Do you think GW2 gets enough instanced group content? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Do you think GW2 gets enough instanced group content?

Do we get new Fractals/Raids fast enough?

Do you think GW2 gets enough instanced group content? 78 votes

Yeah, it's fine
25%
Cerioth.7062Blaeys.3102Dante.1763Fleebag.1384Obtena.7952catalyst.1358Vayne.8563DeadTreeJig.6714Kumouta.4985Thornwolf.9721SkyCakeLight.3750Urud.4925Skorpis.4372LeonieAlexia.3750Antipode.7830Arcaniaxs.4519thepenmonster.3621Dante.1508WaRioRofthelight.8065scurvs.7013 20 votes
No, we need more
74%
maddoctor.2738Jahroots.6791SidewayS.3789Linken.6345Sublimatio.6981zealex.9410karmarius.6128Asum.4960Ayrilana.1396Randulf.7614Lonami.2987Shrugal.4513maxwelgm.4315mbhalo.1547Giotto.2607sokeenoppa.5384Amaranthe.3578Cyninja.2954Chay.7852Shadowmoon.7986 58 votes

Comments

  • xDudisx.5914xDudisx.5914 Member ✭✭✭

    We have been getting a lot of 10 man pve intanced group content. As for 5 man instanced group content we need more. When was the last 5 man instanced content added? 1 year+ ago?

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, we need more

    If we are talking about Fractals and Raids then the answer is obviously no because we haven't gotten any of those in ages. Now if you include Strike Missions then we are getting some instanced group content. Is it enough? Maybe? When we have all the Strike Missions and we can see how many are good and how many are bad then we can decide I guess.

  • I think we don't need more different instanced content. Raids, fractals, dungeons and strike missions. It's enough, but it would be nice if we had more of these: new fractals, another raid, more strike missions. Repeating the same content gets boring if there are no changes or "fresh water". That's why we want more fractals and raids.

    Master of garbage builds and being useless.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2020

    We have enough raids already. We have enough fractals on the difficult end already. We have more than enough of 10-man instanced content as it is. What the game needs is the midcore 5-man content. The niche that was once filled by dungeons.
    So, basically, we need more dungeons (since there's no point in creating completely new instance types for something we already have a name for)

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    We have enough raids already. We have enough fractals on the difficult end already. We have more than enough of 10-man instanced content as it is. What the game needs is the midcore 5-man content. The niche that was once filled by dungeons.
    So, basically, we need more dungeons (since there's no point in creating completely new instance types for something we already have a name for)

    Actually at this moment in time (and especially game's balance) i must disagree. I think 5 man content is pretty cancerous atm.
    Reason for it being "meta or gtfo" attitude. In 10 man group there is wiggle room for offmeta, yet still meaninful party members contributing in their own way (like a herald for example). In 5 man group it's firebrand, renegade, bannerslave warr, druid and maybe one free slot for dps...

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, we need more

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    We have enough raids already. We have enough fractals on the difficult end already. We have more than enough of 10-man instanced content as it is. What the game needs is the midcore 5-man content. The niche that was once filled by dungeons.
    So, basically, we need more dungeons (since there's no point in creating completely new instance types for something we already have a name for)

    So we have enough raids (7) but not enough 5 men midcore content (9 dungeons and fractals t1-3)? I dont know why but with my math no matter how you look at it we have way less raids than "midcore 5 men content".

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2020

    @ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    We have enough raids already. We have enough fractals on the difficult end already. We have more than enough of 10-man instanced content as it is. What the game needs is the midcore 5-man content. The niche that was once filled by dungeons.
    So, basically, we need more dungeons (since there's no point in creating completely new instance types for something we already have a name for)

    Actually at this moment in time (and especially game's balance) i must disagree. I think 5 man content is pretty cancerous atm.
    Reason for it being "meta or gtfo" attitude. In 10 man group there is wiggle room for offmeta, yet still meaninful party members contributing in their own way (like a herald for example). In 5 man group it's firebrand, renegade, bannerslave warr, druid and maybe one free slot for dps...

