solo players on weak builds (for stacks/parti if nothing else), but it's hardly why I play WvW. I play it for the engaging fights, which mounts increase the number of.

I almost never gank, i am always on my own, i engage in PvP 1v1 or outnumbered but i mostly play alone, no squad, maybe 1 other person sometimes.

Mounts just increase ktrain, ive never seen it lead to fights, why do those poeple choose to play bad builds then? That's their own fault, especially how with templates you can swap builds with a single click now.

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@Anput.4620 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:Necro players would disagree with you, ive seen many that could dodge a dismount, but getting away on foot vs a thief, ranger? Lel

@lodjur.1284 said:Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

As opposed to before when they'd do the exact same thing, just using mobility skills/invulns instead of a mount

Except i also have those things so i can keep up while hitting them forcing an engagement, also allows you to slot in extra mobility to be able to chase poeple, many also play glassy builds and don't bother to swap while traveling.

You have skill 4 on your warclaw.

If they're "good" enough at running away to dodge it you just know they'd be fast enough to get away on foot, personally I haven't had anyone get away from me cause of mounts yet (that wouldn't also have gotten away earlier)

I'm sure that necromancer would have been fast enough to run from that mesmer because they dodged a spear.

So what I am gathering is that the people who hate mounts only play high mobility builds and are a bit salty that they can't gank necros as easily anymore.

@"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:Also it's not really an "engagement" if the other person is trying to run away from you instead of fighting back.

Except it is, you either fight or flight, if you try to flee while you literally can't then you are just poor at making decissions, you think ill try to run from the thief on my necro? No im not stupid ill fight back. We are talking open map PvP, an engagement happens when one player attacks another and in any such game normally an engagent happens whenever 2 enemies meet, look at other RvR games, games with world PvP, BR's etc.

Yet it's rarely an engaging fight, I too kill random solo players on weak builds (for stacks/parti if nothing else), but it's hardly why I play WvW. I play it for the engaging fights, which mounts increase the number of.

I almost never gank, i am always on my own, i engage in PvP 1v1 or outnumbered but i mostly play alone, no squad, maybe 1 other person sometimes.

You can def gank alone tho. Ganking is what took a very big hit with the release of mounts. Most players who would fight back to such a degree that it was remotely engaging still do (ie 1v1s with a bit better players or 1vX against a bit worse players)

Mounts just increase ktrain, ive never seen it lead to fights, why do those poeple choose to play bad builds then? That's their own fault, especially how with templates you can swap builds with a single click now.

Idk I always play in a group size of 2-4 on extremely rare occasions maybe 5-6, not been more even once. We instantly started finding more fights as the warclaw was added.

Also why people play bad builds I have no idea, but fighting them 1v1 isn't particularly exciting.

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Roaming died with the first expansion and its power creep. Which led to the current generation of "roamers" - bad players who just get carried hard.If anything this might put things back in order.Same applies for sPvP, just look at "the top 100". Complete clownfiesta.

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I don’t think roaming will die as an activity since a balance patch will just mean new fotm builds and classes being used for solo, duo or party roaming.

What is dying though, is the spirit of roaming. I don't know when exactly it started, but players these days are less and less willing to roam in enemy territory.

I posted about this change here last year

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91105/new-generation-roamers-lack-the-bravery-of-the-old-guards/p1

and the response seems to have attributed the death of the spirit of roaming to warclaws and watchtowers.

Too easily spotted by watchtowers and swarmed by defenders they say.Can’t disengage when outnumbered due to mounts they say.

Perhaps it is due to me playing necro that I can’t really empathise with their reasons. Easily spotted? That means more fights! Can’t disengage? Then fight to the death!

Whatever the case, I hope more new generation roamers pick up the bravery to roam in enemy owned territories.

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@lodjur.1284 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:Necro players would disagree with you, ive seen many that could dodge a dismount, but getting away on foot vs a thief, ranger? Lel

@lodjur.1284 said:Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

As opposed to before when they'd do the exact same thing, just using mobility skills/invulns instead of a mount

Except i also have those things so i can keep up while hitting them forcing an engagement, also allows you to slot in extra mobility to be able to chase poeple, many also play glassy builds and don't bother to swap while traveling.

You have skill 4 on your warclaw.

If they're "good" enough at running away to dodge it you just know they'd be fast enough to get away on foot, personally I haven't had anyone get away from me cause of mounts yet (that wouldn't also have gotten away earlier)

I'm sure that necromancer would have been fast enough to run from that mesmer because they dodged a spear.

So what I am gathering is that the people who hate mounts only play high mobility builds and are a bit salty that they can't gank necros as easily anymore.

@"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:Also it's not really an "engagement" if the other person is trying to run away from you instead of fighting back.

Except it is, you either fight or flight, if you try to flee while you literally can't then you are just poor at making decissions, you think ill try to run from the thief on my necro? No im not stupid ill fight back. We are talking open map PvP, an engagement happens when one player attacks another and in any such game normally an engagent happens whenever 2 enemies meet, look at other RvR games, games with world PvP, BR's etc.

Yet it's rarely an engaging fight, I too kill random solo players on weak builds (for stacks/parti if nothing else), but it's hardly why I play WvW. I play it for the engaging fights, which mounts increase the number of.