    That's why i said "midcore", not "hardcore".
    I mean, there were people that were going "meta or gtfo" in dungeons in their golden days, but they were a minority (albeit a very visible one). "All casual" lfg groups filled up almost instantly, and generally had no problem clearing any dungeons even when none of the group members had any idea what all this "meta" stuff was all about. And that's the type of instanced content that is needed now. Not some "stairs to raid content" noone is even interested in (because you either are already raiding or planning to raid and need no stairs, or you are not interested in going there in the first place), but rather a content that can stand on its own.

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:
    So we have enough raids (7) but not enough 5 men midcore content (9 dungeons and fractals t1-3)? I dont know why but with my math no matter how you look at it we have way less raids than "midcore 5 men content".

    Sure, but we never had a lot of players interested in that hardcore content. Do not try to compare the absolute numbers of instances as if both groups were of similar size. Not to mention, remember, that in the same time we've got all those 7 raid wings, we've got zero new dungeons.

    I understand, that raiders might want a new toy, preferably by yesterday, but that's not what the game needs now.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, we need more

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    We have enough raids already. We have enough fractals on the difficult end already. We have more than enough of 10-man instanced content as it is. What the game needs is the midcore 5-man content. The niche that was once filled by dungeons.
    So, basically, we need more dungeons (since there's no point in creating completely new instance types for something we already have a name for)

    Actually at this moment in time (and especially game's balance) i must disagree. I think 5 man content is pretty cancerous atm.
    Reason for it being "meta or gtfo" attitude. In 10 man group there is wiggle room for offmeta, yet still meaninful party members contributing in their own way (like a herald for example). In 5 man group it's firebrand, renegade, bannerslave warr, druid and maybe one free slot for dps...

    That's why i said "midcore", not "hardcore".
    I mean, there were people that were going "meta or gtfo" in dungeons in their golden days, but they were a minority (albeit a very visible one). "All casual" lfg groups filled up almost instantly, and generally had no problem clearing any dungeons even when none of the group members had any idea what all this "meta" stuff was all about. And that's the type of instanced content that is needed now. Not some "stairs to raid content" noone is even interested in (because you either are already raiding or planning to raid and need no stairs, or you are not interested in going there in the first place), but rather a content that can stand on its own.

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:
    So we have enough raids (7) but not enough 5 men midcore content (9 dungeons and fractals t1-3)? I dont know why but with my math no matter how you look at it we have way less raids than "midcore 5 men content".

    Sure, but we never had a lot of players interested in that hardcore content. Do not try to compare the absolute numbers of instances as if both groups were of similar size. Not to mention, remember, that in the same time we've got all those 7 raid wings, we've got zero new dungeons.

    I understand, that raiders might want a new toy, preferably by yesterday, but that's not what the game needs now.

    Sure as long as those dungeons are in same lvl as arah or aetherblade.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • No, we need more

    2018 and 2019 only had 1 raid and 1 fractal released each year. 2020 is looking to have only 1 fractal and no raids.

  • Amaranthe.3578Amaranthe.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, we need more

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    2018 and 2019 only had 1 raid and 1 fractal released each year. 2020 is looking to have only 1 fractal and no raids.

    When you put it like it that it makes it look like the game is dying :(

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, it's fine

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    2018 and 2019 only had 1 raid and 1 fractal released each year. 2020 is looking to have only 1 fractal and no raids.

    When you put it like it that it makes it look like the game is dying :(

    Or that Anet is realizing their raid implementation is alienating a significant enough portion of the playerbase to have a negative impact on revenues. Can think of lots of reasons ... but some make more sense than others.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • No, we need more

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    2018 and 2019 only had 1 raid and 1 fractal released each year. 2020 is looking to have only 1 fractal and no raids.

    When you put it like it that it makes it look like the game is dying :(

    Or that Anet is realizing their raid implementation is alienating a significant enough portion of the playerbase to have a negative impact on revenues. Can think of lots of reasons ... but some make more sense than others.

    Anet's giving them tools, and the player base itself is doing a damned good job at it.

    None of these pepegasuses who complain is free of guilt.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, it's fine

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    2018 and 2019 only had 1 raid and 1 fractal released each year. 2020 is looking to have only 1 fractal and no raids.

    When you put it like it that it makes it look like the game is dying :(

    Or that Anet is realizing their raid implementation is alienating a significant enough portion of the playerbase to have a negative impact on revenues. Can think of lots of reasons ... but some make more sense than others.

    Anet's giving them tools, and the player base itself is doing a damned good job at it.

    None of these pepegasuses who complain is free of guilt.

    I honestly have no clue what your point is.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • No, we need more

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    2018 and 2019 only had 1 raid and 1 fractal released each year. 2020 is looking to have only 1 fractal and no raids.

    When you put it like it that it makes it look like the game is dying :(

    Or that Anet is realizing their raid implementation is alienating a significant enough portion of the playerbase to have a negative impact on revenues. Can think of lots of reasons ... but some make more sense than others.

    Anet's giving them tools, and the player base itself is doing a damned good job at it.

    None of these pepegasuses who complain is free of guilt.

    I honestly have no clue what your point is.

    See, you at least said/asked "I have no idea-".

    if only some of these people could do the same, and ask before ragequitting "hard" content, etc. There's a certain self-fulfilling prophecy at work here.

  • Yeah, it's fine

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    2018 and 2019 only had 1 raid and 1 fractal released each year. 2020 is looking to have only 1 fractal and no raids.

    When you put it like it that it makes it look like the game is dying :(

    Though the more rational explanation is that raiding and fractals were never money-makers for Anet and they put their money and manpower in places that were.

    The Commander will end you.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, we need more

    It needs more instanced content, definitely.
    Or at least, they should give existing content multiple difficulty options.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2020
    No, we need more

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    2018 and 2019 only had 1 raid and 1 fractal released each year. 2020 is looking to have only 1 fractal and no raids.

    When you put it like it that it makes it look like the game is dying :(

    Though the more rational explanation is that raiding and fractals were never money-makers for Anet and they put their money and manpower in places that were.

    Which is why quarterly revenue plummeted by 25% in Q4 2019, to the lowest it's ever been since launch, after they shifted focus to casual LW/Saga only content rather than investing into expansions and repeatable endgame features, with hardcore players jumping ship en masse?

    Isn't that the quarter that released Build Templates, a system that was targeted at "hardcore" players? I doubt the casual playerbase would buy them en masse.

    With how insultingly overpriced they are (asking HC players to spend hundreds to thousands of Euros/Dollars to maintain their Arc build library), while lacking vital functionality, like actually being templates you save and load, neither did the already due to lack of content leaving Hardcore playerbase.

    It's in a sense a hardcore feature entirely catered to casuals, who maybe fork over 10-50 euros/dollars for a few slots on some of their characters, not understanding how terrible the value proposition is and having no comparison to superior and free features as what Arc was, or GW1 and other games natively had.
    The system is completely unusable for those of us who has 20 builds for most professions/characters, playing all the gamemodes in a hc capacity.
    It's just not affordable.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    2018 and 2019 only had 1 raid and 1 fractal released each year. 2020 is looking to have only 1 fractal and no raids.

    When you put it like it that it makes it look like the game is dying :(

    Though the more rational explanation is that raiding and fractals were never money-makers for Anet and they put their money and manpower in places that were.

    Which is why quarterly revenue plummeted by 25% in Q4 2019, to the lowest it's ever been since launch, after they shifted focus to casual LW/Saga only content rather than investing into expansions and repeatable endgame features, with hardcore players jumping ship en masse?

    Isn't that the quarter that released Build Templates, a system that was targeted at "hardcore" players? I doubt the casual playerbase would buy them en masse.