I almost never gank, i am always on my own, i engage in PvP 1v1 or outnumbered but i mostly play alone, no squad, maybe 1 other person sometimes.

You can def gank alone tho. Ganking is what took a very big hit with the release of mounts. Most players who would fight back to such a degree that it was remotely engaging still do (ie 1v1s with a bit better players or 1vX against a bit worse players)

Mounts just increase ktrain, ive never seen it lead to fights, why do those poeple choose to play bad builds then? That's their own fault, especially how with templates you can swap builds with a single click now.

Idk I always play in a group size of 2-4 on extremely rare occasions maybe 5-6, not been more even once. We instantly started finding more fights as the warclaw was added.

Also why people play bad builds I have no idea, but fighting them 1v1 isn't particularly exciting.

You can't gank alone, that's called engaging in PvP combat. Ganking is when you use overwhelming force, like in a MOBA where ganking is trying to +1 to create a Xv1 situation.

I recently got my friend in the game, comming from other similliar games that focus on their WvW mode and open world PvP and he also thinks the instawaypointing and mounts are ridiculous.

There is zero excuse when it takes 2 seconds to swap build and gear atm with templates.

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@Anput.4620 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:Necro players would disagree with you, ive seen many that could dodge a dismount, but getting away on foot vs a thief, ranger? Lel

@lodjur.1284 said:Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

As opposed to before when they'd do the exact same thing, just using mobility skills/invulns instead of a mount

Except i also have those things so i can keep up while hitting them forcing an engagement, also allows you to slot in extra mobility to be able to chase poeple, many also play glassy builds and don't bother to swap while traveling.

You have skill 4 on your warclaw.

If they're "good" enough at running away to dodge it you just know they'd be fast enough to get away on foot, personally I haven't had anyone get away from me cause of mounts yet (that wouldn't also have gotten away earlier)

I'm sure that necromancer would have been fast enough to run from that mesmer because they dodged a spear.

So what I am gathering is that the people who hate mounts only play high mobility builds and are a bit salty that they can't gank necros as easily anymore.

@"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:Also it's not really an "engagement" if the other person is trying to run away from you instead of fighting back.

Except it is, you either fight or flight, if you try to flee while you literally can't then you are just poor at making decissions, you think ill try to run from the thief on my necro? No im not stupid ill fight back. We are talking open map PvP, an engagement happens when one player attacks another and in any such game normally an engagent happens whenever 2 enemies meet, look at other RvR games, games with world PvP, BR's etc.

Yet it's rarely an engaging fight, I too kill random solo players on weak builds (for stacks/parti if nothing else), but it's hardly why I play WvW. I play it for the engaging fights, which mounts increase the number of.

I almost never gank, i am always on my own, i engage in PvP 1v1 or outnumbered but i mostly play alone, no squad, maybe 1 other person sometimes.

You can def gank alone tho. Ganking is what took a very big hit with the release of mounts. Most players who would fight back to such a degree that it was remotely engaging still do (ie 1v1s with a bit better players or 1vX against a bit worse players)

Mounts just increase ktrain, ive never seen it lead to fights, why do those poeple choose to play bad builds then? That's their own fault, especially how with templates you can swap builds with a single click now.

Idk I always play in a group size of 2-4 on extremely rare occasions maybe 5-6, not been more even once. We instantly started finding more fights as the warclaw was added.

Also why people play bad builds I have no idea, but fighting them 1v1 isn't particularly exciting.

You can't gank alone, that's called engaging in PvP combat. Ganking is when you use overwhelming force, like in a MOBA where ganking is trying to +1 to create a Xv1 situation.

Yet this isn't a moba, if this was sPvP I'd even be inclined to agree you.

But tbh any build that can (almost) 1 shot players from a position where the enemy is unprepared (ie from range, using stealth or with teleports) can gank by themselves, it's really just going out of your way to find unchallenging encounters and ending them very quickly.

I recently got my friend in the game, comming from other similliar games that focus on their WvW mode and open world PvP and he also thinks the instawaypointing and mounts are ridiculous.

My friends all love mounts and think they're the best thing to happen to WvW.

There is zero excuse when it takes 2 seconds to swap build and gear atm with templates.

Doesn't change the fact that people don't do it, meaning fighting one of them is fairly meaningless. There needs to be at least 2-3 before fighting those players is even remotely engaging

The people who benefit the most from warclaw is people who do like 2-4vX

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regarding warclaw, i would have no problem with it if it didnt have damage on engage, and worst of all mount stomp, around almost every zerg fight ppl will be hanging back on their warclaws rdy to run in and stomp the downs, ridiculous. (i myself have done it, because its an easy mechanic to abuse ) and why should you do a decent chunk of damage just for getting off your horse ( x by more than 1 dismount ), again ridiculous.. even so i still wish they'd never been introduced.. but i know that we are now stuck with them, so take away the damage and the stomp, as a compromise ( mounts should purely be for travel )

Just another reason in a long list of reasons why wvw population has declined. and no roaming is not dead with patch but it is already dying- aswell as every other part of wvw (are we going to keep saying wvw is fine when servers are doubled or tripled together and it still feels like less players are playing than pre-hot,

the only excuse for people saying wvw is fine are new players, or players that have only played after hot came along and linkings. everyone else is in denial.

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