    With how insultingly overpriced they are (asking HC players to spend hundreds to thousands of Euros/Dollars to maintain their Arc build library), while lacking vital functionality, like actually being templates you save and load, neither did the already due to lack of content leaving Hardcore playerbase.

    No wonder the revenues plumetted. The "hardcore" playerbase didn't buy templates and the casual playerbase didn't care about them. Besides the templates there was nothing really interesting offered in the gemstore, so there was no reason to spend money that quarter. I guess developing the templates wasn't really worth it in the end.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you. Umbasa.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2020
    No, we need more

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    2018 and 2019 only had 1 raid and 1 fractal released each year. 2020 is looking to have only 1 fractal and no raids.

    When you put it like it that it makes it look like the game is dying :(

    Though the more rational explanation is that raiding and fractals were never money-makers for Anet and they put their money and manpower in places that were.

    Which is why quarterly revenue plummeted by 25% in Q4 2019, to the lowest it's ever been since launch, after they shifted focus to casual LW/Saga only content rather than investing into expansions and repeatable endgame features, with hardcore players jumping ship en masse?

    Isn't that the quarter that released Build Templates, a system that was targeted at "hardcore" players? I doubt the casual playerbase would buy them en masse.

    With how insultingly overpriced they are (asking HC players to spend hundreds to thousands of Euros/Dollars to maintain their Arc build library), while lacking vital functionality, like actually being templates you save and load, neither did the already due to lack of content leaving Hardcore playerbase.

    No wonder the revenues plumetted. The "hardcore" playerbase didn't buy templates and the casual playerbase didn't care about them. Besides the templates there was nothing really interesting offered in the gemstore, so there was no reason to spend money that quarter. I guess developing the templates wasn't really worth it in the end.

    Other than that the Gemstore kept marching on as usual with Outfits, Mountskins, weapon skins and such though, it's just a good chunk of the players usually buying them isn't around anymore after these missteps (lack of HC content, "template" fisaco etc.).

    The real casualty of Anet's templates was the far superior Arc Templates being forced out. So that was definitely not worth it.
    I know most people would have been fine paying for a native always up to date version by Anet, but they just completely dropped the ball both on design and even more so on monetization.
    They tried to milk HC players so hard with the feature, many of them just got up and left.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2020

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    2018 and 2019 only had 1 raid and 1 fractal released each year. 2020 is looking to have only 1 fractal and no raids.

    When you put it like it that it makes it look like the game is dying :(

    Though the more rational explanation is that raiding and fractals were never money-makers for Anet and they put their money and manpower in places that were.

    Which is why quarterly revenue plummeted by 25% in Q4 2019, to the lowest it's ever been since launch, after they shifted focus to casual LW/Saga only content rather than investing into expansions and repeatable endgame features, with hardcore players jumping ship en masse?

    Isn't that the quarter that released Build Templates, a system that was targeted at "hardcore" players? I doubt the casual playerbase would buy them en masse.

    With how insultingly overpriced they are (asking HC players to spend hundreds to thousands of Euros/Dollars to maintain their Arc build library), while lacking vital functionality, like actually being templates you save and load, neither did the already due to lack of content leaving Hardcore playerbase.

    No wonder the revenues plumetted. The "hardcore" playerbase didn't buy templates and the casual playerbase didn't care about them. Besides the templates there was nothing really interesting offered in the gemstore, so there was no reason to spend money that quarter. I guess developing the templates wasn't really worth it in the end.

    Other than that the Gemstore kept marching on as usual with Outfits, Mountskins, weapon skins and such though, it's just a good chunk of the players usually buying them isn't around anymore after these missteps (lack of HC content, "template" fisaco etc.).

    The real casualty of Anet's templates was the far superior Arc Templates being forced out. So that was definitely not worth it.
    I know most people would have been fine paying for a native always up to date version by Anet, but they just completely dropped the ball both on design and even more so on monetization.
    They tried to milk HC players so hard with the feature, many of them just got up and left.

    Yeah, just the usual stuff. Some RNG gated BLTC items. Nothing exciting for the casual playerbase to buy, so no reason to buy anything at all, just same old same old, some sales here and there of things they already have. Templates obviously haven't hit the mark like Anet wanted.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you. Umbasa.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, we need more

    Icebrood Saga felt the perfect place to bring in some EOTN dungeons. I know there was no expectation they would, but given the locations are already there, it seemed at least appropriate

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Manasa Devi.7958Manasa Devi.7958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2020

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Icebrood Saga felt the perfect place to bring in some EOTN dungeons. I know there was no expectation they would, but given the locations are already there, it seemed at least appropriate

    Darkrime Delves for example. Did I miss why mounts can't be used there? I can't help thinking they meant to do more with that.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2020
    No, we need more

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Icebrood Saga felt the perfect place to bring in some EOTN dungeons. I know there was no expectation they would, but given the locations are already there, it seemed at least appropriate

    Darkrime Delves for example. Did I miss why mounts can't be used there? I can't help thinking they meant to do more with that.

    Yes, they disabled mounts to reduce the clutter around what you see there as part of the story step since it is in the shared world. They felt having a load of people on mounts was somewhat immersion breaking given it was meant invoke a feeling of solemnity and sorrow, but obviously not a big enough step to instance it.

    It does feel like a missed opp everytime we see a dungeon like Darkrime just closed off with nothing more than a poi to mark it. It's been that way since core so it isn't unexpected, just feels like so much more could have been done

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Manasa Devi.7958Manasa Devi.7958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Icebrood Saga felt the perfect place to bring in some EOTN dungeons. I know there was no expectation they would, but given the locations are already there, it seemed at least appropriate

    Darkrime Delves for example. Did I miss why mounts can't be used there? I can't help thinking they meant to do more with that.

    Yes, they disabled mounts to reduce the clutter around what you see there as part of the story step since it is in the shared world. They felt having a load of people on mounts was somewhat immersion breaking given it was meant invoke a feeling of solemnity and sorrow, but obviously not a big enough step to instance it.

    Huh, that whole story step only invoked feelings of annoyance for me, more than anything in the game ever did. The meta was going on at the time, which I knew nothing about at that point, and I didn't have the mastery to protect against the blizzard. I had no clue what was going on and couldn't see a thing. After that I was so fed up with the game, I didn't log back on until a week before the next chapter was released. In light of that, disabling mounts to avoid clutter sounds like a bad joke.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2020
    No, we need more

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Icebrood Saga felt the perfect place to bring in some EOTN dungeons. I know there was no expectation they would, but given the locations are already there, it seemed at least appropriate

    Darkrime Delves for example. Did I miss why mounts can't be used there? I can't help thinking they meant to do more with that.

    Yes, they disabled mounts to reduce the clutter around what you see there as part of the story step since it is in the shared world. They felt having a load of people on mounts was somewhat immersion breaking given it was meant invoke a feeling of solemnity and sorrow, but obviously not a big enough step to instance it.

    Huh, that whole story step only invoked feelings of annoyance for me, more than anything in the game ever did. The meta was going on at the time, which I knew nothing about at that point, and I didn't have the mastery to protect against the blizzard. I had no clue what was going on and couldn't see a thing. After that I was so fed up with the game, I didn't log back on until a week before the next chapter was released. In light of that, disabling mounts to avoid clutter sounds like a bad joke.

    Their reasoning is fine to be honest. I don't think a lot of people are that emotionally invested in the story that way to be too bothered, but that isn't to say they shouldn't at least try to create the right tone even if many don't care/appreciate it. That's the writers doing their job correctly.

    I find it more amusing/annoying they put thought into removing visual clutter there, yet in actual fights, metas etc...they actually seem to worsen it... (blizzard case in point)

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • thepenmonster.3621thepenmonster.3621 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2020
    Yeah, it's fine

    @Asum.4960 said:
    quarterly revenue

    ... was down for all of NCsoft's games outside of Lineage. And apparently a number of other MMOs felt a similar pinch at the same time. It's a trend that happens to both old games like GW2 and is happening to PC MMOs in general. See signature for reason.

    So no. Anet tailoring the game to your tastes won't make them rich.

    The Commander will end you.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2020
    No, we need more

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:
    quarterly revenue

    ... was down for all of NCsoft's games outside of Lineage. And apparently a number of other MMOs felt a similar pinch at the same time. It's a trend that happens to both old games like GW2 and is happening to PC MMOs in general. See signature for reason.

    So no. Anet tailoring the game to your tastes won't make them rich.

    While it is a quarterly trend in general (except as you said for games like Lineage 2 actually managing to increase revenue by 20% in Q4), GW2 has been pretty stable over the years.
    From 86 Billion KRW in 2014, increasing to 101 in 2015 (which was the best post release hype year for GW2 with HoT, releasing as more hardcore expansion and introducing content like Raids) to 77 in 2016, to 83 in 2017 (launch year of PoF) to 80 in 2018, it's quite the drop to 59 billion KRW in 2019.

    It's not just a 25% quarterly drop in the 4Q of 2019 from Q3, but also marks a 26% drop in yearly revenue (and a 42% drop since HoT days).

    Meanwhile Blade and Soul for example is just dropping back down to (but still above) revenue levels of 2014, after experiencing a massive spike the last few years with the EU/US launch of the game, getting boosted by having acquired a massive new market.

    So while other games are dropping in revenue as well (especially Aion), B&S for example still made more revenue in 2019 than 2014, while GW2 suddenly dropped this year, and being 31% lower in 2019 revenue than 2014, for comparison.

    I'm not saying more substantial or hardcore content would make Anet "rich" (besides, 45 million €/48 million $ a year is still alright), but clearly the short lived LW content stream of 2019 as a whole, without expansion or other long term engaging (hardcore) content on the horizon, hasn't been working well.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • thepenmonster.3621thepenmonster.3621 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2020
    Yeah, it's fine

    without expansion or other long term engaging (hardcore) content

    One last try...

    There's a wider trending downwards that is beyond anyone's ability to change. People play games on their phones in 2020. Also GW2 is an "old" game. A loss of players and revenue was inevitable, will continue for a while, and it will never be 2014 for them ever again. Adding more to game modes that were never popular to begin with won't change that.

    Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids and the like so they can justify putting more manpower into it, so it's obvious they are more on your side of things than mine (their efforts are better spent elsewhere IMO). They want that side of the game played more. You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.

    I don't think it'll work solely because.... Pink Tap-Dancing Elephant in the Room time... it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them. Only time will tell if strikes will make hardcore modes appealing, because hardcore players sure ain't.

    The Commander will end you.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2020
    No, we need more

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids
    They want that side of the game played more.

    If they truly wanted raids be played more, they would implement systems that truly has a chance to increase the player count:
    monetary and item incentives and multiple difficulties.
    The way I see it, Strike missions are just an outlet for those with interesting raid boss ideas, without Anet having to bother creating whole raids.
    They are a replacement for raids.

    You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.

    I don't think it doesn't need anymore waiting to see that strikes don't come close to result in an step-ladder for raids.
    Also, Anet had more then enough time to realize the main part of their audience is not interested in higher difficulties.
    Strikes are too difficult and performance-driven, so people do not like them. They aren't even rewarding enough to get all that many people try them.
    Why should people, who obviously have no interest in getting better, bother with training for difficulties over their ability, when they can play easier, more rewarding parts of the game?

    [...]it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them.

    The main problems are the difficulty and the rewards.
    Those elitist people that many don't want to play with are a direct result of the difficulty, not the root of the problem.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2020
    No, we need more

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    One last try...

    Indeed.

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    There's a wider trending downwards that is beyond anyone's ability to change. People play games on their phones in 2020. Also GW2 is an "old" game. A loss of players and revenue was inevitable, will continue for a while, and it will never be 2014 for them ever again. Adding more to game modes that were never popular to begin with won't change that.

    Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids and the like so they can justify putting more manpower into it, so it's obvious they are more on your side of things than mine (their efforts are better spent elsewhere IMO). They want that side of the game played more. You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.

    I don't think it'll work solely because.... Pink Tap-Dancing Elephant in the Room time... it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them. Only time will tell if strikes will make hardcore modes appealing, because hardcore players sure ain't.

    While there is an unfortunate wider trend, it's both one GW2 has been defying for years now, as well as the drop for 2019 going far beyond that overall trend.

    Raids at it's peak according to efficiency with VG was cleared by 30% of the player base, which only started to drastically dip after release schedules for the content slowed down significantly, in addition to coinciding with a disappointingly easy Wing 4 release, after that increased wait time - driving away a lot of disappointed hardcore players.
    Not only was that not a niche audience, it was also a highly engaged one. Both in and out of game.

    And ofc they want that side of the game to be played more, because it's an area of the game where communities (static raid groups) and guilds are formed, and which can be repeated for years on end, which is what combined keeps players engaged (and interacting with the gemstore) longterm, over the log in every 3-4 months and play for a week, or even just 2h, free single player content that LW provides, after which players check out again without getting much or consistent Gemstore engagement, let alone creating buzz around the game from outside engagement.

    The best way to enjoy content like Raiding is and has always been forming/joining a static of like minded people.
    Pugging is a last resort for coordinated group content, and especially unsuited for beginners due to clashing expectations and mentalities.
    Hardcore players aren't keeping anyone away from hardcore content as much as casuals are barring themselves from it. It's just a lot of casual players are used to being able to do whatever and still get free instant gratification across most of the rest of the game, which clashes quite hard when they then try to join a organised team environment tackling semi-difficult content with certain baseline expectations, making it needlessly hard on themselves, as well as the people they are joining unprepared.
    There is a reason training groups exist, and everybody is able to from their own group according to their own skill level and expectations, socially and in terms of what amount of content progression they expect.

    Lastly, I'm pretty confident that if Anet had released another HoT like feature rich expansion with a more endgame focus in late 2019, the buzz leading up to that as well as the sales number from that would have most likely lead to revenue of the levels of 2014 again.
    It's not like 2016, 17 and 18 weren't on that level.
    It's just that they really dropped the ball in 2019, regardless of any trends working against them, which is reflected in a 23% drop in revenue from the previously lowest year for GW2 in 2016, which was suffering from the content draught after HoT.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2020
    No, we need more

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    No wonder the revenues plumetted. The "hardcore" playerbase didn't buy templates and the casual playerbase didn't care about them. Besides the templates there was nothing really interesting offered in the gemstore, so there was no reason to spend money that quarter. I guess developing the templates wasn't really worth it in the end.

    Given how the "hardcore" playerbase already had build templates to begin with, I don't think the templates were created for them anyway. Removing the already existing, free, feature rich, version, to replace it with a heavily monetized feature lacking version didn't help.

    Edit: They hired Benjamin Arnold back, he was responsible for instanced content so there is hope that we are gonna get more of it.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    No wonder the revenues plumetted. The "hardcore" playerbase didn't buy templates and the casual playerbase didn't care about them. Besides the templates there was nothing really interesting offered in the gemstore, so there was no reason to spend money that quarter. I guess developing the templates wasn't really worth it in the end.

    Given how the "hardcore" playerbase already had build templates to begin with, I don't think the templates were created for them anyway. Removing the already existing, free, feature rich, version, to replace it with a heavily monetized feature lacking version didn't help.

    Edit: They hired Benjamin Arnold back, he was responsible for instanced content so there is hope that we are gonna get more of it.

    Yeah, that's what I mean. The templates weren't created for anyone in the end.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you. Umbasa.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2020
    Yeah, it's fine

    I want more instanced group content, But I want it to be good. I've done raiding (The first three wings) And to me they seemed less..... well fun? I don't know the raiding here doesn't feel as good as elsewhere.. I think its because of the progression of characters being tilted where as in other games raids/trials/dungeons/ect are tied directly to you becoming stronger. (ESO dungeons are fun as hell, so are trials.) And WoW is king daddy at raiding and I've done both within both and to be honest It has something Guild wars 2 doesnt, which is progression.

    You get cool gear, with awesome passives and cool effects ONTOP of your class skills and passives. So you get something cool for doing it where as in here you get what? Some skins? Legendary armor which honestly can be obtained elsewhere? Raids have NOTHING worth obtaining and thus to most players have no reason to be done or to deal with the community within them. The game was not designed FOR that content and the way the game plays goes AGAINST that content, There is no need to progress and there is no reason to do the raids because they have nothing of value outside of what you can get elsewhere. Its also less rewarding that open world maps and meta's, hell Id argue WvW and PvP have more rewards to be had than Raids do.(Not by much.)

    Most players don't do things for fun like I do, I like doing that type of content. But I also like having a goal to chase and with raids in guild wars 2 I just don't feel it.... I never have unfortunately. Id rather them spend resources elswhere such as E-specs or new stuff for our classes, or a new class or new races because for "Me" that is content I'd be interested in based on how the game plays and works. (Fashion wars is end-game, a new race adds to the endgame.) A new class changes how you play the game, as do E-specs. Id rather them do that then the same old, same old meh another raid that went on in the past.

    (I do support raids, I just feel they need to give them more to offer and make them more dynamic and themed as well as interesting. Which right now they seem like copy past, Dhuum is LITERALLY argus the unmaker from WoW Legion, he has virutally the same mechanics as Argus and they even look similar. Came out around the same time So I did Mythic Argus~ Means I've fought dhuum once and got better rewards for doing so.)

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2020
    No, we need more

    We do need to bring back dungeons tho. Dead content. Not only for beginners but for vets too. Give meaningful rewards and challenging mechanics and it'll be good. Fractals are like dungeons i guess but still having dungeons with different kinds of mechanics and rewards wouldn't be bad for sure.

    BuffThiefPlz?!

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭
    edited March 4, 2020

    I think its alright .

    They should make a census as an expirement :
    If 5.000 different accounts play in Raids in a month , then a second Raid will be created .
    If 8.000 => 1x Raid + 1x Fractal.
    If only 2500 play this month , then they will have to wait another month to reach the 5.000 goal
    etc

    If people use their alts and they dont like invinting less skilled players , its fine . It will take them some extra time to reach that goal .Or they can buy extra coppies .
    Accounts that had Raid done once per month (got invited by luck-werent asked/forced to link KillProof (KL-PL)) and are wilingly to Dungeon + Fractals on their own later , contribute to that goal regadles if they did x4 the Raids or only x1 in that month .

    edit:Maybe implanting a ''Like'' Button towards the Raid Leaders (for some cookies rewards)

    Be Right Back My Lord - Desolation

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 4, 2020
    No, we need more

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:
    I think its alright .

    lets just not release anything in open world for 1-2 years. thats what happens to raids and fractals currently. and open world players think 3month for an episode is long. 1year for w7 which was cleared in 2h.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭
    Yeah, it's fine

    Way too much, need more open world core tyria.

  • Sykper.6583Sykper.6583 Member ✭✭✭
    No, we need more

    Not even remotely close.

    Practically speaking if they wanted to encourage group play (and by proxy make partying easier, eventually helping out other instance content) there should have been a group instance for each LS map since Season 3.

    Things like strikes added for Frost Saga should have happened ages ago.

  • CptAurellian.9537CptAurellian.9537 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, we need more

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    2018 and 2019 only had 1 raid and 1 fractal released each year. 2020 is looking to have only 1 fractal and no raids.

    When you put it like it that it makes it look like the game is dying :(

    For quite a few people, that already happened quite a while ago. I'm still curious whether their obvious casual-only focus will pay off or whether the tendency from last quarter's numbers become the new normal.

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